The Business
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 249
upgraded in ball-size and heterosexuality though.
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Crescent Monkey
Smash Apprentice
@Hax
I just wanted to say that despite the fact that you didn't win the set, the simple fact that the best Falcon in the world has the ability to beat the best Falco in the world is incredibly inspiring, and makes me more determined to get better with the character despite of his horrible matchups and incredibly non-existant room for error.
I just wanted to say that despite the fact that you didn't win the set, the simple fact that the best Falcon in the world has the ability to beat the best Falco in the world is incredibly inspiring, and makes me more determined to get better with the character despite of his horrible matchups and incredibly non-existant room for error.
Zhea
Smash Ace
I should be attending, I figure that out as it gets closer.
Zhea
Smash Ace
Houston Texas same weekend as Big House so take your pick. Gravy will you be at RoM this year?
Penguin_ftw
Smash Apprentice
I commend everyone who has the balls to stick with such a bad character. I can't do it anymore, I'm taking the spacie way out
Penguin_ftw
Smash Apprentice
He's pretty bad
Zhea
Smash Ace
You have to have a love for Falcon to play Falcon. Because in all honesty your are better off going with one of the top 3. Falcon is an addiction.
Penguin_ftw
Smash Apprentice
Falcon's my favorite character 
Zhea
Smash Ace
And mango didn't do anything flash. He just read westballz. It wouldn't of mattered which top tier he picked, because he already knew what westballz was going to do. If Falcon knows the mind of his opponent, he is better than marth, he is better than shiek.
mixa
Banned via Warnings
falcon is the best character if you know how to read minds
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Oh, that's all it takes? I got this
Nair is secretly Godlike vs Samus, you can use it more in this MU than any other.
There is a lot of info I could give but what specifically bothers you about the MU
Pretty much everything, but I'll try to narrow it down.
I'm kinda iffy on approaching her since she has up-B, CC, tilts and what-not and I'm not sure what kinda spacing I should be looking for when trying to approach her (space with tip-toe nairs, go in with hard knees, overshoot aerials, whatnot).
Kinda hard knowing what kind of followups I should be looking for. I know uair is pretty much BnB in terms of comboing/juggling her, but I'm iffy on what type of launchers I should be doing to get her into the air and I have zero confidence in any other followup besides uair -> stuff so my punishment game is fairly lacking atm.
I don't know how to edgeguard or even where to begin pressuring Samus when he's off stage or at the ledge.
Also, I'm rather unconfident in many followups because Samus seems to be able to nair out of a lot of my followups, cuz she flies a bit far, is floaty, and seems to recover faster than most other characters from what I can tell. This also makes it hard for me to tell when I can follow-up to a knee, so I don't know how to get a reliable kill setup against her.
In general, I know very little about this MU so any gdlike tips you have for it would be much appreciated.
I'm kinda iffy on approaching her since she has up-B, CC, tilts and what-not and I'm not sure what kinda spacing I should be looking for when trying to approach her (space with tip-toe nairs, go in with hard knees, overshoot aerials, whatnot).
Kinda hard knowing what kind of followups I should be looking for. I know uair is pretty much BnB in terms of comboing/juggling her, but I'm iffy on what type of launchers I should be doing to get her into the air and I have zero confidence in any other followup besides uair -> stuff so my punishment game is fairly lacking atm.
I don't know how to edgeguard or even where to begin pressuring Samus when he's off stage or at the ledge.
Also, I'm rather unconfident in many followups because Samus seems to be able to nair out of a lot of my followups, cuz she flies a bit far, is floaty, and seems to recover faster than most other characters from what I can tell. This also makes it hard for me to tell when I can follow-up to a knee, so I don't know how to get a reliable kill setup against her.
In general, I know very little about this MU so any gdlike tips you have for it would be much appreciated.
Approach with spaced Nair a lot, also every time you hit her with an aerial make sure it is FF'ed and then immediately shield when Landing from that aerial because Samus is always CC'ing so if you don't shield immediately when landing from a FF'ed aerial then you will get punished for sure.
When she is shielding make sure your aerials are spaced so she can't Up B OoS on you. Also, Be aware that she is most likely to Up B OoS near the ledges (the ledge of the stage, or platform ledges.) so that she can edge-cancel to get rid of the helpless state falling lag.
