Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Kotastic]

https://youtu.be/QCnjGb0B4jw

Any tips? Noob trying to learn and this is the first time I've ever been recorded thanksthanks

-Refine movement and control. You missed quite a few L-cancels and some sloppy wavedashes; movement can be better and can do without random errors (like doing a random d-smash). Biggest one to work on by far.
-Don't contest Sheik on the ledge unless you know what you're doing, or else you're giving her free percent. You do always want to at least pressure her in the corner, as you let her get away with rolls for free.
-Biggest thing in the Sheik mu at low level is to avoid getting DA/Grabbed. A good way to avoid that is to stuff that out with d-tilts/dash back/late tipper aerial in place.
-Hit harder and juggle better
-You got stuck in shield a lot, so learn not to panic-shield in tight situations. This connects with refining your movement. Especially work on this.
-Crouch Cancel more
-Ask specific questions! There's only so much people can help you with if you ask broad questions, so asking more specific questions will result in a higher chance of actually getting your question answered.

 

[cagliostro9]

PP just FYI the two furthest out dash attack hitboxes (I call them tip and near tip) beat puff ASDI down at 0. They beat true crouch at 48/54, respectively.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm having trouble deciding whether it's better to go in on ganon in neutral sometimes or to just dash dance around him forever. I feel like never approaching lets ganon set up his little waveland mixup game and he gets to dictate the pace of the game completely, and I don't like that. I've seen some marths use Nair to cross up ganon's shield and try to bait a bad oos option, but is that ever possible to do without risk, and is it even worth it? Should I just focus on my punishes instead of worrying about Neutral so that I can kill him off of 1 or 2 openings like he can do to me?

I guess another way of wording it is, how can I make ganon's life super hard?
Edit: harder than it already is sorry ganon mains

If he jumps you can get him or challenge him after he lands. If he ever comes forward with Fair or Bair or you can DD grab him. If he's kinda close you can Fair him out of the air. If he's on platforms you can space on him or just get under him and hit him sometimes vs getting out of the way so he can't be sure what move to use.

Nair crossup isn't worth it lol.

PP just FYI the two furthest out dash attack hitboxes (I call them tip and near tip) beat puff ASDI down at 0. They beat true crouch at 48/54, respectively.

Oh....either Puff can crouch out of aerials/WD earlier than I expected or I just spammed the move without fully knowing why it was good lol.

 

[HolidayMaker]

Ganon becomes easy once you realize you don't have to interact with his WL game, he sucks on the ground, and you can reliably reactively air to air all of his SHFFL approaches. Also extremely RTC-able, even more than Falcon.

 

[Sylarius]

Jumping is not bad because you can jump over Dtilt or use it to wall the other Marth out. But I generally advise against jumping because of the other Marth reacting with Fair or even Fsmash.

I don't know what Uthrow percents you're talking about. Sometimes waiting is okay because they're high up and you can react, and other times at low percents you might have to guess a little more.

I like Fsmash more when the other Marth wants to Dtilt in place or I call their jump and especially when they're cornered since they really can't deal with it then. Raw grab is more for grabbing their run in and dash away to me as well as the occasional Dtilt lag.

Grab I don't like as much at higher percents because I can't get as good of a punish, but if I can get a decent edgeguard out of grab I'll still throw them offstage.

Fthrow vs Uthrow at the edge is still good, but vs Marth in particular if they guess right on Uthrow they get to live which is not a great situation lol.

Fsmash is better on small stages lol, but so is swinging generally. They can't avoid your sword so much then. It also helps to minimize movement even further on YS/FoD because you don't have much room to move back at all times.

Hmm yes I did change a great deal as a person and player over the course of 2014 especially. I had some explicit things I wanted to do and feelings/general impressions I wanted to send to others, but the majority of it was internal work that I felt was absolutely essential to become the type of person I needed to be to better myself and be more connected with myself and others. If you are interested, you may find the book "Unlimited Power"(related documentary on Netflix "I am Not Your Guru") useful, as well as one called "The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem(related book the Psychology of Romantic Love.) Those works were quite helpful in getting me to address blocked emotions and thoughts and to decide who I wanted to be.

