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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
counter is overrated unless the counter will send them offstage. Modern falcos are no longer stupid aggressive and use many empty shorthops, reverse wavelands, lasers just outside of counter range and platform Wavelanding. It's this platform wavelanding that finally led to falcos beating marth in tourney, but it also destroys counter somewhat when your opponent's hop at you may not be for a lser but to waveland the platform backwards to try to bait you into moving
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
counter is overrated unless the counter will send them offstage. Modern falcos are no longer stupid aggressive and use many empty shorthops, reverse wavelands, lasers just outside of counter range and platform Wavelanding. It's this platform wavelanding that finally led to falcos beating marth in tourney, but it also destroys counter somewhat when your opponent's hop at you may not be for a lser but to waveland the platform backwards to try to bait you into moving
i do think its the mark of a player well-versed in the falco matchup to know what shield pressure tactics are and arent reliable, so I like the idea of counter against things that you know shouldnt work.

against good falcos, i think what ur saying holds, but i would never toss the idea of countering

why?

we need our falcos to be as honest as possible and if it means countering THEN BY ALL MEANS COUNTER THE SPAM BECUZ GOLLY GEE I HATE FALCO

also, son, are u in blacksburg this week??????
 

AceDudeyeah

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
967
Location
Floridaa!
As long as we're on the falco matchup(this can apply to fox too),
I always run off the stage and fast fall fair if I suspect that they are going to sweetspot double jump when I throw them off at an early percent.
My question is: Does the fair have to be fast-falled? If you simply run off the stage and fair will it send them horizontally away? Or will it tipper and send them up? Or will it just plain ol' miss?
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
thecrimsonblur sucks

i got tapped so hard when i wore the BLUR tag
never again

still <3 you, though LOL
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
thecrimsonblur sucks

i got tapped so hard when i wore the BLUR tag
never again

still <3 you, though LOL
See what you didn't know is that I use the "CRIM" tag (actually some crazy japanese characters that look like crim). And you weren't red marth! How you gonna be The Crimson Blur and not be red!

<3s right back though. Its the thought that counts :)
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
I'd also note that today was Pokemon day (Black/White just came out) and therefore Pikachu couldn't lose. It just wasn't fair.

They gotta schedule a national on the next Fire Emblem's release date. We'd be unbeatable!
 

Dart!

Smash Master
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
3,755
Location
East Peoria, IL
I'd also note that today was Pokemon day (Black/White just came out) and therefore Pikachu couldn't lose. It just wasn't fair.

They gotta schedule a national on the next Fire Emblem's release date. We'd be unbeatable!
fun fact: all pokemon games include pikachu, not all fire emblems have marth in them.
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
fun fact: all pokemon games include pikachu, not all fire emblems have marth in them.
Is it weird for me to say I've played all but 2 (the Ike ones) of the Fire Emblem games so I could get more in tune with Marth?

Now thats passion. :bee:

(the games are really good tho, I recommend them to anybody. FE7, 6, and 4 particularly. I've got a bunch of records/achievements in FE7 lol shoutouts to gamefaqs)
 

edgeluca

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
1,247
Location
Esquimalt, BC
NNID
Edgeluca
3DS FC
2879-0257-1267
FE7 is my favorite, but probably cause it's the most nostalgic for me.
I recommend you play FE9, since you haven't yet. It's really good. FE10 wasn't great though.
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
FE7 is my favorite, but probably cause it's the most nostalgic for me.
I recommend you play FE9, since you haven't yet. It's really good. FE10 wasn't great though.
Yeah, FE7 is my favorite too. Its generally considered the best in the series.

I'll get around to the Ike games eventually. My backlog is really big right now.
 

Dart!

