Important Carefully Ask EG.PPMD about the Tiara Guy

Kotastic

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grimer??

anyways, I attended a tournament today and felt something I have never felt before that is very alarming to me. I just...everything felt forced. The entire tournament, I felt like I was doing all automatic things. There was no adrenaline, mindful thinking, the intense will to win, appreciation of being there, none of that. Just mostly apathetic thoughts. As I left the tournament, it all felt bland to me.

I'm pretty sure that the main reason why I've been feeling this lately is because I seriously got into tetris this past weekend. Just something about it made me feel similar things as to why I got into Melee, which is...it just feels nice. Literally the past 2 days I spent 12+ hours just grinding setups. 0 for Melee. And from that intense motivation to grind Tetris, it's almost like the motivation got transferred from Melee and now it feels kind of hollow.

Thing is, deep down I still love Melee. I want to stick with it long-term, but right now I feel like soft-retiring from the game because all I want to do is grind this other game until I get really really good, which could easily take thousands of hours to do. I wouldn't say for now I truly love tetris yet, but it might get there. This actually happened before with AAA titles with a series I was seriously invested in, but at least it's a 50 hour game max whereas tetris can easily be endless. I've been thinking that perhaps I should set my goals smaller for tetris and be satisfied with it forever, but I'm not sure.

I don't think I want to retire from Melee long-term, but I sure do feel like it right now. Any inputs to get my fire back?
 

rousd

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grimer??

anyways, I attended a tournament today and felt something I have never felt before that is very alarming to me. I just...everything felt forced. The entire tournament, I felt like I was doing all automatic things. There was no adrenaline, mindful thinking, the intense will to win, appreciation of being there, none of that. Just mostly apathetic thoughts. As I left the tournament, it all felt bland to me.

I'm pretty sure that the main reason why I've been feeling this lately is because I seriously got into tetris this past weekend. Just something about it made me feel similar things as to why I got into Melee, which is...it just feels nice. Literally the past 2 days I spent 12+ hours just grinding setups. 0 for Melee. And from that intense motivation to grind Tetris, it's almost like the motivation got transferred from Melee and now it feels kind of hollow.

Thing is, deep down I still love Melee. I want to stick with it long-term, but right now I feel like soft-retiring from the game because all I want to do is grind this other game until I get really really good, which could easily take thousands of hours to do. I wouldn't say for now I truly love tetris yet, but it might get there. This actually happened before with AAA titles with a series I was seriously invested in, but at least it's a 50 hour game max whereas tetris can easily be endless. I've been thinking that perhaps I should set my goals smaller for tetris and be satisfied with it forever, but I'm not sure.

I don't think I want to retire from Melee long-term, but I sure do feel like it right now. Any inputs to get my fire back?
Hey I kinda went through the same thing, my life was pretty much all melee from 2015 - 2016. Around genesis 4 I picked up guitar and got heavily invested into that and pretty much went off the grid for for almost 2 years - when I started playing melee again around September/October last year I didn't even know about guys like Zain or Crush lol.

I guess all I can say is that interests and passions can change over time, and that's alright. I think I also matured a bit between the time I stopped playing melee. Like, before I would only care about winning, and always assumed that all the top players got good through natural talent, which was probs part of the reason why I stopped. I've realised now getting good involves dedicating HOURS to the game. Also having a love for the game and the people in it helps too, and that is ultimately why I started playing again. So I guess as long as you have a love for the game, you can't ever really leave ;)
 
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maxono1

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grimer??

anyways, I attended a tournament today and felt something I have never felt before that is very alarming to me. I just...everything felt forced. The entire tournament, I felt like I was doing all automatic things. There was no adrenaline, mindful thinking, the intense will to win, appreciation of being there, none of that. Just mostly apathetic thoughts. As I left the tournament, it all felt bland to me.

I'm pretty sure that the main reason why I've been feeling this lately is because I seriously got into tetris this past weekend. Just something about it made me feel similar things as to why I got into Melee, which is...it just feels nice. Literally the past 2 days I spent 12+ hours just grinding setups. 0 for Melee. And from that intense motivation to grind Tetris, it's almost like the motivation got transferred from Melee and now it feels kind of hollow.

