Changes from PM to Ultimate

[Minaj]

I'm looking to make this thread on a few of my mains because I am interested in the primary changes between these characters and their state in ultimate and how they compare to their PM counterparts as that has been my Smash of choice for years. Forgive any ignorance towards ultimate, I was reluctant to adopt a new smash game and have put less than 20 hours into it so far.

As for Marth, who has always been sort of a pocket/counter pick for me, where does he stand?

Lucina vs Marth: How does he compare to Lucina? They feel the same but I haven't seen any hit-box data as of yet and if there is a weight difference, I can't feel it. Is it a genuine re-skin or is there a difference I've not yet noticed.

Match-up's and combos: With so many characters now in the game, does Marth have any hard counters? It doesn't seem as though he can SH into double F-air any longer but if he can, and if the timing is just different or more strict, I'd love to know. Ken Combo does seem to work but with the air-dodges being what they are is this even a viable option when B-air hits much further off stage?

Thanks for any and all information. I look forward to seeing more on Marth in the future.

Minaj

 

[Nagol]

Marth and Lucina are really good this time around coming off a smash 4 background. Their ability to wall out with sword is much better this time around and the movement options are greatly improved.

Marth - No wave dash means it's much harder to micro space the tipper especially on opponents ledge get ups. This isn't too bad since you can now perform any attack out of a dash. The tipper smash attacks can kill much earlier then lucina but so far i've not seen too many early killing Marth plays.

Lucina - is a very good all around since you don't need to worry about spacing the tipper as much,so you can play a much slower neutral that results in a kill at consistent percents. Lucina's benefit is that you know exactly what percents will kill with every attack and you don't need to worry about missing a tipper to get the kill.

edge guarding is huge for both these characters since they can cover so close to the blast zone and still recover. A nice technique that carries over from pm is dashing (jumping) off stage immediately input B-air and then b-air your opponent out of the blast zone. If an opponent is falling to recover low you might be able to catch them by dashing off and using d-air to spike them. Many other options but since you have that spacing tool most characters won't dare challenge you if you look to guard them.

d-air is for sure weaker in this game compared to PM and often the setups i've seen come from grab releases near the ledge. Most combos are short strings that just lead to juggles. The most common is late up-air into up tilts.

Match ups: any projectile character that can keep it's space will be really dangerous. So a simon and richter that are spacing well with their projectiles and whip can be a very annoying match. Inkling also can be a tough match up since you can't play a long game in neutral with them so you will need to find set ups early or keep them from dominating neutral.