Goals are awesome, but make sure they are well-defined, reasonably timed, and you check your progress along the way. Also that the goals are very important to you. Many people know they're useful but don't fully engage themselves with them which causes frustration or disenchantment later.

Thank you for these answers! I promise I will read those books. Will try to do some studying and practice with your advice and see if I can understand these situations and strategies better than I currently do. And some self reflection as well. The way you see and think about mental things is really cool and encouraging.

 

[Clel42]

Shine turnips back, jump(FH) over the turnips(land on platforms and she won't be able to Fair you usually), run under them, and if you have to shield then either roll early(or buffer) and then change it up from there. Also be sure to shield DI away when she goes into your shield when you can.

Woah Marth has a shine???

 

[Kotastic]

Hey PP. No questions in particular, but I'm extremely grateful that you've taken times out of your day to give me advice and guidance throughout the past couple months. I've taken many of your advice to heart and still progressing in this game that I hope one day will manifest completely sometime future. You're such an inspiration to me, as you're of the main reasons why I continue to main Marth. Take care with your personal life, and happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Dr Peepee]

Woah Marth has a shine???

whups got my wires crossed =p

jab turnips, PS them, air grab(drop) them, FH over are all good options tho

Hey PP. No questions in particular, but I'm extremely grateful that you've taken times out of your day to give me advice and guidance throughout the past couple months. I've taken many of your advice to heart and still progressing in this game that I hope one day will manifest completely sometime future. You're such an inspiration to me, as you're of the main reasons why I continue to main Marth. Take care with your personal life, and happy Thanksgiving!

Always grateful to be able to give back! Happy Thanksgiving all =)

 

[cagliostro9]

maybe it's because so many of her aerials auto cancel? But I'd assume you knew that already lol.

 

[Kotastic]

Hey all, I finally did my first full match analysis, specifically on Sheik Marth since I'm struggling in that mu. My main goals to get out of this was to note maximized punish opportunities, principles of RPS, and some pro things in general. I did the PP route which is noting nearly every neutral exchange, as I want to go deeper with Melee knowledge. Feel free to point things out!

https://flowfeedback.com/feedback/RTd3t85tFB7TrS8mX

 

[Sylarius]

PP, from what I've read, Umbreon and you have done a lot of talking/theorycrafting/analysis (and practice?). My impression from Umbreon is that he thinks it should (mostly?) be possible to outplay a character within the game (and that is his aim when playing) and that generally, relying on reads is bad as it gives room to the other player to outplay you. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I may ask him as well.

I can't recall what you have said on the subject. It seems to me like reads are helpful and/or necessary in some situations (ex. here: https://youtu.be/RpDZTARVuSU?t=103 where you bait Armada into going for ledge) where you can't cover every option. Usually in situations where they have multiple outs, I'll try to cover most of them or the one that would put me in the worst position afterwards (ex. if they are high firefoxing, usually I will move to cover the top platform and leave the ledge, unless they have already shown they will go for the ledge very frequently in the past.)

I still get kind of confused to how reads should be used in the neutral game, if at all. Like wavedash fsmash and run up raw grab is usually a read, and I linked those grabs in the past. And the potential you can get from them is often worth going for. Is there some ideal situation in neutral where certain moves and grabs are ideal? How much do mixups or reads come into play in the neutral, and how much should they? Is it about risk/reward/unpredictability/demonstrating your willingness to do this?

Often Mango mentions reads in his videos (like here: https://youtu.be/uKFr0d4iFYE?t=64 ) and from what I've heard Druggedfox and you say about him, he tries to hit back harder and mixup the way he's attacking to make it harder to defend against. It was only when Crimson Blur mentioned he was adding much more 'iterations to his dash dance' vs Wizzy at WTFox that I actually, really noticed how much he was changing the way and timing he was attacking with (https://youtu.be/XBBmYy2DpEo?t=816 ).

