Character Archetypes in Smash Bros.

[Deleted member]

Takamaru can indeed shoot out fireballs, but in Mysterious Murasame Castle they basically acted as an upgraded shuriken. Specifically the fireballs increased the power of his ranged attacks, but had more limited range. If I had to make a reference to the fireball technique, I'd imagine something along the lines of a forward smash and forward throw. In comparison, I'd reference the other upgrade, the windmill sword, as his down smash and up special.

I really need to get around to playing that game, all those attacks sound so cool.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Of course this is all speculation, so it might turn out a little different then expected.

I remember speculating on how Pit would work and making references to the Protective Crystal, Fire Arrow, Angel's Feather, and Mallet as possible things for moves. I hardly got any of that, and instead got a character that utilizes a bow that also functions as a duel wielding blade and uses the Three Sacred Treasures for his special attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

Of course this is all speculation, so it might turn out a little different then expected.

I remember speculating on how Pit would work and making references to the Protective Crystal, Fire Arrow, Angel's Feather, and Mallet as possible things for moves. I hardly got any of that, and instead got a character that utilizes a bow that also functions as a duel wielding blade and uses the Three Sacred Treasures for his special attacks.

You what would be a cool thread? I've been thinking about making a "Smashboards Makes a Fighting Game" Thread. It kinda expands on this thread's idea, where we look at the archetypes, but we apply it into something constructive, and try to think of how we would make a 2D Nintendo Arcade Fighter. We basically look at the different characters and build Arcade-like move sets for them, explain how they would play, their strategy, and if everyone agrees. We could build and program them. We could run it on the MUGEN engine, that game is lacking on Nintendo characters. I for one wouldn't mind drawing up sprites and stuff for it, I'm sure there are other people on here with artistic talent and drawing tablets who could do the same.

After all, it's not uncommon for gaming communities to work together to make their own games. /v/ made their own visual novel, and /vp/ is working on their own Pokemon Game...

 

[Deleted member]

Just Copy/Pasting the Little Mac moveset over here so it doesn't get lost in the sea that is the Roster Discussion thread.

So I was actually very excited to write this, Little Mac was a character I never gave much thought to, aside from a couple moves here and there, however, I suddenly had a flash of inspiration that built this character in a way that is just fantastic and simply proves how much potential he has.

Now, I've heard several times that Mac suffers from not having much variety in regard to movesets as he's very limited in what he can do, after all he can only throw punches. However, I disagree. As a Martial Artist, I understand just how profound the art of Boxing really it, sure, on the surface it just looks like dudes throwing punches at each other, but underneath that simplicity lies possibly on of the most complex Martial Arts there is, and I hope to express that when making this character.

We can see other Boxers in fighting games with characters such as Balrog and Dudley, and you can see a lot of diversity in they style, despite the fact that they only throw punches. So with that, on to Mac's moves.

Little Mac's Moveset:



[COLLAPSE="POW Meter"]
First and foremost, his "gimmick" so this actually dawned on me today, and it's really what makes his moveset all in all.

Little Mac has a POW Meter right above his Icon on the bottom, this activates whenever he uses his specials. Essentially, by holding down his specials you activate the meter which makes a bar quickly fluctuate between full power and weak. When releasing the button, Little Mac will do that move with the amount of power indicated on the bar. There are 3 levels of power, 3 being very powerful and very satisfying. However, let me specify, that landing a Level 3 special is no easy task, it takes precise timing as the Bar only stays on POW for a very short time. Chances are you'll be landing Level 2s most of the time.

In short, it behaves a lot like Makoto's Drive "Impact" for those who have played BlazBlue, here's a video where you can see it in action in case you haven't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWOS0o91Kr8[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="B=Ultimate Boxing Technique: Dempsey Roll!!"]
Tap B, and Little Mac will quickly dodge as you see him do in his games:

Now, if you repeatedly tap B, Little Mac will weave back and forth dodging hits and building momentum. during this, his upper-body is invulnerable (he can still get hit with sweeps though), once you stop pressing B, Little Mac will unleash a Mean Hook Punch, followed by a flurry of consecutive Hook Punches. Now the punches, even the first one, have great hitstun, but NO knockback (only the final one does knockback). Doing the first phase longer will allow Mac to build more momentum and thus allow him to hit with more strikes when he unleashes the technique. In addition, the meter above Mac's icon activates when "charging" this move, unleashing it at full meter not only increases the damage of the punches, but also makes Mac unleash a final Uppercut at the end of the flurry, this is a Killing move at full POW. This move is very close range, as they're hook punches, you must be right in your opponent's face to execute it properly.

