Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Orange5000]

PP, what do you think "momentum" is? As something so viscerally and obviously felt in melee, I feel like it's a pretty abstract and high-concept thing that combines so many factors in the game. Even though I for sure know when I have or don't have momentum and play according to it, I still feel like I don't understand it very well. And by understanding it better I'll be able to manipulate it more effectively in a match, or regain it when I don't have it.

Though I don't really have an idea on what culminates in "momentum" or how it shifts around, I think I can at least describe how players behave within its context.

When someone has momentum, usually they play more confident, sometimes letting them feel more comfortable using tricky baits (not necessarily approaching more), but sometimes players also blow it by feeing themselves too hard and playing carelessly. I guess you can't say much more to which kind it'll be, since everyone handles momentum differently? I don't know if there's much more to say than this...

When someone doesn't have momentum, I feel like their play usually exaggerates under pressure, whether it's becoming more defensive or more aggressive, and regardless of which way they lean, this exaggerated play style leads them more open to being manipulated.

Like I said earlier, I'm not too sure how momentum really shifts, but sometimes it feels more in your control, and sometimes it doesn't. For instance, in melee there seem to just be some critical moments that stand out and whoever comes out on top in those spots has a sudden momentum shift, and I feel like these critical moments are less often in neutral but edgeguard/punish. Take for instance when someone is edgeguarding but their move "randomly" sends the opponent the wrong way, or someone's punish gets reversaled when otherwise it would've taken the stock. Momentum shifts in moments as these seem as sudden as they are unpredictable, and they kinda feel out of your control?

Meanwhile, could you say that there is a way to control your momentum, but that comes more steadily through playing in neutral? For instance, like "pressure sequencing" the opponent by baiting them to whiff a move, give up stage, and gradually snowballing that advantage, where eventually you've manually "built up" your momentum.

Momentum, as the term rightfully implies, really can snowball and turn into situations where you're just correctly hitting mixup after mixup, which can end up mentally crushing the opponent. But I feel like this only really happens when you fully understand it though. Or is it just a "feeling" since just SO many things go into it, and so many unpredictable/random occurrences in the match affect it? Maybe you can define momentum as just how easily someone "defaults" under pressure? And "defaults" as in going back down on one of their habits.

Wondering your thoughts on my examples as well as how you define, think of, and abuse momentum. Also do you personally always have the balance of momentum/who has it in mind as you play, even if subconsciously/implicitly? I def think I'm a "momentum based" player (whatever that means) and try to have a playstyle of outplaying the opponent constantly by having movement that's as purposeful and functional as possible, for better or worse, and I think understanding momentum will seriously help guide my decision making in matches. Sorry if this is a tricky topic.

Also lastly wanna say hope you had a good thanksgiving! I'm thankful for all your advice and inspiration, you've helped me become an objectively better melee player which not only greatly enriches my experience of the game but allows me to better help those around me as well

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey everyone, long time no post. I thought if anywhere was good to ask questions about neutral, it would be here.

I have been really struggling as of late to deal with Fox utilizing the top platform on Yoshi's. It feels to me like Fox effectively threatens the entire stage from that position and your risk/reward for challenging it is very poor, especially at both low and high percents. Are there any matches where you see a Marth deal well with that style? I don't really struggle with other stages vs this style because there are easily identifiable zones that are not threatened by that position, and you can challenge it more incrementally or not at all. On Yoshi's I feel like I give up all my neutral presence if I don't challenge it, like I'm just waiting to block/get hit. Any ideas besides vids to link? I feel like Zain just usually loses vs ibdw playing this style on yoshi's, and most Foxes who played PP/M2K there back in the day didn't really play this style.

Honestly, you're right it's pretty hard to deal with. I think Fox is advantaged there if he does this strategy.

The main thing is not to corner yourself and not to be predictable here. If you are cornered, you lose dash back potential and also are easily killed from a hit. If you're more under the platform, you can be much tricker with which side you go to, and can even threaten the top platform quickly with SH Uair if Fox is pretty much directly over you(though this is either partly or fully punished by shield drop I'd imagine, so you'd need to be sure he won't shield). If the Fox is more aggressive, look and see if he primarily dash shield drops or does runoff/WD off as well. See if he DJs. DJs can of course be sniped and you can dodge then FH/DJ hit him so look for that. If he's more patient you can spaced FH Fair/Bair sometimes to encourage him to keep moving. Without more information I couldn't answer beyond this.

