Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion XL

DtJ S2n

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Nov 4, 2009
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INKY
#1

Platforms: Wii, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3
Developer: Papaya Studio
Publisher: Crave Entertainment (US), Deep Silver (UK)
Genre: Fighting (Super Smash Bros-esque)
ESRB: E10+
Release Date: November 15, 2011

Essentially this is Cartoon Network's Smash Bros. clone. It features a Story Mode with up to 4 person co-op as well as a Versus mode that supports up to 4 players or computers in a free-for-all and customizable rules. There are a total of 26 playable characters as well a wide variety of assists and items.

Metagame Information

Okay so I know a lot of you are thinking I must be kidding, but I'm entirely serious. We have a small scene here in Kentucky and a another scene in Australia trying to make this game competitive.

[collapse=Tier List][collapse=KY's Tier List]
Top
Blossom
Aku
Vilgax
Bubbles
Buttercup

High
Grim/K'nuckles
Mojo Jojo
Scottsman
Ben10
Captain Planet
Dexter
Billy+Mandy

Mid

Johnny Bravo
Father
Jack
Him
Tolietnator
Chowder

Low

Flapjack
YB10
Monkey
Numbah 1

Bottom

Kevin11
Hoss Delgado
Mac+Bloo[/collapse][COLLAPSE="Australia's Tier List (first revision)"]
TOP
Aku
Blossom
Buttercup

HIGH
Grim
Young Ben Ten
Ben Ten
Him
Bubbles

MID
Vilgax
Jack
Scottsman
Monkey
Chowder
Johnny

LOW
Mac+Blue
Flapjack
Dexter
Mojo
Ross

BOT
Captain Planet
Father
Toilenator

Somewhere between Mid and Bot -
C. Ternacles
Kev11
Billy and Mandy
Number One
[/COLLAPSE]
[/collapse]
[Collapse=Ruleset]Items and Assists Turned to OFF
Explosion Times/Ultimates/Supers are allowed

Characters are picked first at the start of each game
You can use different characters within the set, changing in between games as you please.

Strike 4 starters in 1221 format.
Play on the remaining stage.
Losing player gets to counterpick, winning player gets TWO bans.
Repeat until 2 matches are won by the same player.

All matches starting from Winners Semi Finals are to be Best of 5.

You can not play on a stage you have already won on, unless the opponent agrees.

[collapse=Stage Lists]
[COLLAPSE="KY Stage List v1"]Starter

Samurai Jack 2
Final Boss 1
Foster's Home 2
Kids Next Door 3
Ben 10 1

Counterpick

Grim Adventures 1
Dexter's Lab 1
Foster's Home 1
Kids Next Door 1
Chowder 1
Chowder 2
Samurai Jack 1
Samurai Jack 3

Banned

Chowder 3
Flapjack 1
Flapjack 2
Flapjack 3
Kids Next Door 2
Powerpuff Girls 1
Powerpuff Girls 2
Foster's Home 3
Dexter's Lab 2
Dexter's Lab 3
Grim Adventures 2
Grim Adventures 3
Ben 10 2[/COLLAPSE]
[collapse=Australia's]Cartoon Network Punchtime Explosion Stage List

STARTER STAGES
Samurai Jack 2
Ben10 1
Ben10 2
Fosters 2
Final Showdown 1

Counterpick
Samurai Jack 1
KND 3
Grim 1
Chowder 1
KND 1
KND 2
Fosters 1
Dexters 1
Dexters 2
Grim 3

EVERYTHING ELSE IS BANNED
[/COLLAPSE][/collapse][/collapse]
[Collapse=Strategy]
[COLLAPSE="Aku -> How to Play and How to Beat"]
Credit is to Splice. May not reflect KY's opinion.

Aku is the current leader in Australia's metagame, able shutdown slow characters altogether, and with some sly comboes into one of the best killmoves in the game. Here are some things to watch out for. His even matchups are Blossom and possibly Ben10/YoungBen/Him maybe. I believe he loses to buttercup as her projectile can be used to camp him, and aside from that, with sheildgrabs and rushdowns she rapes almost as hard as Blossom at close range.

PROS
+ Akus SH laser works similair to falcos in that you can approach with it. However it does not restore enemy UpBs, thus good aim with the laser will gimp a high recovering enemy.
Characters with poor recoveries can be comboed offstage with multiple lasers.
+ Akus SideB charge is very powerful and a good mixup recovery to get to the stage.
+ Akus DownB is uninterruptable. Example; Aku jumps and uses DownB on blossom, Blossom uses Freeze breath as Aku falls. On any other move, blossom would catch Aku and Aku would freeze and be hit away. With DownB (a.k.a the Scorpion) Aku will still freeze, but the hitbox will remain active, getting Blossom for up to 3 hits.
+ Akus camp game and multiple jumps make him very good at abusing space. He does not need to rush down, but he can, but against chars like Blossom, he can avoid pressure that she provides.
+ Akus UpB is an amazing killer, and u can Uair into it, Usmash or Dsmash into it, or if your spacing is great you can catch them in the tiny initial hit of UpB when u start it, picking them up into the air, as you fly up with them, and then spin around, killing off low ceilings at as low as 60%.
+ Aku swears when he dies. See my avatar


