camping and spacing

k-masera

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
8
#3
ZONING, or "spacing" as most of you call it even though the rest of the fighting game community had a word for it in prehistoric times, is the BACKBONE of any competitive fighting game
 

fluffy

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
2,037
Location
NJ/NY
#4
What about the mindgames? Sure it can be used for most games, but brawl requires it. Really good ones.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
38
Location
Corning, CA
#5
ZONING, or "spacing" as most of you call it even though the rest of the fighting game community had a word for it in prehistoric times, is the BACKBONE of any competitive fighting game
*Bridget player* :D

Yea. I don't really understand the term "camping". I'd understand if the projectiles were inescapable and infinite, but they're really not.
 

Spyckie

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
128
Location
Pittsburgh
#7
Yes, spacing is important, and has always been important. And do remember, in melee camping + shield grabbing was very difficult to overcome at first, especially for n00bs, but eventually people found devastating ways to deal with campers.

list of things that destroy shield camping
-------------------------------
the shffl for fox
dashdance grab game for marth
laser pressure for falco
grab+knee game for falcon
wavedashing grab happy IC's
WOPing jigglypuff
jabbing shields for samus... lol
and shiek.
-------------------------------

Everyone else didn't really have a good approach in melee, which made them hard to play competitively.
Dr Mario was competitive because he was a good camper. nuff said.

My point is that even in melee people had trouble with camping at the beginning. Brawl is just new - technique and mindgames will come eventually to deal with the beefed up shield and the happy campers, but its alright if people right now are facing difficulties. If, a year later, campers did continue to dominate tourneys, then switch back to melee or get the PAL version of brawl.

I remember as a melee n00b trying to attack and getting shield grabbed every single time. Eventually you find out how to get around it. I had to switch from yoshi to fox to learn how to shuffl and how to approach in general, but now I can approach with yoshi successfully (by spacing, dj-shffling and mindgames). Heck, if yoshi can approach in a game rigged with shffling fast fallers and a pretty solid shield game already, I think we need to give Brawl some more time to see what it has to offer.
 

Pharma

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25
Location
Brisbane, Australia
#8
dose anyone have this feeling that those 2 become way more important then before?
I just love how the majority of posters on this board are obsessed with comparing a mature metagame that has been developed over 5 years (Melee) with a fledgling one that has been around for 5 weeks (Brawl). Give it time!

At the moment "camping" is a predominant tactic because it wins games but as tactics develop and the metagame evolves the methods of winning will change. Camping will always be around and utilised by turtles. However it won't be the predominant tactic.
 

Superstarmario

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
254
#9
I just love how the majority of posters on this board are obsessed with comparing a mature metagame that has been developed over 5 years (Melee) with a fledgling one that has been around for 5 weeks (Brawl). Give it time!

At the moment "camping" is a predominant tactic because it wins games but as tactics develop and the metagame evolves the methods of winning will change. Camping will always be around and utilised by turtles. However it won't be the predominant tactic.
The "give it more time!" thing is getting rather old. Developing metagame isn't going to magically make Kirby's approach game better against lame ***** like Toon Link or Pit. The can still shield, they can still run, they can still hiw you away and resume activities.
 

Sirami

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
74
#10
I just love how the majority of posters on this board are obsessed with comparing a mature metagame that has been developed over 5 years (Melee) with a fledgling one that has been around for 5 weeks (Brawl). Give it time!

At the moment "camping" is a predominant tactic because it wins games but as tactics develop and the metagame evolves the methods of winning will change. Camping will always be around and utilised by turtles. However it won't be the predominant tactic.
While I can't say it will be the predominant tactic, I can't say it won't either. Some games favor the turtle (TTT), while some favor the aggressor (SF2). It's too early to tell, when it comes to Brawl.
 

Hydde

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
1,829
Location
Panama(Central america)
NNID
Rahrthur
#11
The "give it more time!" thing is getting rather old. Developing metagame isn't going to magically make Kirby's approach game better against lame ***** like Toon Link or Pit. The can still shield, they can still run, they can still hiw you away and resume activities.
I agree,
we for sure dont know if any new tactics will arise to deal with this, but also to assume that they will come in one way or another is wrong.

In melee we didnt had much idea at the beggninig of what to look for.... but in brawl we have from where to start in the tactic development departent.

IMO, camping and shield, counters out of shield and shield grab, as far as thing goes, will be the most succesfull tactic.-
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
GRimer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,142
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
#12
ZONING, or "spacing" as most of you call it even though the rest of the fighting game community had a word for it in prehistoric times, is the BACKBONE of any competitive fighting game

The rest of the fighting game community also uses a paragraph to summarize their rules where as smash needs the front and back of a page.

What's your point?

For the record, i cant think of the last time i've read anything on any fighting game and saw the term zoning. I see at as spacing everywhere i go. I remember people did use to say zoning though, im not gunna try to downplay it.


 

Sirami

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
74
#13

The rest of the fighting game community also uses a paragraph to summarize their rules where as smash needs the front and back of a page.

What's your point?

For the record, i cant think of the last time i've read anything on any fighting game and saw the term zoning. I see at as spacing everywhere i go. I remember people did use to say zoning though, im not gunna try to downplay it.


I've heard zoning amongst the Capcom crowd. I've heard spacing amongst the Tekken crowd. I've heard both from the SC crowd. Actually, pretty much any 2D fighter, I hear Zoning, and for pretty much any 3D fighter, I hear spacing, come to think of it.
 

k-masera

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
8
#14

The rest of the fighting game community also uses a paragraph to summarize their rules where as smash needs the front and back of a page.

What's your point?

For the record, i cant think of the last time i've read anything on any fighting game and saw the term zoning. I see at as spacing everywhere i go. I remember people did use to say zoning though, im not gunna try to downplay it.


my point, genius, is using the very mechanic that any 2d fighting game revolves around, namely "CONTROLLING SPACE ON A 2D FIELD" is not "CHEAP" so much as it is THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE GAME

seriously, before you make a stupid post like that, go read everything sirlin's ever written, and watch videos of pros in other fighting games

edit: in regards to the above post, which was posted while i was typing this one, tekken is horrible so don't take it as any indicator ;>
 

Sirami

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
74
#15
my point, genius, is using the very mechanic that any 2d fighting game revolves around, namely "CONTROLLING SPACE ON A 2D FIELD" is not "CHEAP" so much as it is THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE GAME

seriously, before you make a stupid post like that, go read everything sirlin's ever written, and watch videos of pros in other fighting games

edit: in regards to the above post, which was posted while i was typing this one, tekken is horrible so don't take it as any indicator ;>
You might think Tekken is horrible, but a lot of people don't. It's a big spectacle in large scale tournaments. It's been that way since TTT (well, T4 not so much).

I don't remember reading him saying anything about zoning/spacing being cheap. He was getting on your case for being so stuck up about which word to use.

Zoning and Spacing are the same thing. I've heard both used plenty, spacing more so for 3D fighters, and zoning more for 2D fighters, but there are players out there that use both terms.

He was saying that there's nothing wrong with the Smash community using the word "spacing" in place of "zoning". That's all he was saying, and you went off on him about something he didn't even say.....
 
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