Thing is, deep down I still love Melee. I want to stick with it long-term, but right now I feel like soft-retiring from the game because all I want to do is grind this other game until I get really really good, which could easily take thousands of hours to do. I wouldn't say for now I truly love tetris yet, but it might get there. This actually happened before with AAA titles with a series I was seriously invested in, but at least it's a 50 hour game max whereas tetris can easily be endless. I've been thinking that perhaps I should set my goals smaller for tetris and be satisfied with it forever, but I'm not sure.

I don't think I want to retire from Melee long-term, but I sure do feel like it right now. Any inputs to get my fire back?
"which is... it just feels nice." i think u can find ur answer when u dive deeper into that feeling and what actually makes u feel good when playing a game.
this is just a wild guess but what about your (long-term) goals in melee? are you still convinced you can reach them? do you still see a way of becoming great that you want to walk down? maybe it seems to you that getting good at tetris is something more achievable/enjoyable than getting good at melee?
idk if this is it but i hope i could give you some food for thought.
also why not take a break from melee and pursue tetris for a while? see where it takes you and you can also find out maybe what you are missing from tetris that melee gives you. im sure you can find an answer by looking inward and experimenting
 

maxono1

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Dr Peepee Dr Peepee some zoning questions
what actually defines zoning?
does it have to be done at (their) threat range or is it just an attack that is not meant to hit but control space and maybe manipulate the opponent with the lag after it?
for an attack to count as zoning does it have to be impossible for the opponent to hit you before you start it?
are there any other uses i am missing?
edit: is zoning ever reactive or is it always preemptive? (maybe im about to do a zoning fair in center but i see him going to the platform should i abort my zoning and move to a new position) sorry if this example is too vague it probably depends on every factor that exists in melee, but like is it ever the case that you would switch strategies in the middle of executing one?
also is rising fair ever good for zoning?
also unrelated what do you think about using shield in neutral to manipulate opponents(like making a perceived weakness "hah i can grab him here")? esp grab happy ones
does marth even need it with his other strong qualities?
 
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Dr Peepee

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grimer??

anyways, I attended a tournament today and felt something I have never felt before that is very alarming to me. I just...everything felt forced. The entire tournament, I felt like I was doing all automatic things. There was no adrenaline, mindful thinking, the intense will to win, appreciation of being there, none of that. Just mostly apathetic thoughts. As I left the tournament, it all felt bland to me.

I'm pretty sure that the main reason why I've been feeling this lately is because I seriously got into tetris this past weekend. Just something about it made me feel similar things as to why I got into Melee, which is...it just feels nice. Literally the past 2 days I spent 12+ hours just grinding setups. 0 for Melee. And from that intense motivation to grind Tetris, it's almost like the motivation got transferred from Melee and now it feels kind of hollow.

Thing is, deep down I still love Melee. I want to stick with it long-term, but right now I feel like soft-retiring from the game because all I want to do is grind this other game until I get really really good, which could easily take thousands of hours to do. I wouldn't say for now I truly love tetris yet, but it might get there. This actually happened before with AAA titles with a series I was seriously invested in, but at least it's a 50 hour game max whereas tetris can easily be endless. I've been thinking that perhaps I should set my goals smaller for tetris and be satisfied with it forever, but I'm not sure.

I don't think I want to retire from Melee long-term, but I sure do feel like it right now. Any inputs to get my fire back?
Not sure, I think the staff are having some fun or creating some rooms lol.

Maybe your motivation changed now because continuing in Melee felt overwhelming to you, or you had been getting more satisfied with your growth. It could be that you just found something else you like though, and a simple grind of that new thing will make you more content with it. There's no harm in occasional stops for things like this, unless you just seriously want to keep grinding Melee and are confused.

If that's the case, then reaffirming why you like Melee so much, and how you've felt as you've achieved, and how it feels to learn in the game could all be good emotional reminders. Maybe playing the game and feeling it again on your own terms can help rekindle that spark.

