Changes in 1.06

[NathanaelS626]

Thought it would be a good idea to put all known or suspected changes to Zelda in the new patch here. Seems that her U-Smash and F-Smash are fixed or simply much better, but other than that I cannot personally confirm any other changes for sure. Her aerials seem the same, as does her tilts and specials. Any other alterations made that others know about?

 

[KenMeister]

Somebody had mentioned her Uair is faster, but take that with a grain of salt.

 

[NathanaelS626]

I tested the u-air, hoping it had a larger hitbox or something, and it seems barely changed in my opinion.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

The only noticeable change that has any validity is Fsmash not being as easy to fall out of, with ZSS being the benchmark since she always fell so easily out of it before.

For anything else at all that's way more subtle, wait for the datamine instead of spreading around rumors based on poor perception.

 

[Brinzy]

The only definite thing is Fsmash is harder to fall out of thanks to the earlier hits having better angles.

That's really it.

 

[raazychx]

It feels like the Phantom sticks around longer after you send it out...

 

[Macchiato]

I'm sure phantom has less endlag

 

[Cosmo!]

I think the only confirmed change at the moment is the phantom endlag thing (from the main patch thread in competitive discussion)

 

[Formaldehyde]

Forward Smash and Up Smash seem to have much nicer hit properties, to the extent that they actually stay in it now not sure if there's been a buff to when it knocks out, (I'm unsure as I rarley used it before they fixed it this patch and I'm unfamiliar with Mewtwo's weight)
As for the UAir, I personally feel it's much much better I've been landing it much more frequently. (Take that with a grain of salt until confirmed otherwise).

 

[JigglyZelda003]

dsmash though :v

 

[BJN39]

Fsmash's angle change-fix is definitely a thing, but I'm of the belief that there was also a slight multi-hit WKB change, as simple angle changes wouldn't stop ZSS from going into tumble when hit by it. Which, now she doesn't. (Something I won't be able to confirm until the data dump is available.)

Phantom had three changes found so far, all pretty small, but confirmed. Phantom hangs around a tiny bit longer, you can now act like 3 frames sooner after release, and you have to wait longer now after your phantom is destroyed to use it again.

I also believe something may be different in Usmash's data, as one easy test-exploit for finding if people fall out will not happen anymore. Can't wait to eat up mastercore 1.0.6 data.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

I feel like Ftilt has received some kind of buff, but I'm not sure, and I feel like Nayru's Love might've had a slight change as well. Something felt different about those two, but I can't confirm.
Also, I'm very positive Uair comes out faster now.
I have tested every single attack and found that they all do the same amount of damage, so no buffs there (unless it's by .2 or something).

 

[Uncertain Title]

Everybody: Okay, so D-Tilt is still the same *resets* okay, F-Tilt still whiffs if they're too close...*resets*...
Me: *Sets damage to 75* Ah Elevator is still good. *Shuts off 3DS*

In all seriousness though, I'm happy with the patch for Zelda Just wish her F-Tilt was made more reliable...
Even though my other main (Sheik) got nerfed pretty bad, the patch for Zelda made me happy with the whole thing.

 

[Zylach]

So, after messing around with Zelda some more against a friend of mine (instead of against cpu's in training mode) I've noticed a few subtle things. Dtilt seems to have a small KB growth decrease. Hitting people with dtilt when they are around 100% used to send them up too high to hit them with a FH fair, now, it seems that it sends them lower allowing for the FH fair to hit them though it still requires some reading on our part to hit that fair.

I also noticed that the hitbox for fair (not sure about bair) sweetspot had extended very slightly. I hit my friend when my foot wasn't even touching him but it sweetspotted and killed. The changes to fsmash and usmash are wonderful. I caught my friend in usmash as he was jumping over my head as speed Shulk and I caught him on the very edge of usmash's hitbox and he got sucked into the entirety of the attack. Same as fsmash. I caught him in the air with a fsmash and he still got sucked into it so, while grounded opponents get stuck easier, so do aerial opponents.