CONS
- Akus SideB can be sheildgrabbed, Frozen, or Swallowed. Aerial moves can also hit it from below. Since it is also uncancelable, the opponent can space a smash when it ends. However, this move is still needed at times, and you will need to be smart about it so you don't end up in a worse situation.
- Aku is not very good at close range. Although he can use Down A attacks and the Scorpion, I am quite sure even some Mid Tier characters will beat him at close range. Luckily, your mobility can be abused to avoid these situations, until you can rushdown safely and not be countered.
- Akus UpB has a blindspot in the middle of the starting position (on the ground) and the octopus hitbox (high up in the air). This means if you are only slightly above Aku, and he UpBs, it wont always hit. He can be punished after this. Since UpB and a slowish Usmash are his only upwards defence options, this is the optimal angle to appraoch Aku
- Short characters can duck under lazer, and lazer can be approached through if the opponent is very good at sheilding. Don't fall into timing habits with the laser, sometimes you will need to shoot as soon as u jump, sometimes wait til you fall.
- Akus Ulti is easily avoided once you learn all the hitboxes (the little on behind him, the huge one twice the depicting length on the second fire ball) and the start up lag allows much reaction time. The first hit barely does anything too, as long as u dont let it combo into second hit. It requires a lot of thought to set this up to hit right


Comboes and Strategies
=Dsmash into Uair into UpB, then bait them when they fall for a second UpB, repeat til dead.
=Aku beats an aerial opponent. Keep enemies in the air with platform abuse and pick stages where you can trigger conveyor belts to make your enemy jump, or stages that force enemy to jump due to platform layout. An aerial enemy is an enemy that can fall into your next combo...
=If enemy is grounded Shorthop -> move towards as fall -> lazer before land
=If enemy is in the air Shorthop -> lazer as you rise -> move towards as you land
=The rest of the combo is moving towards as you laser, repeating approrpriately, you can cancel their UpB with lazers more, or down air if they recover low to the edge.


STAGES
+ Counterpicks for Aku
+ Samurai Jack 2
By camping on the right platform all day, its hard for enemies to approach. If they on lower ground, just use standing lazer. When they jump up to your height, spam your SH laser. The middle platform allows you to escape from rushdowns, and trapping people on the top platform will lead to easy UpB kills. Gimping with lazer on this stage is easy as both sides have edges and there arent many platforms, leading to few stage recovery options. Lock them down with lazer. This should always be striked against Aku in the starters, as far as i can tell, unless you are johnny bravo, who can probably camp the platform harder than you.

+BEN10 2
Laser goes across the whole stage here, and you can laser them when they land in poison.
This isnt an amazing counterpick though, as at 100% + the poison walkoff hits them into the air, and you cannot lazer a high recovering opponent. You may be able to catch them with UpB however. The platforms on the right and left also do not help you. Still, if you remain grounded, you can shut down well with lazer here. Just remember this stage can be turned against you.

+Grims 3
Now this is a good Counterpick. When the opponent is on the bottom boat, spam flying sh lazer, then go to the left platform before u run out of jumps. If they try to come from below to hit you, go back to the very top platform and run around to the side. Always be wary of fire. Your aim is to get stage control of the boat. If you do that, you can lockdown with lazer and SideB Dog on the boat, and if they stay on the above platforms, you can kill them with UpB as it hits through. Note that Blossom beats you inside the boat, so against her you want to defensively lazer more, and dont try to retain hold of the boat, she will come and take it back.

+Dexters 1
This is the stage with the walkoffs on both sides. This is a good Cp against Powerpuff girls. Because they cannot charge through the middle well with the big tower that appears there (and also because when the tower isnt there, the gap in ground means they must jump, which means Lazer), they cannot rushdown you, and its never been so easy to gimp with Lazer. grounded lazer also has a big range here, and its angles work well with the stage.

+Dexters 2
Switching on the conveyor belt means the opponent must jump. you can fly and lazer them to death now. Their only hope is to secure the top right platform, but you can camp them from below. Always switch on conveyor belt if you can. Dont switch on the lazer cannon; your lazer is better anyway. This stage is great against characters like Vilgax and Grim, who have poor recoveries and whose defenses would be interrupted by needing to jump. It is also good against Blossom cos she is a shortass and she needs to jump so you can hit her. Characters with good UpBs and no projectile defense like HIM dont really lose any ability if you take them here, though. Also, this stage makes your Ulti useful. Use it on the conveyor belt when they fall on it, and they will be drawn into you.


-Counterpicks Against Aku

-Fosters 2
This stage has two heights, that are always accessible. Thus Aku must go up and down to lazer you, and this means before he can lazer you, he'll need to do other stuff. Thus Aku must use his ground moves, which can be beat. This stage also seems easy to rushdown on.

-Final Showdown 1
-Akus lazer on this flatstage is poor, and the platforms dont help him camp at all, the way they are placed. Aku still needs to play keepaway, but you cant shut chars down with lazer anymore, and the lazer doesnt stretch the whole stage. As such, Aku can be approached from above, with other characters using the platforms to keepaway better than him, and using them to approach as well. Remember though, if you are fat with a bad recovery, this stage hurts you more than Aku anyway.

-KND 1
-Because of the doorways, your lazer gets interrupted by little blocks. It's pretty unuseable, and UpB wont kill anyone at early percents in the middle because of the roof. This stage requires a totally different playstyle for Aku and the Powerpuff Girls will lay the beatdown on you.

-Fosters 1
The platform is bad for you and good for others
The flatground makes it hard to lazer short characters (but it can still be done) and good rolling and sheilding will approach you
If you get stuck near the walk offs, you'll feel a lot of pressure
You can trap people on the platform to UpB them though, which kills well here.


INDIVIDUAL MATCHUPS AGAINST AKU
AND HOW TO BEAT HIM
- coming soon
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Blossom - How to Play and How to Beat"]
Credit is to Redact. May not reflect KY's or my opinion.

Blossom seems like the current king of rushdown. She has little lag on almost everything she does and has solid priority, she is able to close gaps easily and seems to behave like a semi-floaty heavy. She does not have any obvious bad matchups atm, but her hardest (yet still even) seems to be aku or buttercup.