Dr Peepee Dr Peepee some zoning questions
what actually defines zoning?
does it have to be done at (their) threat range or is it just an attack that is not meant to hit but control space and maybe manipulate the opponent with the lag after it?
for an attack to count as zoning does it have to be impossible for the opponent to hit you before you start it?
are there any other uses i am missing?
edit: is zoning ever reactive or is it always preemptive? (maybe im about to do a zoning fair in center but i see him going to the platform should i abort my zoning and move to a new position) sorry if this example is too vague it probably depends on every factor that exists in melee, but like is it ever the case that you would switch strategies in the middle of executing one?
also is rising fair ever good for zoning?
also unrelated what do you think about using shield in neutral to manipulate opponents(like making a perceived weakness "hah i can grab him here")? esp grab happy ones
does marth even need it with his other strong qualities?
It is meant to control space. It can be used to swing if an opponent comes in as well, so it's not necessarily about missing. The point is you show what you cover. It can be done inside threat range. It doesn't have to be impossible for them to hit you as you start it.

Zoning can be reactive. Rising Fair is fine for zoning.

Shield in neutral I tend to dislike, but Druggedfox used it quite well to bait with Marth so I think it's worth exploring.
 

Kotastic

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Why should one do WD back dtilt over WD back nair/fair?

Also if puff were to FH forward --> nair, would the best counter to that be fair in place?
 

Dr Peepee

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Not much need to WD back Dtilt usually, but if you need something out faster(they are closer and perhaps running in) and/or you want to cover the ground or be safer, then Dtilt can be more for you.

If Puff does full drift in, then late Fair is great. Depends on percent though. High percent it would be much worse than grab or Fsmash or something. Very low percent it's not the best but it's okay, Nair can be better. If you're tippering Fair at low percent and hitting lower then it's fine, and if it's mid percent you usually want to weak Fair. Grab can be better past that but it isn't as reliable of course.
 

RedmanSSBM

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I recently saw this video on Twitter and I wanted to touch up on how I can look at shadowboxing better.

I think my problem with understanding shadowboxing at the moment is that I can tell shadowboxing has a lot to do with visualization of what my opponent can and can't do in certain positions when the CPU is just standing there. It requires a lot of cognitive thought while shadowboxing to get the most out of it. What I'm not understanding is how is physically playing the game while shadowboxing is necessary. If I can theorycraft about neutral and specific positions while vod studying, why would I have to play the game against a CPU that doesn't move? To me it seems like either I should be vod studying or practicing tech skill instead, but shadowboxing is somewhere in between.
 

Dr Peepee

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I recently saw this video on Twitter and I wanted to touch up on how I can look at shadowboxing better.

I think my problem with understanding shadowboxing at the moment is that I can tell shadowboxing has a lot to do with visualization of what my opponent can and can't do in certain positions when the CPU is just standing there. It requires a lot of cognitive thought while shadowboxing to get the most out of it. What I'm not understanding is how is physically playing the game while shadowboxing is necessary. If I can theorycraft about neutral and specific positions while vod studying, why would I have to play the game against a CPU that doesn't move? To me it seems like either I should be vod studying or practicing tech skill instead, but shadowboxing is somewhere in between.
It's practicing neutral. You beat options, then you practice beating different combinations as an opponent might do them. 20XX can't really help with this, and there's so much variety in how people play anyway, that much will come from your mind.

I have some questions about using Up B in the air as an offensive move, can I get your thoughts on it EG PP MD
MLG sucks
 

maxono1

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Dr Peepee Dr Peepee in the samus matchup what do i do when they beat my wd in dtilt with ftilt (like hit my head) or the attacks clash?
do i have to play the mixup and either use a faster option (wd earlier and use a longer one) or delay it with wd down walk or something which would leave me open to dash attack(those also clash sometimes)?
am i better off using fair against samus in these positions?
i know you dislike it but what about shield? i can fair oos against ftilt and shieldgrab against da (edit:nvm u need shield sdi to fair a spaced ftilt)
i keep thinking that dtilt is supposed to invalidate samus or something but this doesnt seem the case here
 
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Dr Peepee

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You could do a shorter WD in and then punish her extended leg. You could move forward and WD down or jump in place to punish her for attacking.

Shield is an option as well, and if you're pretty sure Samus will attack then it assures a counterattack which can be nice.

