Buster attacks and their safety on hit (OPEN TO HELP)

[Berserker.]

Since no one paid attention >_>

@ Masonomace has been working on a project about the safety of buster attacks on hit against certain characters or weight classes. If you can help, PLEASE DO. Thanks

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Buster Shulk's safety

Jab combo
: Safe starting at 0%


Jab combo (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 10%

Dash attack
: Safe starting at 30% (if your Dash attack is too close upon hitting him, he can buffer D-air before landing, which you can perfect shield at 30%)
Dash attack (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 60%

F-tilt Blade
: Safe starting at 20%

F-tilt Blade (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 45%

F-tilt Beam
: Safe starting at 15 – 20%

F-tilt Beam (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 40 – 45%

U-tilt Blade
: Safe starting at 0% (He can attempt D-air right before touching the ground, but we can perfect shield it)
U-tilt Blade (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 0% (must be spaced away from his D-air landing range) OR 40% (up close, we can perfect shield his D-air landing)
D-tilt Blade
: Safe starting at 0%

D-tilt Blade (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 20% (Before 20%, it's a stalemate of who does what, but you're still unsafe because you can only perfect shield his jab-1, so wait until prior to 20% if the Bowser crouches a lot)
D-tilt Beam
: Safe starting at 0%

D-tilt Beam (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 0% (Bowser crouching extends his hand out, making it safer to zone a crouching Bowser)
F-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd Blades
: Safe starting at 20%

F-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd Blades (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 15% (Bowser crouching against F-smash's 1st hit makes him pounce on the ground & slide away)
F-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd Blades angled up
: Safe starting at 15%

F-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd Blades angled up (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 15%

F-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd Blades angled down
: Safe starting at 15%

F-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd Blades angled down (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 20%

F-smash Uncharged 2nd hitting Beam
: Safe starting at 25%

F-smash Uncharged 2nd hitting Beam (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 50%

F-smash Uncharged 2nd hitting Beam angled up
: Safe starting at 20%

F-smash Uncharged 2nd hitting Beam angled up (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 40%

F-smash Uncharged 2nd hitting Beam angled down
: Safe starting at 25%

F-smash Uncharged 2nd hitting Beam angled down (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 45%

U-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd hit (up close)
: Safe starting at 30% (Technically before 30% he can input D-air before landing & punish us. . .although we deal 25% & he only can punish us with at most 2%)
U-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd hit (up close) (crouched against)
: Never safe (he can crouch the 1st hit of U-smash & perfect shield the 2nd hit even at 999%. . .U-smash's hard-counter confirmed)
U-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd hit (1st hit knockup into the 2nd hit)
: Safe starting at 15% (We can perfect shield any aerial he tries, & can roll away from his Flying Slam command grab)
U-smash Uncharged 1st & 2nd hit (1st hit knockup into the 2nd hit) (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 15% (Same result even when he crouches)
F-air Blade
: Safe starting at 0% (with FF)
F-air Blade (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 0% (spaced well with FF) OR 5% (being very close with FF)
F-air Beam
: Safe starting at 0%

F-air Beam (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 0% (Space this out a bit, with FF)
B-air Blade (in front or behind)
: Safe starting at 0% (with FF)
B-air Blade (in front or behind) (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 20% (from the front with FF) OR 15% (from the back slightly spaced with FF)
B-air Beam
: Safe starting at 0% (with FF)
B-air Beam (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 0% (with FF)
D-air Grounded 1st hit & 2nd hitting Meteor effect
: Safe starting at 70% (with FF)
D-air Grounded 1st hit & 2nd hitting Meteor effect (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 95 – 100% (with FF)
D-air Grounded 1st hit & 2nd hitting Beam (no Meteor effect)
: Safe starting at 15% (with FF)
D-air Grounded 1st hit & 2nd hitting Beam (no Meteor effect) (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 40 – 45% (with FF)
Back slash Front hit
: Safe starting at: 50% (strong 14% hit. Roll away to avoid his Dash options)
60% (Base 12% hit. Roll away to avoid his Dash options)
50% (tipper 12% hit. Roll away to avoid his Dash options)
Back Slash Front hit (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 75% (strong 14% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
110% (base 12% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
60% (tipper 12% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
Back slash Rear hit
: Safe starting at 25% (strong 22% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
40% (base 19% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
20% (tipper 19% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
Back Slash Rear hit (crouched against)
: Safe starting at 55% (strong 22% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
75% (base 19% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
50% (tipper 19% hit. Roll away to avoid his running dash options)
Air slash
: Safe starting at 55% (with delaying the 2nd slash, drifting backwards in between slashes, & FF'ing to the ground)
Air Slash (crouched against)
: NEVER SAFE (he can crouch the 1st hit & not be launched high enough to be hit by the 2nd slash at 999%. . .)