PP, what do you think "momentum" is? As something so viscerally and obviously felt in melee, I feel like it's a pretty abstract and high-concept thing that combines so many factors in the game. Even though I for sure know when I have or don't have momentum and play according to it, I still feel like I don't understand it very well. And by understanding it better I'll be able to manipulate it more effectively in a match, or regain it when I don't have it.

Though I don't really have an idea on what culminates in "momentum" or how it shifts around, I think I can at least describe how players behave within its context.

When someone has momentum, usually they play more confident, sometimes letting them feel more comfortable using tricky baits (not necessarily approaching more), but sometimes players also blow it by feeing themselves too hard and playing carelessly. I guess you can't say much more to which kind it'll be, since everyone handles momentum differently? I don't know if there's much more to say than this...

When someone doesn't have momentum, I feel like their play usually exaggerates under pressure, whether it's becoming more defensive or more aggressive, and regardless of which way they lean, this exaggerated play style leads them more open to being manipulated.

Like I said earlier, I'm not too sure how momentum really shifts, but sometimes it feels more in your control, and sometimes it doesn't. For instance, in melee there seem to just be some critical moments that stand out and whoever comes out on top in those spots has a sudden momentum shift, and I feel like these critical moments are less often in neutral but edgeguard/punish. Take for instance when someone is edgeguarding but their move "randomly" sends the opponent the wrong way, or someone's punish gets reversaled when otherwise it would've taken the stock. Momentum shifts in moments as these seem as sudden as they are unpredictable, and they kinda feel out of your control?

Meanwhile, could you say that there is a way to control your momentum, but that comes more steadily through playing in neutral? For instance, like "pressure sequencing" the opponent by baiting them to whiff a move, give up stage, and gradually snowballing that advantage, where eventually you've manually "built up" your momentum.

Momentum, as the term rightfully implies, really can snowball and turn into situations where you're just correctly hitting mixup after mixup, which can end up mentally crushing the opponent. But I feel like this only really happens when you fully understand it though. Or is it just a "feeling" since just SO many things go into it, and so many unpredictable/random occurrences in the match affect it? Maybe you can define momentum as just how easily someone "defaults" under pressure? And "defaults" as in going back down on one of their habits.

Wondering your thoughts on my examples as well as how you define, think of, and abuse momentum. Also do you personally always have the balance of momentum/who has it in mind as you play, even if subconsciously/implicitly? I def think I'm a "momentum based" player (whatever that means) and try to have a playstyle of outplaying the opponent constantly by having movement that's as purposeful and functional as possible, for better or worse, and I think understanding momentum will seriously help guide my decision making in matches. Sorry if this is a tricky topic.

Also lastly wanna say hope you had a good thanksgiving! I'm thankful for all your advice and inspiration, you've helped me become an objectively better melee player which not only greatly enriches my experience of the game but allows me to better help those around me as well

Happy Thanksgiving to you too! I am glad there are many who still value what I have to offer and use it to better the lives of others <3

What do I think momentum is? I think it begins with the game. It begins with neutral, and with playing as solidly as possible. When you have been able to score a hit or any kind of advantage, as long as you can move with this advantage OR your opponent thinks they are disadvantage, then momentum begins building. As you and your opponent trade hits and positions, an ebb and flow of momentum could be said to be taking place. Perhaps it is only when there is a critical moment, or a difficult punish that is completed when momentum swings to one person. Within all of this there are many things. For example, if you react to someone's option in a common position and beat it when they rarely get punished for doing it that way, this could be a big momentum gain even if you don't get an immediate followup. Likewise, if you notice your opponent is weaker on the edge and so begin forcing them to edge, covering stage more on edgeguarding etc, then you would be building momentum by causing your opponent to become less comfortable. I could not begin to cover all variables and possibilities here.

So this is kind of a game-based way that I have built up with a story and some of the words you used. Allow me to change the response a little.