Dtilt doesn't cleanly invalidate Samus, the spacing is really precise to outspace her Ftilt and that's when you're standing still. Running in it is less likely to work. And it has less range than Dsmash. So you need to jump sometimes. The good news is your moves are overall safer than hers.
 

Zorcey

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Do you use different baits across different matchups, or can Marth get away with similar sequences most of the time? Are there common bait sequences you would recommend?

I’ve been playing with some things like Late Fair > Utilt, FH Rising Fair stuff, and Tipper Fsmash on shield > UpB if they try to WD in and punish. But I’m actually not sure why I’m doing these baits, I’ve just found it encourages otherwise passive players to come in more (because they think they have an advantage or true punish when they don’t). Ultimately I want to be more honest about making my opponents come in by threatening them out of my DD (all the baits I’ve been using involve zoning swings instead), because baits feel inherently gimmicky to me; still, I want to understand them better and why they work. So what do you think is the reason you should go for baits instead of DDing? Is it very matchup dependent? How useful do you think baits are against top players?
 

Dr Peepee

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Do you use different baits across different matchups, or can Marth get away with similar sequences most of the time? Are there common bait sequences you would recommend?

I’ve been playing with some things like Late Fair > Utilt, FH Rising Fair stuff, and Tipper Fsmash on shield > UpB if they try to WD in and punish. But I’m actually not sure why I’m doing these baits, I’ve just found it encourages otherwise passive players to come in more (because they think they have an advantage or true punish when they don’t). Ultimately I want to be more honest about making my opponents come in by threatening them out of my DD (all the baits I’ve been using involve zoning swings instead), because baits feel inherently gimmicky to me; still, I want to understand them better and why they work. So what do you think is the reason you should go for baits instead of DDing? Is it very matchup dependent? How useful do you think baits are against top players?
Yeah you certainly do different things in different matchups. Jumping in the midway distance vs Falcon is a no-no as we've discussed, and WD in becomes unwise against Falco as he's usually jumping over the possible Dtilt anyway. Dashes tend to be more similar, and zoning can often be more similar. I tend to recommend dash in to WD back as a basic thing to people because it tends to be good in any matchup, at least to some degree and some of the time for many types of players. I think one issue is how we define bait. Do you mean something that makes someone run in? Because I am not sure I can easily guarantee I have such a thing. Showing lag, being close and/or getting close to your opponent are probably the most reliable means of that if that is the case. Also waiting I suppose.

Marth's late Fair is easy to see coming and people know the lag on it is decent so they run in to punish. Utilt covers that weakness fairly well. And so on.

It looks like you define baits as zoning swings later in your post, and if so then it stops being a "bait" per se against people that know how to beat the option more reliably. If a player knows they could get hit by Utilt after Fair, they could run up WD down, or dash in dash back then move in to punish, etc. So you could say the Fair itself is a bait, but you could just not aerial. Would they still come in? What if you retreating jump vs neutral jump vs jump in? Could a top player reliably punish all of those jumps, especially if you did similar movement in a similarly safe position before each? In other words, what makes someone want to move in, and how does knowledge affect that moving in? I think those a good questions for you.

https://youtu.be/2qfR0wSGpSo?t=1322

How would you edgeguard Falcon here when he recovers high with the mixup of going to ledge or platform edge cancel?
I would dash back dash in FH Fair to intercept and either get an easier edgeguard or get a Ken Combo. If he pulled back earlier then I would just walk forward Dtilt. You could probably teeter cancel Fsmash or Dtilt or whatever too in this particular position I guess.
 

Zorcey

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Yeah you certainly do different things in different matchups. Jumping in the midway distance vs Falcon is a no-no as we've discussed, and WD in becomes unwise against Falco as he's usually jumping over the possible Dtilt anyway. Dashes tend to be more similar, and zoning can often be more similar. I tend to recommend dash in to WD back as a basic thing to people because it tends to be good in any matchup, at least to some degree and some of the time for many types of players. I think one issue is how we define bait. Do you mean something that makes someone run in? Because I am not sure I can easily guarantee I have such a thing. Showing lag, being close and/or getting close to your opponent are probably the most reliable means of that if that is the case. Also waiting I suppose.

