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Calling all Bowser players (also accepting new Bowsers)

  • Thread starter Deleted member 189823
  • Start date
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Deleted member 189823

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I'm bored and I need to see more Bowser players around. It's incredibly rare (to non-existent) to see a Bowser in a tournament setting these days, so I'm going to try to encourage you guys to take step foward.

That is...for those who are still interested in Brawl, rather than taking Smash 4 as an excuse to quit it. 8P

One last thing I have to say is...don't be afraid of losing.
An important competetive philosophy I have is, don't be afraid to lose if you've managed to get a few set of good fights/matches. I really enjoy having good matches, against good players and even if I do lose...I like to go down like a winner, rather than being among the top players of an unrecognized region or being the many of mediocre players who play a good character.

Hail to the Bowser anthem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTQIogLBFBs
 
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Deleted member 189823

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Hey, I don't exactly see why not. Like I said, I never found Smash 4 an excuse to quit playing Brawl. And I stated my reasons behind the path of being a "loser", when picking up a character like Bowser. It's not like people give character like these much of a chance (competetively) today, anyway. They're to scared of losing and not being the top of some mediocre-infested ranking of sorts (no offense...but I really feel that is the case) and simply prefer winning in such a setting.

Another thing that's bothering me is the huge lack of Bowser representatives behind the results and MU Chart, resulting in an even worse MU spread, as of late. Really, now...Bowser is such a rarity to see in tournaments, that it just makes me think most of those results could be based on newer players just picking up the character out of curiosity.

If I have the boldness to say these kind of things, I sort of just have the need to do something about it. But I don't live in the U.S, so I can't really travel to nationals and all that...
EDIT: There's a big possiblity that I may go to NJ by the end of July/early August next year (I'm going to Miami for a week), and I'd like to see how well I could do...if I get bodied, at least know I stood up for Bowser. :p
 

LiteralGrill

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Well, I do admit I picked up Bowser recently and I figure on making it a permanent switch. It may be strange to switch to a character so low tiered, but something just plain fit for me with Bowser. I just gotta get the buffering right on his grab release antics and I'd feel comfortable trying to compete with him. (I suck at buffering for some reason.)

I do admire an effort to try and get some new people or some more dedicated folks over to a low tier main though, I really enjoy seeing cool matchups not seen every day, and it just makes the game more fun.

My biggest suggestion here though: 2008 has the one guide stickied for Bowser, it's three guides mashed together too even. There's a guide written in 2009 as well in the Koopa Castle, along with some other random posts that could be useful. It's 2013, you'd think that one insane comprehensive well organized guide would be possible so I don't have to dig though tons of threads for the info I need, plus the meta has changed a LOT since 2008-2009. I'd love to compile everything, but I'm obviously not a respected player who has any right to do so. Some of you Bowsers should get together and get that updated, it'd be a HUGE boon to anyone veteran or newbie playing Bowser.

(Now that I think about it a LOT of guides are seriously out of date for TONS of characters, maybe Bowser players should start a movement with this?)
 
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Deleted member 189823

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Who was your last main, Capps? I don't think I've seen you around.

I like the idea of re-compiling and even adding up extra information for a new Bowser guide. Jerodak actually discovered a few neat things on Bowser, and he's been having that very same idea.
Personally, I don't know if there's much more to add, but I suppose I could sum up alot of things and input some things I have in mind.
 

Jerodak

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Well it's too early to say that i've discovered anything since i'm still not sure what's known and what isn't but yes I agree that there does need to be a new guide. In fact I've had an idea of doing a Bower "encyclopedia" of sorts where we just compile all known data on the character and his metagame. It wouldn't be focused on breaking new ground, at least not at first. It's mostly because i'm "discovering" a lot of things that I feel are possibly new but then it turns out it just wasn't documented. This is going to make things very difficult for any potential Bowser mains who want to learn any of Bowser's tricks and gimmicks.