The changes to phantom are hardly noticeable but I'll take ~3 frames of endlag shaved off. I'm not complaining. These all seem like buffs to me. Subtle buffs but buffs nontheless. No change to landing lag as far as I can tell unfortunately. I can't find any nerfs so I'm not gonna complain about that either.

 

[NathanaelS626]

I am probably mistaken, but after using Din's Fire a bit more I think it may have a larger 5% sour spot area. Would need someone else to confirm that, but it seemed I was hitting opponents more easily even if the damage was less than ideal; as far as Naryu's Love goes, I think it's unchanged but I'm not certain.

 

[BJN39]

So, after messing around with Zelda some more against a friend of mine (instead of against cpu's in training mode) I've noticed a few subtle things. Dtilt seems to have a small KB growth decrease. Hitting people with dtilt when they are around 100% used to send them up too high to hit them with a FH fair, now, it seems that it sends them lower allowing for the FH fair to hit them though it still requires some reading on our part to hit that fair.

I also noticed that the hitbox for fair (not sure about bair) sweetspot had extended very slightly. I hit my friend when my foot wasn't even touching him but it sweetspotted and killed. The changes to fsmash and usmash are wonderful. I caught my friend in usmash as he was jumping over my head as speed Shulk and I caught him on the very edge of usmash's hitbox and he got sucked into the entirety of the attack. Same as fsmash. I caught him in the air with a fsmash and he still got sucked into it so, while grounded opponents get stuck easier, so do aerial opponents.

The changes to phantom are hardly noticeable but I'll take ~3 frames of endlag shaved off. I'm not complaining. These all seem like buffs to me. Subtle buffs but buffs nontheless. No change to landing lag as far as I can tell unfortunately. I can't find any nerfs so I'm not gonna complain about that either.

Oop, just remembered, I tested what percent Dtilt KO'ed at in relation to the number on TFF, and it was the same, so the KB is more than likely unchanged.

 

[Zylach]

Oop, just remembered, I tested what percent Dtilt KO'ed at in relation to the number on TFF, and it was the same, so the KB is more than likely unchanged.

Same angle and everything? It definitely felt different... The placebo effect is stronger than I thought. Am I really perceiving anything right now? What is truth?

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Well, is it me or are the Lightning Kicks (that no longer have lightning) easier to land now? I've landed more tonight than I ever have. Maybe I just got better over night, I don't know.

 

[Zylach]

Well, is it me or are the Lightning Kicks (that no longer have lightning) easier to land now? I've landed more tonight than I ever have. Maybe I just got better over night, I don't know.

I think I've hit less today than normal though I hit one that I absolutely shouldn't have hit so some tweaking of the hitboxes might have occurred.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

I think I've hit less today than normal though I hit one that I absolutely shouldn't have hit so some tweaking of the hitboxes might have occurred.

I think that might be the case. Also, do you guys know if jab had tripping properties? I don't remember this happening before the patch.
Edit: One thing no one has mentioned so far is: possibly another matchup in Zelda's favor. I've fought quite a few Mewtwos today in friend's rooms and FG, and Zelda just seems to have the advantage. I don't mean to brag, but my Mewtwo was better than each of theirs, so in other words, take what I said with a grain of salt since I haven't come across any good ones. I did main him in Melee though, so he came back naturally. Because he's ridiculously light, Zelda can get rid of him quickly. Her Fair and Bair are easy to land because he's a huge target. His lack of moves hitting on both sides (except for his Utilt) really hurts him if you happen to be behind him. If he's behind you, don't worry about disable, because it only works if he's facing the front of you. I might not recommend using the phantom for ledge guarding though, because Confusion helps his recovery and reflects at the same time.

 

[Phenomiracle]

@ BJN39 , can you check if Uthrow's KB has been nerfed?