If you've ever read Hajime no Ippo, you've seen this move, if you haven't here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5sdJSPL1Vs
Now, contrary to what you may think, this move didn't actually debut in this manga, it is in fact a real Boxing Technique first used by Legendary Boxing Champion Jack Dempsey, you can see him use it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE= "Side B=CROSS-COUNTER!!"]
Really, I mean how could I NOT have this in here, this is a classic Boxing move and a great one for Mac. Now this is the only move Mac cannot charge, as it IS a reactive move after all. This move is a counter, without the Parry. Essentially when you use this, Mac will quickstep right up to his opponent (it doesn't have much range so you better be real close), and deliver a cross punch (the arm in back), now here's the catch, if Mac gets hit when using this move, his Cross Punch will hit his opponent with 2x the damage and knockback he was hit with. Now, Mac will still take the damage and knockback from this move, so it's not a true counter. However, when hit, his knockback will be cut by 25%, giving him a slight edge in just who might die first during critical situations. The move has slight delay at the beginning signalling Mac's about to use it, on a whiff (if you miss-predict) , Mac's will still attack, as it's not a true counter, but he will only do around 5% damage and 0 knockback leaving you wide open to counter-attack. Oh, and obviously this move is useless against Long Range attacks, as he still gets hit. Another Dangerous Killing move.

Here you can see good Ol' Dudley use this move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76MNVXkzHSg

[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Up B= Let's See Ya Grit Those Teeth: FINISHING UPPERCUT!!"]
This is Ryu's Shoryuken by the Book, I mean there's no way around it, this is meant to be an anti-air by and large. Now this is how it works:

This technique comes up real fast, thus why it's an anti-air, opponent's will be hit back in a similar fashion as in SF, now it can also be used on ground opponents, and this is where the move changes. It has two hitboxes, one at the beginning and one at the end. Against aerial opponents, it's just a good AA, and will deal decent damage and knockback, but won't really earn you a KO, unless they're at very high damage. However, when hitting a grounded opponent, this move rocks! Here's the thing though, like Mac's other specials, this move is also delayable, holding down B will allow you to once again activate Mac's POW meter, giving you three levels of power and range, two of which correspond with Ryu's 3 different Shoryukens (Weak and Medium), however, if you get a level 3 Finishing Uppercut, well... I guess you know what happens then. Each successive level gives Mac increased range as well as power, meaning really much coordinate your timing to achieve what you want. This applies to recover as well, as Level 3 has the best range.
[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Down B= Grand Slam: Knock Out PUNCH!!"]
Little Mac's ultimate technique. It functions differently in Air than it does on the Ground. Once again, this move is also delay-able and POWable. Each one giving you more Power. In this move, the range stays the same. Mac will simply glide across the ground (a set range, about half of Fox's illusion) very quickly and hit his opponent with a Powerful Punch. The higher the level the stronger the Punch, Level 3 being very painful (as powerful as the Falcon Punch). In mid-air, Mac doesn't dash at all, he stays in place and delivers a downward Hook Punch, one that hits his opponents downward at a diagonal angle, making for a very good Spike Move if used at highest level.

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Final Smash= I'll Never Give Up: The Underdog's Comeback!!"]

This is Mac's comeback move, basically his final gambit, he puts it all one the line putting all his power into his moves. His Power and Speed go up when he uses this increasing all his properties, and his body gets redder as it begins to emit steam. This is his "Kaio-Ken" if you will (really, I would compare it more to Luffy's Gear 2nd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzEWSxPEPMo). Basically what this does is it makes it so that Mac's POW meter is always at Level 3 when using this, making all of his specials brutal. The power of his neutrals and aerials increase, and his speed increases slightly. However, when using this, Mac's damage begins to rack up (2% every second for the first 10 seconds, and 5% afterwards, as well as 10% damage for each hit he lands). It goes away once he's KO'd.
[/COLLAPSE]

As an avid manga fan, to me Mac represents the typical Shounen Battle Manga Hero. The tough guy who never gives up, the underdog that surprises opponents with his hidden potential, his POW meter is a representation of that, showing that Mac can surprise opponents with his moves by tapping into himself. It also makes it so that Mac players have to learn to use him, they have to tap that feeling of KNOWING when to use his moves and let them go, thus creating a fine connection or synchronization if you will between the player and his avatar. In addition, his Specials are a great representation of Boxing Classics, earning him the titles of a TRUE Boxing Champion.