Marth's late Fair is easy to see coming and people know the lag on it is decent so they run in to punish. Utilt covers that weakness fairly well. And so on.

It looks like you define baits as zoning swings later in your post, and if so then it stops being a "bait" per se against people that know how to beat the option more reliably. If a player knows they could get hit by Utilt after Fair, they could run up WD down, or dash in dash back then move in to punish, etc. So you could say the Fair itself is a bait, but you could just not aerial. Would they still come in? What if you retreating jump vs neutral jump vs jump in? Could a top player reliably punish all of those jumps, especially if you did similar movement in a similarly safe position before each? In other words, what makes someone want to move in, and how does knowledge affect that moving in? I think those a good questions for you.
Partly why I asked the question is because I actally don’t know how to define a bait. At this time I only consciously use them as something to make the opponent run in (by showing lag or moving in/being close as you said), but I think there’s more depth to it because there are other kinds of actions you may want your opponent to take. (Though if you were to make it just any action, and start pushing that definition, “threatening” an opponent to force them to take an action and “baiting” them into it start blending together when talking about something like WD in). How do you define a bait, and why do we use them?

I didn’t mean to define baits as zoning swings so much as say the only baits (or rather the sequences I call “baits”) in my repertoire all involve zoning swings, and I was wondering if this says anything about the definition of baits or just about me (like I only bait by putting myself in lag, when there are other ways I could do it as well).

“[Y]ou could say the Fair itself is a bait, but you could just not aerial. Would they still come in?”
What I’m getting from this first question is that if they would still come in even if I didn’t aerial, then I don’t have to aerial - I could just wait or do... anything else. But this might influence them into doing something else, right? This is a bit confusing because I still don’t have a clear definition of what a bait is (here at its most vague it seems to be “influencing the opponent into doing what you want”; and most specifically “influencing the opponent to come in,” but like I said earlier I don’t think that it’s just making them come in).

I think these questions are meant to make me come closer to a definition on my own, so I'm going to work through them while I wait for your response and compare.
 

Dr Peepee

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You're right that definitions start to blend, so at some point they aren't the most useful beyond what your intent is in a given situation.

I define a bait as a way to give the opponent an opening or obvious cue or an advantage(if you fair from mid range then he knows you will be in lag and could be advantaged) such that they want to move in. They may not take this bait but only CONSIDER it, but it would still be a bait(in fact, not taking the bait could be another bait, etc). A bait need not be successful.
We use baits to put opponents into positions we have practiced, which give us a higher chance of winning. These situations ideally also give us a chance to beat their tools with ours more reliably. (at least if they do what you expect, what the meta says is common or good, etc...)

Your last paragraph is on the right track.


Edit: oh yeah, so you guys can see how I didn't always understand this, I thought I would attach an AIM conversation between Cactuar and myself in late 2011/early 2012.


wsflcactuar 10:26 pm
its not
the same way i complain about how
people view dash dancing
and just see running left and right
without seeing that its moving forward or away from the opponent and what you can do with that
sorry, meant to say
it is definitely underused*

drpeepee 10:28 pm
im incredibly interested in dash dancing and the way you use yours. did you end up assigning them roles with one dash forward being faster and meant to be an intimidating approach and the away one is slower and meant to lull the opponent into a false sense of security?

wsflcactuar 10:28 pm
yes
its all
in
the book

drpeepee 10:28 pm
the fact that you dont dd evenly is incredibly interesting
and it is???

wsflcactuar 10:28 pm
yes

drpeepee 10:28 pm
wow lol

wsflcactuar 10:28 pm
it is
a proper feint
is composed of two actions
a fast, big, attention drawing action
and a slow action
now
both of these actions happen within 1 beat
but they take up an uneven amount of space
your control over yourself
is what pushes you
from having a 50/50
attack/retreat timing
to a 60/40
or 70/30
or further
there is a limit
based on the distance you can travel at what speed
but dd is a 1 frame exchange of momentum

wsflcactuar 10:30 pm
so you can shift it crazy fast
man im such a nerd

drpeepee 10:31 pm
but

drpeepee 10:33 pm
do you assign forward as a number above 50 always? how do you adjust the timing based on conditioning and positioning? do you move forward more when your opponent is more defensive and do you keep your timing more evenly distributed when you're by the edge since you have less room to move and your opponent wants to attack/zone you in that position for example

wsflcactuar 10:33 pm
no, the numbers can be manipulated within the beat in whatever way you want
you do them at a pace
that you can interrupt at any point
with a fast dash forward and attack
within a half beat
or thats the ideal striking distance for a quick attack anyway
big leads
like a marth fsmash
count as a full beat alone
fast things like fox's dash sh nair
are a half beat
with a half beat fall+movement

drpeepee 10:34 pm
what is a beat?