PROS
+ Her freeze breath (neutral B) is flat out rediculous. It's next to instant, has good range, has a long lasting hitbox, freezes people in place long enough to combo them with another move after, can loop into itself (to an extent and is % dependant) and can be used as an edge guard. This move also seems to beat almost every single charge move (with the exception of Him so far).
+ I'ts really hard to camp blossom. Her charge (side b) is good at closing gaps. whilst it does not kill nor provide amazing%. It has an ok distance, is very fast, has little lag and is very easy to combo after into freeze. It also can be used to recover.
+ Her edge guard game is solid. Her thunder (down b) is a lot like pikachu's thunder but buffed. The thunder ignores the stage and will go through any platform/ceiling and is amazing at edge guarding. The move also has much less lag than pikachu's and starts up faster. This combined with freeze makes quick work of almost any recovery.
+ Her recovery is huge. Her flight (up b) lets her fly round the stage freely at a very fast rate for a lengthy period of time. The only way blossom dies is by either losing her flight or being killed outright. Have fun flying around the whole stage before landing.


CONS
- None of her A moves stand out. Her smashes and tilts seem normal, along with all of her air moves. Whilst this isn't that bad, you don't have a particular kill move to rely on apart from down+b.
- She has no projectile. Whilst she can close gaps, you're going to always be forced to approach. Playing against campy characters can easily become a game of chasey.
- She cannot kill upwards too easily. Being taken to stages with walls can make it that you wont be getting kills until 150%+


How to play:

Her charge -> freeze game is almost exactly like falco dair -> shine game. It combos so easily it's rediculous and combos into itself repeatedly at low%. You're looking at doing combos like Charge -> freeze -> freeze -> Charge -> Freeze -> Freeze -> fair at the start of each stock.
You edge guard with a combination of freeze and thunder. If they come under you do freeze, if they go high you do thunder.
Her air moves can easily be used for combos aswell, doing charge -> freeze -> sh rising fair -> falling uair -> freeze once landed is very possible aswell.
Make sure you keep pressure up on people, she literally has no projectile so you cannot give your opponent space to get out his own projectiles.


Stages
+ Counterpicks for Blossom
+ Fosters 2
The small stage and layout not only makes it hard for projectile characters to get anything going, it also makes landing her thunder as an edge guard very simple.

+Ben10 2
Again the somewhat smaller stage + the platform layout makes landing her thunder simple along with closing in on enemies.

+Final Showdown 1
Same story as ben 10, platform layout is perfect for thunder along with stage size being somewhat smaller.


- Counterpicks Against Blossom
- Dexters 2
The sattelite in the middle of the stage shafts any approach that she has, she is forces to come over the top against almost every characater and the stage has small killzones, making her recovery advantage null here as she will die quickly.

- Fosters 1
The walls make killing off the side impossible unless theyre already in a doorway, and the platform layout doesnt really help either. Youll struggle to approach anyone camping in the doorway here as its a walkoff and youll get grab -> backthrown easily if mess up your approach.

[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Grim - How to play and How to beat"]
Credit is to Splice. May not reflect KY's opinion.

Grim bears resemblance to Marth, as his Fair can be used to space similairly and his spacing game and range are brilliant. However, his SideB and his B projectile are so good that his metagame so far relies on landing these moves. SideB has some of the best knockback in the game, and it's massive range above and infront of you makes it more than situational. His poor recovery ability lets him down, allowing him to be gimped with ease by Aku and Buttercup. Against enemies without fast projectiles, Grims own B projectile and his SideB will tear them apart.

PROS
+ SideB and its amazing range and knockback make it useful for killing, edgeguarding, and as a keepaway spacing move
+ Spacing Fair (which is much faster than SideB) allows you to get in close enough to land your SideB, which has enough range to probably still hit them when they roll away.
+ Your ability to approach from above is quite decent, with fast dair and dtilts, and as such, against other Grims or against Aku, you actually have a method of approach.
+DownB and Utilt, while full of endlag, are powerful defenses if they hit. As long as you can time and predict, these are great defensive assets
+ Neutral B projectile does 10% with each hit. It is also incredibly fast and if you hit with one projectile, the next one will hit before Aku has time to SH Lazer. You can also use this projectile to cancel UpBs like Aku does with lazer.


CONS
- Your recovery is subpar, and one of the easiest to gimp in the game. Your Jumps arent big either.
- SideB has endlag. If SideB is sheilded, then many moves can hit you out of its endlag. However, remember that SideB has much range, and if spaced, their moves probably wont reach you afterwards. But watch out for this.
- Ulti is somewhat hard to hit with. Although there is no startup lag like Akus, it has a smaller area that it does the powerful hit. You should be able to get some damage out of it though.
- Whilst your projectile is one of the best, Grim has more trouble getting in other projectiles due to poor air speed. For example, Grim might be on a platform spamming B projectile against Buttercup, but she can fly up, and maybe get in close on him. Buttercup might be on a platform spamming her projectile, and Grim is too slow to get past it easily. Grim needs to make use of platforms and stage layout to get close to a projectile camping enemy.


Comboes and Strategies
= Use Fair to space against non projectile enemies, so when you get close to use SideB, you can hit them with Fair first for a more guaranteed SideB, and also Fair in general lets you push into their defenses.
= If you sheild a laggy or uncancellable move, more often than not you can SideB them out of sheild. If it is a charge move like Akus dog or Hims Lobster, wait for them to go to the other side of your sheild and then SideB them.
=Aku camps on higher platforms. Conversely, Grim camps on lower platforms. With SideBs aerial range, it is incredibly hard to approach Grim when he's sitting in a hole with SideB. Of course, Grim can still force an approach with SH projectiles from his little hole. Thus, stages with lower platforms on the edge of the stage, like the Bus, are a Grims best friend, and they have to jump offstage to come from behind. And if you SideB them while they are already offstage.... they are dead.
=Grim can approach exceptionally well from above. Id suggest approaching diagonally, as most Usmashes only go straight up, so a diagonal approach will go in their blindspot.
=If you are approaching from above, sometimes instead of using your usual great aerial attacks, do a fake out and just use SideB when you fall low enough. It stalls you in the air and whatever they may have been planning will be mistimed. Another SideB will then probably hit them.

