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Social C. Falcon Social

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
hitstun and shieldstun feel significantly different to me. i'm pretty sure that they actually are different timings. and practicing with the barrels and **** won't help your autopilot muscle memory timings but it will help you start thinking about pressing L when you actually hit the ground, regardless of other factors.

i never did this, which is why i suck at fullhop l-cancels
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
They feel different to me too, but the AR dudes keep saying it's the same ...

Starman invincibility feels like a shield to me though
 

Nakamaru

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
3,798
Location
Far far into the stars
It may be where you are hitting on the shield is what makes it feel different from actual hitstun? *shrug* i just know hit stun is the same no matter what you hit. That goes for destructible objects too like on brinstar.
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
hitstun and shieldstun feel significantly different to me. i'm pretty sure that they actually are different timings. and practicing with the barrels and **** won't help your autopilot muscle memory timings but it will help you start thinking about pressing L when you actually hit the ground, regardless of other factors.

i never did this, which is why i suck at fullhop l-cancels
I am also very bad at full hop L-cancels.

I've been working on this a lot. It's so annoying to hit that full hop fast fall stomp and miss the L-cancel so you can't follow up.
 

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
5,821
Location
Mos Eisley
Shields are bigger than character bodies. Hitting a shield sticks out further than hitting the actual body so depending on shield size and where you hit it theres a discrepancy between the time you hit and the time you land.

but stun/lag is the same.
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
1,389
Location
Atl North
Silly question but I've realized there are two attacks Falcon does when getting up off the ground. One attack he comes up with a forward kick and the other times he gets up like a breakdancer spinning his legs. What determines which moves he does? Also, I'm not sure if Falcon has it, but Falco has two different attacks he can do from the edge, what determines what?
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
2 different getup attacks from the ground for when you're laying on your back and laying on your face

2 different getup attacks from the ledge dependent on % - above 100% you'll do a different slower one

Every character is the same I believe
 

iRobinhoood

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
1,389
Location
Atl North
2 different getup attacks from the ground for when you're laying on your back and laying on your face

2 different getup attacks from the ledge dependent on % - above 100% you'll do a different slower one

Every character is the same I believe
Thanks for clearing that one up <3
 

Spyro

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
639
Location
Gallatin,Tennessee
2 different getup attacks from the ground for when you're laying on your back and laying on your face

2 different getup attacks from the ledge dependent on % - above 100% you'll do a different slower one

Every character is the same I believe
Is it bad that I knew this when I played casually? lol

The same thing also applies to when you role from the ledge (you do a faster role from 0%-99%, and you do a slower one if your at 100%+).
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I figured it was common knowledge

It applies to everything you do from the ledge (excluding ledgehop, because you let go from the ledge obviously <_<)

Side note - Rather important for when you're edgeguarding characters like Sheik and Marth
I really like being at above 100 against Marth because you can start your getup super early and not get hit by his moves but I hate it vs Sheik because her recovery starts so slow that you'd rather have an easier time timing it
 

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Premium
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Darkrain beat Kels in winners bracket at SMYM13 tonight!

This is what happens to the old school legends. They need one comeback tourney to shake off the rust, then they put in some ****ing work at the next one. Good stuff.
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
always use light shield edge guarding vs marth if you know for sure he has to up-B and can't dj back. It's so much easier and guaranteed than trying to time the ledge grab + roll.
 

Sparky

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Union City, CA
what i do for edgeguarding marth is grab the ledge and then ledge stand instead of roll. if he decides to upB back on stage. its a easy reverse knee or stomp -> knee.
 

Mateo113

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 29, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Wisconsin
always use light shield edge guarding vs marth if you know for sure he has to up-B and can't dj back. It's so much easier and guaranteed than trying to time the ledge grab + roll.
That's the "marth kill" technique right? Do you just stand on the edge and light shield? I've never seen it down, I usually just ledge grab and roll it works everytime but then again i'm sure you guys are playing better marths than I. Do you have a video of it being done?
 

Wizzrobe

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
2,280
Location
Florida
Darkrain beat Kels in winners bracket at SMYM13 tonight!

This is what happens to the old school legends. They need one comeback tourney to shake off the rust, then they put in some ****ing work at the next one. Good stuff.
Darkrain is coming back strong!