 

[Masonomace]

@ Berserker. I'll think of an alternate layout for the listed moves, but that might be resolved from more characters put under each move. Speaking of moves, here's Jab Combo stuff, but I didn't finish it near the bottom for two reasons:

1. Those guys are all light to the max & can probably avoid Jab Combo (unless we delay Jabs)
2. I'm leaving soon & wanted to post this for an update

Without further ado, Jab Combo stuff:

Jab combo
(Hyper Shield): Never safe (he lands on the ground just before Jab-3 hits & can perfect shield the Jab-3 at 999%)
(Decisive Shield): Safe starting at 95%. If the DShield Shulk is mashing Air Slash in between the Jab combo, then you're safe starting at 120% (at the 120% mark, he's too far away to hit you with Air Slash)
(Shield): Safe starting at 65% w/o DI. If the Shield Shulk is mashing Air Slash in between the Jab combo, then you're safe starting at 85% (at the 85% mark, he's too far away to hit you with Air Slash)
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0% (roll away if your shield isn't at full HP because he could attempt using Headbutt to break your shield)
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0% (be careful of a fully charged Charge Shot potentially breaking your shield if it's half HP for example)
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0%. If the ROB DIs upward he can punish with F-air, which then we're safe starting at 15% with DI.
: Safe starting at 20% (he can buffer dash grab after being hit by Jab-3, so proceed with caution early on)
: Safe starting at 0% (if he tries to hookshot grab you, rolling away or side-stepping out of the way works)
: Safe starting at 0%
(Vanilla): Safe starting at 0 – 5% w/o DI (dependent on Jab-1's spacing). If Shulk is trying to mash Air Slash in between the Jab combo, then you're safe starting at 5%
/(Max Weight Mii): Safe starting at
: Safe starting at 0%
/(Default Weight Mii): Safe starting at
: Safe starting at 0%. If Lucario is DI'ing upwards against a spaced Jab-1, he'll be dealt 15% instead
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0%
/: Safe starting at 0%. If Villager is DI'ing upwards against a spaced Jab-1, he'll be dealt 15% instead
/(Min Weight Mii): Safe starting at
: Never safe at very close range with Jab-1 because he can hold up during the Jab combo & avoid being hit by Jab-3. which is a free Shoryuken punish for us. Otherwise, a spaced Jab-1 > Jab combo is safe starting at 0% but will deal the 15% instead (delay your Jab combo if needed)
/: Safe starting at 0% w/o DI. If you're too close during the Jab Combo she / he can avoid Jab-3 if she / he DI's up. If you space your Jab-1 & she / he holds up they'll be dealt 15% instead (delay your Jab Combo if needed)
: Safe starting at 0% even if he DI's up
: Safe starting at 0% even if he DI's up
/: Safe starting at 0% (Technically you're safe for it, but If you're too close to Robin & he / she DI's up, he / she can N-air punish just before landing. In this special case, you're safe at 5%)
: Safe starting at 0% even if he DI's up from a spaced Jab-1 or very close. (If he DI's up from a spaced Jab-1 & holds up during the Jab combo, he gets dealt 15% instead & we can perfect shield the F-air coming out in this case)
: Safe starting at 0%. (At very close range Pac-Man can hold up during the Jab combo to be only dealt 15%, & while being hit from a spaced Jab-1 followed by the Jab combo, Pac-Man still gets dealt 15% instead. Results may vary)
: Safe starting at 10% (Similar to , Greninja will attempt a dash grab opportunity whether he DI's up during the Jab combo or not. If he does DI up, he'll have a better chance punishing the Jab combo)
: Safe starting at 0% (we can perfect shield any aerials he tries using after the Jab Combo finishes. If he DI's upward from a spaced Jab-1 into Jab Combo, he'll get dealt 15% instead)
: Safe starting at 0% (whether Jab-1 hits at very close range or from a spaced distance, Toon Link will usually get dealt 15% if he holds up during the Jab Combo)
: Safe starting at 0% (be careful not to use Jab-1 too close. By the time Diddy lands without needing to DI, he can hit us with D-tilt before we put up shield)
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at 0 – 10% (If Jab-1 is very close hitting Duck Hunt, it'll deal 17% & Duck Hunt is able to punish Jab Combo with his F-air until we reach 10%, which is when we can perfect shield his F-air. If Duck Hunt DI's up no matter how close or how far Jab-1 connects in th Jab Combo, Duck Hunt will be dealt 15% instead & cannot punish with F-air because he's launched higher from the Jab-3 sourspot)
: Safe starting at 0% (A spaced Jab-1 followed into the Jab Combo deals 15% to her & she cannot punish us with an aerial because the Jab'3 sourspot launches her so high that her falling aerial is perfect shielded. Worry about her Shield Breaker mix-up) OR 15% (If Jab-1 is very close hitting her, it'll deal 17% & she can punish our Jab-3's endlag with F-air dealing 9%, until Buster Shulk is at 15% is when she can't reach us)