Remember, most of what you do is all in the aim so that you can get close enough, and be safe enough, to hit with SideB. This move pwn n00b so funny


STAGES
+Counterpicks for Grim
+ Ben10 2
This stage is small and has no edges, just the amazing poison-ground walkoff. This means projectiles wont be gimping you and you can recover high if the poison hits you up (or you can jump if possible, as the poison damage is unwanted). Your projectile is hard to avoid here and your upwards attacks will make the platforms a danger zone if your sitting under them. As such, your defensive game here is impeccable. Your SideB will certainly send people onto the poison, and if they bounce up, you can use the platforms to hit them with SideB in the air, which should kill them.

+KND 2
The Bus. Grim can sit on the lower ground here and use SideB. The only way he can be approached is if the enemy jumps over him and goes offstage. You will have to be smart now, but if you hit them with one SideB after they do this, they are pretty much dead. While Grim players (like me) would not want people to know our favourite stages (as theyd get banned) this stage is too good. Ban this stage against Grim everytime. You have 2 bans so you can choose preferences with the 2nd ban, but I don't see Grim losing here. Even if they get control of the lower platform, SideB will still hit you if Grim is on the middle ground, so he can get you out of his camp position if you ever try to take it. SH projectiles force the enemy to approach Grim too, so camping can be done even when losing.

+ Fosters 1
Your SideB will instakill if you hit someone who is partially in the walkoff zone, and although the middle platform is a nuisance, anyone trying to approach you through your lazer will be very telegraphed. Allowing you to react with DownB and Usmash defensively, or any other suitable move, even, more SideB. Remember, like Marth, Grim doesn't want to be above his opponent, so don't try to hang around on the middle platform. Stay grounded and abuse your massive range and good SH height.

+Dexters 1
This stage with the big tower in the middle is good for you as the poison (and at some points the normal walkoff) do not let you get gimped easy, while your SideB will still kill as you don't need to gimp with SideB. One or two hits of it should flat out kill at 60% near the edges of the stage. Staying on the side platforms, your defensive game is amazing, and if the opponent plays defensive too, the tower in the middle allows you to swoop down from above, which if done quickly will grant you the pressure on them.

+Grim 1
This stage is good because you are safe below platforms, and they arent safe ever. You can approach them no matter where they are, as long as you can get past any defensive projectiles they are doing. The fact this stage uses walkoffs not edges is also good for you as your terrible UpB wont need to come into play. A very solid pick for Grim.


-Counterpicks against Grim

-Samurai 2
The edges on both sides allow you to be gimped easily. The middle platform can be used to trap you by characters like Aku (so that Aku can get you with the UpB) and your SideB wont reach characters camping on the higher ground on the right. You cannot really camp exceptionally here, and the middle platform grants the enemy safe ground while you projectile spam, allowing them to approach you in their own time, rather than pressuring them. Plus, you are always vulnerable to gimps unless you stay in middle, which means you may always be under pressure on this stage.

-Ben10 1
The start transformation allows for easy gimping on Grim. You may be able to camp the very bottom leftern edge though, but thats not the worst part. The 2nd and longer transformation of this stage gives the enemy lots of space. Grim doesnt like space. They can avoid your projectile and approach you, or force you to approach, as they please, with the many platforms and very long stage. Plus, there are edges, so you can be gimped, and your UpB sucks. Any other projectile character can **** you here, and you cannot put on the pressure like normal.

-Dexters 2
The conveyor belt may force you to jump, stoping you from camping. The safe place is the top right platform. Unfortunately from Grim, he is not the best when sitting on a platform above people, and you cannot stay in this position safely. You will always be forced to move. If you have stage control this place is fine, but it's just that stage control is easy to take away frrom you with a flick of the conveyor belt. Also, there are edges, so you can be gimped with ease.

-KND 3
The moonbase. Again, it is easy to gimp Grim, except, especially easy here as the floor is tiny, but there are platforms everywhere. The enemy can safely avoid SideB and B projectile, and abuse the platforms against you. Grim can be vulnerable if he hangs around the platforms too long, and his projectile cannot be abused very well, yet he can be gimped by anyone who can use the platforms to reach out and hit him as he UpBs. You wouldnt need a projectile to gimp Grim here.


Individual Matchups Coming Soon.

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Vilgax - How to play and How to Beat"]
Coming Soon
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="HIM - How to play and How to beat"]
Credit is to Splice. May not reflect KY's opinion.

Him is a very solid character, but has rather poor tools for approaching. Due to lack of a projectile, Him also fails to actively camp, although his run away game is exceptional. In other words, almost no other character can avoid pressure like Him, due to his exceptional UpB. Him has some hardhitting moves and good kill moves, it simply takes skill to land them. Him takes more effort to get hits on other characters, but the reward is outstanding. Sort of like Donkey Kong in Brawl. But his attacks work completely differently.

PROS
+ Hims SideB does 50% in one hit. It is also uninterruptable by any moves other than blossoms Ice Breath and possibly Sheild Grab (as far as we have discovered) once you get roughly 20 frames in. This move also gives off heaps of gems, which u can collect easily to build up your ulti.
+ Hims B is faster than the sideB and is a powerful kill move, although it is slow, but it can certainly be set up. Usmash and Fsmash are faster kills if needed anyway, they just a bit weaker.
+ HIMs UpB is almost as good as blossoms as far as distance, except it is harder to gimp with projectiles. As such, HIM may be able to actually safely recover under fire from characters such as Aku, which is very beneficial to your game. You can also use it to get away from rushdowns
+ Due to the previously mentioned UpB, you can escape rushdowns almost indefinitely, unless they catch up to you in the brief moment when you need to land with it.


