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CC jab and other things in the spacie MU

ihasabuket

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
321
I posted this on reddit a few minutes ago but I thought it better to post here. So as some people know when you crouch using the diagonal notch behind you the game lets you jab straight out of a crouch meaning you can CC jab. I never see ganons use this to CC spacie aerials. I wasnt sure on this next part so i need some help from the ganon boards.

If ganon CCs a fox shine what is fox's frame advantage and does ganon have enough time to stuff a waveshine? I looked up fox's framedata and noticed dair has set KB and 9 frames of landing lag. Im not sure about this but i have a feeling you can CC jab fox during his dair landinglag before he can shine. You might be able to shield grab dair before shine comes out though its a tight window. Dair does 2-3% meaning 2-3 frames of shield stun unstaled so that means if he hits the frame before he lands ganon will be in shieldstun the first 2 or 3 frames of foxs landinglag. Grab comes out frames 7-8. If ganon shield grabs frame perfect and fox shines frame perfect your grab will come out on the last frame of his landinglag or his first actionable frame which would be the frame he shines. If your grab comes out on the frame he shines you should be able to grab armor through shine on frame 7 and it will grab him frame 8 during shine endlag. Also there are 1 frame gaps between dair hits so if youre lucky you might get that extra frame of leniency.

Mind you this is all in theory. I havent been able to test this because I dont have a setup at the moment. Itd be great if you guys could test this out im pretty sure the frame data is spot on.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Grab comes out on frames 7-8.

You can SDI out of fox dair AND shine range and grab him after the shine sometimes if he doesn't double shine, which is cool. Jab comes out on frame 3 so any time you grab you could have jabbed, plus some more.

CC jab can beat imperfect nair approaches and many other things. CC grab is so, sooo much better though. Knowing when to use each is a great skill.

Also "CC" is thrown around too loosely. Although your example of the auto crouch +jab is a true CC (quite a few Ganons use it btw), usually these are just ASDI jabs/grabs unless you are actually crouching.
 
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ihasabuket

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
321
Grab doesnt come out frame 4-5 its 7-8 for most characters except the ones that have tethers and DK (http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Ganondorf_frames_11.6.05.txt). I know you can SDI and shield SDI out of dair and its certainly the better option. Honestly not sure why i put that part in. Although for shield SDI its better to roll the control stick theres a thread on shield SDI methods.
What i wanted to know is assuming you didnt SDI, if ganon CCs a shine and fox goes for a waveshine do you have enough time to jab? I also wanted to know if you can CC jab late aerials before they shine (although it would obviously be at low %s).

Can you link me to a set or match where CC jab is used?
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
My B on the frame data idk how I got confused. Don't cc shine and think you can punish. You can't jab. Just don't get hit by it. If you know you'll get hit by it, SDI and buffer something.
 
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