Smash Master
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
3,755
Location
East Peoria, IL
I never really got into 2 4 and 5...generally those are considered (at least 4 & 5) the toughest fe's

on a related note, shoutouts to axe for teaching me to fight pika. I beat pikachad thanks to you.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
As long as we're on the falco matchup(this can apply to fox too),
I always run off the stage and fast fall fair if I suspect that they are going to sweetspot double jump when I throw them off at an early percent.
My question is: Does the fair have to be fast-falled? If you simply run off the stage and fair will it send them horizontally away? Or will it tipper and send them up? Or will it just plain ol' miss?
You don't have to fast fall it, but I think fastfalling prevents them from jumping back phantasm/firefoxing (ie you get closer to the point of their jump so when you fair they are not out of range yet). If you slow fall and fair I think it would only cover if they went for the sweet spot.
 

linkoninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
459
Location
Los Angeles
I'm still new to Marth so don't flame me xD.
But how come some characters are scared to CC against Marth? I know Peach can **** people with her Down-Smash if they CC, but what is so scary about Marth?
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
is there any way to consistently punish fox and falco's forward b to cover their shorten and when they aim it at your face?

im thinking f-smash or f-tilt, but i'm not sure which would be better. i remember during my set with rubyiris, he got around my jab a lot by shortening his phantasm, and later on in the matches, i'd just be like "yo that's some old bullsh*t" and f-smash him LOL
 

edgeluca

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
1,247
Location
Esquimalt, BC
NNID
Edgeluca
3DS FC
2879-0257-1267
is there any way to consistently punish fox and falco's forward b to cover their shorten and when they aim it at your face?

im thinking f-smash or f-tilt, but i'm not sure which would be better. i remember during my set with rubyiris, he got around my jab a lot by shortening his phantasm, and later on in the matches, i'd just be like "yo that's some old bullsh*t" and f-smash him LOL
I would go with ftilt, but that's probably cause I was trained by Diakonos.
 

JBM falcon08

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
4,374
Location
glenwood iowa
Im convinced darkrain can beat marth, not falcon can beat marth.

Darkrain is so good.

Anyways so Sheik on DL64 is hard vs marth. Any suggestions on how to play on the stage?

I realize that im not playing gay enough as marth when i play him, and i really want to win, but if i think i have a read figured out why shouldn't i go for it? Reading people like seuss is more fun than camping and waiting it out for the win.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
Marth vs Sheik is all about the needle triangle and keeping proper spacing vs it even if they don't really use the needle triangle. It effectively reduces the number of options Sheik has and brings the matchup closer to even than if you just played it regularly. The unfortunate thing about this is that you have to play like a monstrous homosexual and fair camp the **** out of her.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
Cactuar could you elaborate on the needle triangle thing or reference a post in the past that explains this?
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
When sheik jumps, the range that is covered by her needles at any point when she is in the air. It makes a triangle. Do I need to like... draw this out or something?


Anyway, after establishing the triangle, basically what you do is pressure into it to a point where, after she lands, she would almost be able to reach you with a dash attack. This creates a rock paper scissors game where, if she jumps again, you can jump forward and hit her, or if she goes for a dash attack/grab, you can hit her. This is the safest pressure area I have found vs Sheik.


Additionally, if she goes too high and the area of the triangle is increased to a large amount, you can run through the limit of the triangle and position yourself underneath Sheik.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
I don't remember if jabbing twice works.
Pretty sure it does, I also think Jab to Dtilt will work if you don't panic the dtilt and dsmash instead.

Does anybody know the degree of the aerial needle's trajectory? Is it like 45 degrees down or something?
Pretty much. It follows the trajectory of her arm when she throws them. I've always liked overb'ing needles when recovering. Looks pretty cool if you overb a lot of them.
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
This is what Cactus is talking about

dem DJ fairs on the edge of that triangle. Cactus plays this matchup so much differently than everyone else. I really like his innovative style. <3

I don't remember if jabbing twice works.
It usually doesn't if they fastfall after the side b in my experience.

I'd say shieldbreaker in that scenario. I find it much easier to aim than either fsmash or ftilt but maybe thats just me.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
Im convinced darkrain can beat marth, not falcon can beat marth.

Darkrain is so good.

Anyways so Sheik on DL64 is hard vs marth. Any suggestions on how to play on the stage?

I realize that im not playing gay enough as marth when i play him, and i really want to win, but if i think i have a read figured out why shouldn't i go for it? Reading people like seuss is more fun than camping and waiting it out for the win.
I don't know how good Darkrain is vs Marth, no disrespect meant (he's my favorite Falcon, if not, tied with Hax). He lost to TAJ at FCD, and TAJ hates the MU (although the MU was probably really different back then). He lost to Strawhat, and when I was playing him at Pound, though he probably wasn't trying too hard, I didn't feel the extreme homo that I feel when I play against Hax or GG7
 
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