Momentum could be just as much about your own will and training and self as it is about the game. If you really want to win then you may keep fighting despite losing common situations or getting punished hard some. You may not let the classic momentum extra mixups hit you as hard or as much at all, forcing the opponent to stay playing cleanly and not assume your reactions have been thrown off. If you have trained well, then even if you get surprised you can adjust as your training has allowed with different mixups. If you are a resilient person, or if you're used to adversity, or if you're used to being off-balance, or even if your physical body is conditioned well so you keep breathing well, or if your emotions are clear such that you do not let fear cloud your mind....these are all things that can mitigate would-be momentum setters for your opponent and perhaps strengthen your own advantage when you do gain it.

There are all sorts of things to further consider if we wished, such as how momentum can be abused with slowly crushing them vs suffocating them vs letting them repeatedly hang themselves. Maybe we could consider that passive players would not mind if a player with momentum then played passively, or that an aggressive player needs to find that balance of going in and a wider range of tempos vs a player who plays defensively and may turtle harder when needing a reversal in their favor. Too passively of their own and they unknowingly shift into the defensive players' game, but too aggressively and without regard to their opponents' true state they throw everything they worked for away.

Like most things that go into this space, I do tend to recommend players first look at the game, then at themselves for momentum. Armada can play badly and be miserable and still have momentum vs a day 1 in his pools match.

 

[Zorcey]

I watched your Metagame response this morning. You mentioned having put a lot of thought into how to use sensitivity for making yourself into a stronger competitor/person, instead of allowing it to be a point of weakness. I’m not sure if your thoughts on the matter are ready to be shared yet, but I’d be really interested in reading a post discussing what you’ve learned, if you thought you were able to write one. This is something I’ve struggled with a lot myself both in Melee and life, and while I’ve made my own strides over time through trial-and-error, I still have a long way to go. I thought your insight would give me some stuff to think about.

Whether you write the post or not, thanks as always PP. <3

 

[Dr Peepee]

It is something I'm still developing. Perhaps I can share something useful now.

If sensitivity is a high receptivity to stimuli, then that means you simply need to take in more POSITIVE than NEGATIVE. Given our environment(in all forms), this is difficult. But possible!

For physical stimuli, this is body work, food, sleep, sunlight, water, etc.

For mental: new knowledge, maybe new people

Emotional: Stories and ideas and people that can help you improve or stay at a higher level

I think there's also something I was really confused about when this all began happening to me. I was thinking "why are things that didn't affect me before doing so now?" It must be the case that through improving and becoming more aware, one can increase their sensitivity. So I think sensitivity is actually an end result of effort, though what our base is probably depends on the person from birth and maybe early life experience. I don't think everyone will become like me, but I think athletes learn more subtle cues of their body through training for example.

I could probably write some more, but this feels good for now.

 

[Zorcey]

That confusion you mentioned is interesting. I've been experiencing something similar lately, but I hadn't thought of it as generally increased sensitivity. I've made a lot of progress in terms of mindfulness and self-honesty the past few months, but it occurred to me recently that I was actually feeling worse in many ways as a result. I think it's because a lot of feelings that I had developed the ability to "ignore" or suppress I've managed to make myself take notice of, but perhaps the coping skills aren't there yet.

It sort of parallels that experience in Melee or any game/art where you can start to see a new layer after a lot of practice/thinking, but it actually slows you down and makes you a weaker player until you've truly spent time with it and thought out and practiced what you want to do with it.

Your point about being careful to surround yourself with more positive stimuli makes a lot of sense, but would you say that requiring so much positive stimuli actually makes you that much stronger a person? Or is the idea that internalizing that positivity helps you develop the skill needed to handle the negative when it comes up?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Like attracts like. Life still can be negative, but I have heard of people carving out positive spaces even if they get forcefully relocated. Monks find nature to be most positive. Ideally, you are able to be peaceful even in very intense situations, but there is nothing wrong with building yourself up to get to that point. Inner and outer worlds are connected, after all.

 

[Aiken]

Hey PP, I started reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do and I was wondering if I could get your interpretations on a few of the lines.

The perfect way is only difficult for those who pick and choose. Do not like, do not dislike; all will then be clear. Make a hairbreadth difference and Heaven and Earth are set apart; if you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease.

Wisdom does not consist of trying to wrest the good from the evil but in learning to "ride" them as a cork adapts itself to the crests and troughs of the waves.

Let yourself go with the disease, be with it, keep company with it - this is the way to be rid of it.