wsflcactuar 10:34 pm
so a single sh nair + dash forward
like
in music
beats
its a measurement of time
its based on your own internal rhythm

wsflcactuar 10:35 pm
which isn't something i can explain easily
smash is extremely similar to actual fighting
in the sense that it creates internal rhythm in some players
and that rhythm usually syncs with that person's dd initially
but can spread to all of their actions with a character
like when you are playing fox
and you just get into the flow of
sh nair's back and forth
passing over the same spot
turning instantly and dashing back again once you land
doing it consistently
tightening it up
slowing it
you are basically making rhythm adjustments

wsflcactuar 10:37 pm
btw, i know **** i say can sound kinda crazy
but its just the way i define it to myself
just so i can explain it
internally its just like
feelings i have about things

drpeepee 10:40 pm
i get you but that is awful hard to break down in a simple way for me to apply to myself outside of making sure i have a difficult rhythm to follow and also one that can be altered to a difficult to follow extent
not your fault or anything but i understand and was just really curious about how you considered it haha

wsflcactuar 10:42 pm
haha
yeah
just

wsflcactuar 10:42 pm
read the book when you have time


Reading the book only somewhat helped, and I had to keep talking to him to explain it like this LOL. But yeah, this is why I don't recommend going off and messing with rhythm all that extensively since it's just a hard concept. Maybe when I can explain it better it won't be so bad?

edit 2: a proper feint to me is different from that, and it probably is to him now as well. We were working on it together even if he did understand way more of it at the time than I did. So don't get hung up on particulars.
 
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Zorcey

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Okay, this is a very clear definition and makes sense of things I wasn’t sure about, thanks a lot.

In this conversation with Cactuar, are these “50/50; 60/40; etc.” numbers BPM? Is what he says about a “fast dash forward within half a beat” being the best spacing for a quick attack just a prototypical definition of TR, or is there more to it?

When you play, how concious of your own rhythm are you? Do you change it conciously throughout a game, or is it something that’s become subconscious through your practice? What makes you change your rhythm now, and do you have a easily quantifiable number of different rhythms? How easily/quickly are you able to tap into your opponent’s rhythm? How would you describe the role of rhythm changes in creating baits?

Also ahhhh the stream tomorrow will be hype. It’s an awkward time for me so I won’t be able to make the whole thing, but I’ll drop by to spam some Kreygasms and definitely watch the VOD if there is one. I’ve noticed your replies have been particularly insightful and thorough the past few weeks, and I had hoped it was because your health was getting better. You’re the best PP.

Edit: I thought of another question I wanted to add: do you only feel your DD in two, or do you experiment with other meters as well?
 
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Dr Peepee

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Cactus was referring to "Tao of Jeet Kune Do." I do not recommend reading it.

Cactus discusses the fast dash forward in itself.

I'm very conscious of it when I play, but I don't have to overfocus on it due to practice. It changes with my opponent and with my emotions and what I want to do. It's just like deciding to zone or move.

I have been doing better and it's been great to give more insight to you all. I am unsure if I can continue being here as much once I begin streaming, but I'll see how I feel. I do love being here.

I hope to see some familiar names in chat =)
 

Kotastic

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Nice stream!

Listened to the speech, and I'll be the first to say that no matter what happens, many of us still offer our unconditional support. No doubt there will be those that will be mad, but we're the louder voices. We're still waiting for the return!
 

AirFair

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Enjoyed the stream man, really good to hear from you healthwise, and I'm glad you're doing better.

Was also really nice to see your marth lol

you did so many more run up nairs vs sheik than I would have expected (I know it was friendlies but I was just thinking that to myself)

Looking forward to future streams and the return!
 