I cant wait to see him do even more amazing stuff.
 

Wolfy!

Indecisive
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
846
Location
Salt, CA
Or if you don't have time to light shield with Z, since you grab then shield, you could just press very lightly on L or R.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Darkrain beat Kels in winners bracket at SMYM13 tonight!

This is what happens to the old school legends. They need one comeback tourney to shake off the rust, then they put in some ****ing work at the next one. Good stuff.
But he didn't win. =/ I wanted him to win with Falcon. =(
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
it's so easy to do.

Roll back towards the ledge as you see jeapie do here.

HOLD Z to light shield.

Angle shield down and outwards towards marth.

When he hits your shield you grab ledge....SO easy to do. No reason not to do it if you know he doesn't have his double jump to go back onto the ledge
There's actually no reason to angle it down, you just hold away from the stage
I've known people to just fail completely at it because they're angling it too far down and not enough away
 

JonnyW

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
717
Location
Portland OR
Light shielding marths is pretty homo honestly. There are other options that will work against his recovery even if he has his double jump. I just continually waveland from the stage onto the edge and make sure to do it right as they are using they're second jump. Pretty much makes them have to recover on the stage which will get you a free knee. You can literally go from on the edge, to wave landing on the stage back to the edge in less than half a second. Works on soooo many characters like Sheik too.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
light shield --> then grab edge pre emptively and watch them up-b early
 

Nakamaru

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
3,798
Location
Far far into the stars
Just watched some hax videos and his ledge trick vs marth is actually pretty slick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5ya4M7oNe0Y#t=167s

He waits for the up-b, then double jumps back from the ledge, and then fastfalls to regrab. Falcon jumps right over marth's up-b.

The lightshield thing is way way better in terms of consistency and risk, but the ledge hop is pretty mindgamey and would be nice for mixups.
 

Mizar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Netherlands
Or if you don't have time to light shield with Z, since you grab then shield, you could just press very lightly on L or R.
If you hold Z during your roll you won't grab but light shield as your roll ends.
Pressing L or R lightly has more room for error I think.

@ Nakamaru
I wouldn't say its nice for mixups since you risk getting hit with marths swordtip and thus failing the edgeguard. Light shield back tilt is basically a stock, even if marth ends up on the stage you can just knee or dair knee the from the ledge.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I don't believe in Z light shields. I always use L/R. You can actually get a bigger lightshield with the analogue buttons (or so i've been told)
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
i think angling down is so u fast fall ledge grab
You don't need to fastfall
If you fastfall you actually run the risk of not grabbing the ledge at all
Marth doesn't grab the ledge fast enough for fastfalling to be necessary
 

Nakamaru

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
3,798
Location
Far far into the stars
I used in my set vs KK.

The best way to do it is to hold up on the c-stick and then tap up on the control stick as the jab hits. : / You can do it with just the control stick, but it is a tighter window and less consistent.
 

Mizar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Netherlands
I'm pretty sure Hax used it in his matches against Amsah at Pound V (good example right here)
At 64% you basically get reset in midair. I don't think hax had to do anything to escape that one, it wasn't an SDI either. Do you have an example of low % escape?

@Nakamaru
Friend of mine is testing TAS C-stick DI but isn't getting different results from it then regular SDI/DI. With anything.
To me atm, c-stick DI is a myth until proven otherwise.
 

Mizar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Netherlands
I'm pretty sure people have been doing this for like 2 years now...
Can you show me footage of someone getting out of jabreset on low% like in the vid?
It requires SDI, instead of normal DI as Wolfy showed in the hax vs amsah match (though it even seemed like hax didn't even/had to DI there since he just got reset in midair and you don't really see a momentum change on the hit)
 

Wolfy!

Indecisive
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
846
Location
Salt, CA
Well, I didn't find any footage (yet...), but Mizar, you are right about the vid I posted. My mistake, but at least it does detail one of the ways to get out of jab resets (at a higher percentage). I found an old post by Magus detailing the jab reset percents and stuff, however. Of course, doing it with TAS gives you a whole 'nother world of control when it comes to the SDI stuff. I'm curious to know exactly what the inputs were for that video you posted, just to see how it worked in a more detailed light, of course.
 
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