I'm unsure how you ride the "waves" of good and evil, or what he means by "Let yourself go with the disease, be with it, keep company with it".

I know you advise against reading this book with the intent to apply it to melee but I still find it really interesting.

 

[tuck :)]

Hey PP, I started reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do and I was wondering if I could get your interpretations on a few of the lines.



I'm unsure how you ride the "waves" of good and evil, or what he means by "Let yourself go with the disease, be with it, keep company with it".

I know you advise against reading this book with the intent to apply it to melee but I still find it really interesting.

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do questions have begun! I don't plan on getting the book myself but I'm looking forward to seeing all the people that end up buying it analyze the quotes.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey PP, I started reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do and I was wondering if I could get your interpretations on a few of the lines.



I'm unsure how you ride the "waves" of good and evil, or what he means by "Let yourself go with the disease, be with it, keep company with it".

I know you advise against reading this book with the intent to apply it to melee but I still find it really interesting.

These sections are really interesting!

The main thing he is advocating for with the first 2 sections you write, in my view, is to put a spin on something. A negative spin means you are thinking negatively and can get stuck into habit. A positive spin means you get accustomed to that view, and if that circumstance or thing should change then you would feel negatively. Additionally, spinning anything means you put your own perspective on it. You try to apply past experience and your morals to it. Should you give up these things, you see things as they are, and thus honestly. Seeing honestly is very powerful.

However, you could give another interpretation based on the second section. You could instead say that you shouldn't try to make one thing good or bad based on your morals, but some things may be good or bad at their core if you can stop trying to see things in your own way. Riding the peaks and valleys means being with things as they change and experiencing these highs and lows of life honestly, much as you'd want to ride waves and not fight against them.

The last section is of course quite interesting to see again for me. It's similar to the above in that the more you fight against what is going on, the more it will stay. When you accept it and whatever it has brought as part of you, and allow it to move through you fully, then you have learned from it and no longer need it.

 

[Kotastic]

One frustration for me regarding playing Marth is that unless I'm following fundamental good rules in a mu, Marth seriously struggles. Once I'm following those rules though, the mu becomes significantly easier. I'm not sure if this sort of struggle applies as hard for other chars, maybe you can speak with experience with Falco's mu, but I find that Marth has to play each of his mu's wildly different or else he seriously struggles.

I bring this up because I want to switch up my solo practice routine to appropriately reflect this. While connecting with my wavedash is great, the fact of the matter is that WD matters far less in certain matchups, such as the Falcon mu. Connecting with my tools abstractly while thinking about some application has some value to me, but I feel like I can make my solo practice more valuable if I can incorporate practicing "rules" into each mu so it has more direct returns. How would you go about this?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sure.

You can practice doing movements that matter more for certain matchups. Dash movements designed to bait a quick attack from Fox would be good. Actions out of Fair or Dtilt are good. In doing any of these types of things, it's useful to do what you do while WD'ing. Think of what each action/sequence loses to, and how to cover those gaps. Then practice something that can do so.

 

[Zorcey]

I've had a problem with closing things out for a long time, but it's recently gotten dramatically worse. The problem isn't unique to Melee, but it's a very obvious expression of it. I will often be in a situation where I'm up 2 or 3 stocks to 1 (or just came back from a similar deficit) and just mentally check out, with my thought process being something like "okay, I've proven I can win/deserve to win" even though I know that the game isn't over yet. I've also found myself just going limp in many grand finals and having absolutely no fire to win, even if I had it in all the sets leading up to that point. Even in friendlies I find my focus just totally dropping out towards the end of games. It's as if I never have the mental energy for that final sprint in anything.

What would you do if you had this issue?

 

[Kotastic]

What is your definition of a poke?

How are pokes different than a normal approach?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I've had a problem with closing things out for a long time, but it's recently gotten dramatically worse. The problem isn't unique to Melee, but it's a very obvious expression of it. I will often be in a situation where I'm up 2 or 3 stocks to 1 (or just came back from a similar deficit) and just mentally check out, with my thought process being something like "okay, I've proven I can win/deserve to win" even though I know that the game isn't over yet. I've also found myself just going limp in many grand finals and having absolutely no fire to win, even if I had it in all the sets leading up to that point. Even in friendlies I find my focus just totally dropping out towards the end of games. It's as if I never have the mental energy for that final sprint in anything.

