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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD

dRevan64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
355
Location
Philly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_Ljkph7q8g
0:52 is that possible for humans to do? regardless. what is marth doing in the first place?
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong for sure but it looks like he edgecancels the first fair on sheik's shield, and then doublejumps, fastfalls, fairs and edgecancels again another 2 times. The animation barely plays because of how close to the ground the fair comes out.
It is possible but would be insanely difficult.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_Ljkph7q8g
0:52 is that possible for humans to do? regardless. what is marth doing in the first place?
If your fair hits an opponent as soon as you begin to drop through a platform, you will do what is known as a platform cancel which causes you to immediately land back on top of the platform. That IS humanly possible, but in the video they are actually ledge cancelling platform cancelled aerials, which is probably not. I say probably because if you showed someone Perfect Dark even a couple years ago they probably wouldn't have believed it was real. >_>
 

dRevan64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
355
Location
Philly
If your fair hits an opponent as soon as you begin to drop through a platform, you will do what is known as a platform cancel which causes you to immediately land back on top of the platform. That IS humanly possible, but in the video they are actually ledge cancelling platform cancelled aerials, which is probably not. I say probably because if you showed someone Perfect Dark even a couple years ago they probably wouldn't have believed it was real. >_>
Yup, I knew someone would correct me. WOOPS.
 

.K1

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
89
Location
SoCal
Could I get some input on Marth v Peach and Marth v Samus? Curious how to deal with them. It feels like I have no other way to start anything except for landing a grab. It feels like they can CC everything for free.
 

Crawfish

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
223
Location
Craw land
3DS FC
3540-1393-8146
If your fair hits an opponent as soon as you begin to drop through a platform, you will do what is known as a platform cancel which causes you to immediately land back on top of the platform.
do i need to hit the opponent to do it?
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
So I'm having trouble with playing against Falco in the neutral game because I know it's bad to be in the air as Marth but also Falco's lasers really mess me up. How should I play neutral vs. Falco?
 

SUNG666

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
748
Location
LA, CA (Glendale) Hook me up if ya wanna smash
I've been practicing cg against fox on FD

I wondered if it was really possible to shine out at 17%. I had my friend cg me with marth and for the life of me, I can't shine him out no matter how fast I mash or anything. It's until like 23% where marth just can't grab anymore from no DI and has to pivot. I tried timing the shine too but maybe I'm just doing it wrong every time...

1. Can fox really shine out at 17%?
2. If he can, then how would he have to do it?
3. If he can't, then when is the earliest can he shine out?
 

.Ðempt

Certified Ponch
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
982
Location
Mantua, OH
I don't think you should be able to shine out of a cg....if you are, it's because the Marth did something wrong.
 

.K1

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
89
Location
SoCal
On top of my last question, Im looking to pick up a secondary character and im curious which character covers marths weak matchups better: Pikachu or Ganon?
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I've been practicing cg against fox on FD

I wondered if it was really possible to shine out at 17%. I had my friend cg me with marth and for the life of me, I can't shine him out no matter how fast I mash or anything. It's until like 23% where marth just can't grab anymore from no DI and has to pivot. I tried timing the shine too but maybe I'm just doing it wrong every time...

1. Can fox really shine out at 17%?
2. If he can, then how would he have to do it?
3. If he can't, then when is the earliest can he shine out?
Well first of all, you shouldn't mash. You should time the shine so it hits right before Marth's earliest regrab timing. Also, you can't do no DI. You have to DI slightly behind them to make them turn around.
 

Mahie

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
1,067
Location
Lille, France
Shameless double post to talk about the tournament I attended this past week-end, Avalon 2, in Holland.
Managed to get 7th and overall pretty satisfied with my play. I got 3 sets recorded that I would like to get critique/analysis for; so if any of you guys feel like doing that, I'd appreciate it.

Winners Round 3 : vs Ace (Falcon) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3_YECu9FI
Only the Marth Falcons, the friendlies (or tournament matches) after that have nothing to do with us.

No video, but I lost to Ice's Sheik 1-3 in WR4.