CONS
- HIMs rushdown options are subpar as your SideB is incredibly telegraphed (although hard to stop) and your A moves are decent, but not incredibly reliable.
- Whilst you collect gems like a ****, when you use them for your ulti, you may not be able to hit with your ulti at all. HIMS ulti takes incredible prediction to use, but even still is slow enough that a smart person will use the safe zones he sees and basically he will take 0 damage
- HIM has no counter to rushdown play. He can defensively neutral B, which is certainly good, but to escape a combo all you can do is UpB. This is good to escape, but dont expect to punish any attacks, whilst other characters will be doing that to you
- No projectile means that even if you are spacing and playing defensive with your tricky B physics and A attacks, you cannot force an approach


Comboes and Strategies
=HIM seems to play campy (as far as we know) and rather than rushing down when there is a gap, it's more like you wait til you can safely start up a SideB. Camp with B and aerials and smashes, and if you can SideB without them cancelling the vulnerability at the start, then do it. One SideB is 50%. This is what you do.

I will do stages later, but as for Comboes and Strategies, that really is all I have for now, because that's how I played and I havent experimented much yet.

[/COLLAPSE][/collapse]

Huge thanks to Splice and the rest of the Australian players for all this information. I'll try and keep this updated and add KY's information soon as we get everything hammered out.
 
Joined
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ClaireDiviner
#2
Hey, I have a question:

I'm actually thinking about getting this game for the PS3 (mostly for trophies). Now the Wii version, is it exactly the same as the other two consoles, and if so, is it compatible with the GC controller and controls like Melee/Brawl?

Excellent job with the info, by the way. I plan on maining Blossom and having Aku and Captain Planet as secondaries.
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
Joined
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#3
All the versions are the same to my knowledge, there are no console exclusive characters or anything like that. Graphics might be a bit different or something, I don't know there. The Wii version does have GC controller compatibility and you can even change your controls. With gamecube controller it controls very similar to Brawl. No tap jump though, you can't turn it on either.

Blossom is freaking bonkers. She really is a combo machine, she can 0-death in so many ways. Planet's also a serious combo monster, in fact I'd argue he can combo harder than Blossom but Blossom's combo's are easier to start, easier in general and her combo finisher is outrageously powerful. Aku is just annoying mostly imo, but he has really strong juggles.
 
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ClaireDiviner
#4
All the versions are the same to my knowledge, there are no console exclusive characters or anything like that. Graphics might be a bit different or something, I don't know there. The Wii version does have GC controller compatibility and you can even change your controls. With gamecube controller it controls very similar to Brawl. No tap jump though, you can't turn it on either.

Blossom is freaking bonkers. She really is a combo machine, she can 0-death in so many ways. Planet's also a serious combo monster, in fact I'd argue he can combo harder than Blossom but Blossom's combo's are easier to start, easier in general and her combo finisher is outrageously powerful. Aku is just annoying mostly imo, but he has really strong juggles.
Ahaha! Nice. By the way, what's tap jump again?
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
Joined
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Messages
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#5
Not sure if you're serious there. Tap jump is when you press up on the Control Stick, you jump. I'm kinda glad this game doesn't have it, though it would've been nice as an option.
 
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ClaireDiviner
#6
Not sure if you're serious there. Tap jump is when you press up on the Control Stick, you jump. I'm kinda glad this game doesn't have it, though it would've been nice as an option.
Oh, so that's what that was. I rarely use it, unless I'm using specific characters, like Ganondorf, but I can see where its exclusion can be a slight problem. Still, it wouldn't really bother me.
 

asianaussie

Smash Debater
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
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#10
captain planet seems pretty terrible since he can't get in at all vs some characters

he does have captain falcon's melee nair and fair though (but without knee sweetspot i think)
 

DtJ S2n

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#11
Captain Planet low tier? **** this, I'm outta here.
We here in Kentucky think he's high tier. The metagame has yet to develop much, so we'll see
captain planet seems pretty terrible since he can't get in at all vs some characters

he does have captain falcon's melee nair and fair though (but without knee sweetspot i think)
This is all true. He really is Melee Falcon. He doesn't have the Knee sweetspot or a sourspot, it's strong the entire duration. The knockback on Knee isn't quite enough to be the ridiculous combo finisher of Captain Falcon, but it's outrageously good for combos in general.

His approach isn't the best but when he gets in, he gets in. Paired with a huge distance and very versatile recovery, he's a very solid pick.
 

Splice

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#16
Timic can i come over and we'll replay some gameplay vids and u can upload them on Youtube?

Sold2, because you play Knuckles and Timic does, you two should discuss strategy :p

Also I'd like to edit that tier list soon. That is a Day1 tier list after 15 hours straight play.
After a few weeks opinions on some have changed.
Although I'd still put Captain Planet pretty low :p

idk when ill finish this Vilgax guide, I havent had a chance to play in the past week

Cheers to you for making the thread Sold :)
 

DtJ S2n

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#17
approach seems to matter a lot in this game though

esp with bloody aku

johnny bravo's nair is hilarious (from the two games ive played using him)
Bravo's nair is really good is the worst part. Like backwards n-air > sh n-air > etc. is outrageous pressure and sometimes a really frustrating combo. I don't feel that approach is as important as you all think. Shields are not particularly good in this game, while Rolls are universally incredible. It's not difficult to start something off of rolling behind an enemy's aerial or whatever.
as a knuckles main he's pretty much wario but with best aerials ever, too bad his punch time sucks
I relate him more to Link + airspeed than Wario. Also yeah I can discuss some K'nuckles strategy.