What would you do if you had this issue?

Sometimes this happens to me. I remind myself that my opponent is very good and any slips on my end will lead to my defeat. I tell myself that my opponent deserves my best, and I do too.

Keeping focus up can be a drain, so meditation and exercise to help me maintain it over time and easily catch slips would be something I'd be looking at first as well.

If I wanted to look at deeper causes, I could consider how I may be sabotaging myself for thinking I don't deserve to let my light shine. And then view being up against people as training.

What is your definition of a poke?

How are pokes different than a normal approach?

A poke is a move that does not convert into a combo(usually) and is designed to push into your opponent, to prod them and see if you can get more space with it or at least what they do when they see it. Usually a faster tool.

A poke is not designed to convert into a combo but moreso to take stage or gain intel. A normal approach could be many things that could perhaps include a poke. Most people think of a normal approach as a full one designed to hit the opponent and convert into pressure or a combo. A poke can convert into pressure but it can be more difficult to do this with certain pokes such as spacie Ftilt.

 

[Kotastic]

Do you usually advocate for marth to poke because his poke options are generally far safer than his approaching aerial/fsmash/grab?

If you know the intel already that the opponent will 90% chance do X to certainly land an fsmash/aerial, but you also have the option to tipper dtilt and thus set up pressure, what options would you generally choose?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Marth's main poke is his Dtilt, and poking with that works with him because it plays to his strengths of getting stage and making them deal with sword which they can't outright beat. Poking with even like spaced Fair(if you wish to argue that's a poke, which I don't) works somewhat similarly.

Depends if the Dtilt can lead to any more or how good the position he could get will be. But yeah 90% is pretty good so I'd probably just take the Fsmash/aerial. You can set these things up in safer ways sometimes too.

 

[Tahjima]

Hi DR.PP I LOVE U!!! Also I am an aspiring Peach and Falco player. I did not watch many of your matches until metagame which is when I realized how freaking sick you are! So my question is what's the best way to implement new tech into your game? I recently started taking smash seriously again, after watching you in the doc really inspired me because I have had my fair share of bad times and I get how that feels completely. The doc made me become a PP and Armada stan since I am a Peach and Falco player after all. But also I have another question. What do you think sets you apart from other players to make you the greatest and what is the way to train most effectively. Thank you for reading this! and one more thing... STACK IT UPPPPPPP.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Ay good luck in your journey man!!

I'd say if you wanna add new tech to your game, you practice that tech on its own and then work it into your movements. Let's say you wanna WD. You practice it in place, moving. Then out of dash, SHFFL, into itself, out of shine, however you wanna use it in match. Then before a match you say "I wanna use WD out of dash" and then after the match you see if you did it. That simple!

I do have a practice guide on Youtube that works for many characters, but I'd also say that being relaxed is good, doing simple things while focusing on them translates well to matches, and doing movements and actions in practice you'll do in matches is of course great.

 

[Kotastic]

Do you consider something like a long dash forward, representing basically an empty dtilt, a poke in of itself?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Oh ho hoooo, now that's a good question!

For general educational purposes, I would say no. Pokes refer to actual attacks that would be hard to whiff punish and do little damage.

But, COULD one poke into the space of an opponent slightly, with either a quick or long dash? Sure. Could they elicit responses because of what's connected to them? Yep.

In my mind, a Dtilt is different from a dash in, but both can "poke" at the opponent in different, and sometimes connected, ways. However you wish to use this information to further your game sense is best.

 

[Sacredtwin11]

When you're walling falcon out at longer ranges, do you generally mix up jump timings and react to their jump with the nair/fair, or do you wait for them to jump before jumping yourself?

With mid ranges are you forced to jump pre-emptively since it's not reactable to jump after they do?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I generally wait for them to jump first.

Yes with mid-ranges or close ranges you'd need to jump first, unless you're at a very tip of a mid range or have some type of read.

 

[Langstonian]

Hey PP! Huge fan especially after the doc.

I come from competitive ultimate and I've been grinding melee for a couple months now. At this point, I gotta say I am a full convert: Melee = best smash game.