His general playstyle is a Beatdown character like C.Falcon. Very powerful, and fast. However, since he's just a normal guy (and somewhat short) Mac's air game is near garbage and his jumps are rather shallow as well. However, his ground game DOMINATES, making him a truly interesting character. He's a bit lighter than Falcon, however, he's much more resilient to taking hits than he appears and by no means a "Lightweight." Obviously, his weaknesses lie in ranged characters and Aerial characters.

Anyway, tell me what you think. I plan on drawing up some gesture for this as well like I did with Lyn and also working on his Neutrals and Smash attacks.

EDIT:
Also adding the Ike and Chrom ideas for future use.

For Ike, give him Axes, such as the Tomohawk/Hand Axe as a 5B for some mid/long range zoning. It's a lot like Link's Boomerang but with more of a "slashy" multi-hit ability.

His 2B is now Eruption rather than Counter, it's got strong resistance to hit-stun making it a good defensive move. His 4/6B is modified, giving him less range, but more speed. It also takes much less to charge.

All of his defenses are upped so he has less hitstun, takes less damage, and less knockback from hits, thus making him more of a heavyweight, like he should. His running speed is the same, but his fall speed is faster, this is both a buff and a restriction. His jump height is reduced a bit. His attack range stays the same

His tilts and aerials are all given less delay, thus making them faster. His 4/6A is replaced to be an Anti Air attack, it is an angled hit that hits at 45 degrees above him, the range and speed on his 2A is dramatically increased to compensate for the lack of a horizontal poke. Lastly, like all characters, he's given the ability to chain and string moves together, so a standard combo for him would look like this 5A>5A>2A>8A>8Smash. All of his Smash attacks remain the same in speed, range and power, they are meant to be slow killing moves, and the best way to use them is in combos. Well, his 2Smash can be changed to be a faster move with a little less power, horizontal knockback maybe?

Overall Ike is meant to be a slow defensive character, he has deadly range and good pokes a la Sagat, his Anti Air is very fast and very lethal, his 5B Axe makes for a good defensive poke/zoning move. Due to his poor jump, his air game is terrible however, it is only good defensively, however, Aether makes up for it by giving him a good mix up move and a great recovery attack. Some of his A attacks and Aerials have replaced Ragnell with his dad's Axe, giving them different hitboxes. Likewise, his 4/6 Smash is Ragnell in one hand and his Dad's Axe in the other, thus justifying its power. Obviously he gets his FE10 getup.

Also, all of his stupid "I fight for my friends" taunts and attitude, has been changed to make him a more honorable and heroic figure. However, his personality is more Ruthless and Brutal (think Simon in Gurren Lagann), the kinda guy who get's **** done and counts on his will power to do so. Also, his ruthlessness reflect his vindictive, yet respectful demeanor from his games (he fought to avenge his father, yet still had compassion for his rival).

Chrom

4/6B is Aether, since he too has Aether, he gets it as well, but as a SideB, the only similarity with Ike's Aether here is the name. This Aether steals health from foes on impact, not much, but it still does it (a la Ragna in BB, his drive steals health), it is a Two-hit rush move, and a great combo opener.

His 2B is Holy Shield (I think it was you who suggested this), it is a temporary Ability that increases Chroms frail defenses for a while, while also increasing the power of all his SPECIAL attacks. After being used, it must be recharged before her can use it again. It recharges faster the more hits Chrom lands.

Somewhere in his tilts he has a Javelin as a weapon (Fair? or 4/6A), he throws it but it has a chain attached to it so it returns to him, it hits opponents twice. If you hit with the tip (at peak range) it hits once, but has much greater knockback, a decent killing move.

The rest of the moves will have to wait till I play FE13.

Chrom's general playstyle is a nice contrast between Marth's offence and Ike's defense. He's a very well rounded character, with a lot of diverse abilities, his specials have mediocre power, but once he powers them up with Holy Shield they become very powerful (think Tsubaki in BlazBlue with her specials and power up ability). He's got good ground and air attacks, but has less aerial range than Marth, he's also slower than Marth, his defensive game is good as far as defensive moves, unlike Marth, but like Marth, he's in trouble once takes high damage and can be knocked around easily. UNLESS, he has Holy Shield activated which lets him be more reckless (doesn't make him as tough as Ike, but still better than Marth), however, at high damages, Holy Shield lasts less time.

A far as personality, he inherits that "I fight for my friends" attitude Ike had in Brawl.

As for Marth, he's buffed to be more like in Melee, and his 4/6B is improved to be more like the Astral abillity in FE (what it's based off of), in fact I would make Marth's 4/6B like Noel's Drive in BB, where activating it changes his specials and allows combos to be stung more easlily.