: Safe starting at 0% (A spaced Jab-1 leading to the Jab Combo deals 15%, but Jab-3's sourspot launches Marth so high that he can't punish you with any aerial except going for that early Shield Breaker mix-up so be careful) OR 15% (Marth hit by Jab-1 at very close range can punish the Jab Combo with his F-air tippered, which deals 11%. This changes when we reach 15% where not even Marth drifting toward us & inputting F-air will work because we can perfect shield it. Watch out for the Shield Breaker mix-up here as well)
(Smash): Safe starting at 0% (A Jab-1 at very close range will naturally deal 17% to Smash Shulk without DI, but when Smash Shulk DI's upward he'll instead take the Jab-3 sourspot in the Jab Combo dealing 15%, launching him too high for him to punish with Air Slash since we can perfect shield that anyway) OR Never safe? (A well-spaced Jab-1 has mixed results against Smash Shulk when he DI's upward. One result is him avoiding the Jab-2 while another result is both Jab-1 & Jab-2 connecting but launched so high that Jab-3 does not connect. And one more result is the entire Jab Combo connecting, sending Smash Shulk much higher. It's definitely advised to think about delaying Jab-3 if needed. This potentially can be very unsafe, so be aware of this kind of moment)
: Safe starting at 0% (A well-spaced or relatively spaced Jab-1 to lead into the Jab Combo can be safe at 0% even if the Peach is DI'ing upward in hopes to avoid the Jab-3 & float. She's only able to avoid our Jab-3 & float if we're literally in her face doing Jab Combo, which isn't highly recommended. Anyhow a Peach without DI'ing will be dealt 17% frequently, but usually a Peach being light & floaty will majorly get dealt 15%)
: Technically Never Safe (Normally a Zelda who won't DI upward would get dealt the 15% due to the Jab-3 sourspot launching her higher than usual. However, once a Zelda knows she can just hold up she can escape a Jab Combo whether the Jab-1 is spaced or in her face. I suggest mixing up the Jab Combo or just delay Jab-3, & don't be scared of her Nayru's Love attempting to beat your delayed Jab-3, because Jab-3 doesn't care <3)
: Safe starting at 20% (Similarly to & , Sheik will attempt to do a dash grab or a dash attack after she's launched from either a spaced or close-ranged Jab-1 into Jab Combo. When she hits 15% it's manageable to avoid dash grab, but a buffered dash attack comes out much quicker & won't be safe to block until 20%)
/: Safe starting at 0% (Without DI, Little Mac majorly gets dealt the 15% Jab Combo from Jab-3's sourspot launching Little Mac higher airborne which makes Shulk safer. Stay close to him when you connect your Jab-1 & don't space it to the max) OR Never safe? (When Buster Shulk spaces his Jab-1 hit very well, Little Mac without DI will be dealt 15%, however when the Little Mac player DI's upward throughout the Jab Combo he'll either avoid Jab-3 or barely get hit by Jab-3 launching him in the air even further. If he's able to avoid Jab-3, he has frame advantage which can mean that you're basically boned if he has KO Punch & you at least have 18% as Buster Shulk. . .take extreme caution with this moment)
: Safe starting at 10 – 15% (At earlier percentages he can punish with Jab, F-tilt, or his Reflector if he DI's correctly as he lands on the floor, but the trade of damage still goes to Buster Shulk's favor)
: Safe starting at 10%
: Safe starting at 0% (Technically he can punish you with Shuttle Loop, but that puts him in a place where you can punish his punish. Strange isn't it?)
: Safe starting at 20 – 25% (He can land on the ground & punish Jab-3's endlag with Dash attack or Dash grab, but mostly Dash attack until about 20+%. We can perfect shield the Dash attack early if he doesn't DI upwards during the Jab Combo)
/: Never Safe to do full Jab Combo? (Although Olimar naturally gets dealt 15% by Buster's Jab Combo without DI involved & regardless of the spacing, a competent Olimar will DI upward throughout the Jab Combo to potentially avoid Jab-3 no matter the spacing or maybe even the amount of delay in between Jabs. One solution is to delay Jab-2 & Jab-3 by a slight margin so that your Jab-3 will be sourspotted to challenge what Olimar will do. This will need more testing)
: Safe starting at 0%
: Safe starting at ? (Will definitely need testing & advice on this)
: Never safe to do full Jab Combo? (Without DI involved, Kirby gets hit by the Jab combo dealing 15% regardless of the spacing. However, Kirby can DI upward during the Jab Combo to potentially avoid Jab-3. At this point there's no reason to call it a Jab Combo, but rather a Jab read since you have to delay the Jabs so that Jab-3 will be sourspotted versus Kirby's options. I recommend stopping at either Jab-1 or continue doing Jab-1 > Jab-2 & then stop to mix up from there if you're unsure)
: Safe starting at 0% (Normally without DI, G&W will be dealt the 17% whether he's hit from Jab-1 followed into the Jab combo from up close or from good spacing. Note that when the G&W DI's upward, he'll be hit by Jab-3's sourspot doing the 15%)
: Never safe to do full Jab Combo (She's knocked too high up from just Jab-1 > Jab-2 no matter how long you delay Jab-3 or even delaying Jab-2. I recommend mixing up after Jab-1 as you don't want to commit to doing Jab-3 & then whiffing it followed by a Rest incoming)
(Hyper Smash): Never safe to do full Jab Combo? (Needs more testing)

