Buffs you would like to see Jr. get?

[Smashifer]

Okay, well first off, I hope I'm not making another thread of an existing one. If so I apologize.

But, well, as the title suggests, what buffs would you like to see Bowser Jr. receive? I have some of my own ideas. Please leave some feedback!
-Give less endlag on his neutral B

-Give his jab a more horizontal push. I hate seeing people getting pushed out of my own jab before I can finish it because it sends them diagonally for whatever reason.

-Give less endlag on his down B. The Mechakoopa hits the ground and Bowser Jr. decides not to move until the Mechakoopa does.

These are all of my changes I would like to see Bowser Jr. get. Do you guys agree, or am I spitting nonsense?

 

[Metalex]

Those are all good ones and the first that came to my mind too. Would probably say that Canonball needs both less startup frames and endlag to be better though.

Some i think is important is:

- Make the first hit of Abandon ship (Up B) combo into the explosion as its way too easy to avoid as it is now.

- Make it so that Bowser Jr always can use his Abandon ship again after getting hit out of it. It's very annoying when trying to recover that you fall down helplessly after getting hit out of it with some weaker attacks!

- Remove the mechanic where Bowser Jr takes more damage than other characters on his body... That's just pointless.

Also, id really like Side B to have a hitbox when you use it in the air but thats probably not too important.

Bowser Jr is so fun to play though so i hope they wont start to mess with his hitboxes, damage etc too much. Many characters have gotten buffs but some also very unmotivated nerfs at the same time

 

[pikazz]

what I think is important:

- Side Bs Super Armor is much bigger and constant, not only on the tires or when you "land" with him during Side B. making SideB easy wreck through marios Fireball and Falcos Lasers ect

- Side Bs gives little more shieldstun so the opponent cant shield through it and attack Jr while you either Spin out or Jump on hit

- the UpB Cart hit is longer hitstun so the Hit+Explosion is a true combo instead for escapeable (or the explosion could be faster)

- Smash Attack Breaks Shield or has much less endlag

- it requires less damage/knockback to get back the clown kart after UpB

- A better killthrow and a Combo starter throw

Nice things to have:

- NAir Autocancel on SH

- Landing DAir has more Shieldstun so you can attack them if they are still in shield

- Some small buff tweaks at Framedata and IASA and other stuff

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

These may sound like I'm asking for much, but here it goes:

• Make NAir auto-cancellable out of a short-hop.
• Make Neutral specials start up faster (even Neutral 1) and have less endlag.
• Make Down 1 have less startup & endlag as well.
• Allow Jab string to go straight to the launching finisher via holding the A button (mashing A would be required to get E. Honda's Hundred Hand Slaps) like most other characters.
• Either extend his grab range, make it quicker, or reduce its endlag upon missing. All 3 would be very nice.
• Let his BThrow and/or FThrow and/or UThrow KO sooner.
• Restore DThrow's damage to its former levels. Also let us get legit follow-ups from it like Charizard & ZSS & Luigi do.
• Give us what was promised in the Reveal Trailer: FSmash either breaking shields outright in 1 go, or heavily damaging shields.
• Give us a reason to use Up 3 (Koopa Meteor), like buff its horizontal movement, or make it go even higher up than Up 1 does, or something else entirely. I honestly have NO idea when I'd want to run this, aside from MAYBE against Little Mac or MAYBE in Doubles for the least amount of partner disruption in comparison to Up 1 & Up 2.

This is a personal want-around that MIGHT be too much to ask, but...

Give us (and every single character) a tutorial area as detailed as (or more than) Skullgirls, so more players who DON'T go here will be aware of tech like pressing R post Up B to get back the Car, Side B-ing through certain projectiles & moves, and Side B Jump Cancels, due to the game itself showing you possible follow-ups from Side B, as well as scenarios to demonstrate said tech (ex. Side B-ing through Mechakoopas, starting you post Up B and already getting hit with something like CPU Jr's NAir or FAir). While it may not buff Jr directly, it would buff his many players that never seem to use Side B Jump Cancels at any point during a match, whether in FG Anywhere, Anther's Ladder, or other places. However, it would also buff the players of other characters that struggle against fighting Jr, possibly leading to our good MUs not being as good as they used to be.


This buff idea certainly sound like too much to ask/hope for, but here it goes:

Allow us to use Jab, Tilts, Smashes, and Grabs right out of Side B Jump Cancels somehow (Side B --> Jump Cancel and then either IMMEDIATELY input Jab or Grab or Tilts or Smashes right after the JC or at the same time as the JC??). Not even Sonic can do this out of his Side B... right?

 

[Metalex]

Good ideas @ Splooshi Splashy , giving Bowser Jr a combo throw and better grab range would probably be one of, if not the best buff to give him.