With this, I no longer find them being similar at all. All 3 of them have very unique and diverse moves, playstyles and personlities.

 

[~automatic]

Posting for sub; will r&r later.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm disappointed that this thread isn't more active, especially from the people that speculate on how characters work. It makes me think that people are too attached to the image and they miss out on what is presented beyond.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm also dissapointed. Just about every character could be discussed here. Current in the Smash roster, and potential newcomers. If this thread remains empty like this, I'll always feel like it was some wasted potential. Not wasted by Manly, but more by the public.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Let's talk about which characters could be a mix of styles!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anthony Higgs! Long ranged attacker, with some trickster stuff, and regular mix up game (if somewhat more sluggish).

 

[FalKoopa]

Paletuna Staff for both magic and melee attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm disappointed that this thread isn't more active, especially from the people that speculate on how characters work. It makes me think that people are too attached to the image and they miss out on what is presented beyond.

Well hey, I try to inspire people to think outside the box by coming up with challenges and showing off some of my ideas. It'd be great if more on the community started getting with their creative side to do some productive things. I know there's MYM, so I know some people like to come up with movesets and stuff, also, Shorty's challenge from the other day was fun. Oh well, at least it could serve as a reference point for many. I don't try to mention this thread TOO much as to not come off as a braggart, but I try to get it out there every once in a while.

 

[Bowserlick]

Does Smash's multi-movement options and percentage-based fighting demand different archetypes than other traditional fighting games? Or do the same archetypes easily apply?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Does Smash's multi-movement options and percentage-based fighting demand different archetypes than other traditional fighting games? Or do the same archetypes easily apply?

While there might be minute differences, generally every archtype is still in play. While Super Smash Bros. does play differently from traditional fighting games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, BlazBlue, and so on, the fundamentals of a fighting game are still there and should be treated as such.

 

[Deleted member]

While there might be minute differences, generally every archtype is still in play. While Super Smash Bros. does play differently from traditional fighting games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, BlazBlue, and so on, the fundamentals of a fighting game are still there and should be treated as such.

Exactly, it's essentially this that the refutes the whole "Smash isn't a fighting game" nonsense.

 

[Frostwraith]

While there might be minute differences, generally every archtype is still in play. While Super Smash Bros. does play differently from traditional fighting games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, BlazBlue, and so on, the fundamentals of a fighting game are still there and should be treated as such.

Exactly, it's essentially this that the refutes the whole "Smash isn't a fighting game" nonsense.

Those points very much.

Personally, I'd like to see a stance character that isn't a transforming character like Zelda. In fact, this is the reason I support the Avatar or Anna (from Fire Emblem) and Dark Pit (from Kid Icarus: Uprising) as characters.

Despite having posted this on the Social Roster thread, it's more appropriate place here.

I drafted a moveset idea for Dark Pit. I've briefly talked about Anna today already, so I'm continuing to show some character ideas for those interested. I made a support thread for Anna, so be sure to check it out!

First of all, I'd like to say that I'd be completely fine with Dark Pit being a simple recolor for Pit, but the whole idea behind my Dark Pit support is more or less similar to my idea behind a decloned Toon Link or some ideas I've seen being popped up for a Majora's Mask Link.

The idea is that Dark Pit could be a stance character and mostly based around Kid Icarus: Uprising's gameplay, while Pit retains his moveset from Brawl, based on the original Kid Icarus, keeping moves like the Mirror Shield and such.

Before talking special moves, he, like other flying characters, would have the ability to glide.

The neutral B special for Dark Pit would be to fire the weapon he's currently wielding, taking time to charge, much like R.O.B.'s neutral special and KI:U's gameplay. Hold B for rapid fire.

Down B would change his weapon in this cycle: Silver Bow -> Dark Pit Staff -> Ogre Club -> Silver Bow

Up B would be the same as Pit, by activating flight. Essential for recovery.

Side B would be a move he does in his boss battle, in which he charges forward.

With the bow equipped, he would share most of Pit's moves, albeit with some slight tweaks, but nothing major. Perhaps it could be given a slightly more aggressive feel to them or something.
This mode aims for a Jack-of-all-trades archetype.

