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Can someone please explain what is happening technically

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
93
Hey guys, big time smash fan. I am at my wit's end with Smash Ultimate. I have two dilemmas when playing online.

1. When in wireless mode in quickplay I feel like I have better control, less input lag, but my matches are really laggy overall. I'll do a move, it stutters move comes out wrong or I'll do two in a row. Stuff like that. I get it, it's wireless, and it wouldn't be so bad if not for:

2. I play lan hard wired online in quickplay. When I do this the matches are butter smooth but I have about a half second input lag no matter what. Hit button, wait and then the move comes out. Matches are so bad hard wired that I have to switch to wireless again.


Keep in mind I have 2.4 g wireless, 100 mbs dl, and 10 mbs upload speeds. It's not the modem, I actually got a guy in to check specifically.

I really need some expert advice. My only saving grace is local play, which thank the Sakurai God, because I at least know I don't blow at the game and it brings me some enjoyment.

Any technical reason help or explanation would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks again.
 
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MG_3989

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
1,130
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-8397-3391-6411
The only thing I can think of Ian your Lan Adaptar or your Ethernet cable. I mean you have fast internet so it shouldn’t be a problem especially when the matches are running smoothly. There will always be a little input delay online but it shouldn’t be noticeable especially if it’s not noticeable in WiFi. I haven’t had this problem so I know the game can run very smoothly online with LAN it’s gotta be hardware
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
275
Are you playing on the TV both times? #2 sounds like the normal problem with TVs that dont have all their image processing bull**** disabled.
 

saiyan.

Feint - Snake Eyes
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
137
Location
Medical Mechanica
Hey guys, big time smash fan. I am at my wit's end with Smash Ultimate. I have two dilemmas when playing online.

1. When in wireless mode in quickplay I feel like I have better control, less input lag, but my matches are really laggy overall. I'll do a move, it stutters move comes out wrong or I'll do two in a row. Stuff like that. I get it, it's wireless, and it wouldn't be so bad if not for:

2. I play lan hard wired online in quickplay. When I do this the matches are butter smooth but I have about a half second input lag no matter what. Hit button, wait and then the move comes out. Matches are so bad hard wired that I have to switch to wireless again.


Keep in mind I have 2.4 g wireless, 100 mbs dl, and 10 mbs upload speeds. It's not the modem, I actually got a guy in to check specifically.

I really need some expert advice. My only saving grace is local play, which thank the Sakurai God, because I at least know I don't blow at the game and it brings me some enjoyment.

Any technical reason help or explanation would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks again.
Listen, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that it is most definitely not hardware related. All you have to do is take the Ethernet cord that you are using and plug it into another device, computer or another gaming system and then run a speed test on speedtest.net and then unplug the Ethernet and run the same test with Wi-Fi.
You can’t do a trace route to any Nintendo server to see if theirs some sort of latency or interference lag on your behalf. Why? Because unlike most gaming companies who have dedicated servers for their online services Nintendo does not. Nintendo is known for crappy online and the main reason as to why this could be happening to you is that it’s all peer-to-peer, simply put if the other person is lagging or has a delay due to slow internet, guess what? So will you. Also, your internet speed means nothing with smash online because it’s peer-to-peer your 100mbs is irrelevant. Honestly you could try to rule out if it’s hardware related but latency or your ping is based off of the random person and yourself as to how far you are from one another not how far you are from Nintendo’s dedicated servers because they have 0. Every match won’t run like butter if the other guy has crappy internet or lives on the other side of the planet. To let you know how garbage p2p is 500 people could be on one server with perfect connections and 1 person could be lagging like crazy and all 500 people would have issues.
Try doing a hard reset on your router, make sure it’s not the Ethernet cord, controller, controller adapter, or Ethernet adapter and also try disabling your router firewall. Best of luck and keep in mind if you lag every game, it’s you and not the other person but if it’s one match and not the other it was them. Stability is everything with p2p and you should have better performance wired.

//EDIT: Also try and play another online switch game and see if you have the same results, I recommend Mario Kart 8 Deluxe as it’s also p2p with more people your connection has to send/receive data from.
 
