• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

C-stick question

Vincenzoo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
4
Hi everyone,

I am a Ness main myself, but am using ZSS as my secondary for a while now. When I play Ness, I always put the c-stick on Smash attacks because his tilts aren't the best in the game, and it's very handy to use the yoyo with the C-stick while running.

ZSS on the other hand, has very good tilts, so I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to put C-stick on Tilts when playing her. I know it may be personal preference, but I'm just curious what you guys have to say about it.

Thanks in advance :)
 

AstroCRiS

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
25
her tilts have fast start up, but terrible end lag. There's a reason zss' don't practice pp-ing with c-stick on attack, and it's cis our tilts are garbage. Tilt for me personally are used defensively and I don't expect to get a followup out of one. So in my opinion, it's not worth it to put c-stick on attack.
 

free33

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
245
Location
Socal
NNID
Intelctmeatbal
Up tilt: an awesome fake out, does 12%, has invincible legs, but has really bad endlag. Great to use out of a spot dodge. much harder to do without a Cstick set to attack (at least, it requires a lot more getting use to). Ftilt is a great defensive poke. While not safe on shield, it is still a good tool in footsies, and should be very accessible. Dtilt is kinda meh. Does more damage than Ftilt and has slightly more range, but has really bad endlag. I usually would just use Ftilt. Using the Cstick for attack allows you to use aerials freely without changing your momentum to the direction of the aerial, allowing you to perform retreating Forward airs, advancing Back airs, et cetera. Considering ZSS's incredible aerial gameplay, this is a much better set up. ZSS's smashes are really not that good anyway aside from Dsmash. ZSS will mainly kill with up B, Down B, Up air, and Back air. Setting the Cstick to attack also allows the use of "double sticking" a method of aerials that can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHnTF4GQQDA
Setting Cstick to tilts also allows you to use tap jump (jumping by pressing up on the joystcick, as opposed to with a jump button) freely without worrying about being able to use your tilts effectively. many people with c stick set to smashes is that they have a hard time performing tilts, especially up tilts, as opposed to smashes. This is due to the necessity of having to lightly tap the directional pad and press a to get tilts and having to hit it harder to get smashes. sensitivity of the button making different moves come out is much harder than just having two ways of performing two different kinds of moves. (Cstick for tilts, direction +A for smashes.) I have never heard of anyone having trouble performing smashes as opposed to tilts. Overall it is a much better setup for ZSS, and in my opinion a much better set up for pretty much any character, as it allows much better control of your character's movements and allows for more combos.
And as for ness's tilts, Utilt combos into itself and into Uair very easily, so it should have some use. Dtilt is basically lagless, can hit multiple times kinda like lucas's , and has good tripping ability, allowing a combo into Fsmash. it is a very good kill setu similar to diddy's banana into Fsmash. banana is basically an auto tripping projectile. Ftilt, idk . i dont think it is that good. Anyway, I hope this helped.
Here is a video to help explain the Cstick more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKXJDXgcZps
 
Last edited:

Tobi_Whatever

あんたバカァ~!?
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
2,647
Location
Germany
NNID
Tobi_whatever
her tilts have fast start up, but terrible end lag. There's a reason zss' don't practice pp-ing with c-stick on attack, and it's cis our tilts are garbage. Tilt for me personally are used defensively and I don't expect to get a followup out of one. So in my opinion, it's not worth it to put c-stick on attack.
Our tilts are not terrible. Our uTilt is awesome and our sTilt is solid.
Anyway, c-stick on tilt is already worth it for better air mobility. I do all my aerials with c-stick, including nAir.
 

AstroCRiS

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
25
Our tilts are not terrible. Our uTilt is awesome and our sTilt is solid.
Anyway, c-stick on tilt is already worth it for better air mobility. I do all my aerials with c-stick, including nAir.
They have Great startup, but Up Tilt has bad end lag, try it for yourself. Side tilt is good but I don't think it's good enough for c-stick on attack. As for areal mobility, I never have any trouble with my c-stick on smash. but to each there own I guess.
 

free33

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
245
Location
Socal
NNID
Intelctmeatbal
They have Great startup, but Up Tilt has bad end lag, try it for yourself. Side tilt is good but I don't think it's good enough for c-stick on attack. As for areal mobility, I never have any trouble with my c-stick on smash. but to each there own I guess.
You should try it:) it feels a lot more free in terms of movement. Cross over to the dark side, AstroCRIS
 

Vincenzoo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
4
Okay guys, I have put c-stick on tilts, and it works pretty good, One more thing though, I had the bad habit of using the A button for aerials. Now lately I've been using the C-stick,is it recommended to put on tap jump when using the C-stick for aerials?
 

Meta_X

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
80
Location
IL
I've experimented a couple of times with attack stick, but the main thing I dislike about it is how all diagonals do nair (or jab... srsly) and you can't disable that. At first I had a lot of problems with doing this by accident but last time I didn't have much trouble with it. Still, I'm not interested in starting to use cstick for nairs as I've never had any movement problems with A. However it's still upsetting that it makes it so you can't angle your ftilts with the cstick.

