Can we talk for a moment about my favorite move of Ridley's, his down-smash?

JayLow618

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#1
Been playing insane amounts of Ridley recently, and after reading through this forum and other places about Ridley meta, I'm surprised to see that almost no one is talking about his dsmash. What gives?

The little hop Ridley does at release is amazing for punishing people trying to punish you for using a smash attack. Basically you start the animation, they rush in with a dash attack or something, you hop to avoid the attack and come down right on top of them.

It kills at fairly low percentages and the range is just insane.

And to go off my first point, the lag between release and damage is perfect for interrupting rhythm; very easy to bait someone into a roll and catch them the moment their i-frames are up.

Anyway, should go without saying that this attack is a sleeper and should be considered more often if people aren't already using it the same way I am.
 
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#2
I feel Ridley has some strong Smash attacks overall that give strong utility between the three of them, but I think the reason they don't get talked about as much in meta is because you generally just hold on to them when it comes to punish or closing out a stock. If someone is asking for advice on character match-ups rarely is "start throwing out smash attacks" going to be the proper solution to help them do better since presumably they're already going for them if the opportunity presents itself, and they want to know more how to help work towards that finisher. If someone is asking for more general advice like how to punish excessive rolling then that's probably when you'll start hearing people bring up down smash more.

DSmash I actually use a good bit more than FSmash on average because of the great range and it being able to cover rolls. If someone starts getting predictable with rolls either in neutral or as ledge recovery then it's a strong punish and it's my usually option for following up a Skewer since it seems to cover a lot of option out of the crumpled state.
 

E.G.G.M.A.N.

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#3
Anyway, should go without saying that this attack is a sleeper and should be considered more often if people aren't already using it the same way I am.
It's not used much because it's not a very good move overall. It's slow compared to his other two smash attacks, and not all that strong given how slow it is. The best way to use it is exactly the opposite: not very often. It's basically a move you use for the occasional "Hail Mary" roll catch when your opponent is at kill percents. If they're just throwing out a raw dash attack I'd rather f-smash them.
 

IsmaR

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#4
I'm a bit biased because I hate the move so much when it's on K. Rool or Incineroar (who have armor and jump higher/dodge much more, respectively)

Though I can't say I don't love the move for covering tech chasing options (it being the best/my favorite move to use following a Skewer especially).
 

Predatoria

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#5
I found a pretty good use for it.

I noticed I tend to miss a lot of side smashes when players are freefalling or landing near me on a platform. I know they're going to land so I can time the smash, but I often found they could avoid my side smash just by drifting left or right since its hitbox is quite tiny.

The down smash seems a lot more effective for punishing players when they end up in this scenario, or a scenario where they've just air dodged and are on their way down from up high.

A good example of this would be a Krool who recovered up past the edge of the platform. When they're landing, I like to stand around where they look like they're going to land and do a down smash. It removes some of the guesswork and seems a bit more reliable than going for the side smash.
 

E.G.G.M.A.N.

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#7
I noticed I tend to miss a lot of side smashes when players are freefalling or landing near me on a platform. I know they're going to land so I can time the smash, but I often found they could avoid my side smash just by drifting left or right since its hitbox is quite tiny.
In that situation you're the one who's in control. You should be mixing them up, not the other way around. I don't know if you're charging your smash early and waiting for them to come down(???), but if you just follow them around without committing to anything, they can't do much. They can DI left or right a bit, but eventually they'll be too low to pass over you anymore, and that's when you f-smash them, before they can finish landing. Anyone recovering onto the same platform as Ridley should be dead, every single time.
 

Volfang

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#8
Ridley's down smash can be a great tool for mixups due to its range and overall reliable kill potential. I strongly recommend considering it as an option if you feel like you've been up/fsmashing too much.
 

TriforceBun

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#9
It's a nice move. Leaves Ridley a little open but that tiny hop has saved me numerous times--it beats out opponents who spot-dodge too early or have short attacks that Ridley can hop.

My favorite KO move of Ridley's, though, is his Up-B going forward or backward. Aggressive opponents seem to always get caught off-guard by the speed of this move, even in Elite Smash Quick Battles.
 

Cutie Gwen

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#10
Yeah this move is very good if you end up using it on someone who's holding the ledge, I've been playing casually with my friends and they genuinely got upset due to how many options down smash would cover. Drop off the ledge? Very risky as you lose I-frames so not really worth it. Neutral getup? Gets hit by it. Get up attack? The hop dodges the attack (which for those who don't know, all get up attacks are invincible now) and punishes by hitting the sweetspot. Roll? Most rolls don't go far enough to avoid the full attack due to Ridley's sizeable wings. Jump? Still gets hit by it. My friends end up waiting it out on the ledge to think but if you memorize how long the I-frames last, you've got a good chance of hitting them JUST when they expire
 

Predatoria

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#11
Yeah this move is very good if you end up using it on someone who's holding the ledge, I've been playing casually with my friends and they genuinely got upset due to how many options down smash would cover. Drop off the ledge? Very risky as you lose I-frames so not really worth it. Neutral getup? Gets hit by it. Get up attack? The hop dodges the attack (which for those who don't know, all get up attacks are invincible now) and punishes by hitting the sweetspot. Roll? Most rolls don't go far enough to avoid the full attack due to Ridley's sizeable wings. Jump? Still gets hit by it. My friends end up waiting it out on the ledge to think but if you memorize how long the I-frames last, you've got a good chance of hitting them JUST when they expire
I haven't had much luck with this, but I'm probably doing it incorrectly.