So what I want to do is find all of Bowser's currently known techniques no matter how gimmicky they seem and put them all in one place, this way people know everything that's already known and among everything that's actually useful they know what to look for and can get information on it. For things that don't seem that useful, at least everyone knows that it's a known thing and won't make anymore posts claiming they "discovered" some new AT or something and who knows maybe someone will find some way to put the seemingly useless thing to use? A good example of a potentially useful gimick that no one seems to talk about is bomb-released klaw. There's a post on that buried somewhere in the forum but it seemed too gimicky so no one really explored it. Basically if you have a bomb in your hand you can klaw link and have the bomb knock you out of it. If you have the right controller port, this will simply release you from the animation while having the link in hitstun, when you're in the air the way link is released sets you up to footstool him for free. This could lead into a free bowser bomb or gimp off the stage. If you were on the ground then you get an uptilt. You can also get backair and upair very easily this way if you're airborne which could set up easy kills at the right percents. It also works if link is holding the bomb, i can understand why this wouldn't be a widely used tactic but I still feel like it's something that's good for players to know. After all, if you ever grab a bomb from link or if he pulls one out, wouldn't you want to know all of your options to punish him with it? That set-up might even take the game for you. Just my opinon though.
 

LiteralGrill

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Who was your last main, Capps? I don't think I've seen you around.

I like the idea of re-compiling and even adding up extra information for a new Bowser guide. Jerodak actually discovered a few neat things on Bowser, and he's been having that very same idea.
Personally, I don't know if there's much more to add, but I suppose I could sum up alot of things and input some things I have in mind.

You haven't seen me around, I'm kinda a nobody from a bunch of tiny local scenes I've visited that's taking things more seriously now. (Though it was Game and Watch so you can know.)

I tend to have time on my hands, I'm not against at least formatting the guide. Some other characters have accounts named "InsertCharacterHereBackRoom", perhaps we can all work together through something like this? I'm willing to put some work in to make it happen, it'd certainly help me learn my character for sure.
 

EXST

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So, Smash 4 was actually my excuse to become a Bowser main (switching over from Olimar.) Have had some decent results! Interested on how Bowser works in 2013, doesn't seem to be too much info on it. Guess it was a good call to come unite us then :p
 

Jerodak

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Interested on how Bowser works in 2013, doesn't seem to be too much info on it.
I am working on a thread that should be able to do just that when it's finished. I will update it once a day everyday until it contains every known fact on Bowser's playstyle and any Bowser related metagame and mechanics information. Right now, I only have a little bit of it done but you may find a few things in there that you might not have already known.
 
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Deleted member 189823

Guest
So, Smash 4 was actually my excuse to become a Bowser main (switching over from Olimar.) Have had some decent results! Interested on how Bowser works in 2013, doesn't seem to be too much info on it. Guess it was a good call to come unite us then :p
Welcome aboard, then. It's nice to have new people around.

But yeah, stay alert on Jerodak's latest topics/posts. Also, don't hesitate at all to ask me for a few pointers on Bowser.
 

EXST

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will do, thank you ^^ a lot of issues i run into are just still getting familiar with the character. and how to deal with marth and diddy kong xD i get to practice with seagull on occasion, but i'll just get more comfortable with all of bowser's options with time.
 
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Deleted member 189823

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...You get to play Seagull? He's an ex Bowser main, you know. He used to main him back in '08, so I guess you can ask him some stuff yourself, but try not to get unmotivated if he tells you to switch to another character.
Anyway, yeah, try getting used to the character. In my opinion, Bowser players should really practice their mobility, so they can be fluid and avoid being all turtle-ish and stuff...you'll also want to avoid the slower moves (for now, try to refrain from D-Smash, D-Air, N-Air and only use B-Air for killing and autocancelled retreating F-Airs for spacing).

I actually don't know much about the DDK MU, since I have little experience on it...just practice item play, like catching them with Z in the air, or catching them with Z as you're falling and they're on the ground. And when he throws one at you, I usually wait for it to hit my shield and Z catch it in the air. Keep the banana to use it in your favor, rather than throwing it away since he can simply take another one out.
For Marth, I feel like you can compete with his spacing with some of your own attacks. Up angled F-Air beats his F-Air approach, and F-Smash can beat a poorly spaced D-Tilt (F-Smash can actually beat a few of his attacks, but you're going to want to save his for a surprise kill sometime). You can also bait a wiffed Up-B off him if he's expecting to get out of some Grab Release shenanigan...some Marths just panic Up-B, and you can bait it for a possible U-Air kill (kills at a whooping ~80%).
 

EXST

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yeah, i know. he's given me a few pointers when i'm playing, then encourages me to go back to olimar, haha. mobility isn't the issue or anything, and up angled f-tilts work on marth quite well. with diddy though, bananas force me to slow down on teh ground, and it's hard to challenge him in the air, if i can at all. i play with logic too, and stand much more a chance against his olimar than diddy xD i don't think d-smash is bad at all, catches spot dodges that i read, people rolling behind me. dair is....odd. i know people will argue for a surprise dair for shield pokes and all, but i just don't see it - hasn't worked for me yet xD. u-air is amazing, and surprisingly easy to hit by conditioning with empty jumps when they are high up, then just delay it...with marth though, the problem isn't up-b or anything....it's dealing with dancing blade. i take so much damage off that thing, it's not even funny
 

Seagull Joe

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That's kinda odd. :bowser2: does better vs :diddy: then :olimar:. Both are difficult matchups, but every matchup :bowser2: has is difficult.