Not sure about being able to do smash, tilt, grab etc out of jump cancel though. While it sounds totally awesome it would probably lead to scenarios where for example you want to do a quick Side B jump cancel > Fair but end up throwing out a Forward Smash or forward Tilt instead.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

Actually, I just came up with a better idea that can still allow my last buff idea in the last post to be more plausible: Let us shield or airdodge either before or during our Side B. Not only do the shield buttons currently have no function during our Side B, but being able to shield DURING our Side B makes approaching with it SO much safer (even with Grounding Dash), and it will still allow us to use Jab, Tilts, Smashes, and Grabs right after putting down shield (and USmash & Grabs are possible DURING shield) without interfering with our ability to do Side B --> JC --> Aerials.

Sonic gets to shield & jump before actually firing off his Side B, so why not us too?

'Course, to balance this out, it would have to be impossible to shield during our Spinouts.

 

[V1cegrip]

if jr could shield out of dash he would be the most intense mixup character ever. Buffs I want for Jr. include:

1. Slightly increased grab range (perhaps as long as lucas but without the horrific endlag)

2. Up B 5% falling kart hitbox connecting more consistently into the 13% explosion hitbox.

3. jabs being more consistent (even if it means lowering how much damage it does).

4. dtilt being slightly more consistent (sometimes a luigi can nair you between the licks etc.)

5. Utilt having a better hitbox directly in front of it (it's a great anti-air as it is, it just whiffs too much on grounded opponents)

6. Nair being able to autocancel on a SH and removing its blindspots.

7. Slightly decreased lag on both cannon and down B mecha.


also yea, screw that mechanic that gives us bonus dmg in 95% of situations.

 

[krazyzyko]

I'd like the cannon ball to be chargeable like sheik, DK or PM samus who can charge it air borne.

Faster grab with lower knock back in dthrow or up throw so their could be a legit follow up.

It'll be cool if Jr could pocket his MK back with down B and other projectiles with an empty chute.

His up b hammer hitbox shouldn't whiff when executed on top of a grounded opponent.

I agree that is up B should happen after any hit and that his nair needs a hitbox on the cart.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I feel like fsmash should have a lot more shield pressure, especially when you consider how it was depicted in the reveal trailer. Aside from that, I think uthrow/bthrow should be stronger in order to be reliable kill options and u/dsmash should have less ending lag.

 

[Kaladin]

Really, I think he just needs a combo throw and less startup/endlag on canon ball.

 

[CocoaCannon]

Mostly what i want is a faster and slightly longer ranged grab. Also a combo out of a grab D-Throw would be nice (This is Super D-Throw Bros after all).

 

[Kaladin]

Let me just note: if I had my way, his combo throw would be Bthrow and kill throw would be Dthrow. Because I damn well can.

 

[Shrokatii]

make him have a kill throw so shields are less safe against him, and make his dash speed faster.

for luxery buffs, make it so its harder to di out of jab and make his grab range a tad further

 

[Ze Diglett]

• Make Up-B's first hit combo into the explosion reliably
  
• Give him either a useful combo throw or a kill throw
• Increase grab range or make it faster (there's no reason for it to be that slow when it only has a bit more range than any non-tether grab)
• Give Mechakoopa a consistent hitbox while it's being spawned
• Increase dash speed (he's in a car, for god's sake)
• Make Clown Cannon an actually useful projectile
• Get rid of that stupid "weak hit after your Up-B leaves you in freefall" thing

 

[Dessa]

Just a better grab (either faster, or more range), and I'm set.

 

[AncientCode42]

I agree with some of these. I main Larry Koopa, and I would love to see a buff in his jab. I would get annoyed with how easily people fell out of this move before I finished the animation. I think neutral B could use less start-up and less end lag, the mechakoopa should have less end lag too. Besides canceling it at the ledge it's hard to grab because you're only given time to move when it's already started to move ahead of you toward the opponent.

His grab could also use some work too, it has punishable end-lag and his throws need to be stronger. It also could use more range.

 

[Naklsonofnakkl]

Pretty much everything Splooshi Splashy said but include damage buff so every hit does ridiculous amounts of damage. Almost every smash is a huge risk and is so easy to avoid that there should be far more punishment for getting caught up in them than a measly amount of chip damage that can barely lower a shield let alone KO someone. Also give him some hits that shoot characters straight instead of always at an angle. It is hard to follow up with a lot of decent moves in air when the opponent is just being tossed way out of your reach.

 

[Blanc]

i just want less landing lag on upb hammer tbh

 

[xDizxy]

Less lag on fair and bair
Increase running speed
Give him throw combos
Less lag on cannonball
If he gets these buffs, he could jump up to A tier or am I being delusional?