With the staff equipped, he'd lose walking and running speed, but his neutral special would increase in power and range drastically. With staffs in Uprising being sniper weapons, the projectile would be very fast, but with slow buffer, being easily interrupted and dodged with good timed air dodge.
With staffs being weak in close combat, some A moves wouldn't be very strong, but would be easier to combo. He could also use kicking in all weapon modes that wouldn't be affected by the weapon equipped. His Smash attacks in this mode would involve him firing the staff with short range projectiles (similar to Snake's Up Smash).
This mode makes Dark Pit more of a glass cannon: weak in close ranged attacks, more sluggish movements, but with devastating slow-charging projectiles.

With the club equipped, Dark Pit would fit in the category of a mighty glacier. Sluggish like Bowser or Ganondorf, but heavier (have you seen the size of clubs in Kid Icarus: Uprising?) and stronger.
In Uprising, clubs focused on charged shots and melee attacks. Same story here. When armed with a club, Dark Pit becomes slow and heavy, but still having good jumping and flight abilities (he's an angel, after all).
The B move loses its rapid fire option, being replaced by continuous blows that reflect projectiles, with the charged shots being slow and not being cancelled when hitting other characters. The projectiles would also be big sized, but not as stronger as the staff's. Melee attacks would also be slow, but packing a lot of punch and not having much combo ability.

He wouldn't exactly be a transforming character, as some moves remain the same in all three modes, such as Up B, Side B and all A moves involving kicking. Think of Gen in Street Fighter IV, which was one of my inspirations for this Dark Pit idea.

The AAA combos would be taken directly from Uprising's melee combos, even with the bow equipped (distinguishing him from Pit). Same for the dash attack.

The Final Smash would be the Daybreak, a powerful weapon from Uprising's multiplayer that fires a One Hit KO laser. Unlike Lucario's or Samus's Final Smashes, this laser wouldn't be continuously fired, being fired in a short amount of time and giving one single hit to all foes in its path, making this more similar to Zelda's/Sheik's Final Smash, Light Arrow.

After seeing the massive number of weapons and playstyles in Uprising, I thought that it would be interesting to implement them on Smash. The problem is that Pit already has a moveset based on the original Kid Icarus and to have stuff from Uprising, he'd need a massive overhaul that could alienate Pit mainers from Brawl. That's why I went with the idea of Dark Pit being based on Uprising's gameplay.

 

[Second Power]

Okay, how to get started. This idea has been bouncing around my head for about a day, while thinking of how Kirby's copy ability could be more useful. The end result of this was as follows: First off, before copying an opponent, Kirby has no special but an enchanced versus now inhale. Instead of copy simply taking the opponents neutral B move, it will change Kirby into 1 of 4 forms based on who he inhales. These forms would be unique to Smash, but algamations of several of his cannon transformations.

• Weapons Kirby, the result of inhaling any (melee) weapon weilding character (Link, Dedede, etc). This form combines Kirby's Cutter, Sword, and Hammer forms. As far as archetypes go, he fall under mix up or balanced, either would be fine. Overall, Weapons Kirbys is the least polarizing of the forms due to the wide variety of opponents he could be fighting.
• Battle Kirby, obtained from any fist fighter. He combines Kirby's Fighter and Suplex forms (though, simply Fighter Kirby sounds a smidgen better, even if it isn't accurate.) I'd like to see Suplex get the emphasize, with this form being a Semi-Grappler. He could use a 'rushing' grab similar to the games to increase his range, though the weight might be a bit of a problem.
• Mage Kirby, obtained from any magic user (Zelda, Gannondorf, the PSI kids, and to bring the number up, all Pokemon). A combination of the Beam, Mirror, and various elemental abilities. Maybe a turtle, as it doesn't seem weight is a requirement. I'm quite unclear on the concept, but turtles are mid range fighters, right (I'm probably simplifying this far too much, so forgive me)? Kirby doesn't get any projectiles from these transformations (except a charged beam attack), so mid range fighter seems to fit. Could throw a few counters based on Mirror in there, as well.
• Tech Kirby, obtained from anyone from a 'sci-fi'ish setting (the spacies, Samus, ROB, Ridley). Uses Laser, UFO, and Jet kirby. A Sniper, with charge mechanics. Not much else to say. I'd imagine he could have very high mobility. Though, this doesn't sound all too interesting. Maybe an ammo based mechanic where he had a fuel gauge, that recharged while standing still or through use of a special. He'd use fuel for long range attacks, along with recovery and boosted mobility.

As far as moveset changes go, Weapon and Mage Kirby get entirely new move sets to better suit their needs (Weapon could borrow some stuff from Metaknight and King Dedede) while Fighter and Tech would keep several of the moves from Kirby's normal form (Respectively, Fighter gets new Smash attacks, throws, and a few air attacks, while Tech has many of the same moves but slowed down, relying more on his projectiles). I may pen full movesets for each form, but I'd probably need quite a lot of help doing so. If anyone is willing to work with me on it, I'd love to hear from you.