Versus :diddy: the best thing to try to abuse is claw hopping. :diddy:'s best options when you do this are to fair or throw a banana at you. You will need to play with heavy baiting and condition yourself to react to either thing and then follow up accordingly. I like to stay completely mobile vs :diddy: by using a lot of sh retreating fairs as well. Never use Dair unless you're landing right into someone or they're shielding below you. Use Nair to frame trap after people airdodge your fair. I wouldn't even use Bair unless my opponent is offstage, in which fire breath is usually a better option regardless.
:018:
 

EXST

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when i was playing logic's diddy, i was claw hopping as i could, but he would usually just pelt me with a banana teh second i started rising again, or would fair me or something out of it. then again, personally, my insta-tossing is awful, so that is something to practice that would help, haha. i found that at least vs olimar, i could fair through most attacks and kill pikmin really easily, and claw hopping kept me out of grab range quite well. i just found it so hard to get out of the stage presence of diddy, he was controlling the pace almost all the time. thanks for the tips though! i'll have to try them out
 
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Deleted member 189823

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yeah, i know. he's given me a few pointers when i'm playing, then encourages me to go back to olimar, haha. mobility isn't the issue or anything.
Basic mobility shouldn't exactly be a problem...what I mean is, try to remain fluid with your movement. Also practice Klaw Hopping on the BF platforms, because it can be pretty good sometimes.

with diddy though, bananas force me to slow down on teh ground, and it's hard to challenge him in the air, if i can at all. i play with logic too, and stand much more a chance against his olimar than diddy xD i don't think d-smash is bad at all, catches spot dodges that i read, people rolling behind me. dair is....odd. i know people will argue for a surprise dair for shield pokes and all, but i just don't see it - hasn't worked for me yet xD. u-air is amazing, and surprisingly easy to hit by conditioning with empty jumps when they are high up, then just delay it...with marth though, the problem isn't up-b or anything....it's dealing with dancing blade. i take so much damage off that thing, it's not even funny
You obviously are going to want to slow downa gainst DDK, he's a very defensive character himself. I tend to stay grounded most of the time, except when I kill. I understand you're going to want to take advantage agaisnt DDK in the air...but I don't know too much about that, having little MU experience against him.
The problem with D-Smash is that the hitbox is out for so long, that people may find it rather easy to SDI out of. I myself use it sometimes because I find it ducks under some attacks, or against people to want to land with an aerial and I punish them for it. I heard that it's especially good against Olimar, for punishing his landings since it can kill of his pikmin as well as rack up some damage...D-Air is mostly a mixup option for landing, and also when you're opponent really doesn't expect it to use as an OoS shield poking tool. It also has a more safe use for pushing an opponent close to the edge, off the stage, thanks to it's pushing hitbox. Although I'm not exactly sure how safe this can be, so someone may be free to correct me on that.

That's kinda odd. :bowser2: does better vs :diddy: then :olimar:. Both are difficult matchups, but every matchup :bowser2: has is difficult.

Versus :diddy: the best thing to try to abuse is claw hopping. :diddy:'s best options when you do this are to fair or throw a banana at you. You will need to play with heavy baiting and condition yourself to react to either thing and then follow up accordingly. I like to stay completely mobile vs :diddy: by using a lot of sh retreating fairs as well. Never use Dair unless you're landing right into someone or they're shielding below you. Use Nair to frame trap after people airdodge your fair. I wouldn't even use Bair unless my opponent is offstage, in which fire breath is usually a better option regardless.
:018:
I actually agree with him...Olimar has always been an easier MU for me, and both have usually been -2 close to each other, almost -3. Klaw Hopping allows me to jump over Olimar's grabs, his F/D-Smash and even alot of his U-Smashes if I approach from a sideways angle, thanks to it's disjointed hitbox. And I'm not exactly sure about this, but I think you can punish his U-Smash with FF-Nair (according to Zigsta, and it's actually worked for the very very few times I've used it). We also have most GR options against Olimar, assuming once we get on his face, we can grab him for a D-Tilt kill, or even a small CG to Klaw.
Then again, I do have rather little experience against DDK, as I've mentioned earlier. I am lately getting better with my item game, so it could just make this a whole lot easier, since my problem used to be items in general. Also, DDK doesn't exactly kill...Olimar on the other hand can kill us around 125% with a yellow U-Smash. And of course, he racks up damage on us like Hell on Earth.
 