Because I am relatively new my question may be a little dumb, but I was wondering what are the best ways to practice the punish game? (I main Marth if that matters) From my ultimate background, a lot of neutral concepts carry over and after watching the video on your YouTube channel on Marth's tools I feel pretty strong in the neutral game. I am woefully lacking in punish, however. I have heard people say you can just "grind out" punish game, its a lot easier to practice than neutral which requires some brain stuff. I'm willing to grind out combos for hours, but unlike ultimate whose online resources consist mainly of numerous true combos with any given character, I have found Melee bases their character guides more around the tools of the character overall than actual combos.

Thanks a TON (you and M2K r my biggest inspirations)

 

[Dr Peepee]

Welcome Langstonian!

For the CG, you can find an SSBM Tutorials video on Youtube giving some good advice. Getting the new Uncle Punch and setting up save states so that you can practice with different DIs and techs will help a lot. Learning some throw into kill setups at certain percents, and getting some edgeguards down using this method will help streamline your game. I can answer more specific questions more specifically.

Hope this helps!!

 

[BoboKoz]

Dear PP I have been researching platform followups against Fastfallers

I am very skeptical of my research so please hear me out
From what i understand about U throw followups

Tech in place and Mistech are reactable with Utilt/walk fsmash and you usually want to be right above them because of slide off for the utilt

Tech rolls are covered by waveland grab or late / the early uair slideoff mixup
From what i see here there is a 50/50 with reacting to either the tech in place/mistech and the tech rolls
However sometimes you can get lucky choosing the utilt as their DI and the hitbox of the utilt can cover if they roll near where they tech


Above 60% i can most likely get away with using uair as even if i get a weak hit, it will most likely combo into an utilt or another uair/other aerial of your choosing as slide off is no longer possible

Is this information enough to formulate a game plan? or is there another piece of the puzzle that i am missing.Please enlighten me PP

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's not a bad start. I'll add a couple other things:

1. Below 20% post-throw, it's pretty hard to get followups because you have too much lag relative to when they land on the platform. This is made harder if they DI to the side. So sometimes they can get into positions that have no good followups(especially on DL, but BF can have this too).

2. Platform heights change things. Much easier to get followups on YS/FoD/PS than on BF/DL. Be sure to look at percents there.

3. At 21% post-throw on Fox on BF, you can react with SH Uair and either FF or drift to cover any option. Of course slideoffs exist, but it means this is a decent percent threshold for reaction in some cases. The same percent for Falco would be 24%.

 

[BoboKoz]

Dear PP,

I went into uncle punch trying to practice the reaction tech chase on BF
When fox rolls its really easy to just drift and then uair

However an issue arises when fox DI's slightly behind and techs in place/mistechs
It seems as if I don't have time to FF and get the tipper
here's an example of what i am talking about:
https://gfycat.com/defensivespiritedchrysalis

Should I Try to react to tech in place with Utilt and react to rolls with Uair? Or should I try to react to the techs and then jump,drift then uair?
Finally, Can this be applied to other stages such as dreamland?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Fox needs to have 1 more percent first of all. Second, I would see if you can hit him later in his tech after the FF.

You can Utilt/Fsmash tech in place/missed tech and uair tech rolls, but slideoff will be an issue for Uair and some Utilts. You can waveland grab tech rolls though. Or WD/pivot Fsmash.

This can be applied to other stages, but on DL you cannot Fsmash. The percents will also need to be higher as the side platforms are higher off the ground.

 

[Kotastic]

I've been really internalizing the sweetspot range to stay against peach and holy moly Marth has such a huge advantage in that spot.

However, I feel like this concept gets weaker if I'm fighting Peach in YS/FoD. I don't understand why M2K likes FoD, where at least YS you can snipe some early stocks. How can I make those stages work in my favor vs peach?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Use movement when you can, but otherwise make her fear the sword. She can't back up vs Dtilt/Fair on smaller levels which is great for you.

 

[Zorcey]

How do you recommend dealing with Fox’s defensive FH (when they tend to jump in place or back and mix DJ/no DJ) if you’re not going to read it? I don’t really know where to move as he’s coming down—would tipper Dtilt range be best?

What do you consider the advantages of jumping at mid range versus Fox to be? It’s very risky, but it works a lot of the time and I’m not sure why yet.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You can sometimes Fair it if you semi expect it, but otherwise I'd say it's better to get into range to Dtilt/Fair the landing either directly or for pressure. That's your best position after all so it makes sense to get there.