Loser gets 9th : vs Jimmy (Falco) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlT8hBVlVfM

Loser gets 7th : vs Dancing Queen (Fox) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yueOxWkEoFk

Looking forward to your answers !
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Loser gets 7th : vs Dancing Queen (Fox) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yueOxWkEoFk


Looking forward to your answers !
i think you need to unlock KJ 64, that stage is really fun.

i'm going to go through some of this ish one match at a time. after everything is up, we'll see if we can find any larger themes to look at. this stage is strictly corrective for now.

mahie vs ace 1
00:50 - lol. really that's all i have to say is lol
sequence through 00:59 - you properly waited for nair and faired it, downthrow was correct for position, waited for the tech correctly, upthrow was a good choice, waited for the tech twice. this was all exactly correct.
edgeguard 1:02 - you could have intercepted him fairly easily instead of dancing around imo
1:03 - you way over-extend on your fair. in place fair to dtilt or just dtilt looking for a jump out with your IASA frames would have been fine
1:06 - coming down with dair was probably incorrect since it's so finnicky. it's good that you got down but that was probably more of a punt from falcon than it was the dair being a good choice.
1:15 - the kill was pretty textbook, falcon could do nothing. looks good.
1:27 - upthrow was correct but you should have covered it like you did the prior one. fsmash wasn't a bad choice since it's basically a bull**** test since you've already seen that your opponent's DI isn't great.
1:29 - upthrow was better here since DI on fthrow to the edge was pretty obvious
1:50 - DI in on the fair is automatic ken combo here imo. i see what you were going for on the up B but falcon can still live that w/ good DI on this stage i think, where the only thing saving him from dair is the cloud.
1:54 - this jump is a missed WD back to cover the tech right?
2:07 - that upair was unusually loose given your tech skill
2:11 - you probably should have held in to the stage after the up B and tried landing on the stage, you could have at least made it a little more ambiguous as to whether you'd land on the stage or not to trick him into doing something bad.
2:15 - you should have waited for the opponent to react and stuffed it rather than throwing out a fsmash here
2:32 - putting him on the platform was good but you threw that upair into dead space
2:41 - again, coming down w/ dair. even though it's not a good choice overall, it kinda worked here
2:44 - you way over-extend w/ fair here
- the rest of the match looks good
 

Mahie

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
1,067
Location
Lille, France
i think you need to unlock KJ 64, that stage is really fun.

i'm going to go through some of this ish one match at a time. after everything is up, we'll see if we can find any larger themes to look at. this stage is strictly corrective for now.

mahie vs ace 1
00:50 - lol. really that's all i have to say is lol
sequence through 00:59 - you properly waited for nair and faired it, downthrow was correct for position, waited for the tech correctly, upthrow was a good choice, waited for the tech twice. this was all exactly correct.
edgeguard 1:02 - you could have intercepted him fairly easily instead of dancing around imo
1:03 - you way over-extend on your fair. in place fair to dtilt or just dtilt looking for a jump out with your IASA frames would have been fine
1:06 - coming down with dair was probably incorrect since it's so finnicky. it's good that you got down but that was probably more of a punt from falcon than it was the dair being a good choice.
1:15 - the kill was pretty textbook, falcon could do nothing. looks good.
1:27 - upthrow was correct but you should have covered it like you did the prior one. fsmash wasn't a bad choice since it's basically a bull**** test since you've already seen that your opponent's DI isn't great.
1:29 - upthrow was better here since DI on fthrow to the edge was pretty obvious
1:50 - DI in on the fair is automatic ken combo here imo. i see what you were going for on the up B but falcon can still live that w/ good DI on this stage i think, where the only thing saving him from dair is the cloud.

This is PAL and sadly, sadly, dair isn't a spike. I think there is more to be won from upBing there even if with good DI he could have lived, I can cover his recovery well on Yoshi's if I'm reactive enough.

1:54 - this jump is a missed WD back to cover the tech right?

Yes. I probably wanted to still go for a bair afterwards, which is why I kind of hover a bit, and then decided to just let drop it and try to escape that situation. Things went really sour really fast, technical mistakes are costly.

2:07 - that upair was unusually loose given your tech skill
2:11 - you probably should have held in to the stage after the up B and tried landing on the stage, you could have at least made it a little more ambiguous as to whether you'd land on the stage or not to trick him into doing something bad.