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Kopaka

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I have a soft spot for seeing the process that top players (in anything) took while getting to where they are today. Thanks for sharing that AIM conversation. Also, thanks to those that ask good questions in this thread, especially during trying times when on-the-surface Melee looks pretty ridiculous, with twitter drama and etc. Underneath all the crap that goes on, it's good to know there's people deeply invested in improvement both in and out of the game. Keep the spirit of improving skill and self alive. And pp, you're one of the few people it seems who concerns himself primarily with things that are either neutral/good for the game and the community, and that I very much appreciate.
 
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Dr Peepee

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Nice stream!

Listened to the speech, and I'll be the first to say that no matter what happens, many of us still offer our unconditional support. No doubt there will be those that will be mad, but we're the louder voices. We're still waiting for the return!
I'm very glad you liked it! I think I sorely underestimated how much support I truly had, and how much I may gain from that stream! Thanks man and let's keep growing =)

I have a soft spot for seeing the process that top players (in anything) took while getting to where they are today. Thanks for sharing that AIM conversation. Also, thanks to those that ask good questions in this thread, especially during trying times when on-the-surface Melee looks pretty ridiculous, with twitter drama and etc. Underneath all the crap that goes on, it's good to know there's people deeply invested in improvement both in and out of the game. Keep the spirit of improving skill and self alive. And pp, you're one of the few people it seems who concerns himself primarily with things that are either neutral/good for the game and the community, and that I very much appreciate.
Yeah I felt it was the right time to begin sharing this as I begin to show more tangible growth to all. I want to find as many ways to inspire and help as I can. I CARE SO MUCH YOU'RE RIGHT!

I will keep doing my best for you all =)

Enjoyed the stream man, really good to hear from you healthwise, and I'm glad you're doing better.

Was also really nice to see your marth lol

you did so many more run up nairs vs sheik than I would have expected (I know it was friendlies but I was just thinking that to myself)

Looking forward to future streams and the return!
Yeah the Nairs usually didn't work iirc lol, but if you get close enough after using Dtilt conditioning then you can hit her out of her jump for juicy punishes....also it's better vs crouch. But yeah overall I'm not defending how much I did it(not fully there yet after all + streamer mode sometimes), but I aam saying rules can be broken effectively.

Glad you enjoyed the stream, it was fun for me too =)
 

Orange5000

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Beautiful stream PP ^^. Subbed to someone for the first time ever during it, you’re doing the right thing and so many people recognize that and want to support you!

Also, have you considered the utility of marth’s reverse bair? It seems to me that, since it hits slightly up and behind marth, it keeps your opponent closer to you than if you just fair, and I feel like if you get the weak hit especially you can still follow up on DI away.
 

Dr Peepee

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I've never heard a stream called beautiful before. That's really nice, thank you! <3 And of course for the sub as well.

I do reverse Bair verrry occasionally but the weak hitbox and lag of Bair is a problem for consistency and good followups. It helps take jumps sometimes too due to that lag and following with Fair afterward which can be nice.
 

Kotastic

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Whenever Fox FH's in place or fading back, especially with bair, do you think the play is to beat whatever Fox does afterwards by either taking space or beating the approach after the FH?
 

Kopaka

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If you were practicing, not for streaming, but for preparing for a tournament, how much time would you spend practicing simple strings, and more complex strings?
 

RedmanSSBM

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The stream on Tuesday was great to watch! I look forward to the one today and I hope to see the trend of streaming continue. I was very impressed with how your energy levels were doing while you were playing. You even had to stop because your Wii crashed! lol

I really liked that you would explain why you made some decisions in neutral or in punish while playing as Marth. it's helpful to illustrate what points you try to make when you make them live. I also really look forward to whatever analysis you do on stream, I think that would be for some great insight. I also found it especially interesting that you went for so many run-off DJ dairs to catch Sheik DJ or up-b sweet spotting, but I guess you went for those because they are fun to do and it's just friendlies. Idk how much you would try to go for that in tournament.
 

aqualad33

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Hi PP,

first off, awesome stream, your marth is inspiring. I was wondering how do you win the Marth vs. Puff matchup? I can win neutral a good percentage of the time but I have soooo much trouble converting it into a kill whereas I feel like puff can get a kill off of like 3-4 neutral wins. So I'm lost as to where I need to focus, should I focus on my punish game more since puff shouldn't be living that long? Or do I need to accept that she will live forever and tighten up my neutral win percentage from ~66% to 80-90% and maintain stage position over looking for kill opportunities?