K'nuckles' strength is stage control. As soon as he pushes someone into a bad spot, he can keep them there and cash in on their positioning immediately. He also has a lot of ways to easily get people into these positions. F-air and F-smash hit like purely horizontal and are extremely fast. Random statues into either is easy combo. Throw > Set Statue(s) is an insane trap. If they land into the statues, you get a free f-smash. If they jump away you chase them and they have to land near the edge, where K'nuckles becomes a monster. K'nuckles edgeguard is also really strong with statues f-air and f-smash.

He's really a hugely momentum based character. And really he only needs his f-air f-smash and neutral b. Also he has probably the worst recovery in the game. His n-air and u-air act as really silly combo tools if you ever get in that close

K'nuckles also has extremely strong resets, not so much combos. For regular combos he can do like f-air > grab at low percents, f-air > f-air if you're really fast/depending on percent, f-air > f-smash. Anything longer for a legitimate combo requires really wonky statue combos which are difficult to do. Hitting someone into a statue doesn't necessarily stun them, when they're hit hard enough they have a hitbox on them(think of free for alls).

K'nuckles is extremely strong on certain stages. Samurai 1, for example. Keep in mind his outrageous horizontal abilities and how much space his statues control. On Samurai 1 if you get pushed under the bell tower, which isn't difficult, you more or less lose.

At first glance you'd think K'nuckles would be weak vs Projectiles and high ranged characters. For most projectiles, K'nuckles has a very easy answer in his f-air to clank the projectile and move on with his life (exception being lasers and moves that are actually physical like Candy Cane or Erwin Toss. Ben 10's fireballs are also particularly difficult to smack and high risk). Grim is the main scary high range character. It's important to know that Grim's Side-b is clankable. K'nuckle's d-air is a good move to clank this with. Personally I feel like K'nuckles hardest match-ups are characters with higher range than him and a good way to get out of pressure. Grim isn't too big of a problem because K'nuckles gimps him HARD. Aku is hard to approach but absolutely CRUMPLES when K'nuckles gets a f-air to even land on his shield. Tolietnator is almost really scary for K'nuckles, but Tolietnator's f-air is too slow while K'nuckles f-air is too fast, gives K'nuckles an edge in spacing. Scotsman though? I haven't played that match-up but I really think Scotsman would destroy K'nuckles.

One day I'll take all this and make a more legit analysis.
 

Splice

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#18
Sheilds being terrible and rolls being amazing is a good pick up. I figured that out fast, it's important to keep in mind.

This is why when i camp with akus lazer i use platforms and higher ground as much as i can, because if i stay SH lazer on the ground, rolls will reach me eventually and im simply not capitalizing on the abilities i have.

Toilenator has so much trouble killing and getting out of pressure I don't know if any amount of spacing ability can make up for it.

Your summary of K'nuckles agrees with a lot of what ive picked up
: Does so well when he gets in close range
: Fair is a great projectile defense, unless vs transcendant projectiles
: Fair and Fsmash stage control

Your Grim comments made me laugh so much!
Bahaha it's funny to think that after all the **** Grim has done in our scene no-one has figured out you can clank with the Side-B! Can you safely punish afterwards?
I have found out in the Grim Ditto, that if one Grim SideBs and the other sheilds, the sheilding grim can fair or SideB afterwards, and other characters can punish it if they sheild the SideB.
But yea, haven't clanked yet, as much as i spam it. Projectiles beat grim pretty good though, perhaps if we can get around SideB so it stops being the best move, he may drop on our tier list...

Still his spacing game is amazing and you can simply Fair trap them into a SideB i guess...

btw Sold
idk how i feel about Samurai 1
The fish that randomly decides you shouldnt come back to stage and the bell
Very big match turners
Of course the bell can be controlled. We still have it legal here, and it is one of my favourite stages, but a lot of funny **** happens there :p
 

DtJ S2n

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#19
Sheilds being terrible and rolls being amazing is a good pick up. I figured that out fast, it's important to keep in mind.
Advance techs: roll through entire punch time explosions. Dexter Laser is a good example, you can just roll through it. You can actually roll INTO it and then just keep on rolling around like an idiot. The "good" PTEs are ones you can combo into easily or are just unrollable. *cough* VILGAX *cough*

This is why when i camp with akus lazer i use platforms and higher ground as much as i can, because if i stay SH lazer on the ground, rolls will reach me eventually and im simply not capitalizing on the abilities i have.
Makes sense but I have trouble imagining what stages this is good on. Aku's underside is weak, so you can't give that. Camping with Aku laser is kinda weird. Like it's really frustrating but I'd actually saying you're helping your opponent overall, depending on who we're talking about. Aku laser does I think 4% per hit, and you're giving them PTE crystals.

Toilenator has so much trouble killing and getting out of pressure I don't know if any amount of spacing ability can make up for it.
His up-b is decent vs pressure, it's extremely quick and goes a great distance upwards. Stage dependent I guess. It can work as a kill move too. He's also pretty nasty(lol) about gimping. And his PTE is freaking great. He's not incredible but he's a viable character.

Your summary of K'nuckles agrees with a lot of what ive picked up
: Does so well when he gets in close range
: Fair is a great projectile defense, unless vs transcendant projectiles
: Fair and Fsmash stage control
The more I play K'nuckles the more broken I think he is. He's the most developed character in our metagame probably, but he's looking high-tier to me. His momentum is just too powerful and too easy to get.

Bahaha it's funny to think that after all the **** Grim has done in our scene no-one has figured out you can clank with the Side-B! Can you safely punish afterwards?
I actually don't know the frames on this. I'm assuming it puts you around even frames, and well most characters on even frames close up to Grim is a good spot to be.

