Can Sonic CG Ness...?

[Browny]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2a72OVjUWaI

looks like it...

btw i tested EIDI, smash DI and all sorts of junk, trying to escape by grabbing and everything.

 

[Tenki]

oooh.

cool.

dash-grab?

hey, looks like you got the whole frame counting thing down pretty well lol.

Another way to test if you have enough time to grab is after Ness escapes, hold shield on both controllers and count the frame difference for each character's shield to come up.

 

[Jim Morrison]

My Hero!!!

 

[Browny]

the difference is huge but I think what i did is pretty definitive. There is nothing quicker than a spotdodge, since i cannot count a single frame between hitstun and invulnerability when i play it back at like 10% speed of what that video is at.

Also remember my frames are counter on 1/4 speed training, so while this video suggests there is a 4 frame window to regrab, its closer to 2-3. But since you are actually buffering the dash grab that isnt a problem there is ample time to press grab

Gf2tw dont call me a hero lol i feel terrible for doing this since Ness is one of my mains too :/

 

[Jim Morrison]

your not your hero, but you sure are mine

 

[Napilopez]

Oh teh snapz, you rock DJ XD. Even if its only on char, I appreciate it, because well, I for one hate fighting ness =P.

Thanks for providing video proof too.

Now I just wonder if this works on any other character. Any other characters out there that have particularly long grab release animations? Perhaps theres a list on grab realease animation lengths? Maybe we have an "almost" inescapable chaingrab like this on another char.

How did you say you did this again? Perhaps you should post it on the OP. You buffered a run from the grab release, and then went into a a running grab?

w00t somethng new =PP

Edit: Dag yo a bunch of posts while I was writing this haha, nvm you explained yourself XD =P

 

[Browny]

Ness' is by far the longest timed, and shortest ranged grab release and with only a 2-3 frame window to regrab i think its a fair bet this doesnt work on anyone else. Most other characters who get released close to sonic can actually grab him before he even grabs them since sonic has to move forward while they can just stand still and mash grab, and a standing grab is almost 2x faster than a dash grab

 

[Napilopez]

Ness' is by far the longest timed, and shortest ranged grab release and with only a 2-3 frame window to regrab i think its a fair bet this doesnt work on anyone else. Most other characters who get released close to sonic can actually grab him before he even grabs them since sonic has to move forward while they can just stand still and mash grab, and a standing grab is almost 2x faster than a dash grab

Hmm okay, that makes sense. This is kinda random, but if you find yourself doing some more frame data some time, could you test how many frames exactly are there from a sideB into a grab? When I was doing some testing in 1/4x yesterday, I noticed there are at least a couple of frames after you input a SideB before you can go right into the standing grab, where you are vulnerable. I guess im wondering whether this is quicker than a running grab. you would test inputting a sideB an then inputting a grab as quick as possible.

I doubt using a SideB grab would yield anything interesting, but I guess we should check it out, because it give you that forward boost when you use it, perhaps that could aid in something.

Anyone who could test this I'd appreciate it, I'm back in college, so I can't do anything.

 

[thecatinthehat]

lol My cousin just recently switched to Ness as a main. This is gonna be priceless.

 

[JayBee]

mwahahaha! my friend plays Ness too. I'm gonna make him quit brawl now. he already has trouble fighting my sonic as it is...

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

This is actually old news. This was found right around the same time they realized Marth could chain grab Ness. I thought everyone else here knew.. The frame data is nice to know though. I know I mess this up a lot.

 

[SonicX580]

Hahaha that's funny I can't wait to show that to my rival thinking about his recation priceless (he mains Ness).

 

[Chis]

Hahaha that's funny I can't wait to show that to my rival thinking about his recation priceless (he mains Ness).

So you do have some one to play with...

 

[Kinzer]

Does this work on Lucas as well?

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Does this work on Lucas as well?

I'm almost positive it doesn't.

 

[ROOOOY!]

You're ALL too slow.

Seriously, this was on the Ness board, on the death grab thread.

I've known this for months.

MONTHS.

 

[Chis]

You're ALL too slow.

Seriously, this was on the Ness board, on the death grab thread.

I've known this for months.

MONTHS.

Too slow?

 

[Espy Rose]

You're ALL too slow.

Seriously, this was on the Ness board, on the death grab thread.

I've known this for months.

MONTHS.

Makes me glad I didn't comment on it earlier. I thought I'd heard about it somewhere before the thread was made, but I kinda just brushed it off.

:jigglypuf

 

[Napilopez]

Lol, I spend tons of times on smashboards, yet I never hear anyone mention it, even if we're discussing matchups against ness. So thanks anyways, frame data makes things bettah.

P.S.
I still think theres some secret Sonic tech or strat we haven't discovered... Or something we know that hasnt been put to use adequately... SideBs weirdness looks suspicious to me!

 

[Tenki]

like a side-B>footstool?

 

[Jim Morrison]

I don't think we should look for footstool. In fact, look at the whole different direction. Upwards! There must be something with spring.

 

[Napilopez]

Lol, well I know I personally have to put that to use, because I never try to do it, mostly because I fail at jablocking. =p But that SideB footstool to dair punisher sounds nice, lulz.

I mean more like the glitchyness of SideB. Id like to figure out why it does what what it does... Shy it can be shield/grab cancelled all the way until its fully charged,

Hmm... just something I don't think anyone has mentioned, but you know how SideB to roll give you a "longer" roll? Longer in quotations because I know its really only the boost from SideB+ roll length.

But I was thinking you could couple it with a glide toss, to increase Sonic's glide toss length even further. =P Not tremendously useful, but good to know.

 

[Tenki]

There's more that can be done, since you can chase their getup action, except you're floating in the air.