Launchers for getting her in the air: Nair can put her in the air if she doesn't CC it. So Nair > u-air > u-air for example. Also, grab is really good so sometimes
instead of throwing out a bunch of aerials, just run in and grab her as a mix-up. Grab in general is good, d-throw is great because it can lead to u-airs if done right. for example, D-throw (jump towards her) FF'ed uair > u-air > U-air. D-throw is better than u-air as it puts Samus lower to the ground where You can FF your aerials to lead into more hits leading into better punishes. When you u-throw her it puts her higher in the air where you can't get as many u-airs on her because at higher percents she will get knocked too far back (because she's floaty) to get any extra u-airs on her and at lower percents there is not enough hitstun to get anything going.
Samus has one of the best recoveries in the game. Not many characters can reliably edgeguard her when she is recovering. When she is recovering you can try and jump offstage to u-air her out of her bombs but it can be risky if you miss so just don't always go for this and make sure you don't jump too far out or else when you whiff, you will end up behind her offstage and she will get back on stage and kill you for it.
Samus is pretty bad on the ledge though, her ledgehop isn't that good I guess so when she ledgehops just put a bair out by the ledge as she is trying to ledgehop on because it will hit a lot but once she starts catching on to this she is forced to play very patient on the ledge.
In general, killing Samus takes longer than most other characters because she is so heavy and has such a good recovery. So unless, you can land a knee on her at like 100%ish you might just have to get an u-air on her in the late 100%'s just to kill her. Also, following up a grab with something like u-air is one of your most reliable ways to kill.
D-throw knee like BARELY works at like 85% ish - 100% percent it is very frame tight trick so I'm not certain if it connects legitimately but it works a lot so you can try it. Other wise just d-throw u-air.
Also, CC doesn't really wear off when you nair her I'm pretty sure, she can no longer CC knee however once she gets to 44% exactly so yea. Knee's are good too vs Samus but remember to shield immediately when landing a knee at 43% or lower.
In general, once you get her past 44% the rest of the stock becomes easier as she can't CC all your aerials. So before she gets to that percent try your best to safely rack up the damage.
Also, Samus's like to D-smash and if you get the chance to react you want to DI those upwards because if you DI mostly any other direction it will send you at a bad angle offstage where she gets an easy edgeguard.
Hope this helped / wasn't too confusing lol.
Thanks a lot wizzy, I was looking for solid advice to deal with a buncha awkward situations and your post helped clear up a lot of stuff.
Zhea
Smash Ace
Wizzrobe regularly plays the best samus players in the country/world. This is the kind of deep matchup analysis we need more of. Especially for some of the mid and low tiers, as they have gotten more popular in nationals. It sucks when you lose a match that is way in Falcon's favor, just because you don't know what to look for.
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
The moment I saw which two players were playing, I liked your comment.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Run circles around us until we get dizzy and are no longer able to battle. Triple and quadruple knees are good to. Don't let us land. If you take our double jump, every Samus is secretly ****ting their pants.
Falcons, what am I generally suppose to crouch cancel against the top 5 chars?
Zhea
Smash Ace
Depends on spacing. If you can get a grab, falcon has the best cc percents of the top tiers. Tilts, aerials, jabs are all good candidates for cc grab. Smash attacks you generally want to shield grab or knee or stomp out of shield if they have bad recovery like shiek down smash. Generally speaking, Kill moves are no long er cc able around the 30 - 40 point. Stronger moves, such as Fox's Bair stop being cc-able around 70. Medium attacks like tilts and dash attacks tend to be cc able till around 80 or 90. Weak hits like hits tend to be safe until low 100's. Jabs are fine at any practical percent (sub 200)
CC'ing as Falcon is pretty useless against spacies. vs Sheik, you can eat a nair/bair into grab when she's above you. I'm truthfully not the best vs Jigglypuff, but it definitely has applications vs her; mostly for when she hits you with a rising aerial (so that she's still in the air after you eat the hit). if she's gonna land the moment after she hits you, I wouldn't CC, as she'll be able to crouch and you wouldn't have a true punish.
enCouRaging Bear
Smash Journeyman
can u punish off of cc'ing sheik's forward tilt? i would imagine at certain spacings u'd even have time to dash grab or wdgrab
Zhea
Smash Ace
If they don't space it yes. If they do space it, it depends on their habits. If they just love that double f tilt, you can shield, WD in and CC the second f tilt and grab them until 93%. Same with other tilts. If they know what your up to, they can mix in grab and d-smash which stuff that option (Technically you can cc dsmash until 72, but I don't recommend it, you take a lot of percent for it and there are better ways of dealing with d smash happy Sheiks). It's kind of like spacies and u tilt if they throw it in and do it once, it's really hard to punish. If they do it twice they are giving you a free knee.