Jerodak

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You may have noticed that Bowser has a pretty slow item toss so when you get your hands on a peel try sticking to item drops instead since he can do that with the best of them. Actually, when you're falling at normal speed if you item drop a peel it'll be hidden behind Bowser on the way down. Also, even when he's carrying the item it can be hard to tell if Bowser has a peel or not because of his large model. You can also item drop and air catch at the same time during a shorthop. Might be useful for mind games.

Picking up items mid klawhop and with rising fair are probably good ideas as well, you can also do it if you're on the ledge and they put one at the edge of the stage thinking you'll trip on it when you try to climb up, or if they think it'll force you to jump or something. To do this just ledgedrop, double jump then do an item dodge via airdodge when you're over the stage.
 

Hoboman5000

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Well I've actually been using Bowser since melee (still am) and I definitely think Boozer needs more love everywhere.
 

Cassius.

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Well, I don't post often and I haven't touched Brawl in a few months, but Swei speaks to me on Skype reasonably often, so if there's any information you guys need I can drop some stuff. I'm sure I can still give somewhat valuable information since I doubt anything related to Bowser has changed drastically.
 

Jerodak

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Well, I'm looking forward to changing that very soon. Though, even if we don't break new ground, it'll still be a major boon to the Bowser community to have data that's been analyzed and compiled recently so that we have something that's indisputably up-to-date. Maybe just this by itself would remove much of the confusion that new players might experience and knock out an entry barrier for him. If something like that happens, we could see a lot more serious tournament rep, that would be great!
 

Jerodak

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Recently picked up Bowser. Obviously a low-tier with very little tournament representation, but a very fun character to play.
Well thanks for dropping by, you've arrived at a great time, we are organizing a group on Skype that will be discussing the metagame of the character. You're welcome to join. Even if you're brand new you can still be very helpful to the discussion. Any information that you have regarding your previous main(s) might come in handy. If you're interested just PM your skype contact details and I'll put you on the list.
 
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Deleted member 189823

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We are currently discussing Hurtbox Manipulation, at the Bowser Skype chat. While their were only a few of us the other day, we did have some fruitful conversation with good input by it's participants. I'd actually like to see that in play, sometime soon. I'll try to acheive that.
 

κomıc

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I did pretty well at a tournament using Bowser (even though I main Kirby and Ness). He's really fun to use. I look forward to using him in Smash 4, for sure.

I'm interested to see if Bowser turns out to be REAL good, if people will flock from MK or the character they used in Brawl to Bowser in Smash 4. I'm ready to call out and drop the salt bombs :D
 
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Deleted member 189823

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So Bowser stands up straight and suddenly people are all over him. He really has that swag going for him now, huh?

You should try picking him up for the remaining of the Brawl metagame, maybe.
 

N~W .

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Hi all.

I've been using Bowser at my local tournaments in the UK since mid 2013. At first, I went all Bowser but I've since branched out to learning using other characters like Wolf, D3 and Marth.

That said, I'd still play him if given the opportunity to do so. Hopefully if I can make it to Cambridge for the next monthly in the new year, I'll be having a couple Bowser Ditto Friendlies with Ixis should he attend on the day. If possible, I may upload the matches depending on if I get his permission to do so and if I remember to bring my SD card on the day so that I can save the replays.
 

RosalinaSama

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anyone still playing Brawl Bowser now? I'm pretty new but I'm still really interested in playing him, I don't have much experience though
 

KenMeister

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anyone still playing Brawl Bowser now? I'm pretty new but I'm still really interested in playing him, I don't have much experience though
No, because Smash 4 Bowser exists. No one has any reason to be playing Bowser in Brawl/Melee anymore outside of sandbagging. lol
 
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Deleted member 189823

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There's actually a pretty good reason to play Bowser, like any other character you like: Fun. And what's part of the fun? Winning. They can go hand in hand, if you so wish it (unless that MU happens to be ICs).

I never stopped playing Bowser, and even have a few, rather recent, replays:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R80libL5YEE&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg (vs.:marth::metaknight:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcRtaq6-prM&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg (vs.:olimar:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPJqhEOEaY&index=1&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg (vs.:ganondorf:)
 
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