My goal was exactly to make it look really ambiguous. I think I was only a few cms away from landing right on the edge but he didn't take the bait at all.

2:15 - you should have waited for the opponent to react and stuffed it rather than throwing out a fsmash here
2:32 - putting him on the platform was good but you threw that upair into dead space
2:41 - again, coming down w/ dair. even though it's not a good choice overall, it kinda worked here

I think it's kind of semi-safe if you really land it properly, tipped and late on their shield, while retreating near the end. I might be wrong. The execution was not correct though that's for sure.

2:44 - you way over-extend w/ fair here

I actually wanted to hit the tipper on shield and follow it up with a late uair for shield pressure, which was a gamble on my way there but I thought he might be a little scared.. Falcons have trouble dealing with that usually, though I'm not sure how good of a set up that is.That was also a problem of execution but I don't know if the idea was really bad.
- the rest of the match looks good
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
lol pal version, right that's a thing.

i'm so sorry.

edit: i saw the legendary crimson blur on saturday, that dapper lookin' mother ******
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
cool marth stuff:

On BF, DL64, Yoshi's and FoD (I guess if you're a werido) you can reverse ledge dash (haxdash) but instead of regrabbing the ledge you can double jump and land with 0 lag on to the side platforms

It's actually pretty awesome if you already incorporate haxdashing
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
cool marth stuff:

On BF, DL64, Yoshi's and FoD (I guess if you're a werido) you can reverse ledge dash (haxdash) but instead of regrabbing the ledge you can double jump and land with 0 lag on to the side platforms

It's actually pretty awesome if you already incorporate haxdashing
I've been doing this. It's pretty sick since people just assume Marth's LH movement is confined to below side plats. You can either DJ to the side plat and shield if you think they will wait and react before attacking, or if they prefer preemptive attacks as you come off the ledge, just run as soon as you land and FF bair or something as you take center stage. You can also mix this up with a rising fair onto the plat if you are worried about them hitting you as you DJ to the plat, but you probably shouldn't do it at all if you think there's a chance of that because your fair could easily trade. Kadano said you can get the fair out before you run out of invincibility, but I tried it like 100 times and couldn't get it. lol
 

Aefice

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
85
how do you guys work on your spacing and zoning?

do you have specific drills against cpus?
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
For spacing try Mow's bomb practice. Set bomb-ombs on platforms in training mode and use your aerials to hit them without them exploding on you. While this isn't a perfect simulation, it does get you in the habit of proper tipper spacing.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
For spacing try Mow's bomb practice. Set bomb-ombs on platforms in training mode and use your aerials to hit them without them exploding on you. While this isn't a perfect simulation, it does get you in the habit of proper tipper spacing.
I just turn all items except capsules on very high and attack them as soon as I can react to them appearing or with different attacks/angles.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
Do capsules explode the same as a bomb-omb? If so you can turn items on very high and turn everything off so only capsules show up and attack them. If you tip them (and don't have too much forward momentum) you shouldn't get exploded on.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Do capsules explode the same as a bomb-omb? If so you can turn items on very high and turn everything off so only capsules show up and attack them. If you tip them (and don't have too much forward momentum) you shouldn't get exploded on.
They explode like 20% of the time, but I figure most people can tell when they tipped something without an explosion, and I also do it all the time with Falco because the explosion is good for getting into the habit of option selecting DI and practicing recoveries.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
They explode like 20% of the time, but I figure most people can tell when they tipped something without an explosion, and I also do it all the time with Falco because the explosion is good for getting into the habit of option selecting DI and practicing recoveries.
Yeah, that is a really, really good idea there. I'm definitely going to give that a try.
 

Mahie

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
1,067
Location
Lille, France
Shout outs to The Moon, really impressive Marth across the board man. It's always nice to see this kind of new age style of Marth. Good **** for doing that well.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
definitely gonna watch moon's rom6 vids sometime in the next week or two

i got 2nd at a tourney here yesterday behind axe, and i'll post vids for you guys to tell me why i suck once haz puts them on youtube

however, i will shamelessly plug myself and leave this here
 
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