My main goal here was making Kirby more versatile (as he should be) without being to such an overpowering degree. Currently, he simply feels like he has untapped potential. He has an interesting gimmick, but very rarely is it ever useful. It also reflects the games well, in the way that you wouldn't get a choice of abilities for the most part, and made use of what you had on hand. I feel like its self balancing in a way; Kirby will have a maximum of three forms he can choose from assuming a large game, while mono-e-mono he will only have one. Though, I'm toying around with the idea of being able to choose a form on the select screen. Would help him a lot. The main problem, however, is that it detracts from the concept of 'use what you have on hand'. Is that worth maybe ****ing the whole concept? Nevermind, answered my own question.

So, how would this be for a stance character and Kirby revamp? I'm really interesting in hearing everyone's thoughts

Spoiler

and getting discussion on this subject started

(Just pretend they're there)

Edit: Ironically ninja'd by someone else also with a stance fighter.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm liking this thread. Makes me wonder if we'll ever get a true stance changer in the series.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Second Power
I really like this idea. Still, I feel there needs to be a large emphasis still on "vanilla" Kirby. I feel this could make Kirby much harder to balance than most other characters simply because he needs to have certain tools available exclusive to certain matchups. What might be a better idea is to make Kirby the Lei Wulong of Smash. Kirby would have his main stance/mode where he has no powerup in particular. However, through certain moves and inhale, he can switch to certain Kirby modes which give him different abilities. Like Lei though, he would only have a limited amount of moves available to him in these modes. In the biggest ironic twist, this would make Kirby the MOST complicated character on the roster, second possibly only to Olimar.

The only other characters I can see as having stances are Wolf (ala Valkenhayn and Kuma (SFxTK)), Meowth, and maybe Saki (not sure, but maybe).

EDIT: ****, how the hell did I forget Samus? That girl has been long overdue for Morph Ball mode.

 

[Deleted member]

@Second Power
I really like this idea. Still, I feel there needs to be a large emphasis still on "vanilla" Kirby. I feel this could make Kirby much harder to balance than most other characters simply because he needs to have certain tools available exclusive to certain matchups. What might be a better idea is to make Kirby the Lei Wulong of Smash. Kirby would have his main stance/mode where he has no powerup in particular. However, through certain moves and inhale, he can switch to certain Kirby modes which give him different abilities. Like Lei though, he would only have a limited amount of moves available to him in these modes. In the biggest ironic twist, this would make Kirby the MOST complicated character on the roster, second possibly only to Olimar.

The only other characters I can see as having stances are Wolf (ala Valkenhayn and Kuma (SFxTK)), Meowth, and maybe Saki (not sure, but maybe).

EDIT: ****, how the hell did I forget Samus? That girl has been long overdue for Morph Ball mode.

I can see Saki being a strong stance character. A cross between short range strikes with the beam sword and switching over to the gun for long range attacks. I got the idea from God Eater. I had wanted Alisa in for teh concept of having someone who could seamlessly swap between Gun and Sword. If you haven't played it, just watch a video of the game. It's basically an edgy Monster Hunter, but the concept with the Gun and Sword is kinda cool.

 

[Big-Cat]

At first, I thought you were talking about Tekken Alisa with her chainsaws.

 

[Deleted member]

Nah, I meant this girl:

She's only character in that game worth a damn.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Manly, why isn't Marth ranked as a Poker? He's the best example Smash has for this archetype.

Diddy also has some rush down strategies on him.

 

[Deleted member]

Manly, why isn't Marth ranked as a Poker? He's the best example Smash has for this archetype.

Diddy also has some rush down strategies on him.

Because Marth takes some poking straegies and blends them with focused Momentum, Marth is also very balanced. So technically he can fit in all 3, he just blends most with Momentum as, like I said, Marth is all about flow. When you get that rhythm going Marth dominates, break the flow and Marth begins to perform poorly.

Poking is more defensive oriented, something Marth is not good at, at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well yeah that's true he's definitely too fragile to take hits back effectively. And he's probably too fast to be a real poker as well.

How about Diddy being a Rush Down character though?

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Oh, now this is a cool thread.