 

[Zylach]

Obviously, I haven't seen enough high level Mewtwo gameplay to know exactly but that definitely seems like a MU that would be in our favor. His kill moves are slow and have tons of endlag that we can punish and we can reflect his shadow ball (his only other kill move besides smashes and fair/dair). He's tall so Lkicks can land. He actually has endlag on his aerials like characters should so we can punish those too. His throws are lackluster though he averages around 11% for his throws and uthrow/bthrow kill in he mid-late percents. His dthrow has mediocre combo potential and does low damage so getting grabbed isn't quite so bad as getting grabbed by characters like Diddy which means we're fairly safe in shield meaning we can utilize our great OoS game against him. Can't gimp that teleport recovery though which is a shame but shouldn't matter since we can kill him wickedly early due to his low weight. The only thing I see him having over us is range and we have disjoints so who cares?

 

[RayStrYke]

Obviously, I haven't seen enough high level Mewtwo gameplay to know exactly but that definitely seems like a MU that would be in our favor. His kill moves are slow and have tons of endlag that we can punish and we can reflect his shadow ball (his only other kill move besides smashes and fair/dair). He's tall so Lkicks can land. He actually has endlag on his aerials like characters should so we can punish those too. His throws are lackluster though he averages around 11% for his throws and uthrow/bthrow kill in he mid-late percents. His dthrow has mediocre combo potential and does low damage so getting grabbed isn't quite so bad as getting grabbed by characters like Diddy which means we're fairly safe in shield meaning we can utilize our great OoS game against him. Can't gimp that teleport recovery though which is a shame but shouldn't matter since we can kill him wickedly early due to his low weight. The only thing I see him having over us is range and we have disjoints so who cares?

True there has been a lot of noobs playing a mewtwo

The only pro about mewtwo as far as i could see is that his grabs are almost his most powerful moves

Plus Mewtwo looks alot bigger than i could remember from on Melee

 

[BJN39]

@ R RayStrYke watch out about double posting. In the future, please remember to use the edit function at the bottom of your post if you'd like to add on to your comment before someone else has posted. ^ ^

@ BJN39 , can you check if Uthrow's KB has been nerfed?

Ooh, I actually had a number for this pre-update, and I compared them while initially testing and iirc it KO'ed at the same %. Just in case I'll do it again tomorrow to make sure.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Ooh, I actually had a number for this pre-update, and I compared them while initially testing and iirc it KO'ed at the same %. Just in case I'll do it again tomorrow to make sure.

I tested every single move and got that all of them did the same percent damage (unless they were sneaky and put another decimal increase) as before, and her throws felt untouched. Everything feels like it KO's at the same percent as it did before, unless knockback growth was increased and I didn't notice.

 

[Funtroon]

Quick question, but did her fair recieve any buffs when it comes to it's consistency in getting the sweet spot? And would you say that she was generally "buffed?"

 

[Meru.]

We are all wondering about the Fair (and maybe Bair change). The sweetspot does seem a bit easier to hit with but I'm still also whiffing it frequently so I'm really not sure.

Can anybody confirm whether the Dthrow angle changed? People just aren't DIing out of my Dthrow > Uair but I dont know if that's because they suck or because it is really impossible to DI.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

dthrow is still the same afaik. People just seem to not DI today

 

[NathanaelS626]

Quick question, but did her fair recieve any buffs when it comes to it's consistency in getting the sweet spot? And would you say that she was generally "buffed?"

I think f-air and b-air are still the same size hitbox, although it may have moved slightly. She was not buffed except for her smashes, which was more of a fix than a buff, except I hear u-air might be better now which would be cool.

