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Can Smash really be Ultimate without a Story Mode?

Can this Smash Bros be its Ultimate form without a Story mode?

  • No, the game is amazing but a theoretical Story mode would complete my existence on Earth.

    Votes: 57 62.0%
  • Yes, the game is clearly the Ultimate now, it needs nothing else to always remain #1.

    Votes: 35 38.0%

  • Total voters
    92

pupNapoleon

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I've been going over a lot of comments for Smash Bros Ultimate, particularly ones made by the development and marketing teams.
Continually we see verbiage (in English, at least) that give us the impression it is all the things we have ever had and all the things we ever wanted, now in Smash.

"Over 300 stages...Everyone is here... the ultimate Smash Game"

Ultimate is becoming a retrospective of the series, with enough additions to make it fleshed out for anyone in the present economy.
I guess, ultimately, my question is... forget likelihood. To you, personally, is it possible for this to feel like the "Ultimate" Smash game, but not have a true story mode in the game?
Not any part of this is meant to gripe- Ultimate is going to be my favorite game. It seems inevitable.
Yet the game will have a big missing component to me without a Story Model: its one thing to not be given something we never had, but to have it not available when it was once so glorious, will always make me reminisce for that part of Brawl.
The same can be said for anything missing (hell, that asinine argument I just made was used as a leading argument for veterans for decades), but this one beloved idea seems to bring about a new love for the characters and the series', which is really what Smash Bros celebrates. Without a real story mode, it just doesnt honor the characters (for me) as well as it could- by continually letting the characters and their worlds fully mash up.

To clarify. "I'm not claiming it needs a story mode to be the best Smash game, the best fighting game, or even the best game of all time.
I'm just saying, is it the best Smash can possibly be, without seeing more of the story behind the characters?
For me, no.

tl;dr EDIT AUG 30:
I think it is fair to say this is a close call to fans. If I were to summarize, I would say:
People voting no (the game needs story) think the character mashup is part of the big appeal of Smash (it worked for the MCU!)
And people voting yes (the game needs nothing) were burned by the story before, and see it as fluff around game design.
(But hey, this is my recap, read the comments to get the full story!)
 
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CodakTheWarrior

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I really wish there are in an in-between option, as I definitely think a story mode would make this game completely unparalleled, but I also think that it is already shaping up to be the greatest fighting game ever made without that
 

hposter

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man, i'd love a story mode but i just don't think it's possible
there are like 70 characters in this game, having them all interact would be a blast to see but i imagine it'd just be too much work for the developers
it was way easier with brawl's 30-ish characters, but i'll still remain hopeful
after all, the only reason sakurai didn't include a story mode in smash 4 is because cutscenes would get leaked and what not
maybe he changed his mind this time, who knows
 
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pupNapoleon

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I really wish there are in an in-between option, as I definitely think a story mode would make this game completely unparalleled, but I also think that it is already shaping up to be the greatest fighting game ever made without that
That would qualify as a vote in the no column.
There isnt an in between I'll accept with this poll because I dont think its a question as to if this game is paralleled. It isnt. I'm not claiming it needs a story mode to be the best Smash game, the best fighting game, or even the best game of all time.

I'm just saying, is it the best Smash can possibly be, without seeing more of the story behind the characters?
For me, no.

man, i'd love a story mode but i just don't think it's possible
there are like 70 characters in this game, having them all interact would be a blast to see but i imagine it'd just be too much work for the developers
it was way easier with brawl's 30-ish characters, but i'll still remain hopeful
after all, the only reason sakurai didn't include a story mode in smash 4 is because cutscenes would get leaked and what not
maybe he changed his mind this time, who knows
The answer to this is clear: A serialized version of DLC content, with chapters getting released continuously. Have this developed by that rumored outside party, and bam- it doesnt even hurt the development team.
 
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RileyXY1

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I don't think that this game needs a story mode. It can be enjoyable without one.
 

BronzeGreekGod

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The really important thing is to have a GOOD story mode. Not something like subspace. Subspace was really generic and repetitive. We need something that is more well thought out and that that is crafted to be challenging, interesting and fun. If we just get another subspace, that wouldnt interest me. id just be like well they tried..
 

Heatswave

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I voted 'No', but I have to add, that I don't expect any cinematic cutscenes, it seems impossible with this crazy amount of fighters.
I hope that they'll get creative with the secret mode like telling a story in another way i.e. through pictures (see Mario Galaxy)... I just want a mode with replay value and a fun way to unlock the characters...
 

MacDaddyNook

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Eh, I could live without it if they don't include one. If they do include it, I'll probably play through it once and never visit it again.
 

Crazy Hand 2001

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Smash Bros "Ultimate" was foolish enough to group Charizard with Pokemon Trainer again, has paid online, has too many unlockable characters and included many stupid stages such as The Great Cave Offensive.