Waddle Dee could work great as the definitive Poker of the game. I see him as a character who plays a mean mid-range game with his spear, the length of which offers him great harassment options from a distance, but weakens his close-quarters effectiveness. Because he'd be lightweight, he'd have a focus on staying away from heavy hits, and would require good spacing to land sweet-spotted hits. If they exaggerate the spear's length, they could even make him a bit of a turtle.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lanky Kong would make a great Poker to. But he's realistically never getting in however...

 

[Deleted member]

Well yeah that's true he's definitely too fragile to take hits back effectively. And he's probably too fast to be a real poker as well.

How about Diddy being a Rush Down character though?

I think I put Diddy as trap-layer alongside Snake.

Well, for one, keep in mind that this is not (yet) a definitive guide, that's why I encourage people to critique my choices, as it stands it's just one man's analysis and opinion. In fact, the more I play some of my other games, the more I feel like adding and changing things a bit. For example Reptile from MK could fall under mix-up. Mu-12, now that I have more experience with her I feel would be better as a Sniper, though Mu-12 is a bit of a mixed bag really.

I honestly don't main Diddy King, thus I have little experience with what he can do, but reading the guides on his subforum I notice a lot of his character is focused around item play with the banana and peanuts. Likewise, he also has a grapple move as a SideB. This makes him very mind game oriented. I count Diddy as defensive, the same as Snake, because both have to take a pause to lay traps and use ranged attacks, staying on the defensive before creating an opening. Now both also differ from Link who's a Sniper, because both are indirect. They can simply lay a trap, walk away, and leave it there till it becomes useful during a fight. Link is much more direct in his approach to combat, making him more of a Sniper. DIddy and Snake are much more indirect to their approach making them much more unpredictable.

Rush Down breaks into 3 choices, one that's all pressure and requires some sort of flow. (Momentum), these characters rarely have ranged attacks. One that ia more of a mixed bag of tools that they can use on the offensive, but do very poorly playing defensively. In most other fighters these characters tend to be hindered by lighter weight and lower GUTS ratings meaning they take more damage, same as Momentum. And one that is all Brawn and Power at a faster speed. Their weight and size can vary, as well as their defences.

Diddy doesn't quite fit in those three, well, perhaps as a mix up, I dunno, you tell me. Remember that some also fit in multiple categories, like Mu-12.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hey Manly. Do you think R.O.B. might be a poker?

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I'm trying to think of a way to classify ROB, and most accurate I can get is that he's probably in some transition somewhere between Mix-Up and Beatdown. I I don't play ROB, but he seems to have a pretty good set of interchangeable moves to allow for mixups (Uair and Nair for instance). I've known a good few ROB players who really know how to play mind games. He seems to have some Beatdown attributes as well, despite his two projectiles. He doesn't have long combos, but he hits for some pretty good damage and has a good set of kill moves. He's definitely fast enough to rush in and land a hit or two as well.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I might get in this thread a bit because I remember doing character fight styles too (for Ivan from Golden Sun and Ethan/Gold from PKMN Adventures). Iris from Pokemon-series had catched my eye a bit by the way.

 

[FlareHabanero]

R.O.B. is more of a zoning character, who's designed to wear down the opponent with projectiles like the gyros and lasers. He's not designed to be aggressive with combos in mind.

 

[Deleted member]

I have NO IDEA about R.O.B. man, never cared too much for him, and I hated fighting against him. I remember playing against him with my casual friends, and R.O.B. is one of those characters with an annoying FS during a Brawl...

**** pissed me off.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think I put Diddy as trap-layer alongside Snake.

Well, for one, keep in mind that this is not (yet) a definitive guide, that's why I encourage people to critique my choices, as it stands it's just one man's analysis and opinion. In fact, the more I play some of my other games, the more I feel like adding and changing things a bit. For example Reptile from MK could fall under mix-up. Mu-12, now that I have more experience with her I feel would be better as a Sniper, though Mu-12 is a bit of a mixed bag really.

I honestly don't main Diddy King, thus I have little experience with what he can do, but reading the guides on his subforum I notice a lot of his character is focused around item play with the banana and peanuts. Likewise, he also has a grapple move as a SideB. This makes him very mind game oriented. I count Diddy as defensive, the same as Snake, because both have to take a pause to lay traps and use ranged attacks, staying on the defensive before creating an opening. Now both also differ from Link who's a Sniper, because both are indirect. They can simply lay a trap, walk away, and leave it there till it becomes useful during a fight. Link is much more direct in his approach to combat, making him more of a Sniper. DIddy and Snake are much more indirect to their approach making them much more unpredictable.