 

[pikazz]

Less lag on fair and bair
Increase running speed
Give him throw combos
Less lag on cannonball
If he gets these buffs, he could jump up to A tier or am I being delusional?

he would go higher in tier yes but to get to A Tier he needs better setups and options which many in the A Tier has.
but those buffs would be good together with SHAC NAir 'w'

 

[FireBullet]

- A better grab. Please. If they would just do that I would be happy.
- Make his Nair less laggy, at least make it auto-cancel out of a SH. Jr's Nair is a fast 'get off me' move but it's so risky, even as an OoS option.
- Either make his jab end faster, or make his D-tilt's 3 hits connect better. They're both 4-frame pokes, but his jab is so inexplicably unsafe it's not even worth using most of the time. You can't even pressure shields, bait things out or even hit confirm with the 2nd jab cause it's smash punishable... on hit. If you go past the 1st jab you might as well throw out the flurry and hope they tried to punish the 2nd jab and not roll behind you. I appreciate the flurry's damage and the kill potential on the final hit, but it's a huge risk, and can be gotten out of easily.

Everything else is a bonus.
- His U-tilt's hitbox can be deceptively small. It doesn't quite hit in front of him but it doesn't quite hit directly above him either.
- Something that would improve Jr's recovery options would be great. Maybe make it so you can still double-jump out of side-b's JC. Or give Jr another jump, I mean he's got a propeller, he's basically flying everywhere anyway.

 

[Naklsonofnakkl]

Now all we need to do it just fly to Japan and play Bowser Jr. in tournaments to get Sakurai's attention and hope that he wont give Gannon another buff instead.

 

[Bill cipher3]

All his throws or some usable and crawling. Too bad we can't get crawling.

 

[Burruni]

A better grab
D-tilt comboes better into its own hits
Up+B's ship better hits into the explosion
Cannonball has less ending lag
A single kill throw

 

[xDizxy]

We're getting close to October. Cross my fingers that Sakurai gives jr the ike treatment.

 

[Reila]

Make the cannonball viable, please. Such a cool looking move, but its also too situational... to not say borderline useless.

 

[Dcas]

if jr could shield out of dash he would be the most intense mixup character ever. Buffs I want for Jr. include:

1. Slightly increased grab range (perhaps as long as lucas but without the horrific endlag)

2. Up B 5% falling kart hitbox connecting more consistently into the 13% explosion hitbox.

3. jabs being more consistent (even if it means lowering how much damage it does).

4. dtilt being slightly more consistent (sometimes a luigi can nair you between the licks etc.)

5. Utilt having a better hitbox directly in front of it (it's a great anti-air as it is, it just whiffs too much on grounded opponents)

6. Nair being able to autocancel on a SH and removing its blindspots.

7. Slightly decreased lag on both cannon and down B mecha.


also yea, screw that mechanic that gives us bonus dmg in 95% of situations.

This.

1, 5,6 and 7 are needed asap. Adding to point 1, making his bthrow wayyy stronger, you know something that can kill at 100 ish.

 

[DittoMaster6]

1. Increase the super armor on Side B so we don't get wrecked as much by characters like Mario.

2. Make it so Jab is harder to fall out of.

3. Either decrease the amount of increased damage done to Bowser Jr's body, or get rid of that mechanic altogether. (I can live with increased knockback, though.)

4. Have the first hit of the Up B combo into the explosion.

5. Decrease the Cannonball's lag. Both startup and ending lag.

6. Have Neutral Air autocancel on shorthop.

7. Have Down Throw become a combo throw, and do slightly more damage.

8. Slightly further grab.

9. Give Side B a hitbox in the air.

10. Make it so Up Tilt hits both further in front of him, and directly above him.

If those were to be implemented, then I would be a very happy Ditto.

 

[xDizxy]

1. Increase the super armor on Side B so we don't get wrecked as much by characters like Mario.

2. Make it so Jab is harder to fall out of.

3. Either decrease the amount of increased damage done to Bowser Jr's body, or get rid of that mechanic altogether. (I can live with increased knockback, though.)

4. Have the first hit of the Up B combo into the explosion.

5. Decrease the Cannonball's lag. Both startup and ending lag.

6. Have Neutral Air autocancel on shorthop.

7. Have Down Throw become a combo throw, and do slightly more damage.

8. Slightly further grab.

9. Give Side B a hitbox in the air.

10. Make it so Up Tilt hits both further in front of him, and directly above him.

If those were to be implemented, then I would be a very happy Ditto.

I agree with a lot of this but i dont think Sakurai would do number 1, since most super armor moves are slow.

 

[pikazz]

I know one thing thats pretty needed for Jr that no one have brought up!