Thank you!
 

Dr Peepee

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Whenever Fox FH's in place or fading back, especially with bair, do you think the play is to beat whatever Fox does afterwards by either taking space or beating the approach after the FH?
If you can't Fair/Dtilt his extended leg or grab his landing lag or attack/pressure it, then yeah.

If you were practicing, not for streaming, but for preparing for a tournament, how much time would you spend practicing simple strings, and more complex strings?
Depends on my mood. I haven't fully solidified the routine I want yet(and I'm not entirely sure what's simple vs complex...2 step vs 3 step actions?). I think basic tech/more basic type stuff is probably like 10-15 minutes minimum, and then building to 15ish complex minimum and going farther with back and forth between the two sometimes/as I feel it.

The stream on Tuesday was great to watch! I look forward to the one today and I hope to see the trend of streaming continue. I was very impressed with how your energy levels were doing while you were playing. You even had to stop because your Wii crashed! lol

I really liked that you would explain why you made some decisions in neutral or in punish while playing as Marth. it's helpful to illustrate what points you try to make when you make them live. I also really look forward to whatever analysis you do on stream, I think that would be for some great insight. I also found it especially interesting that you went for so many run-off DJ dairs to catch Sheik DJ or up-b sweet spotting, but I guess you went for those because they are fun to do and it's just friendlies. Idk how much you would try to go for that in tournament.
Haha yeah, I think today was harder than Tuesday and I need to listen to my body when it gets mad at me, but overall it was super fun and rewarding both days. =)

Runoff DJ Dair is very good vs Sheik, but it needs to be mixed up intelligently and I don't have it all down/can't always focus enough to do it consistently. Sheiks just DJ near or to the edge a lot, and try to snap there if you were to WD to it, so it IS a good option. Just can't spam it obviously the same way every time. Like sometimes I need to WD to edge then DJ Dair or regrab or another mixup like let go up-B etc. Just didn't do any of that lol.

Hi PP,

first off, awesome stream, your marth is inspiring. I was wondering how do you win the Marth vs. Puff matchup? I can win neutral a good percentage of the time but I have soooo much trouble converting it into a kill whereas I feel like puff can get a kill off of like 3-4 neutral wins. So I'm lost as to where I need to focus, should I focus on my punish game more since puff shouldn't be living that long? Or do I need to accept that she will live forever and tighten up my neutral win percentage from ~66% to 80-90% and maintain stage position over looking for kill opportunities?

Thank you!
Thanks so much, I want to put out great content!

Learn pivot setups and percents, and learn when you can and can't JC/dash grab her. Also learn to juggle her better by counting her jumps(she has 5) and that will help with edgeguarding too to help you get kills. Poking her during edgeguard situation helps bring her into you, which you can Dair sometimes for example.
 

aqualad33

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Thanks so much, I want to put out great content!

Learn pivot setups and percents, and learn when you can and can't JC/dash grab her. Also learn to juggle her better by counting her jumps(she has 5) and that will help with edgeguarding too to help you get kills. Poking her during edgeguard situation helps bring her into you, which you can Dair sometimes for example.
You are doing a great job. Also want to thank you for being so active on smashboards while you have been recovering. I have often just watched this forum for tips in the past.

By pivot set ups do you mean just the dthrow vs fthrow ones or are there more? My problem with those if that if you aren't center stage puff will di out to avoid the fsmash that would kill her and if you throw her towards center stage she can often live it with good di even when you get the tipper.

I'll work on my juggling for her more, it's hard for me due to how mobile she is in the air, I think I just need to wait till she is closer to the ground. When she goes to top platform do you usually poke her or just hold center till she comes down, or does it depend.

For off stage poking. Do you mean just dtilt, or go out and fair/fair her as well?

Thanks again and hope you get well soon
 
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