But yea, haven't clanked yet, as much as i spam it. Projectiles beat grim pretty good though, perhaps if we can get around SideB so it stops being the best move, he may drop on our tier list...
Grim's really straightforward and really good =r. I also don't particularly understand how clanking works in this game. Some b-moves are clankable but I know that others are not.

btw Sold
idk how i feel about Samurai 1
The fish that randomly decides you shouldnt come back to stage and the bell
Very big match turners
Of course the bell can be controlled. We still have it legal here, and it is one of my favourite stages, but a lot of funny **** happens there :p
It's not a neutral but it's legitimate enough to be a CP imo. I don't know the fishes timing. The fish may or may not be random. I kinda feel like it's on a timer. The big thing is that both you and your opponent know exactly where the fish is going to spawn, how fast it's going to go, and how hard it hits. It's really relate-able to Yoshi's Island's support ghost in brawl.

I've been playing Buttercup a lot lately. She's really good but surprisingly difficult. She goes SO DEEP. Been playing Delgado too. He goes really deep too but he's really freaking bad lmao.

also I don't know if I ever mentioned how K'nuckles PTE works. If you're ontop of them when you activate the super, they get stunned. Statue into PTE is a real combo I believe. Good vs helpless opponents since it's more or less a 1 frame start-up.
 

Tyranitarphantom

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#20
Makes sense but I have trouble imagining what stages this is good on. Aku's underside is weak, so you can't give that. Camping with Aku laser is kinda weird. Like it's really frustrating but I'd actually saying you're helping your opponent overall, depending on who we're talking about. Aku laser does I think 4% per hit, and you're giving them PTE crystals.
Aku's laser doesn't knock any crystals out

His up-b is decent vs pressure, it's extremely quick and goes a great distance upwards. Stage dependent I guess. It can work as a kill move too. He's also pretty nasty(lol) about gimping. And his PTE is freaking great. He's not incredible but he's a viable character.
Sums him up well. His fair can do so many neat things, but nothing phenomenal

The more I play K'nuckles the more broken I think he is. He's the most developed character in our metagame probably, but he's looking high-tier to me. His momentum is just too powerful and too easy to get.
He's high tier, no doubt. He tends to get outcamped really well on some stages, though. He's great on small stages, like Ben 10 2, but on larger stages like Samurai 2, he's easily camped by the likes of Ben 10, Mojo Jojo, and Buttercup.

It's not a neutral but it's legitimate enough to be a CP imo. I don't know the fishes timing. The fish may or may not be random. I kinda feel like it's on a timer. The big thing is that both you and your opponent know exactly where the fish is going to spawn, how fast it's going to go, and how hard it hits. It's really relate-able to Yoshi's Island's support ghost in brawl.
It has it's problems, but I think it's a fine stage. A stage I'm more interested in is Foster's 2. I think it's a fine small stage, but most of the people I've played with john about it
 
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#24
Here's five examples of how i am with some characters.

I don't always use Vilgax. but when i do, my performance is balanced somewhere between "beast" and "alright". the down Square move (i have it for PS3) is pretty effective for close enemies, his recovery is great. don't get me wrong, i'm not half bad with him, i just don't use him much.

I'm a little more experienced with Father, there's just something i like about characters who control fire. his recovery is very straightforward, his side-Square (like Fox and Falco before him) is excellent. and i like activating his PTE when i have a majority of opponents nearby in 4-player matches.

Chowder is one of my better characters. 4 jumps, powerful specials... something i usually do when i have the PTE bar at maximum is get behind every other opponent and let the ultimate attack loose. my only complaint is a pretty common one, the fact that side-special is inhale while standard is throwing kimchi forward. minor i know, but it's just confusing, especially when you're watching vids of the game.

Captain K'Nuckles. shortest description i can think of: easy to grasp, strong specials, i like to use the sittin' muscle smash from high above and just divebomb the opposition, sneak in to use the PTE at inescapably close range.

By far, my worst character is Aku. i'm decent with him, but i can't seem to get to using him at the high level you guys say he is. i think the problem is the fact that he's kind of slow in some attacks coupled with the fact that i don't really use him that much. and yes, it does indeed sound like he's saying "****! into the Pit of Hate!" when he dies, you're right XD

also, if anyone here has a youtube account, is it possible that they could rip the soundtrack and post it? i can't seem to find it anywhere i look...
 

Splice

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#25
@ Sold2: Since you'll be shorthopping with Aku while you camp you can get away if they go from below. Its useful on stages where the platforms dont have another platform below them, example KND 3, Samurai Jack 2 (on the right) and much more. Anyway the laser has knockback, so when you camp with Aku you're kind of camping to get the kill, and you can move towards them on your platform and gimp them while still camping due to massive range.

We did find out though today that airdodges (namely K'nuckles, idk if every airdodge is the same or not) **** akus lazer pretty hard, making him less god tier. Knucles Nair is beast, he's pretty developed here too because Tim, who is probably our most active player, uses him solely. I'd put him in between Aku and Blossom, or perhaps below Blossom, in the highest tier. When the first tier list was made, we had not played Tim yet and K'nuckles was only briefly used, so i find it easy to accept we were quite wrong with his position.

Buttercup is pretty deep. I think that if i wanted to develop one character it would be her.

After playing K'nuckles with Vilgax today i believe everything i know is wrong and i am not going to be writing a guide for Vilgax. I still think he's good, but against characters with such good shut downs like K'nuckles and Aku i don't want to touch him anymore.

K'nuckles stun from the PTE is easily escapable, you just rotate the analog and then jump away.
We thought it was useless for ages, but Tim has found out how to use the PTE to change the outcome of matches. When the opponent is offstage without momentum to put them back on it, he uses the PTE. When the cinematic ends, I am stunned, and i simply fall straight down and die (on some stages you can cancel the stun and UpB back up though). Also when I use upb to recover, he'll use it on the platform or edge where my UpBs trajectory is going, so regardless of stun I will caught in the big explosion.