Whenever I try to stand near a ledge and down smash, I'll typically end up just getting hit by their get up attack or I'll hit them while they're invinsible.

Exactly where do you stand and when do you execute the down smash to best make use of it as a ledge guarding attack, and when is the best time to use it? It's something I haven't been able to figure out and put to good use.


It's a nice move. Leaves Ridley a little open but that tiny hop has saved me numerous times--it beats out opponents who spot-dodge too early or have short attacks that Ridley can hop.

My favorite KO move of Ridley's, though, is his Up-B going forward or backward. Aggressive opponents seem to always get caught off-guard by the speed of this move, even in Elite Smash Quick Battles.
I do that a lot too, but typically only once or twice a match. I usually get it off on opponents who are falling or trying to recover, exactly at the perfect moment they don't expect it. I'll start going up like I'm trying to hit them and wait for them to DI off to one side or the other. Then the perfect time to strike is here!
 
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Cutie Gwen

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#12
I haven't had much luck with this, but I'm probably doing it incorrectly.

Whenever I try to stand near a ledge and down smash, I'll typically end up just getting hit by their get up attack or I'll hit them while they're invinsible.

Exactly where do you stand and when do you execute the down smash to best make use of it as a ledge guarding attack, and when is the best time to use it? It's something I haven't been able to figure out and put to good use.
I realize I failed to mention that it's a charged down smash specifically for me. Stand slightly next to the ledge, that's the best spot I find. It's something that takes timing so I can't really say anything other than look closely at your opponent, when they stop flashing, then they're vulnerable. If they move, let go of the attack
 

Predatoria

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#13
I realize I failed to mention that it's a charged down smash specifically for me. Stand slightly next to the ledge, that's the best spot I find. It's something that takes timing so I can't really say anything other than look closely at your opponent, when they stop flashing, then they're vulnerable. If they move, let go of the attack
So like just outside of the range of their getup attack, a few meters away such that Ridley's wing hits them after they do the get up attack, but their get up attack is out of range?
 

Cutie Gwen

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#14
So like just outside of the range of their getup attack, a few meters away such that Ridley's wing hits them after they do the get up attack, but their get up attack is out of range?
No, if you time the hop right then you outright dodge the getup attack, although that works too. I usually do it for the extra security on rolls
 

Predatoria

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#15
No, if you time the hop right then you outright dodge the getup attack, although that works too. I usually do it for the extra security on rolls
I had NO IDEA you could do that! This is a major revelation that I've been totally missing. I will be trying this after work today immediately.

How do you typically react if they decide to jump up instead? Can your down smash be punished if they choose this option.
 

Cutie Gwen

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#16
I had NO IDEA you could do that! This is a major revelation that I've been totally missing. I will be trying this after work today immediately.

How do you typically react if they decide to jump up instead? Can your down smash be punished if they choose this option.
If it's punishable by jump then my friends are bad at it because whenever they try they still get hit. When I start charging down smash, I put every bit of focus I have on the character who's on the ledge, if they move even slightly outside of the ledge hanging animation, that's generally the time to let go
 

Predatoria

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#17
If it's punishable by jump then my friends are bad at it because whenever they try they still get hit. When I start charging down smash, I put every bit of focus I have on the character who's on the ledge, if they move even slightly outside of the ledge hanging animation, that's generally the time to let go
Ohhhh, right, because if they jump up, they have no immunity frames. I definitely gotta try this out. I've just been hanging back and using plasma breath on ledge hangers because I wasn't sure how else to guard the ledge. Thanks for all the replies and tips!
 
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#18
It was mentioned earlier but Down-smash is really better used when your opponent don't expect it. If we were to compare it to his other smashes it's really not that great but it's not a bad move as it has some uses.

F-smash and U-smash are just too good for most of the situations where you might want to use them, they're faster, way stronger and have less lag, especially F-smash. It's still good for get-ups whether you know or don't know what they're going to do, you can go for it and expect a punish. The wings intangibility is good too so you get rewarded for more spacing but it's unsafe as heck and has no shield damage or pressure.

But if you ever get into a situation when someone stay on the ledge, use F-tilt really. It's faster and send them in a better angle and might also kill them, U-smash is just gonna send them up and is more reactable. Well unless they roll on reaction.
 
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