I personally like doing side-B > AFSJ (aerial footstool) > spin charge.

Eheh. I have some weird spring moves too.

spring-cancelled aerial combos are just the beginning D;

@side-B glide toss
I guess you didn't catch the explanation for that D;

When you do a side-B>shield from a fulldash, it's like you instantaneously do the slide you would if you did a shield-slide from a fulldash, so there's no real difference except graphics and sound and .. frames.

Besides, if you're throwing forward, jump-cancelled throws are sooo much better for forward throws. Speaking of which, I'll add some cool moves I found with bananas to the banana thread.

 

[aeghrur]

Yeah, side-B roll has been mentioned before. Anthinus made a vid on it. Shame he never posts here anymore. =/ If he does, I never see him.

 

[Browny]

This isnt old. when marths was found everyone thought he was CG'able by the entire cast. however spot-dodging and EIDI allows ness to escape everything that isnt bowser/marth/charizard. their most updated thread on GR's has no mention of what sonic can do.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Either way, I've known about this since then. So,

 

[ShadowLink84]

This is proof that Sonic's dash speed is broken.

Spoiler

It should be faster

 

[Napilopez]

@side-B glide toss
I guess you didn't catch the explanation for that D;

When you do a side-B>shield from a fulldash, it's like you instantaneously do the slide you would if you did a shield-slide from a fulldash, so there's no real difference except graphics and sound and .. frames.

Besides, if you're throwing forward, jump-cancelled throws are sooo much better for forward throws. Speaking of which, I'll add some cool moves I found with bananas to the banana thread.

Well isn't that what I was saying? SideB gives you an instant boost, and then if you add in the actual glide toss length, you'd have a psuedo extralong glidetoss. The toss itself isnt really any longer, it just looks longer and covers more distance because of the SideB, basically how a stutter stepped fsmash doesnt really have more range, it just travels a longer distance and looks like it has more range.

I don't know about jump canceled throws though =P

This is proof that Sonic's dash speed is broken.

Spoiler

It should be faster

IMO, his speed should be anough to at least mast the quickest displacement or moving object in the game. That would be more representative of his speed. Except for perhaps a couple of projectiles, such as foxs laser.

 

[Ref]

Just some stuff. The thread ROOOOY! saw months ago was quickly purged, Marth and Charizard were the only ones right on that list

This isnt old. when marths was found everyone thought he was CG'able by the entire cast. however spot-dodging and EIDI allows ness to escape everything that isnt bowser/marth/charizard. their most updated thread on GR's has no mention of what sonic can do.

This is wrong it helps with anyone that holds you above the ground it seems. This means Marth Ness can no longer be chained by Marth, This may or may not matter for bowser and the fact he has to dash grab already with his huge dash grab range.
Everyone Knew Ness was chain grabbable by Marth and charizard only.

EIDI was discovered 10-25-2008 by Me.

Charizard is the only one who can 100% re grab Ness.

Ness should DI away, not try this fancy tech when sonic is holding him. The Ness in this video was trying this tech that is most likely the reason he got re grabbed. I tested sonic before and I could not do it.

So summary.

1. The Ness is DIing wrong
2. Ness is TOO SLOW.
3. The thread ROOOOY! saw months ago was false. If you read it carefully it said Wario too, which is wrong.
4. We Need a better test this time with the Ness DIing right.
5. djbrowny's statement is wrong.
6. EIDI helps on only characters that hold Ness in the Air.
7. Marth can no longer chain grab Ness.

Right DI is holding away from sonic and Spot dodging.

 

[Napilopez]

Care to try this again DJ, or anyone? I dont see how DIing away couldve saved Ness here from frame data, but yea.

 

[Ref]

Care to try this again DJ, or anyone? I dont see how DIing away couldve saved Ness here from frame data, but yea.

DI saves you from this because the further away you are from a dashing grab, the later it lands, the more time you have to spot doge.

 

[Browny]

Ref instead of discrediting what i say, why dont you actually go to the effort to prove your point as i did with my video. Theres nothing more i can do to prove my point, no amount of DI made any difference

 

[aeghrur]

Didn't you use EIDI too DJ?

 

[Ref]

Ref instead of discrediting what i say, why dont you actually go to the effort to prove your point as i did with my video. Theres nothing more i can do to prove my point, no amount of DI made any difference

I'm just saying that many parts of that one post is wrong. Ness could avoid everything before EIDI was discovered it was only a way out of Marth's. No video proof could prove what I said in the counter argument to your post, only knowledge of the past and Now could discredit your post and it did.

EIDI was dicovered two days ago, you cannot say people thought everyone can chain Ness because they didn't. Ness is now only chained by Charizard and Bowser if Bowser can make Ness ground break. Sonic is pending on more testing.

DI away. Don't try this fancy tech it'll only help on Marth who holds you in the air and maybe Bowser.

I have no status on whether Sonic can Chain Ness. I cannot Test right now. If I could I would

re read my post back there carefully. Before you respond.

 

[Chis]

How can you DI out of a grab release?

 

[Ref]

Hold away or hold in, you can DI grab releases but you can't DI Jump grab breaks.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I don't think we should look for footstool. In fact, look at the whole different direction. Upwards! There must be something with spring.

a couple of months ago, i was almost convinced that there was some way to cancel the bounce stun from making contact with the HA, nuthin doin

 

[da K.I.D.]

and WTF is EIDI never heard of this

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

and WTF is EIDI never heard of this

Extra Inch DI

It allows Ness to escape Marth's CG. Hold up and away on the D-stick and mash the Cstick away. Basically Smash DI from a grab but people learned the directions.

 

[PKNintendo]

Hold away or hold in, you can DI grab releases but you can't DI Jump grab breaks.

So is this legit?