But my main problem with completely switching over is that I mostly play on 3DS and you can't change what the cstick does (or ZL/ZR, for that matter).
 

free33

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
245
Location
Socal
NNID
Intelctmeatbal
I use the Cstick for tilts and all my aerials except for nair. I use tap jump as well, mainly because i love being able to control all my movement with one stick, not "jump button then quickly move to wherever i want." Jab and nair with A button, tilts and other aerials with Cstick. Using Cstick and tap jump also allows double sticking, which i find very useful.
 

ampatron

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
9
Location
BC, Canada
NNID
ampatron
Okay guys, I have put c-stick on tilts, and it works pretty good, One more thing though, I had the bad habit of using the A button for aerials. Now lately I've been using the C-stick,is it recommended to put on tap jump when using the C-stick for aerials?
Tap jump may be useful so that you don't have to move your thumb from X/Y to the C stick every time you want to quickly do an aerial after jumping. Although since I personally dislike tap jump I just use Z for jump and assigned X to grab.

But then again you can do whatever you want. Nairo uses default controls after all, and that seems to work fine for him.


I use the Cstick for tilts and all my aerials except for nair. I use tap jump as well, mainly because i love being able to control all my movement with one stick, not "jump button then quickly move to wherever i want." Jab and nair with A button, tilts and other aerials with Cstick. Using Cstick and tap jump also allows double sticking, which i find very useful.
Have you considered learning to use diagonals on the c stick for jabs and nairs? That way you can jab while walking, or nair while trying to alter your momentum in the air, and not have to worry about resetting the left stick.
 

free33

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
245
Location
Socal
NNID
Intelctmeatbal
I have tried, but i find myself inconsistent with hitting diagonals correctly. i use a pro controller, and it does not have the diagonal grooves that a gamecube controller does. however, the nair does not inherently change your momentum from using the a button, since it is a neutral direction. I can change my momentum before and right after i initiate the nair, and the nair won't change the momentum i have, so in the case of nair, it's actually fine and intuitive to use with the A button. And can't i already jab while walking? I'm pretty sure a jab comes out if I just press A while walking.
 

Tobi_Whatever

あんたバカァ~!?
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
2,647
Location
Germany
NNID
Tobi_whatever
Okay guys, I have put c-stick on tilts, and it works pretty good, One more thing though, I had the bad habit of using the A button for aerials. Now lately I've been using the C-stick,is it recommended to put on tap jump when using the C-stick for aerials?
Nah. I use z jump, so my thumb is always free for hot c-stick action.
 

Vincenzoo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
4
Thanks for the advice people, I now use Z jump and it works pretty good when using the C-stick. Still need to get used to it a bit though, but for me it works a lot better than tap jump.
 

Tobi_Whatever

あんたバカァ~!?
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
2,647
Location
Germany
NNID
Tobi_whatever
Thanks for the advice people, I now use Z jump and it works pretty good when using the C-stick. Still need to get used to it a bit though, but for me it works a lot better than tap jump.
As long as you stick to it you will be fine .
Took me more than a week to really get z jump down but it was well worth it.
 

KidSchadow

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
17
I use a tilt stick since I play Fox, but I've found it works quite nicely with zss too. For one, it's great because you can buffer an up air while in jump squat, which doesn't work with a smash stick since you'll jump cancel up smash. In addition, you can use perfect pivots in tandem with ftilt to mimic melee samus's wave dash ftilt. It's not completely safe, but I find it a useful option if I don't want to commit to the air, and if ftilt connects, it usually puts the opponent in a bad position.
 

Claire Redfield

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
53
Location
Raccoon City
NNID
Lara_Redfield
I had a question about this. How do expert ZSS players control her? Especially when they have such tight, precise movements. I don't use C-stick aerials for basically anyone. I tried it with Mega Man, but I noticed that it stopped my momentum, and I use that momentum a lot. Running jump into d-smash with Mega Man, I like being able to move around in the air while performing the move.

What about with ZSS? I have X on Jump as default, but Y is grab. I keep tap jump off because it screws with my tilts and aerials if I try to use it. Does using the C-stick for aerials really work better? If so, how do I approach it if I prefer a button to jump? Maybe switch one of the left shoulder buttons to jump so that I don't have to move my thumb from X up to the C-stick very fast?

For what it's worth, I use a Pro Controller U. I don't have the Gamecube controller for it, though I'd love to get one some day.

Also, how do you learn how to do RAR? Some of the guide videos I'm looking at use them to a big degree, but I can't quite figure out how to be so darn precise.
 
Last edited:

mrpocari21

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
21
NNID
mrpocari21
3DS FC
0619-3677-7277
What about with ZSS? I have X on Jump as default, but Y is grab. I keep tap jump off because it screws with my tilts and aerials if I try to use it. Does using the C-stick for aerials really work better? If so, how do I approach it if I prefer a button to jump? Maybe switch one of the left shoulder buttons to jump so that I don't have to move my thumb from X up to the C-stick very fast?