I played Ryan Ford somewhat recently and kept getting bodied by the way he approached me, it felt like the only grabs I ever got on him were when I ran up and raw grabbed while he was dash dancing, which is kind of a half read/desperation to me. And a lot of the grabs you get on Leffen are from undershooting dtilt which can be a bait even if it's not intended to be, and you don't often protect yourself with double fair like I try to in efforts to be safer. Does this neutral game prowess come with practice, or analysis/understanding? More one than the other? After a certain point, is it less about being tighter than the other player and more about mixing it up better and being unpredictable in when you're going to attack and when you won't?

I think I play pretty reactionary vs spacies and don't assert myself often. I remember Umbreon said "wait until they hang themselves works against most players". I'll have to reread what he posted about the neutral game.

I thought this question would be shorter. Hope I explained my thought process clearly enough. I've asked similar questions in the past and I remember you saying that your grab here was "too early" (https://youtu.be/g8v_NgYou3k?t=462 ) but it seems to me like had he dashed forward instead of backwards, he would've been grabbed.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I've talked to Umbreon a few times privately about reads, and he agrees that against better characters you will need reads more though he prefers to minimize them. Against worse characters or in more advantageous situations you don't really need them, and I largely agree with that as well.

Reads vary according to situation, your own conditioning abilities, your opponents' responses to those, and the risk/reward of them. For example, a WD Fsmash like you mentioned is an extremely risky play that could potentially have very high reward(one or the other of you may die from this play if executed reasonably). But, you may run in grab at a certain time and barely get punished due to the other player not really expecting this so your risk reward on this read may be skewed differently. However, if you go for this run in grab in a similar situation a few times, your opponent may kill you for going for it just like the Fsmash. So, not only are some actions safer than others, but also how you use them is going to change their own risk/reward values. Added to this is how much risk one can tolerate. M2K tolerates risk about as much as a hypochondriac, but Mango often skews too far the other direction at times(though there are exceptions to both characterizations I just made such as M2K yolo Fsmashes and Mango camping).

Ultimately, I think building reads into your game will come from your own preferences. Do not discount any strategy offhand but learn the base strategies first. Then incorporate more mixups that change risk/reward to suit your preferences as you go along. This deepens your game and allows your personality to come out. Vs Doc you don't really need personality just Fair and sometimes Dtilt lol but you get the idea.

 

[maclo4]

So in michigan we just had our arcadian, and this 13-14 year old netplay falco won it pretty dominantly out of nowhere (Ossify is his tag). Something duck and the other commentators kept on saying was that he used a lot of execution tests to beat his opponents, which got me thinking what types of execution tests marth has. I'm not super familiar with the term but I think it basically means doing an option where there is a way to punish it, but maybe it relies on your opponent to either not know the correct counter option or not have the technical skill to beat it. Duck kept on talking as if these types of things are fraudulent strategies because it relies on your opponent not being good enough, would you agree with this? I feel like I do this a lot without realizing it with stuff like late fair->dash back because most foxes are not great at punishing it

 

[UnderTheKnife]

Tiny question: what is the best way to "shark" characters like Sheik, Marth, Peach, etc. while minimizing risk to oneself? A trend I've noticed in my recent matches is that I'm unable to cleanly follow up on juggles - at best, I'm trading hits where I can be winning, and at worst, a punish for me becomes reversed into a punish for the opponent. I seem to have trouble beating Sheik's falling aerials in particular, as one can see in a recent clip here: https://youtu.be/FYcj1AMApZM?t=5m33s (it's a small example, but an example nonetheless!)

I've looked at PP vids and I noticed that he seems to be a lot faster and more aggressive with his sharking, whereas I'm a bit more passive and grounded. After being hit in the air by falling aerials so many times, I'm hesitant to follow up, but that hesitancy results in my opponent escaping when they shouldn't, and missing out on important kills. PP/any sharking experts here have any ideas on this?

 

[HolidayMaker]

this 13-14 year old

This is fine.

netplay falco

You are all frauds.

