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Because science, my dear Sir John, requires hypothesizing, theorizing, and analyzing no matter how early or late. That and rants, anger, arguments, and frothing of the mouth.Why are we determining every character's worth and role in the overall competitive top-of-the-line meta-game when everyone still sucks at the game=???
I mean c'mon guys, this isn't the Mii Swordfighter we're talking about.
Or vague ones.
Underrepped, for the most part.
Well to be fair, Ness's f-air has always been like that, as far as I know, it's just now Ness is good
Yeah, it's kind of weird since he's a solid character who was "established" early on as solid, but that's it. He just disappeared.
Scientific theories and formulas take years to formulate, not months.Because science, my dear Sir John, requires hypothesizing, theorizing, and analyzing no matter how early or late. That and rants, anger, arguments, and frothing of the mouth.
Marth started out at 7th spot, went up to 6, went back to 7, then back to 6, 6 again, then to 5, back to 7, and finally back to 5.
Pretty sure this is the first time his Fair combos into itself so reliably.
Bull science is all on the whim. Get hit on the head with an apple? boom gravity.Scientific theories and formulas take years to formulate, not months.
Similarly, smash meta-games takes years to develop.
People who come in last at this years' APEX at Brawl would beat people who came in first at Brawl tournaments in the summer of 2008 (if you go back and face them at that time).
Anyone who realistically enters a Melee tournament today with competitive knowledge would destroy Ken in 2002.
Smash 64... well... it would be Isai beating himself!
It really is that simple. Our understanding of the game is so minimal in regards to character viability it is straight up laughable to think of starting the creation of such assumptions as to where most of the cast lies in regards to match ups, viability, and tier lists.
And how long did it take Newton to make those full theories and expand upon them with the exact physical properties to the functionality of gravity=???
Is there a video of this?
Well... I guess that makes us amateur scientists.Scientific theories and formulas take years to formulate, not months.
Similarly, smash meta-games takes years to develop.
People who come in last at this years' APEX at Brawl would beat people who came in first at Brawl tournaments in the summer of 2008 (if you go back and face them at that time).
Anyone who realistically enters a Melee tournament today with competitive knowledge would destroy Ken in 2002.
Smash 64... well... it would be Isai beating a younger version of himself!
It really is that simple. Our understanding of the game is so minimal in regards to character viability it is straight up laughable to think of starting the creation of such assumptions as to where most of the cast lies in regards to match ups, viability, and tier lists.
Hmm... I'm going to ask why not, but that's mostly because when I play a new SSB game, I end up playing as every character because of trophies and such, so it makes me explore other characters. Even if a character was horrible in previous games or whatever, I would at least try them out to see what's changed, but that's just me.
hey bro making theroies just takes a few seconds its basically how we judge peoples feeling when we talk to them. Getting them proven is what takes long.
Any theory can be made in a few seconds. It's another thing all together for a GOOD theory. You need something to stand out for the theory to have any credibility.
Because I'm a beefcake playing a bara dragon.
Eh, that's functional and makes sense.
all you need is proof something that can be easily obtained or not
Johnknight1
lol im just being nitpicky but yeah nothing in this thread is 100% and some people tend to not notice that.
Looks like someone needs to train with Bruce Lee.
Honestly curious; I know he's pretty solid (and I've heard a lot of stuff about how he's amazing with customs) but what does his MU spread look like? (Obviously not fully fleshed out yet, but a general idea would be nice)
@
san.
's and everyone is gonna have to tell you that. I'm not that familiar with Ike in terms of competition and I generally don't do stuff like that. I just point out characters not being mentioned and asking questions about them. Oh, and Falco rants. Definitely that too.
Well, now have ZeRo play Lucina and have M2K get wrecked as the other 40+ characters and we might have a little something to go off of.
Nah I got you, but man, some people though are dead set on their opinions being right forever.@
Just gotta go out and say it. I really apreciate ur effort to put a little cleverness each time u post always look forrward to reading weather i agree or dissagree with the statement.Looks like someone needs to train with Bruce Lee.
Is Marth more like a poker now? Like a fighter who harasses, stays out of your range, and lands good reads? If so, then he's more like ice... Well, hail and snow since he'd be an annoying character like that. Well, ice is water frozen and less fluid; it's more rigid and jerky.
Johnknight1
lol even smashboards cannot excape the evil corruption known as the internet.
Yeah, I was asking as more of a general question.@
I was surprised by this as well, considering he placed very far using a then perceived bottom tier character. I thought Ryuga's performance alone should have at least inspired new players to pick up Ike, with the update being a huge plus to that.
That's just because of online lag right? Seems kind of weird to me that tournaments results matter but ladder results don't. If two players of equal skill play two different characters and one gets consistently bodied what does it matter if it happens at a tournament or not?
internet speed can fluctuate on even the most stable of connections peer to peer. when online it can cause bad habits and less risk taking with the fear in mind that a lag spike may get you punished or worse lose the stock so some players who are really good at off stage killing may not make the choice to go offstage at all simply because there is a potential chance of losing because of a uncontrolable involvment in online matches.
Purely due to online lag. I can say from experience that playing offline vs online is like night and day, even when there seemingly isn't any lag.
Yes. Online lag can detract heavily from serious matches as players from both sides become more vulnerable to making errors in their respective plays. I think some characters may be hit harder from it than others, and I believe Ike is one of them. Online battles can be good for one thing, though, and that is acquiring match-up knowledge. Offline is the best way for this, of course.
Yeah, and I think someone mentioned it before, but there are amazing players out there who nobody knows. This becomes an issue because we end up accounting only tournament players, but not these unknowns. People just meet online and end up facing all sorts of players. So, this would be an uncontrolled variable while tournament players are controlled variables since nobody knows who "Dan" from that For Glory match last night is and how to contact him, but everyone knows M2K or Ken.
Lucina doesn't really bring anything to the table that fixes their problems, at least as far as we understand the two right now. She has little situational things that are better sometimes like her usmash, but she's still the clear loser overall.
Shaya already covered mobility, but his range isn't exactly exceptional in SSB4 either. He has a disjoint advantage over most of the cast. Off the top of my head his range is challenged or beaten by Shulk, Ike, ZSS, Palutena, Bowser, D3, Bowser Jr, DK, Ganondorf, Samus, Pit, Dark Pit, and Charizard. Then you have characters like Sheik, Mac, and Falcon that outmaneuver him (and may beat his range outright on select attacks), along with any projectiles he may have to fight through. I would describe his effective reach (mobility + range) as only slightly above average.
how did dk not make it into your thoughts.
D-tilt was nerfed pretty massively, and while F-tilt sorta replaces it, it's nowhere nearly as good as old D-tilt. U-tilt has even less of a horizontal hitbox in this game. B-air while decent also isn't safe on block this game. Also G&W lost the majority of his lingering hitboxes on his Smashes, most notably F-smash for some insane reason. And he can't slowfall D-air in this game anymore and it has about twice as much landing lag.