So It fails ard in being the "ultimate" Smash Bros
 

lucasla

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I think the game really needs a campaign. After so long time how could they not be able to create a game mode that mix all the characters of all these great games in a fun story mode is beyond me. I know Sakurai has a lot of work to make the core gameplay, that are the battles, the most perfect he wanted. But at the same time, a story mode is something separated, that could be created by another director and even with another team. And changes on details of the gameplay of the characters done by Sakurai during the development of the core gameplay would have low impact on the campaign gameplay if done right. And let's face it... Subspace Emissary was a good attempt to a campaign mode, but I think we can agree that, despite having some cool boss fights, the level design is pretty poor, the enemies are just boring.. you fight clouds and some generic clones most of the time, and the plataforming section are just uninspiring... Maybe if another director could focus on a great campaign while Sakurai does the core gameplay, we could really have the best of both sides of the game.

Anyway, I would really appreciate a campaign, maybe they have learned a lot with Subspace being just from "meh" to "ok" and now they are doing a great work on a really well developed campaign. But I also would really like if we had some "infinite game mode", something like a procedurally generated campaign, with infinite different challenges all the time you play it with many difficult modes to choose, cause that would be like an infinite adventure mode. The problem is that a game mode like this could be pretty hard to create really inspiring moments, while a campaign you could really make something epic. Anyway, I would be happy with one of these two things - or why not both? I can just dream about a campaign mode and a infinite adventure mode in the same game.
 
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BronzeGreekGod

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Let's agree to disagree.
What was good about it? The boring stages? The repetitive battles? The un-compelling story?

SSE was a good IDEA for sure. But it wasn't executed with much gusto. It was very bland and straight forward. Stages need to have more interesting platforming, better enemies to deal with, and battles need to be more diverse. I had zero fun with SSE, and the only reason i played it was to unlock characters. I dont know how anyone would want to play SSE for any other reason.

Eh, I could live without it if they don't include one. If they do include it, I'll probably play through it once and never visit it again.
this is because SSE sucked

if there was a good in depth story mode with fun challenges, i think you'd change your mind

Smash Bros "Ultimate" was foolish enough to group Charizard with Pokemon Trainer again, has paid online, has too many unlockable characters and included many stupid stages such as The Great Cave Offensive.

So It fails ard in being the "ultimate" Smash Bros
what?
 
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osby

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What was good about it? The boring stages? The repetitive battles? The un-compelling story?

SSE was a good IDEA for sure. But it wasn't executed with much gusto. It was very bland and straight forward. Stages need to have more interesting platforming, better enemies to deal with, and battles need to be more diverse. I had zero fun with SSE, and the only reason i played it was to unlock characters. I dont know how anyone would want to play SSE for any other reason.


this is because SSE sucked

if there was a good in depth story mode with fun challenges, i think you'd change your mind
Because it was fun.

Platforming was a lot more fun than Melee, enemies were interesting, story was epic with a lot of charming interactions.

We have different opinions about SSE and that's ok. Not everyone has to share your ideas.
 

BronzeGreekGod

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Because it was fun.

Platforming was a lot more fun than Melee, enemies were interesting, story was epic with a lot of charming interactions.

We have different opinions about SSE and that's ok. Not everyone has to share your ideas.
Were you like 10 when you played SSE? Thats a serious question. The only way SSE could be fun for someone is if they were really young when they played it.
 

lucasla

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The series never having a good campaign mode is not a reason to not want a good one.
If we are saying we want a good story mode it is obvious that it would not be a irrelevant one or something uninspiring like SSE, it would be something really great.
 

osby

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Were you like 10 when you played SSE? Thats a serious question. The only way SSE could be fun for someone is if they were really young when they played it.
I was 19, thanks for asking.

Go look at some adults playing SSE and having fun on Youtube or something. At shocking as it might be, there are people who enjoy things you don't and are bigger than 10. Which shouldn't be an issue to begin with, kids can also play Smash.
 

BronzeGreekGod

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You seem to be presenting your opinions as fact
its not an opinion really. im looking at it from a game design perspective. some games are good, some arent. If SSE were a game, it would be a bad game. Is it an opinion to say that LTTP is a far greater game than ET?

I was 19, thanks for asking.

Go look at some adults playing SSE and having fun on Youtube or something. At shocking as it might be, there are people who enjoy things you don't and are bigger than 10. Which shouldn't be an issue to begin with, kids can also play Smash.
I find that shocking.
 
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osby

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its not an opinion really. im looking at it from a game design perspective. some games are good, some arent. If SSE were a game, it would be a bad game. Is it an opinion to say that LTTP is a far greater game than ET?


I find that shocking.
One: Games can't be objectively better than each other, they are forms of entertainment.