 

[maclo4]

Lol hes really good I swear. Also our PR is arguably too large cause we added 6 extra spots this year, so the competition for arcadians got a lil easier

 

[Dr Peepee]

So in michigan we just had our arcadian, and this 13-14 year old netplay falco won it pretty dominantly out of nowhere (Ossify is his tag). Something duck and the other commentators kept on saying was that he used a lot of execution tests to beat his opponents, which got me thinking what types of execution tests marth has. I'm not super familiar with the term but I think it basically means doing an option where there is a way to punish it, but maybe it relies on your opponent to either not know the correct counter option or not have the technical skill to beat it. Duck kept on talking as if these types of things are fraudulent strategies because it relies on your opponent not being good enough, would you agree with this? I feel like I do this a lot without realizing it with stuff like late fair->dash back because most foxes are not great at punishing it

Yeah your definition is pretty much spot-on. The Fair dash back is one example, especially if that late Fair is on shield(many people think they can grab this). That being said, there isn't anything wrong with testing your opponent to see if they understand your character and simple but good strategies or techniques.

Tiny question: what is the best way to "shark" characters like Sheik, Marth, Peach, etc. while minimizing risk to oneself? A trend I've noticed in my recent matches is that I'm unable to cleanly follow up on juggles - at best, I'm trading hits where I can be winning, and at worst, a punish for me becomes reversed into a punish for the opponent. I seem to have trouble beating Sheik's falling aerials in particular, as one can see in a recent clip here: https://youtu.be/FYcj1AMApZM?t=5m33s (it's a small example, but an example nonetheless!)

I've looked at PP vids and I noticed that he seems to be a lot faster and more aggressive with his sharking, whereas I'm a bit more passive and grounded. After being hit in the air by falling aerials so many times, I'm hesitant to follow up, but that hesitancy results in my opponent escaping when they shouldn't, and missing out on important kills. PP/any sharking experts here have any ideas on this?

In that particular example, you can either meet him with Uair/Fair early or just DD/shield grab since this Sheik telegraphed the Dair. Also what I like to do is push a character toward the edge so they don't get so many drift options or access to the top platform which helps them out(going for extra damage like that DJ Uair you did would not be worth it usually then).

It's hard to give advice overall since juggling is kinda complicated, but I usually say to do SHs and then occasionally DJ into them with an aerial, dash minimally, and stay diagonally between them and the middle of the level but close enough to rise and hit them if that makes sense. This helps you push them to the side which gives you edgeguards which are nice.

Let me know if that's helpful.









Edit: Just wrote a fairly good post answering questions about conditioning, etc in my Falco thread. Hope some of you will check it out =)

 

[Sprenzy]

Hey pp how would you go on about setting up so you can dashback and punish?

 

[UnderTheKnife]

In that particular example, you can either meet him with Uair/Fair early or just DD/shield grab since this Sheik telegraphed the Dair. Also what I like to do is push a character toward the edge so they don't get so many drift options or access to the top platform which helps them out(going for extra damage like that DJ Uair you did would not be worth it usually then).

It's hard to give advice overall since juggling is kinda complicated, but I usually say to do SHs and then occasionally DJ into them with an aerial, dash minimally, and stay diagonally between them and the middle of the level but close enough to rise and hit them if that makes sense. This helps you push them to the side which gives you edgeguards which are nice.

Let me know if that's helpful.

Thanks PP! So, you're using the threat of SH/FH in that position to pressure them and make it more difficult to pursue any escape options they have? If so, that makes a lot of sense - that way, even if the juggle/punish ends, it still leaves you in a favorable position.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey pp how would you go on about setting up so you can dashback and punish?

In neutral? That's pretty broad and can change some between matchups. Did you have any specifics in mind?

Thanks PP! So, you're using the threat of SH/FH in that position to pressure them and make it more difficult to pursue any escape options they have? If so, that makes a lot of sense - that way, even if the juggle/punish ends, it still leaves you in a favorable position.

Yeah that's right, and if done correctly against Sheik and some other characters in certain positions it should be guaranteed hits and even better positioning.

 

[AirFair]

In response to the post you wrote about conditioning:

So when you think of effective conditioning, you observe the ways your opponent responds to your actions, and you will see how they attack and defend. This is where you would notice the kinds of things you mention here

Some players will have decided what they want to do before you do anything, some are waiting for you to get closer before doing anything or put yourself in some lag so they can act, and some just have their own timer they wait on, while others will take more or less time based on your own tempo. However some will be directly conditioned by your actions just like you're saying. The easiest way I can explain this is to isolate more factors and situations and actions and positions you believe to be useful and test test test. You are definitely on the right path though. This question is difficult and I certainly am welcome to you asking more about this now or later since it is really important.