 

[*JuriHan*]

lol they didn't do squat to her f-smash, I still have characters fall out of it when I use it. You guys are seriously kidding yourself thinking they fixed it. Nintendo clearly only balances games based off of For Glory stats, and people (read: causal scrubs/the masses) can't stop running into it, and "omg dins fire 2gud i cant n-air it111!!!" which is probably why they will never fix this poor character. Look what they did the Lil Mac. Makes me sad they didn't give any substantial improvements to Zelda. Guess it's only balanced off of For Glory and Free For Alls online smh

 

[Zylach]

They absolutely changed fsmash and usmash. I haven't had anyone fall out of it since the patch. The only reason people should be falling out of it now is if you're using it on aerial opponents and even then, there's a good chance they'll stay in it. They changed a lot of other multhit moves as well which are just as obvious as ours. Ask the Robin and Bowser Jr. mains and they'll tell you the same thing.

 

[ariwl1]

Fsmash is definitely better. I think I've had one person fall out of the many times and it really upped my FG game last night Usmash feels different but I haven't wrapped my head completely around it yet.

 

[Dihan]

Having fsmash and usmash available are definitely buffs. It's just a shame usmash doesn't have the same hitboxes as it did in Brawl. I think DHD has more reliable smashes too, though they can still whiff.

 

[ariwl1]

It's actually weird to have it back now as I had gotten used to never using Fsmash or Usmash with Zelda anymore, but I'll take any expansion of the tool-set I can get. Smashing three Mewtwo's in For Fun mode nearly simultaneously is a special kind of thrill.

 

[BJN39]

lol they didn't do squat to her f-smash, I still have characters fall out of it when I use it. You guys are seriously kidding yourself thinking they fixed it.

I'm sorry if you're still dropping people often when you're using Fsmash, but it's completely true that Fsmash had some alterations made, and I made it CLEAR that it still isn't going to connect 100% of the time.

It connects very consistently on grounded opponents, and gets very slightly less and less reliable the farther off the ground the opponent is. At some point vs specific characters it will still drop. Now though, it's more like a 60% chance of getting the final hit at the worse end instead of A 10% CHANCE.

It has been proven, side-by-side between the versions that alterations were made, and that they improve its consistency.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I personally don't think Usmash was changed, though. Even at release, people falling out of Usmash was rare, though it still happened at really inopportune times. Have Mewtwo and Zelda standing right on top of each other and have her Usmash, and he'll rise through the top 80% of the time.

 

[BJN39]

I personally don't think Usmash was changed, though. Even at release, people falling out of Usmash was rare, though it still happened at really inopportune times. Have Mewtwo and Zelda standing right on top of each other and have her Usmash, and he'll rise through the top 80% of the time.

Don't forget Jigglypuff

I AM curious though if something insignificant was changed though. I had found this way to force Mario to fall out of Usmash in training in 1.0.4-5, by going to 100%, then standing point-blank next to him and doing a fully charged Usmash. It would drop him maybe 40% of the time, but for the life of me it won't be replicated in 1.0.6, he ends up getting (correctly) caught every time (Tested way too many times.) even though he goes in the exact same places during the hits.

 

[NathanaelS626]

Having fsmash and usmash available are definitely buffs. It's just a shame usmash doesn't have the same hitboxes as it did in Brawl. I think DHD has more reliable smashes too, though they can still whiff.

Yeah, I have yet to have an opponent fall out of either since the patch, and even if it's not quite as in Brawl it's a heck of a lot better than what we've had up until now.

 

[*JuriHan*]

They absolutely changed fsmash and usmash. I haven't had anyone fall out of it since the patch. The only reason people should be falling out of it now is if you're using it on aerial opponents and even then, there's a good chance they'll stay in it. They changed a lot of other multhit moves as well which are just as obvious as ours. Ask the Robin and Bowser Jr. mains and they'll tell you the same thing.

I'll start saving replays. It was against a Mewtwo, but maybe he just has a janky hurtbox. I do hope they fixed her... they should of done more...

 

[Rickster]

Honestly I'm just happy they bothered to take a closer look at her moveset.

It only took 14 years and 4 months for them to fix it.