Rush Down breaks into 3 choices, one that's all pressure and requires some sort of flow. (Momentum), these characters rarely have ranged attacks. One that ia more of a mixed bag of tools that they can use on the offensive, but do very poorly playing defensively. In most other fighters these characters tend to be hindered by lighter weight and lower GUTS ratings meaning they take more damage, same as Momentum. And one that is all Brawn and Power at a faster speed. Their weight and size can vary, as well as their defences.

Diddy doesn't quite fit in those three, well, perhaps as a mix up, I dunno, you tell me. Remember that some also fit in multiple categories, like Mu-12.

Well, honestly, playing Diddy is ALL about the flow and rhytym, much like Marth. And Bananas hardly count as traps, it's more his style of projectiles. Nobody ever really trips from Bananas Diddy lays, he uses them himself. And leaving them is actually a boon for his opponent. Diddy is actually all about offensive play. As he hates camping, even though he's able to do so himself quite well (again, so could Fox). Diddy can play defensive though, but most likely you wanna be on the offensive side as a Diddy player.

Actually, I think Diddy, MetaKnight and Marth are probably the most offense-based characters in Brawl.

 

[Bowserlick]

Wouldn't R.O.B fall under the Power-Up subcategory? Three of his four specials can be powered-up, either by time or by holding the input.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's not quite the same thing. Power-Up usually refers to either stocking up "points" for certain attacks or having status enhancements (i.e. Hakan).

 

[Deleted member]

Well, it depends on R.O.B. can he move around and do other things after charging his moves like Samus does? If so, then yes, he should be. Look at G&W, and Lucario.

However, if it functions like a Smash Attack, then no.

Smash is sorta odd, because it breaks the traditional standard. Which is good.


@Diddy

I was gonna say this earlier but I forgot man. If one more person can vouch for your I'll move Diddy to Rushdown, though he might be more of a hybrid imo.

Also, I feel like I should redo the list a little, because as I've played more fighters, I've noticed that you can have Offensive Zoners (Ky), and Defensive Momentum types (Noel). So perhaps that's where a lot of the discrepancies come from. Also, MixUp is hard to define in Smash as MixUp refers to a character's ability to easily do MixUps and Cross Ups, like Litchi. Something hard to do in Smash. Essentially it boils down to mindgames, but in Arcade fighters that's a little easier to notice than in Smash.

Thoughts?

 

[Big-Cat]

I still think whiff punishing needs to be discussed more in the OP. In fact, a good number of the characters I play take pride in this while somewhat falling into different categories. To add to the list:

El Fuerte - Whiff punshing, setups, 50/50 mixups, heavy movement.
King - Classic grappler
Jaycee - Mix of whiff punishing, heavy movement (a topic not covered that much), high risk/high reward, and Wind Rolls mixups.
Xiaoyu - Pokes, stance user, heavy movement, whiff punishing, heavy mind games.
Eileen - Pressure, mixups, high risk/high reward.

This thread should help add plenty of Tekken examples to the OP.
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...18895&threadid=125509&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

 

[Bowserlick]

Top five on the poll (not counting Mewtwo who has already been in Smash): Megaman, Ridley, Little Mac, King K. Rool, Waluigi

How do you think their fighting style should be in terms of archetype if they were to appear in Smash and why?

 

[Deleted member]

I still think whiff punishing needs to be discussed more in the OP. In fact, a good number of the characters I play take pride in this while somewhat falling into different categories. To add to the list:

El Fuerte - Whiff punshing, setups, 50/50 mixups, heavy movement.
King - Classic grappler
Jaycee - Mix of whiff punishing, heavy movement (a topic not covered that much), high risk/high reward, and Wind Rolls mixups.
Xiaoyu - Pokes, stance user, heavy movement, whiff punishing, heavy mind games.
Eileen - Pressure, mixups, high risk/high reward.

This thread should help add plenty of Tekken examples to the OP.
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...18895&threadid=125509&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Hmm, so you suggest adding whiff punishing to the list? Where should it go? Any non-Tekken examples you can think of as well?

Top five on the poll (not counting Mewtwo who has already been in Smash): Megaman, Ridley, Little Mac, King K. Rool, Waluigi

How do you think their fighting style should be in terms of archetype if they were to appear in Smash and why?

Little Mac is Beatdown for sure.
Waluigi a Trap-Layer + MixUp hybrid.
Ridley would be an aerial focused Poker/Sniper.

MegaMan a Sniper of sorts and K.Rool perhaps a Heavy Powerhouse with some Zoning mixed in.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Waluigi: Joke character.
Little Mac: Beat Down yes.
King K.Rool: Grappler with Zoning?