Based on these responses, you can get your hits/punishes by using your threats (or punishing their attacks), which is really interesting stuff that has been discussed here many times before. What's even more interesting is how things change once you've gotten the hit, where the opponent may or may not change their approach/defense to adapt to you. When you approach them with the same movements as before, and their response change (or don't change, depending on their awareness), you can now "adjust with your opponent" as you've mentioned, meaning that you are now setting yourself up against the way they are now fighting you. When you combine this adjustment of your movements/spacing with a knowledge of their options, you can punish them again.

Does it go kind of like that? I feel like properly adjusting to an opponent over the course of a match does take a small amount of time, which makes effective movement really helpful.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Your opponent may not change purposefully or may also begin with a similar type of action as if they didn't actually adjust, but otherwise yes. While I prefer to think of this to myself as being the one in control of the interactions, in truth it's much more of a give and take so your opponent will be influencing you too(especially when they are more aware or in a situation they understand well).

But yes, continued punishment is about not only being a step ahead through manipulation but also through seeing the next layers in future interactions and getting free reads that build on your overall experience. Many players start to crumble if they get even somewhat outplayed, so this often is much easier in practice than in theory once you get a decent handle of the idea/abilities required.

 

[Kotastic]

So as I evolve my gameplay, I've been doing deep analyses of my own matches and others I can take example of. It fascinates me how deep Melee is and the intricacies I never realize when I'm playing constant friendlies.

I did that analysis of you and M2K on flowfeedback, and shortly after I attended a local and beat a really good Sheik player, took Faceroll to last stock in one of our games, and almost beat another Sheik player that's better than the Sheik player I beat. Additionally in friendlies, Sheik players I used to go 50/50 with has resulted to me going more like 80/20 my favor. I don't think it's a mere coincidence that my play has gotten significantly better in that matchup. From my analysis, almost every single one of my interactions feels like it has meaning. I'm swinging and dashing with reason. And I have so much to improve.

Yet, I have to ask if I'm going with the right direction with my analysis. Obviously there's some where there's obvious pointers what's a right or wrong answer, such as punish game flowchart. Others such as true neutral stances, where one character is not within their immediate threat range, has much more ambiguity. My current approaches to my analysis is identifying neutral interactions that doesn't have one correct answer, so basically everything. I note out RPS's in that neutral interaction and also note what beats that specific option, forced neutral interactions that exerts pressure (such as cornering or being directly next to each other as a result from a stalemate) and how that affects me and my opponents, and of course optimizing my punish game and edgeguarding. Is there perhaps more I can note from my analysis? I am in progress with my set vs. a good Fox player, but the one with you vs. M2K is the groundwork of my analysis.

Going on about conditioning, the one thing I am frustrated with some worse players is that they seldom mixup certain situations that I know for sure better players would. I feel slightly held back because I'm simply abusing them by doing the same option over and over again. I have some envy to good Falco players because lasers are a direct way for them to obviously exert pressure and it influences virtually everyone. With Marth, some players just don't feel pressured no matter what I do. While I still win anyways, I leave feeling unsatisfied that I couldn't be able to manipulate them like a Falco player would do in an easier way. I know this is a somewhat petty question, but I just feel unsatisfied with practicing against lower leveled players aside from practicing punish game because I walk away learning very little with my neutral game.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I would not stress about your analysis right now. You've seen good jumps in progress. If you want to really stay ahead, just keep checking your process and see if it continues to give you results. So far it looks like it does =p

Vs lower level players, you have to get more creative. Instead of just winning the same way repeatedly, try winning neutral in new ways. Try to work on your reads, or movements you aren't as used to. Try other combos. Try new DIs. There is a lot you can do and this experimentation can also let the weaker player get more interaction with you and often get better results so they aren't as disheartened as they could be. Also, reinforcing your strong plays is still useful so that repetitive action does have a useful purpose as well.