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Mischiiii

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
117
Location
Germany (Hessen)
I think most of the input lag should be fixed when playing on an pc monitor instead. Almost all TVs have many milliseconds input lag. A decent pc monitor has less than 5ms.
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
275
I think most of the input lag should be fixed when playing on an pc monitor instead. Almost all TVs have many milliseconds input lag. A decent pc monitor has less than 5ms.
Any halfway decent TV will have a game mode, or at least some way to manually disable their image processing crap.
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
93
The only thing I can think of Ian your Lan Adaptar or your Ethernet cable. I mean you have fast internet so it shouldn’t be a problem especially when the matches are running smoothly. There will always be a little input delay online but it shouldn’t be noticeable especially if it’s not noticeable in WiFi. I haven’t had this problem so I know the game can run very smoothly online with LAN it’s gotta be hardware
I will check cords and report back.
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
93
Any halfway decent TV will have a game mode, or at least some way to manually disable their image processing crap.
I'm using hardwired mode on the switch itself via USB c Ethernet. In theory this shoud provide the least input lag around. I've tested it out with my friends from online who live about 100 miles from me. Let me tell you when this game works well, it is amazing. Almost zero problems minus a few hiccups but now I'm suspicious of the input lag I get when playing other online ppl in quickplay. I recommend this method. Unless you can't live without GC controllers.

On another note...it's weird to get input lag online with a wired connection in quickplay but none at all when playing in areanas with your friends. I'm wondering if hosting a game gives you a superior edge when playing opponents online. So even if I'm wired, the game maybe be hosted on the other person's system and they could be using wireless.

Listen, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that it is most definitely not hardware related. All you have to do is take the Ethernet cord that you are using and plug it into another device, computer or another gaming system and then run a speed test on speedtest.net and then unplug the Ethernet and run the same test with Wi-Fi.
You can’t do a trace route to any Nintendo server to see if theirs some sort of latency or interference lag on your behalf. Why? Because unlike most gaming companies who have dedicated servers for their online services Nintendo does not. Nintendo is known for crappy online and the main reason as to why this could be happening to you is that it’s all peer-to-peer, simply put if the other person is lagging or has a delay due to slow internet, guess what? So will you. Also, your internet speed means nothing with smash online because it’s peer-to-peer your 100mbs is irrelevant. Honestly you could try to rule out if it’s hardware related but latency or your ping is based off of the random person and yourself as to how far you are from one another not how far you are from Nintendo’s dedicated servers because they have 0. Every match won’t run like butter if the other guy has crappy internet or lives on the other side of the planet. To let you know how garbage p2p is 500 people could be on one server with perfect connections and 1 person could be lagging like crazy and all 500 people would have issues.
Try doing a hard reset on your router, make sure it’s not the Ethernet cord, controller, controller adapter, or Ethernet adapter and also try disabling your router firewall. Best of luck and keep in mind if you lag every game, it’s you and not the other person but if it’s one match and not the other it was them. Stability is everything with p2p and you should have better performance wired.

//EDIT: Also try and play another online switch game and see if you have the same results, I recommend Mario Kart 8 Deluxe as it’s also p2p with more people your connection has to send/receive data from.
I will be looking into the speed tests for sure! And Mario kart 8 had none of those problems for me anyways. That is such a good game.
 
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saiyan.

Feint - Snake Eyes
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
137
Location
Medical Mechanica
I'm using hardwired mode on the switch itself via USB c Ethernet. In theory this shoud provide the least input lag around. I've tested it out with my friends from online who live about 100 miles from me. Let me tell you when this game works well, it is amazing. Almost zero problems minus a few hiccups but now I'm suspicious of the input lag I get when playing other online ppl in quickplay. I recommend this method. Unless you can't live without GC controllers.

On another note...it's weird to get input lag online with a wired connection in quickplay but none at all when playing in areanas with your friends. I'm wondering if hosting a game gives you a superior edge when playing opponents online. So even if I'm wired, the game maybe be hosted on the other person's system and they could be using wireless.
Their is no “host” when playing battle arenas compared to quick play. It’s all peer-to-peer and if the other person is lagging theirs nothing you can do about it.
Edit// If I had to guess, your most likely experiencing the same input lag that everyone else is with online, Ethernet or no Ethernet. It’s a constant part of it unfortunately..
 
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Mischiiii

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
117
Location
Germany (Hessen)
Any halfway decent TV will have a game mode, or at least some way to manually disable their image processing crap.
My tv is from a big manufacturer and was about 1500€. Bought it from a friend. Even with gamemode and everything it has still some lag if you are really looking for it. My gf doesn’t noticed it. It’s minor but there. Pc monitor will always be a better choice even if you have a good tv.
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
93
I should report back now after some months.

I have a 1m gaming monitor, I play on that docked, and undocked I have the switch screen. These two screens have insanely low screen lag, so visually, I should be seeing the fastest pixels I can. So at worst, on par with my opponent, and at best, better.

Good setup so far.