 

[Berserker.]

Anyone still willing to help?

 

[Masonomace]

Anyone still willing to help?

sure.
I'm all here for ya.

but seriously. . my smah wiiu game disc has a perfect circle scratch that's starting to form so I'm taking a break from smash. Once I get it buffed out I'll be able to continue this lengthy project.

 

[Berserker.]

Intentional bump

Anyone willing to help?

 

[Maple42]

If you have the 3DS version, I can help, although I don't necessarily understand what you're doing, so you might have to run me through it u w u"

 

[Berserker.]

If you have the 3DS version, I can help, although I don't necessarily understand what you're doing, so you might have to run me through it u w u"

Decreased knockback causes less hitsun which allows opponents to punish Shulk EVEN if he lands a hit with buster art. We need to know which moves are punishable on hit on a certain character and at which percentage

 

[DrShankums]

I'll try to help when I can, I don't get much free time anymore but this kind of stuff is good to know. I'm sorry to say that this thread kinda scares me with its formatting, I'm not sure what or how exactly you're testing. I'd be happy to help though, knowing when attacks are safe is pretty much necessary, especially for shulk. Are we just seeing when hit stun wears off of characters at different %'s?

 

[Locke 06]

Mmmm... A quick thought. Shulk's rage will increase your safety on hit. Makes things a tad bit more complex, but definitely a variable to account for.

 

[Berserker.]

We'll try to ignore rage as a variable, for now

 

[Masonomace]

Rage is definitely the saving grace for Buster's on-hit safety. But yeah, it'll be disregarded for now 'cus I don't recall Rage's cap & when it starts becoming noticeable.

 

[Berserker.]

You guys should start with buster dash attack but take your time anyway.

I feel like we're better off doing dash attack after doing f-tilt, u-tilt or d-tilt since no one cares about dash attack anyway