 

[quixotic]

Dr.PP, how can marth get down from the top platform vs marth/sheik players who just wait below you/don't commit to full hops?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Shield drop is one way, and runoff the platform(mixing FF with DJ waveland back onto the platform) is another, and if you're on say YS/FoD you can often hit the other character trying to hit you with runoff aerials since they have to be close either in the air or on the ground when using many moves such as Bair. If you have a particular situation you'd like to link for me to go into that can help.

 

[lokt]

Shield drop is one way, and runoff the platform(mixing FF with DJ waveland back onto the platform) is another, and if you're on say YS/FoD you can often hit the other character trying to hit you with runoff aerials since they have to be close either in the air or on the ground when using many moves such as Bair. If you have a particular situation you'd like to link for me to go into that can help.

At the beginning of this match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96yk9SoTOwA&ab_channel=SDMTV

I think I should have not shielded on the first platform after the first waveland to get more time. I bait out a full hop on the left but I still can't get down safely.

also oops i used my old smashboards account, this is the same person replying just made a new account so ppl knew who i was

 

[InauspiciousPio]

How do you feel your Marth will be when you come back? (PLEASE COME BACK WE LOVE YOU)

 

[Dr Peepee]

At the beginning of this match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96yk9SoTOwA&ab_channel=SDMTV

I think I should have not shielded on the first platform after the first waveland to get more time. I bait out a full hop on the left but I still can't get down safely.

also oops i used my old smashboards account, this is the same person replying just made a new account so ppl knew who i was

Looks like that shield was actually pretty good since the Sheik could have Baired you otherwise. Your first shield at the beginning of the match wasn't necessary though. You could have reacted if Sheik wanted to DJ aerial you so that was a bigger problem to me.

How do you feel your Marth will be when you come back? (PLEASE COME BACK WE LOVE YOU)

My Marth will be fine. I'll need to learn some percent stuff, relearn some zoning, and super map out the platform tech chase punish trees against FF'ers but otherwise I think everything else will hold up(I still will need to SDI Uthrow Uair but I didn't really do that before lol). No worries!

 

[HolidayMaker]

What do you do about Sheik getting the top platform to escape your combos/juggles?

Against FFers I feel like up air is often enough to keep at least a big advantage going but against sheik it almost never leads to much of anything unless you can get one rising through the platform.

 

[Mournvel]

I'm sort of just starting out as marth, but what aspect should I focus on for now?

 

[JacK from Canada]

Hello I am a wanna be Marth main who has 3 questions. A little about me first cause why not, I'm Jack and I live in Ontario and I've been playing Melee for almost 2 years now (in that time I was a Peach main) recently I have gone through a major character crisis and feel like Marth may be the answer to my problem. The only issue is its to little to late, I have a big tournament coming up this Saturday and decided I'd go Marth yesterday

So I would like to ask you 3 questions

1) What are the essentials that I should learn - like what do I 100% need to be able to execute and know how to do? (tech, punish game etc.)

2) How do I Dash dance properly? Why do I Dash Dance? - my reason is I know HOW to DD but not why or when or what its really for I just go back and forth. So why do I do it and is there any way to practice it?

3) How do I turn off autopilot? - I never fully focus on the match I'm just playing not thinking, not watching, just doing. What do?

Even if you read this I'm grateful

- JacK

 

[Dr Peepee]

What do you do about Sheik getting the top platform to escape your combos/juggles?

Against FFers I feel like up air is often enough to keep at least a big advantage going but against sheik it almost never leads to much of anything unless you can get one rising through the platform.

You should avoid letting Sheik get to the top platform whenever possible unless she's at higher mid percents and above because the combo will break like you said. Either cut her off from going there or just use a side throw instead.

I'm sort of just starting out as marth, but what aspect should I focus on for now?

Get your basic tech down, learn some basic CG and punish trees, and don't have excessive movement. You'll be alright.

Hello I am a wanna be Marth main who has 3 questions. A little about me first cause why not, I'm Jack and I live in Ontario and I've been playing Melee for almost 2 years now (in that time I was a Peach main) recently I have gone through a major character crisis and feel like Marth may be the answer to my problem. The only issue is its to little to late, I have a big tournament coming up this Saturday and decided I'd go Marth yesterday

So I would like to ask you 3 questions

1) What are the essentials that I should learn - like what do I 100% need to be able to execute and know how to do? (tech, punish game etc.)