I use wired GC controllers, and wireless joycons in docked mode. And attached joycons for undocked mode.

So far so good.

I play with a friend online. It is insanely responsive. Best matches I've ever played.

I play online in arena and quickplay. The worse input lag and screen lag I've ever seen on the switch or in a video game in my entire experience with video games.

This confuses the hell out of me. Where is my screen lag coming from if it's fine when playing my online friends? Why am I behind visually when playing another person in arena? Why is my input lag suddenly 2-4 seconds and my DI non existent anymore?

These questions haunt me.

Example: I had an opponent start walking around the stage before the word "GO" appeared on my screen. Naturally he was able to attack me before I could do anything about it.

Example: Teleporting moves. Played a K-Rool that basically teleported across the whole stage, with moves showing up just before they hit me. No start up animation, just suddenly moves connected and I was combo food. DI for me was gone. I didn't have any input lag though... So, yup.

Example: Massive input lag during half way through a match. No longer did my DI work, just sat in tumble pressing buttons but, nothing worked. Had to quit the match it was so bad.

So I am at a loss. I can't figure out how my opponent sees about a second ahead of what I'm seeing. 80% of my matches are out of sync. It is not fair.

When I play my friends online, this is not ever an issue.

I have replays where it looks like my character is just sitting there. But on my screen at the time, I was playing as fast as I could.

I should buy another switch and see if it's something to do specifically with my unit.

If any of you exp these issues too, let me know before I buy another switch. Thanks.
 
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EGsmash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
121
I have experienced some similar annoyances. I have an older Samsung plasma TV and I just can't play online matches on it.

Wireless un-docked online works just fine (as fine as For Glory ever was, anyhow).
Wireless docked on the TV has anywhere from 150ms to 300ms extra lag, but ONLY in online matches.
Wired Lan docked on the TV sees zero improvement.
Local docked on the TV works just fine (also tested on other TVs - works fine)

Apparently, my TV just hates playing online matches.
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
275
That doesn't even make sense. Your TV isn't involved in the networking AT ALL.

When you're wired, are you sure your Switch is actually using the wired connection? When you look at the top right corner of the home screen, do you see the wired symbol or the Wifi symbol?
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
93
When you're wired, are you sure your Switch is actually using the wired connection??
I actually find that a wired connection with the switch undocked is the worse way to play smash ultimate. I thought it would really help, with minimal lag and the best response times on the switch screen. But nah.

I had a guy today move like he was literally 2x faster than the game allowed. I spent most of my time reacting defensively and missing all my defensive options than fighting back. I assume this is when the game lags behind on my end, and my system is desperately trying to sync us up, so my opponent looks like they took speed or something.

I had this other person in arenas start a match before I was even in the arena. I had just initiated going into the ring, I didn't see any username or fighter, or the OK button to confirm we were starting the match, nope, and BAM, match starts. Like WTF?

How are some users like 5 seconds ahead of other people online? How do you even set your switch up to do that? Like an upload of speed of 1,000,000 GB and a download speed of 0.5 megabytes?

Someone for the love of god, explain the netcode. There has to be someone on the forum that has dived into the innards of smash ultimate netcode.

Here is a re-creation of my suffering.

re-creation-of-lag.jpg
 
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Xelrog

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
1,136
Location
Battle Ground, WA
Switch FC
SW 2367 4933 3404
What do you mean, wired undocked? If it's undocked you're not wired, you're wireless. It's only wired if it's in the dock and you're playing on a monitor screen.
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
93
What do you mean, wired undocked? If it's undocked you're not wired, you're wireless. It's only wired if it's in the dock and you're playing on a monitor screen.
You can use a USB C to Ethernet adapter. It makes the fastest wired connection you can get on the switch and you can use it undocked. The input lag on the switch is low, and the response time is pretty fast, so you can get a really good connection and online experience in MOST games.

I say MOST because smash ultimate is utter garbage online. So don't bother trying to play online with any setup except MacDonalds wifi. Smash ultimate favors the weakest connection so, best get dail up internet and watch your GSP soar through the roof.
 

Xelrog

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
1,136
Location
Battle Ground, WA
Switch FC
SW 2367 4933 3404
I'd not heard of this method. Sounds inconvenient, having an ethernet cable dangling from handheld mode.

I have no trouble online even in wireless mode, so eh.
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
93
I'd not heard of this method. Sounds inconvenient, having an ethernet cable dangling from handheld mode.

I have no trouble online even in wireless mode, so eh.
Honestly, while it is great, the cord does stick out from the bottom.
 
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