Make so Jr Hurtbox doesnt overlap Clown Cart Hurtbox! the chances are that when you are hitting Jr around the clown cart face you will most likely hit Jr Himself, taking more damage than he should have due his "more Damage on Jr, Less Damage on Clown" gimmick.

make it otherway around, meaning that clown cart Hurtbox overlaps Jr instead, making it harder to hit Jr! therefore we make much better use of the "more damage on Jr, less damage on clown" cause we would win that more and make his "Duck/Squat" animation better use.
also, if that happens, the SideB super armor would be in theory buffed the same time! it would make Jrs Hurtbox protected by the clown cart hurtbox which is in super armor

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

From what I see Jr. needs some buffs and tweaks to make him balanced and then he will be fine. I agree with some but to the ones who want a longer grab with less endlag you are not thinking balance.

Just a better grab (either faster, or more range), and I'm set.

 

[Dessa]

I would be neglectful if I didn't wish for a better cannon too. Faster startup or less endlag so it can be a pary of BJ's pressure game.

 

[xDizxy]

From what I see Jr. needs some buffs and tweaks to make him balanced and then he will be fine. I agree with some but to the ones who want a longer grab with less endlag you are not thinking balance.

No what we're trying to say is make his grab has more range OR less endlag.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

No what we're trying to say is make his grab has more range OR less endlag.

Go back and read my post. I agreed with Dessa and V1cegrip + CocoaCannon wanted both.
While I don't think he would be OP with both, I want a balanced Jr.

I would be neglectful if I didn't wish for a better cannon too. Faster startup or less endlag so it can be a pary of BJ's pressure game.

Also this is def important as is less endlag on Mk.

 

[Dessa]

Less lag on MK would be nice, but having seen what Tweek can do with them nonetheless, they are pretty useful as they are.

 

[Shabadoo]

His Kart needs better super armor, the cannon needs less lag, the MK needs less lag but not really when dropped from the air because that lets us grab it easier in the first place. A kill throw would be nice, back throw or forward throw preferably. I like the idea of grabbing someone and punching them with a giant boxing glove at like 110% or something and killing them.

 

[What is Smash?]

He needs a WFT overhaul.
-Nair lag decreased
-Cannon lag decreased
-FSmash has as much shield pressure as aerial Wizard's Foot
-Back Throw kill at 125 at the ledge
-FThrow-Cart at low percents, FThrow-FAir at mid percents

Edit: Add less lag for Up B hammer, don't let weak hits make it so you don't get the cart back, make the F-Throw combos true, and top 20 character

But that's all I can think of ATM.

 

[Smashifer]

FThrow-FAir at mid percents

I know that at lower percents, you can FThrow, read the jump, and go for a double jump FAir. It's not guaranteed and some smarter players will learn it but it is a pretty good trick.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Older thread, but I feel you guys were kinda missing the mark. I feel bjr just truly needs his jab and Dtilt tofully link into the last hits. He could then beat ALOT of stuff close range and remove that horrible dead zone kinda in front of him. I also think removing half the lag in clown cannon and allowing it to be shield cancelable will give him some more depth to work as well and allow him to be even more versatile. Lastly, buffing his Bthrow is the icing on the cake that'll allow him to kill far more efficiently.

 

[FlabbyOrb]

Older thread, but I feel you guys were kinda missing the mark. I feel bjr just truly needs his jab and Dtilt tofully link into the last hits. He could then beat ALOT of stuff close range and remove that horrible dead zone kinda in front of him. I also think removing half the lag in clown cannon and allowing it to be shield cancelable will give him some more depth to work as well and allow him to be even more versatile. Lastly, buffing his Bthrow is the icing on the cake that'll allow him to kill far more efficiently.

true, i have a friend that always smash DIs out of jab. hopefully in february we can get at least one buff. i can already imagine how good shield cancel-able cannon ball could be.

list of buffs i personally would like to see:
jab -> finisher connect better (finisher can kill, so this would be interesting at the ledge)
backthrow buff (kills at around same as mario's/villager's)
upthrow -> upair true combo (bowser got one, his son should get one too!)
dair that has a spike like kirbys while maintaining its combo ability
f-smash/d-smash increased shield damage (fully charged should break)
d-throw increased damage/combo throw
general buffs around his grab game: comes out faster (right now its comparable to pacman and link but has nowhere near the same range), a better dash grab would be nice.
more cannonball buffs because why not

Dream buffs:
upthrow- upB hammer true kill combo
running movement changed to be like mewtwo or cloud so BJ can "dash dance" easier (they all float)
forward-throw angle changed to something like sonics/wario downthrow (would make for nice tech chases)
earlier autocancel frames for nair or less endlag
rework the knockback on dtilt (3 hits always connects, low knockback like luigi or diddy, possible tripping effect)
less endlag on deploying mechakoopa
make jab 1/2 cancel faster so you could connect it into a grab or somethin
up taunt has a hit box like luigi/greninja