2) How do I Dash dance properly? Why do I Dash Dance? - my reason is I know HOW to DD but not why or when or what its really for I just go back and forth. So why do I do it and is there any way to practice it?

3) How do I turn off autopilot? - I never fully focus on the match I'm just playing not thinking, not watching, just doing. What do?

Even if you read this I'm grateful

- JacK

1. WD, SH Fair, run cancel/WD Dtilt, CG, a few juggle and combo setups would probably help as well as some kill setups like Fthrow vs Uthrow by the edge vs spacies as a 50/50.

2. Practice doing 1-2 dashes and then either nothing, a WD, a jump, or an approach/retreat. That sort of mixup game has a lot of depth and imagining how an opponent would beat each variation of what you'd do out of that dash(es) will be pretty helpful for you getting started.

3. The above will help you with that. It's like upgrading your autopilot to help you make better decisions more easily.

 

[JacK from Canada]

OMG thank you for replying to me. Means the world HUGE fan.

I have a question don't know if its OK to ask cause this is the Marth board, but I'll give it a shot....

What is your opinion on low tiers/viability? ​

Like not really in general, more like sub top 100 to local level. Like do you feel it's stupid to put time into #20 or lower characters?

Again sorry I know its a Marth board but I'd love to get an amazing players perspective on the topic.

(Also I have issues sticking with a character any tips?)​

-JacK

 

[Dr Peepee]

Low tiers can do fine if we're talking about outside of the top 100/local level. Generally you can solve problems with them by just getting better until you encounter players that make that really hard at the top lol. It's fine to put time into them anyway even if you don't main them since you can learn more about the game through them.

If you want to stick with a character, I think either finding emotional inspiration or just going with what character you think is best/best for you often works for people. It doesn't mean never playing other characters, just spending ~80% of your time on one.

 

[DonOwens]

PP, I would love any insight you have on controllers. Do you have a preference between the legacy controllers or legacy vs. smash 4 controllers? Does your controller have to be perfect with snapback, shield dropping, PODE, etc?
Thanks for contributing to the thread and keeping up with it, commendable and appreciated.

 

[maclo4]

PP, I would love any insight you have on controllers. Do you have a preference between the legacy controllers or legacy vs. smash 4 controllers? Does your controller have to be perfect with snapback, shield dropping, PODE, etc?
Thanks for contributing to the thread and keeping up with it, commendable and appreciated.

Not that pp shouldn't answer this but just personally I wanna make sure the marth thread stays about marth. He also answers more general questions on twitter

 

[DonOwens]

Not that pp shouldn't answer this but just personally I wanna make sure the marth thread stays about marth. He also answers more general questions on twitter

I knew this would come up. Yes the title says ask about marth but the first post clearly details "other questions are welcome."
If Dr. PP, M.D. wants to answer the question, let him and if not, no worries. Let PPMD moderate.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP, I would love any insight you have on controllers. Do you have a preference between the legacy controllers or legacy vs. smash 4 controllers? Does your controller have to be perfect with snapback, shield dropping, PODE, etc?
Thanks for contributing to the thread and keeping up with it, commendable and appreciated.

I assume legacy means old controllers and if so yes I like those more but tend not to care terribly overall. I haven't fully gotten into the controller hunt because that was starting up more as I was stopping so I don't have a full opinion about it =p

And yes I would rather this thread stayed about Marth or improvement, but occasional other topics are okay with me.

 

[DonOwens]

I assume legacy means old controllers and if so yes I like those more but tend not to care terribly overall. I haven't fully gotten into the controller hunt because that was starting up more as I was stopping so I don't have a full opinion about it =p

And yes I would rather this thread stayed about Marth or improvement, but occasional other topics are okay with me.

Appreciate the answer, it was what I was expecting. I think just the information that one of the highest tier competitors in his time would not fuss over a controller is helpful for the community. Hopefully my one small question won't derail any conversations.
Thanks Dr. PP