Two: I can't care less about what you find shocking, just don't treat your emotions like real information.
 

TMNTSSB4

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The game is already Ultimate, but adding a story mode would make it surpass such a limit
 

BronzeGreekGod

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The game is already Ultimate, but adding a story mode would make it surpass such a limit

Goku confirmed for smash

Edit:... no.. wait.. smash IS Goku!

One: Games can't be objectively better than each other, they are forms of entertainment.

Two: I can't care less about what you find shocking, just don't treat your emotions like real information.
Really? Causeee I'm pretty sure I see reviews for games all the time, ane some are better than others bub. Is that just my immagination?
 
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TMNTSSB4

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Goku confirmed for smash

Edit:... no.. wait.. smash IS Goku!


Really? Causeee I'm pretty sure I see reviews for games all the time, ane some are better than others bub. Is that just my immagination?
I meant Ultra Instinct levels of surpassing limits, but this works just fine
 

pupNapoleon

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Let's try not to get personally attacking here, folks. It's just the best game ever made. Or not.
 

Homelessvagrant

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well ultimate simply means "the best achievable or imaginable of its kind." or "being or happening at the end of a process; final."

so can you imagine a realizable smash game that can beat smash ultimate in content? Personally i see Smash Ultimate as dreamlike already and had to convince myself it was real so I can't imagine there being a smash game that beats it in content. In this sense, as long as smash ultimate plays decent enough then yes. However, a story mode would certainly help raise the bar.

Now if you are considering the adjective form of ultimate then smash ultimate has dated itself by name sake alone.
 
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pap64

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Ultimate can still be Ultimate without a story mode, because technically the game needs no story mode for it to be complete. Melee had a very basic adventure mode and everyone just kept playing muliplayer. Brawl that had hot mess that was the Subspace Emmisary, and everyone just went back to play Melee. Smash 4 didn't have a story to speak of and it may have been the best Smash yet.

Story modes in fighting games are not necessary, but have become expect because each game offers characters with a backstory of sorts and when the very early arcade games showed us glimpses of what these universes were all about (like how in Street Fighter II Sagat's chest scar was created by Ryu's Shoryuken, or how Scorpion from Mortal Kombat thinks that Sub-Zero murdered his clan), fans started to ask "...and then?".

These fighting games were showing us small glimpses of stories that made us curious, and now we expect a story mode of sorts, or an arcade mode where we get more fleshed out endings. But Smash's story basically went like this; Nintendo toys came to life and decided to fight each other for the sake of fan service.

And yeah, I know there are theory videos saying that the Smash series is the story of how an autistic boy loved his Nintendo toys so much that even into adulthood he refused to let go of them, and Tabuu, Master and Crazy hand represent the authority figures that prevent him from being happy (NOT MY WORDS, I PROMISE), but at the end of the day, Smash never had a story, and when it did have one, it was an utter mess in terms of narrative that not even Kingdom Hearts can top.

IF there is a story mode in Ultimate, I want it to be easy and simple; characters have encounters with each other, we get some fun interactions and we get fan service out of it. Subspace Emmissary proved that Smash with a story mode doesn't work, and I legit feel that mode is what lowered Brawl's qualities in my eyes.
 

BronzeGreekGod

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Ultimate doesn't NEED story mode, but i think it would benefit from a good story mode. But it HAS to be good. Not just slapped together to make people do mundane tasks. SSE was a great concept, and having something like that with really intricate levels and enemies would be amazing... Think how specifically designed break the targets levels were in the original smash and melee. Each level was created to make the player learn how to use their character to the absolute fullest in order to be able to complete the task at hand. When i say SSE sucks, its because it was not crafted in this way. The potential is so much higher than what SSE was. The design of the older smash challenges were so above what they were in brawl and smash4. I know thats partly/mainly because of the roster size - it would take a lot of time to make challenges for now 70 characters. But you know what? If you're going for Ultimate, do it! I especially feel this is possible to realistically do in ultimate since Sakurai did not start from scratch with this engine, so all that time could be put into creating challenges rather than wasting it on recreating the wheel.
 

BonafideFella

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Guys, we can have a story mode and not have cutscenes. It was never necessary for them to be mutual. If they wanted to, for sure, but talking heads akin to Mario Tennis Aces' story mode would suffice.
As for the topic at hand, aren't we technically getting bite-sized story modes for each character's Classic mode?
 
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pupNapoleon

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well ultimate simply means "the best achievable or imaginable of its kind."
Exactly. So if a better interactive story can be imagined, this game cannot be the Ultimate.
Even if its the best game any of us has ever played.