Jumping vs Fox at mid range actually isn't so bad because Fox's moves are just so small. You beat out his stuff and can still see him coming which is great. This opens you up to either pressuring or defending more from mid range depending on your style...meaning you can transition from this space well.

 

[Sqezzy]

Hi PP!

I really liked what you said in a recent vid about how autopilot isn't a bad thing, and how it's important to improve your autopilot because of how it benefits reaction time.

I'm curious about how autopilot interacts with higher level thinking during a match. Let's say I'm playing Fox as Marth, and I grab him at a specific range multiple times because he always holds sheild. Then, he adjusts and starts to spot dodge shine me at that range. I recognize this, I have an answer for it (WD down to bait out the spot dodge and then punish), but I find that in autopilot I hardly ever actually make the adjustment. If it happens it kind of feels like magic, and if it doesn't I get frustrated, because I feel like I know what to do. It isn't until I consciously seek out that situation that I'm able to shift from one movement pattern to another semi-quickly, but that comes at the cost of being unable to pay attention/react to pretty much everything else.

Is it possible to improve one's autopilot so that adjustment step can happen more quickly/easily, without the conscious effort? Or is there another way to think about this altogether?

Thank you in advance!!

 

[Dr Peepee]

This is a very interesting question. It is not one I am sure I can make a one size fits all answer for.

So for starters, a particular complication is that if you are trying to learn something new or are just newer to Melee, you will need more conscious attention. This is typical for anyone learning anything new. Then by the time you are more accustomed to things, your conscious system will quiet down more and more. However in Melee what I am suggesting is to create that process of mastery more. But still sometimes early on you'll have these issues is what I mean.

Also, to me another part is that you shift your conscious thinking to other times. This includes between stocks, between games, and between sessions(when you are looking at something and practicing counters to it, mentally or physically or both to train subconscious reaction).

That does not include how good exercise and meditation and a more relaxed state(so one in which emotions are more at peace on a variety of levels) often lends itself to letting your knowledge and preparation take over without extra conscious interference.

So whatever you feel is most important to take here, use it. But as you can see I can not give a simple model for how this should be done. I know that pulling from all of this worked for me, and seems to work for others when I suggest it to them.

 

[Tahjima]

Do you have any ideas on the Peach vs Marth MU? Also how much do you think someone who has been playing for two months should practice a day?

Thank you

 

[Tahjima]

I am sorry I forgot to type from the perspective of a Peach player cause I keep losing to Marths.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You can edit your post in the future and I'll see it. No need to double post.

Peach needs turnips to control Marth more. That's big for her. Change your float height and also how long you float. If Marth is dashing back a lot, you can float farther forward and catch him. If he's attacking early, then FC earlier or consider just dash attacking his lag.

 

[Sqezzy]

This is a very interesting question. It is not one I am sure I can make a one size fits all answer for.

So for starters, a particular complication is that if you are trying to learn something new or are just newer to Melee, you will need more conscious attention. This is typical for anyone learning anything new. Then by the time you are more accustomed to things, your conscious system will quiet down more and more. However in Melee what I am suggesting is to create that process of mastery more. But still sometimes early on you'll have these issues is what I mean.

Also, to me another part is that you shift your conscious thinking to other times. This includes between stocks, between games, and between sessions(when you are looking at something and practicing counters to it, mentally or physically or both to train subconscious reaction).

That does not include how good exercise and meditation and a more relaxed state(so one in which emotions are more at peace on a variety of levels) often lends itself to letting your knowledge and preparation take over without extra conscious interference.

So whatever you feel is most important to take here, use it. But as you can see I can not give a simple model for how this should be done. I know that pulling from all of this worked for me, and seems to work for others when I suggest it to them.

Thank you for the response! Lots of good stuff for me to try here. Knowing that it's not an exact science also makes it feel a bit less intimidating lol

 

[Kotastic]

What is the purpose of SH in place vs Fox? Why should I do SH fair in place instead of nair in place aside from fair beating FH forward better?

I find that sometimes I spam SH in front of Fox's face too much and it can get me eaten up.

 

[Aiken]

What options do you think marth should be doing in this situation? What would you personally default to? I feel like this comes up a lot because marth can often get caught out of position in neutral and be forced to shield a bair but I'm not really sure how to proceed when it happens to me.