Chaingrab Issues

[rodrigo_ssbb]

After some reading, I understood that the reason why Falco and DDD have such a great advantage over wolf is the chain grab. This chain grab can also lead to a quick kill if followed by a spike (I don't know if DDD also spikes like Falco after the CG), but does the CG+Spike always KO?

I'm asking because I saw a video where Lucien (Wolf) fights a Falco and gets CGed and spiked, but managed to recover. So if it's not a KO the match-ups shouldn't be all that great for them. What do you think?

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I dont think DDD has a spike but I havent really played many experienced DDDs.


Falcos spike is usually a death unless they mess up somehow.

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

This is the video i mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62g82Ch2mgY

It seems like a well done spike, but I don't have much experience against Falco. The only main I battled was on a tournament, but he wasn't very good.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can meteor cancel it by pressing UpB asap iirc. I could be wrong though...I don't use Wolf vs Falco (I'm not suicidal -_-). Dedede has no spike and he isn't as bad as Falco. Falco is more mobile and much stronger in the air. That's a major issue - Falco doesn't have the advantage because of the CG. It only makes matters worse

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

The falco didn't properly edge hog, thus the spike was a fail.

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

It has been said that DDD is worst than Falco because of edge guarding and CG at any percents...

This video illustrates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeI7P-hV1oc



*Worst = Harder

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't know who says that Dedede is worse. Falco is Wolfs worst match-up. Then MK and then Dedede

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

Well, a lot of people said it at the "Official Match-up Index!".

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

Yes, but IMO Germ was playing a little to agressive for that match up, you gotta space perfectly when fighting D3 with wolf, taking advantage of stage spikes is also a key part of the Wolf vs D3 match up.

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

Hum... About Falco, I think Wolf can KO easier, has better range with his ground moves and his reflector is better. They both have recovery problems. Falco wins on aerials, but it doesn't seems enough to a huge advantage, so I think CG is the biggest factor. Specially if it indeed grants a KO when followed by the spike.

 

[colored blind]

Falco also has aerials on Wolf in general; Falco outprioritizes almost all of Wolf's aerials. Plus, even when not tacked onto the end of a chaingrab, that spike is killer. Falco wins vs Wolves because his off stage game owns recovering Wolves with laser, aerials, and the spike. Plus, Falco's laser provides better pressure on the opponent that Wolf's. Even without the chaingrab, I'd say the matchup is at the very least slightly in Falco's favor.

And about the chaingrab-spike; if playing a good Falco, it's unlikely that you'll survive. Either he edgehogs your Fire Wolf, or you use your double jump and try to recover with a Fire Wolf then, in which case you could probably eat a Bair or another spike.

As for DDD; it's a free 30-something damage from stage to stage, but it's not near as bad to me as Falco because it doesn't end in a spike. If you make a mistake and get grabbed, you can still probably live. If playing a Falco, you probably won't. You've got to watch out for some killer edgeguarding, though. Time your airdodges and recovery options intelligently, otherwise you'll probably end up eating Bairs.

And while we're talking about chaingrabs, we might as well mention Pikachu. Standing Dthrow chaingrab to 30% and running Fthrow chaingrab to %60 can still be a pain, not to mention Pikachu has a decent edgeguarding game. Just throwing that out there.

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

Yes, there is also Pikachu... So, the question is: What to do to avoid these CGs that haunts wolf?

I'd say, from my experience, that shine is the best way to keep them away, so spam it after your hits! That would probably difficult the shieldgrabbing...

What else do you guys think that could be done to try to keep CGs as distant as possible?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Don't get grabbed

 

[-Mars-]

spotdodge every time they dash or after you hit their shield, also space with bairs, fairs, ftilts. If you ever jab their shield do not finish the jab combo or you will get grabbed........just a few things I usually try to do.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yes, there is also Pikachu... So, the question is: What to do to avoid these CGs that haunts wolf?

CP Marth if you don't want to be CG'ed. He can use the 5 invincibility frames of his Up-B at the start of it to escape these CG's so if you don't like being CG'ed (why would you) then CP Marth.

 

[Astrokirby]

Ive played a good DDD, and CGing is a big part of his game. I just WoW/Laz0rz to space, or try an aerial approach (DJump -> FF) then AAA them or FTilt.
Falcos.. Reflect lasers, and try to do more damage to them, and avoid being grabbed at low-%s.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Ive played a good DDD, and CGing is a big part of his game. I just WoW/Laz0rz to space, or try an aerial approach (DJump -> FF) then AAA them or FTilt.

D3 can outspam you with his minions. Which can't be reflected.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Blaster stops the Waddle Dees

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

It's funny that when the game was released everybody were like "DDD is awful...He's too slow". After they found out about CG he became Top Tier! XD

By the way, can blaster stop that spiked Waddle Dee?

 

[Blazer]

Played a little today, well a lot today. 3 hours with the same guy and he picked D3 once against me. I doubt he's all that great with the CG but I was able to get out of it with the jab combo. I doubt this actually works in most games though, he seemed a little noobish.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Just pick up a different character to fight chaingrabbers.

DDD is far too difficult to fight with Wolf.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kash? Is it really you?

Well many ppl have troubles with DDD. Idk why. He's hard but not too hard imho

 

[Ishiey]

Then you've probably never faced a very good DDD. It hurts. A lot. Find the best DDD that you can and play them IRL, a mediocre DDD isn't TOO bad but a pro will be a huge pain.

 

[Fugu15]

Pro DDD is a nightmare. Especially when they can edgeguard the illusion/scar with bairs and grab right away if you get past it and DDD's that mastered the pivot grab are extremely hard to approach. Absurd blaster spam works somewhat, but they can get around that by hiding between waddledees. The penguin has become much harder to fight than falco lately. I would recommend switching to gaw for this fight.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I still find Falco a lot harder

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Blaster stops the Waddle Dees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9NwEc1rDXg 1:40-2:05
Online match with sucky people, but it helps prove a point.

The blaster hits the waddle dee back, but it still sits there and absorbs additional blaster shots. Then D3 can full jump and throw another waddle dee. At the very least, he gets a pretty good laser shield.