I think an un-discussed aspect of melee is how you force people to respect your options and not just do stupid garbage all the time.
I think an un-discussed aspect of melee is how you force people to respect your options and not just do stupid garbage all the time.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Repeatedly shined by spacies after a flubbed dthrow tech chase. Am I reacting too slow?
Sometimes it's actually worth it to just drop shield and CC a nair or whatever vs spacie shield pressure. Gotten a few game changing grabs that way.
You can always tech chase on reaction with grabs. With some experience you'll be able to tell when you've reacted fast enough to be able to regrab in time and when you haven't. If you know you can't regrab you can try to bait whatever they do after their tech (shine, spotdodge, roll etc) and punish it for massive damage.
You can always tech chase on reaction with grabs. With some experience you'll be able to tell when you've reacted fast enough to be able to regrab in time and when you haven't. If you know you can't regrab you can try to bait whatever they do after their tech (shine, spotdodge, roll etc) and punish it for massive damage.
Zhea
Smash Ace
Yes, but it's hard. If they are di-ing you up throw and down throw away, you can WD up to them( or fox trot if they di-ed super far off an upthrow) to cover tech in place. You should be grabbing them during the vulnerable frames of their tech. You can of course always go for the options mixup of a non ff stomp to cover tech in place and land at their roll away option.
CCing spacie aerials is pretty risky. Both their D-Airs stuff it, and they can fade back with B-Air(followed by shine to stop any follow ups). N-Air is the most vial to CC, but CCing this is primarily a reactive punishment for bad spacing (They hit you with the nair, but are not close enough to shine). Either way, can't really recommend it. Maybe to get a N-Air after CCing a B-Air walling spacie.
Watched Mass Madness
Mad shoutouts to Hax's performance in WF in games 3 + 4, some of the most solid Falcon work I've seen period. Very rare to see a Falcon just plain not **** up.
Also very good games against Thorn. Incredible WD OOS play. A lot of technology to work on for other Falcons.
Would've liked to see you vs. Mew2king in GF cuz it looked like you were riding some momentum from Th0rn. That said, if M2K's in no shape to play, that's just how it goes. Knowing you guys, you'll get another shot at him very soon lol. Congrats on winning the tourney
Mad shoutouts to Hax's performance in WF in games 3 + 4, some of the most solid Falcon work I've seen period. Very rare to see a Falcon just plain not **** up.
Also very good games against Thorn. Incredible WD OOS play. A lot of technology to work on for other Falcons.
Would've liked to see you vs. Mew2king in GF cuz it looked like you were riding some momentum from Th0rn. That said, if M2K's in no shape to play, that's just how it goes. Knowing you guys, you'll get another shot at him very soon lol. Congrats on winning the tourney
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Fod is dumb
Divinokage
Smash Legend
No it's not, I'm actually starting to agree with S2J with Falcon as well Ganon. It can be really really good if you know how to make the stage your own, you can have very sick aerial mixups with ledge cancels or doing an instant aerial by falling from the platform. Sometimes the platform is very low so you barely see the move come out which is good since you can start mixing it up from there and really get into your opponent's mind. All you gotta do is control your character perfectly and then adjust with the stage, you won't miss any aerials ever again, you'll be extremely fast too.
It's also good to learn how to fight close quarters, I personally like it very much but everyone should work on that if they want to become greater players.
Platforms helping falcon hit people on the ground below him is worth little vs Sheik though as she takes more advantage of being able to tilt you through the plats. Not to mention vs a sheik like m2k's who pretty much only goes onstage for a combo oppurtunity any platform mindgame you do becomes moot.
Versus spacies fod is great though.
Jeapie
Smash Journeyman
Shieldrop uair on a low FoD platform. Glorious!