For what it's worth, I use a Pro Controller U. I don't have the Gamecube controller for it, though I'd love to get one some day.

Also, how do you learn how to do RAR? Some of the guide videos I'm looking at use them to a big degree, but I can't quite figure out how to be so darn precise.
I use a gamecube controller but the same ideas apply. The way I c-stick my aerials is by setting z to jump. This frees up my thumb for the c-stick. For you since you use the pro controller it would correspond to R or ZR but of course you can use L or ZL. And then I map grab to my X button, but you already have that covered. Another thing is I set the c-stick to tilt. This allows for full control of your momentum when tilting aerials.

As for RAR, all you need to do is dash one way, press back to put yourself in the slide animation and immediately cancel this animation with a jump.
 

Claire Redfield

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
53
Location
Raccoon City
NNID
Lara_Redfield
Ah, so setting C-stick to just "Attack" instead of "Smash Attack" lets you keep your momentum? Hm. I might have to use that. I tried testing out using ZR for jump and it got very difficult, since I'm so used to pressing X. If you have X to grab and Z to jump, do you use Y for shielding?
 

mrpocari21

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
21
NNID
mrpocari21
3DS FC
0619-3677-7277
yeah, so for example you can jump forward and back air while maintaining your momentum going forward. yeah setting jump to the shoulder buttons takes a while to get used to, but I've grown to like it a lot. I normally use L to shield and pretty much never change that control
 

Claire Redfield

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
53
Location
Raccoon City
NNID
Lara_Redfield
I'll have to practice that a bunch. Thanks! I'll let you know how it works out. If you want a training partner, let me know, because I really need to improve my game.
 

Claire Redfield

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
53
Location
Raccoon City
NNID
Lara_Redfield
Realistically, do you lose anything by not doing C-stick aerials? Am I missing out on anything important for competitive play if I just continue to do it manually? The only thing I can think is a problem would be fast-falling the D-air of characters like Cloud (or even Link). Is it possible to do that with just down + A, plus the control stick? If not, I could always use the C-stick for just those. But playing with C-stick aerials is just so foreign to me, I don't think I can ever get used to it, unless I absolutely have to because there's no way to master the game without it.
 

mrpocari21

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
21
NNID
mrpocari21
3DS FC
0619-3677-7277
Realistically, do you lose anything by not doing C-stick aerials? Am I missing out on anything important for competitive play if I just continue to do it manually? The only thing I can think is a problem would be fast-falling the D-air of characters like Cloud (or even Link). Is it possible to do that with just down + A, plus the control stick? If not, I could always use the C-stick for just those. But playing with C-stick aerials is just so foreign to me, I don't think I can ever get used to it, unless I absolutely have to because there's no way to master the game without it.
The only thing I can think of that you lose by not c-sticking is the control over your momentum. For more defensive characters like palutena or marth, having control over your momentum is pretty big (e.g. retreating f-airs). Allows them to build their walls easier. A nice thing with having tilt stick too is that you can do an immediate jump -> up air without having to worry about doing a jump cancelled up smash. I'm not quite sure what you're saying for the fast fall d-air thing. With the tilt stick you can d-air without fast falling, but it's more difficult to do without the c-stick because its a more precise input. As for getting used to it all I can say is that it just takes time and keep playing until it becomes second nature. It took me around 3-4 weeks to get used to it, and even now sometimes I still press z thinking I'm going to grab. It's not like you need this control set up to get better at the game, in the end it all comes down to personal preference
 

Claire Redfield

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
53
Location
Raccoon City
NNID
Lara_Redfield
Well, I want to go with what's best, or at least most efficient, keeping in mind my main of ZSS. Though earlier tonight I was doing well, but lately I've been getting schooled by everyone. I can't figure out how to approach. It doesn't help that the damn thing won't short hop half the time. A Toon Link I faced just rolled over me like it was nothing. Kept me easily at bay with projectile camp and comboed me easily when I got close. I can't seem to escape combos at all. Same with Bayonetta, and Ness/Lucas.

After doing so well earlier, I'm getting very discouraged with being unable to approach. And I can't blame lag (though a few matches have been laggy to the point of affecting my play), because even without it I would have gotten schooled.

Is there any way to get out of Bayonetta's ridiculous combos? I'm really starting to hate the character. Stupid overpowered counter, stupid inescapable 500-hit combos. It's annoying.
 
Last edited:

NSM | Earthshaker

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
2
NNID
omarmo1214
I think when it comes down to me using c-stick for attack or smash, it's whether I want to focus on dsmashing more or worrying more on my aerials. I personally find having c-stick on smash to be slightly better with zss because I can dsmash much more consistently without ever misinputting a dtilt if I try to use the left stick + A. I think dsmashing over aerial mobility and vice versa is probably the criteria for which some zss' players base their preferences on.

For the most part, I can control my aerial momentum with no problem without using the c-stick for aerials so I use c-stick for smashes. Immediate uairs with the c-stick set to attack is probably considerably better than if c-stick is set to smash because of the issue of jc usmash at times.
 
Top Bottom