Tim is better than me now :( I'm #2 lol
 
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#26
K'nuckles stun from the PTE is easily escapable, you just rotate the analog and then jump away.
We thought it was useless for ages, but Tim has found out how to use the PTE to change the outcome of matches. When the opponent is offstage without momentum to put them back on it, he uses the PTE. When the cinematic ends, I am stunned, and i simply fall straight down and die (on some stages you can cancel the stun and UpB back up though). Also when I use upb to recover, he'll use it on the platform or edge where my UpBs trajectory is going, so regardless of stun I will caught in the big explosion.
Wow, i didn't even think of that! i should probably try it out sometime...

Buttercup is pretty deep. I think that if i wanted to develop one character it would be her.
yeah, but my best character of all 3 powerpuff girls is undeniably Bubbles. given she has 4 jumps while Blossom & Buttercup have 2, her PTE has her shoot lasers while flying, and her up-special seems to be uninterruptable (at least i haven't seen any instance where it's stopped in it's tracks)

also, something i've noticed involving Mac & Bloo... for their PTE, the game describes Bloo's transformation using Bloonan the Bararian, but the model was based off the Bloo Superdude. critical research failure? i don't know, but it's just a stupid thing i noticed that nobody else in the right mind seems to have noticed.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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#27
Man, someone explain to me why Dexter isn't retarded. I'm having way too much fun being the best in the area with him and Johnny.

Scotsman vs. Grim is not fun at all.
 

Splice

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#32
Scottsman vs Grim - no fun for who?

I love them both, I think they're both really viable but I dont know who would **** who.

The reason we have Ben10 high is because the charge is amazing and something else that i forget.
The reasone Young Ben is high is because he has lots of fast moves, can defend well if he's above people and one has a great projectile (could be Ben10 with the projectile i forget)
They have good recoveries as well if i recall corectly.

No one likes them here either, we only played them to see if we could get a good idea of how good they were. I dont think we overestimated them, I think we were quite right, but perhaps a few characters below them on the Aus tier list were heftily underrated.

At the same time, the Ben's havent been played much as i said and if you tried I'm sure you could realise something that made them far less viable in general, or perhaps a lot better.
 

DtJ S2n

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#33
Ben 10 is good, Young Ben 10 is kind of garbage.

Ben 10 has a good projectile, his side-b is essentially a moving Ike f-smash, and his up-b is entirely nonsense that I don't even know how to describe. Young Ben 10 has his side-b which is really good and also really strong. YB10's f-smash is similar to K'nuckles, except a bit slower and also a really nasty cooldown. YB10's only redeeming factor is side-b, and that's only enough to pull him out of bottom and put him into low imo.

edit: KY will have our tier list drafted up after the next time we play. There's a couple characters we still need to place and move around.
 

The_SMILE

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#35
I approve. I've had interest in this game for awhile. But I haven't gotten to play yet. How is it? Lets have a side tourney for it at the next smash tourney in Ky?
 

DtJ S2n

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#36
I approve. I've had interest in this game for awhile. But I haven't gotten to play yet. How is it? Lets have a side tourney for it at the next smash tourney in Ky?
The scene should develop a bit before we start putting money on this. Too big of a skill gap.

Also we found something worrying. Aku's short hopped laser on Ben10 2 does 21% instead of 3.5% for apparently no freaking reason. Don't know why it does but Aku on that stage... Actually I'm sure you guys can imagine.

Also similarly to smash I figured out that moves don't necessarily do whole numbers. Aku's laser can do either 3% or 4%, which is really odd. It's actually doing 3 and a fraction of a percent. I'm just assuming it's around 3.5%.

I've been playing a lot of Him and Captain Planet, who are very interesting. We'll have our tier list out soon and then we can discuss things.
 

Tyranitarphantom

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#37
Tier list for KY is being discussed this evening.

I'd like to note that, as S2 said, there is a major glitch with Aku's lasers on Ben 10 2, which results in the stage being banned in Kentucky from here on out (we formerly considered it neutral)
 

DtJ S2n

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#38
Alright we did it. If anybody wants some elaboration we got your backs.

Top

Blossom
Aku
Vilgax
Bubbles
Buttercup

High

Grim/K'nuckles
Mojo Jojo
Scottsman
Ben10
Captain Planet
Dexter
Billy+Mandy

Mid

Johnny Bravo
Father
Jack
Him
Tolietnator
Chowder

Low

Flapjack
YB10
Monkey
Numbah 1

Bottom

Kevin11
Hoss Delgado
Mac+Bloo
 

#HBC | Ryker

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#39
Man, you've gotta talk stages with me, bro. THAT needs a lot more work than tier lists.

Also, you've got most people to a position I can agree with. I still don't think that Mojo is that high and Vilgax blindsided the **** out of me. Outside of that, no real issues.

We've been messing with different characters down here and I'll say that the three next slated for some R&D are Flapjack, Monkey, and Chowder. I can't really tell you where any of them should fall outside of general theorycraft location.
 

DtJ S2n

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#40
Man, you've gotta talk stages with me, bro. THAT needs a lot more work than tier lists.
Then first off, what do we do about Ben10 2? Aku's short hopped laser there does 21% if you didn't see. We have a decent list worked out but without Ben10 2 as a starter it kind of kills it. Just saying something like "Aku can't play on Ben10 2" is the simplest thing to say but also a surgical ruling and not sure if we want to have that.

I still don't think that Mojo is that high and Vilgax blindsided the **** out of me. Outside of that, no real issues.
I was thinking Vilgax was only like high tier up until yesterday. TTar picked up some interesting things with him. Vilgax's only weakness is that he's tall as hell. Everything else about him is exceptional, and he has the best PTE in the game. Not to mention he just happens to hit a ton of freaking orbs out of opponents.

I'll say that the three next slated for some R&D are Flapjack, Monkey, and Chowder.
Agreed. We've only played them enough to get a feel for their movesets and their match-ups on the top tiers.
 
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