C Stick Nair "sometimes" happening ?

[Crybhabie]

I've been playing with my friend all weekend and we noticed that sometimes we would C Stick Nair even thought it's supposed to be removed in Ultimate.

Me and my friend were both extensive users of C Stick Nair and we still sometimes try to input it from muscle memory, but it seems to still work sometimes.

I also noticed it works an increased amount of time when ledge cancelling Palutena's warp and inputing a C Stick Nair (still results in either Fair or Bair most of the time, but it does happen more than normally).

I can't seem to reproduce it consistently, it just happens sometimes.

Anyone can look into that ?

 

[TimmahTom]

I've been in the training mode for about an hour now trying to figure out why I keep nairing with the c stick on marth it's driving me crazy and I can't recreate it consistently either.

I've been in the training mode for about an hour now trying to figure out why I keep nairing with the c stick on marth it's driving me crazy and I can't recreate it consistently either.

C stick is set to smash attack as well, it's wack.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

What controller are you using?

 

[TimmahTom]

What controller are you using?

OEM new smash GameCube controller

 

[Slimatic]

Here's Leffen talking about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c70CzFMbv6M

 

[Crybhabie]

I've been using a gamecube controller.

Here's Leffen talking about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c70CzFMbv6M

Timestamp ?

 

[SkinAndBones]

I've been looking everywhere for someone talking about this. I don't have the best tech skill but I've found that besides buffering a C-stick aerial eating the direction the C-stick is in and only buffering the A part of the input, you can also Nair by doing diagonal C-stick with the shorthop shortcut BUT you also can't be holding the control stick because it's acting like if you were just pressing A and jump so the control stick will still cause directional aerials to come out instead. So C-stick nair is still a thing but ONLY if you input it at the same time as your jump to autoshort hop AND aren't touching the control stick when you input.

I have no idea why this is but I find it very annoying and think that it might not be intentional but somehow a part of the new shortcut mechanic eating the direction input if it's not angled how the game wants it, otherwise why wouldn't C-stick Nair work when regularly in the air? Also it doesn't make sense for this to be an intentional addition because to get it to do a nair with diagonal C-stick with this method requires hitting the diagonal while not moving the control stick rather than just hitting A. It's literally just a more complicated way of hitting A so there's no benefit to it.

I think it would be much better to have Nair be with Z like in Melee, and then allow for Z+X/jump to be the shorthop Nair shortcut. This would go with what Sakurai wants too because it's technically less mechanically demanding to be moving in a direction and doing a drifting Nair. Just add it as another toggle in controller options though.

If anyone could please look into this themselves and verify for themselves cause I haven't seen anyone else come to this conclusion but I can do it consistently.

Forgive me if anything isn't clear in this post, I've watched more competitive smash than actually played and put the time into but I'm very particular about controls and this inconsistency was driving me crazy to understand and now I'm pretty certain I understand what's happening but I'm also pretty confident it's a glitch and not intentional. Otherwise diagonal C-stick + jump would do a shorthop Nair even when holding forward just like how down C-stick + jump still does a Dair when moving forward.

 

[Crybhabie]

Hitting diagonal C-Stick always used to input Nair until Ultimate. Yet now it was "removed" but it's still in and very hard and inconsistent to do.

I watched Leffen's video and it basically confirms that using the C-Stick doesn't actually input a Fair and is actually a foward+A input, which is why you move slightly foward when using the C-Stick Fair during a neutral jump as Leffen demonstrated (funny out of all people currently labbing SSBU, Leffen is one of them doing incredible work).

C-Stick Nairs now happens when that input is buffered, so only the A input gets buffered. In fact, it doesn't seem that you get any noticeable foward momentum from a C-Stick Nair out of a neutral jump. I assume that it is incredibly hard to do from a short-hop because of the new SH aerial mechanic, and the standarized 3 frames jumpsquat, probably making C-Stick nair possible for 1 or 2 frames, while it was easier for me to do out of a ledge cancelled Palutena's Warp thanks to the few extra frames of endlag before I slide offstage.

 

[Sweetss]

I hope this can be caught as a bug... Performing a Nair in this way doesn't seem like something that can be practically implemented in a consistent way, and I'm finding myself unintentionally throwing out Nairs while performing C-stick aerials. I'd love my C-stick nairs back but I'd take being able to map this to another button.

 

[Crybhabie]

Yes it is incredibly inconsistent because now any aerial input with the C-Stick may trigger a Nair if the conditions are met, yet it's completely unusable in actual play.

 

[Sweetss]

Like if they altogether removed C-stick nair, I could deal with that. My main concern is that I shouldn't have to worry about inputting a fair outside of a frame window that causes it to register as a nair.

I feel silly ranting about one flaw out of all the amazing things about this game, but I just hope this gets enough attention to be fixed in a patch.

 

[Fossana]

It happens because you release the cstick too quickly. When you do the shorthop aerial shortcut (pressing jump + A button/cstick at the same time), the type of aerial that will be performed isn't determined until the jumpsquat animation ends (the first frame your character is in the air), as that is when the the direction of the control stick/cstick is actually read. You will sometimes do a nair when you do jump + direction on control stick + A button at the same time as well if you release the control stick really quickly (just flicking it). You can verify the latter point in training mode by releasing the control stick on the last frame of the jumpsquat animation.

 

[There Goes Bill]

If you standing nair in training mode, and try to up air with the c stick is will do a second nair instead. not sure why

 

[i am hyoomahn]

So basically you have three frames of jump-squat. If you press the c stick in a direction, you will do the corresponding tilt. However, jumping cancels the tilt and buffers a nair. you have to jump, wait for the jumpsquat then finally press your desired aerial.