Ultimate can still be Ultimate without a story mode, because technically the game needs no story mode for it to be complete. Melee had a very basic adventure mode and everyone just kept playing muliplayer. Brawl that had hot mess that was the Subspace Emmisary, and everyone just went back to play Melee. Smash 4 didn't have a story to speak of and it may have been the best Smash yet.

Story modes in fighting games are not necessary, but have become expect because each game offers characters with a backstory of sorts and when the very early arcade games showed us glimpses of what these universes were all about (like how in Street Fighter II Sagat's chest scar was created by Ryu's Shoryuken, or how Scorpion from Mortal Kombat thinks that Sub-Zero murdered his clan), fans started to ask "...and then?".

These fighting games were showing us small glimpses of stories that made us curious, and now we expect a story mode of sorts, or an arcade mode where we get more fleshed out endings. But Smash's story basically went like this; Nintendo toys came to life and decided to fight each other for the sake of fan service.

And yeah, I know there are theory videos saying that the Smash series is the story of how an autistic boy loved his Nintendo toys so much that even into adulthood he refused to let go of them, and Tabuu, Master and Crazy hand represent the authority figures that prevent him from being happy (NOT MY WORDS, I PROMISE), but at the end of the day, Smash never had a story, and when it did have one, it was an utter mess in terms of narrative that not even Kingdom Hearts can top.

IF there is a story mode in Ultimate, I want it to be easy and simple; characters have encounters with each other, we get some fun interactions and we get fan service out of it. Subspace Emmissary proved that Smash with a story mode doesn't work, and I legit feel that mode is what lowered Brawl's qualities in my eyes.
I'm curious... when did you last play a fighting game story mode? Since (at least) Mortal Kombat 9, the standard for fighting game story-modes has been raised to a critically agreed highpoint, echoed throughout subsequent games from other series.
Just because an idea did not work one time does not mean it cannot. How will we ever get the Fantastic Four into the MCU with that attitude?
 

pupNapoleon

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They're calling this the "ultimate" Smash Bros and yet they are making stupid changes that makes people play the previous games.
Making 4/5 of the roster unlockable and making people unlock them one at a time is one of them.
It's something I love about the game. Unlockables make it much more enjoyable to play through for me. And I wanted specifically to start with the OG8.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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You don't necessarily need a Subspace Emissary type of adventure for Smash Ultimate. Likewise, a story isn't really needed either.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Story Mode is a complete non-factor for me, SSE had very very little impact on my experience with Brawl. The cutscenes were really cool, but the gameplay was mostly just boring or tedious as the level design was surface level stuff. Boss Battles were a lot of fun, but we're getting those regardless.

I won't complain if we get an Adventure Mode, but I really won't care if we don't either, the game already feels ultimate to me.
 
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BronzeGreekGod

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They're calling this the "ultimate" Smash Bros and yet they are making stupid changes that makes people play the previous games.
Making 4/5 of the roster unlockable and making people unlock them one at a time is one of them.
Unlocking stuff is what makes people play games. If anything I want more stuff to unlock, including stages. The only thing is i also would want meaningful challenges to do the unlocking.

Also, this game ofers more than any other smash game. More characters, more stages more everything. My only concern is the gameplay pacing and balancing of the characters, andd I want all my wanted characters to get into the game (but that's just my selfish want).

Story Mode is a complete non-factor for me, SSE had very very little impact on my experience with Brawl. The cutscenes were really cool, but the gameplay was mostly just boring or tedious as the level design was surface level stuff. Boss Battles were a lot of fun, but we're getting those regardless.

I won't complain if we get an Adventure Mode, but I really won't care if we don't either, the game already feels ultimate to me.
I agree with what ur saying about sse. But just cause sse sucked, doesn't mean that's what we want from an adventure/story mode. I mentioned above smash64 and melee's target challenges. Immagine a story mode with stages that involve that kind of we'll crafted stage design creating interesting challenges to get through. It would be a tough feat to accomplish for 70+ characters, but that's what we want, not a basic simple thing like sse.
 
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Yosher

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Man, some people here really give the SSE a hard time. It wasn't perfect but to say that it was that terrible is an incredible overstatement. I enjoyed it, both in solo and co-op, and I know there's many other people out there who enjoyed it as well. Is that really so hard to believe? It could have definitely been better, but it was still fun for what it was.

That said, Smash Bros is mostly about the multiplayer experience, so in my eyes it doesn't necessarily need a story mode to be considered Ultimate, although I would very much like one. Whether it's like Smash Bros Melee, or like the SubSpace Emissary, or anything in between, I'll be satisfied really. I can already tell I'm going to enjoy the heck out of this game with or without story mode, and whether or not it'll really be the ultimate version in the end remains to be seen, but it definitely doesn't need a grand story mode for it to be that, not for me anyway. But I'll be very happy IF there is one (assuming it's executed well anyway, but I have little to no worries on that front).
 
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