Buff Sheik!

[MattVRox0525]

Buff Sheik! She’s honestly not great in this game, as her kill power and damage output are beyond abysmal—I get that she’s supposed to be a character who isn’t supposed to kill well or do much damage, as she relies on combos, but it’s honestly ridiculous how poor she is at killing. Seriously, her best kill move is probably her F or U-Smash. And those moves never kill past 100%. It’s stupid.

My first and most obvious suggestion would be increasing knockback growth on her moves—maybe Bouncing Fish or U-Air. This would increase her killing ability, while at the same time keep her low percent combos working. That would be great.

She’s not supposed to be great anymore, since she was good in SSB4 and they nerfed all of the top/high tiers from that game (well, maybe Ryu didn’t get crapped on too hard), but it’s just not good at all. What’s the point of being able to rack up damage but not even being able to kill?

 

[Cyn]

I am in agreement with any movement to make Sheik stronger/better.

 

[BBQPORK]

I know that if your opponent is at 0% and the first two hits of F-tilt don't combo into one another (not a true combo). So I definitely get that fix. I would like it if all her tilts combo into one another at low percentages like in smash 4, and I would also like UP-throw to be a kill throw. I think what they did to sheik in this game was dirty.

 

[MattVRox0525]

I know that if your opponent is at 0% and the first two hits of F-tilt don't combo into one another (not a true combo). So I definitely get that fix. I would like it if all her tilts combo into one another at low percentages like in smash 4, and I would also like UP-throw to be a kill throw. I think what they did to sheik in this game was dirty.

Honestly, U-Throw being a kill throw is stup-nah jk, IT’S GENIUS
Also, why did they nerf tilts like that?
Sheik didn’t have to get screwed so hard.
Lol

 

[BlueJaySSB]

I strongly agree. Sheik really is terrible. Which stinks, Sheik was one of my favorite characters to watch in Smash 4. She was hype! Now no one wants to play her cus she doesn't kill. Make Up Smash a little better, make bouncing fish better, improve the tilts. Also, give her a kill throw. I get nerfing top tiers from a previous title, but this was drastic.

 

[Aquamentii]

I'm not a fan of kill throws in general, so I'd hold off on that one myself. But I think she deserves a buff.
I find it hilarious that in a game where pretty much everybody's damage output per move was buffed across the board, some of Sheik's moves were outright nerfed in terms of damage. (Ftilt, Uptilt, Nair, Needles) and even more are relatively nerfed in that most of her income comes from short hopped aerials, which have that universal x0.85 damage nerf.
As far as kill power, I want the meta to develop more before I make any firm statements about that. I think Sheik's edgeguarding is fiercer than ever, and you don't need to rack up a lot of % to gimp characters.

I still want to see a buff to her damage output, and this is what I figured would be coolest: have Sheik's moves all around do more % when Needles are charged.
If you zoom in on Sheik, you'll see she holds needles she has charged in her left hand. When she has none charged, her hand is empty.
It makes more sense to me that a move like her forward air would hurt a lot more if she was dragging one of those needles across your face.
And I think that buff alone would give her what she needs. There are two ways to implement this:
-Have Needle multiplier only affect moves where sheik uses her hands. Unfortunately this means only Fair, Jab, and throws would get the buff. But this also justifies a larger damage multiplier, maybe as big as x2. A fairplane across the stage would go from doing 20-30% to 40-60%.
-Have Needle multiplier apply to ALL moves, but be only a slight boost. maybe x1.2 or 1.3 (I like this one a lot more)

In fact, because of the way Sheik holds her needles, I'm kind of surprised this isn't a mechanic already.
Personally I prefer a more chaotic game where everyone is busted, but I think a Needle multiplier is a very fair buff and would make Sheik much cooler.

 

[MattVRox0525]

I still want to see a buff to her damage output, and this is what I figured would be coolest: have Sheik's moves all around do more % when Needles are charged.
If you zoom in on Sheik, you'll see she holds needles she has charged in her left hand. When she has none charged, her hand is empty.
It makes more sense to me that a move like her forward air would hurt a lot more if she was dragging one of those needles across your face.
And I think that buff alone would give her what she needs. There are two ways to implement this:
-Have Needle multiplier only affect moves where sheik uses her hands. Unfortunately this means only Fair, Jab, and throws would get the buff. But this also justifies a larger damage multiplier, maybe as big as x2. A fairplane across the stage would go from doing 20-30% to 40-60%.
-Have Needle multiplier apply to ALL moves, but be only a slight boost. maybe x1.2 or 1.3 (I like this one a lot more)

You, my friend, are a literal GENIUS.
This would be an amazing mechanic for Sheik, not only improving her uniqueness, but her damage output.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

yeah sheik needs a buff

 

[Jaro235]

If they buff her just enough, I may pocket her. I find Sheik extremely fun to use, but I cannot use her in competitive battles because she simply has no kill power.

 

[Machii]

Sheik doesn't need buffs, you just need to lab.
Any buffs to her smash attacks would just lead to a sheik dominated meta, as she's already incredibly quick and responsive. Which isn't good for the rest if the 70 some characters.

Her smash attacks aren't great, and she doesn't rack up too much damage for what she can put out.
But.
She has what are essentially two attacks with smash strength that can be used while airborne. These are her dominant kill moves and her combos are used to put herself into advantage so as to threaten with these.

Sheik is really good, and really slept on.

 

[MyFaceIsEdible]

*Re-moved*

 

[TropicalTaco]

Sheik doesn't need buffs, you just need to lab.
Any buffs to her smash attacks would just lead to a sheik dominated meta, as she's already incredibly quick and responsive. Which isn't good for the rest if the 70 some characters.

Her smash attacks aren't great, and she doesn't rack up too much damage for what she can put out.
But.
She has what are essentially two attacks with smash strength that can be used while airborne. These are her dominant kill moves and her combos are used to put herself into advantage so as to threaten with these.

Sheik is really good, and really slept on.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

 

[Amon O]

Sheik doesn't need buffs, you just need to lab.
Any buffs to her smash attacks would just lead to a sheik dominated meta, as she's already incredibly quick and responsive. Which isn't good for the rest if the 70 some characters.

Her smash attacks aren't great, and she doesn't rack up too much damage for what she can put out.
But.
She has what are essentially two attacks with smash strength that can be used while airborne. These are her dominant kill moves and her combos are used to put herself into advantage so as to threaten with these.

Sheik is really good, and really slept on.

This completely. She is made to get in fast and jumble you around with her superior agility, and use her b moves to end you with, but it’s gotta be precise. Also her forward smash seems to work best when your super on top of your opponent, and her up smash is considerably powerful in its sweet spot.

Precision is key. Shiek is super underrated.

 

[MyFaceIsEdible]

Honestly, in my opinion, any buff feels like they would ruin her combo game.
Edit it looks like i was wrong...

 

[Vika]

its such a shame that they said everyone is here, but didn't bring back sheik from smash 4

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Good news everbody!

Sheik got buffs in the latest patch.

From the wiki:

• 
  The neutral infinite's finisher has less ending lag.
• 
  Down tilt's tipper hitbox is easier to land.
• 
  Forward aerial has more range.
• 
  Needle Storm can be charged faster.

So if nothing else, less dropped combos and needles are more useful.

 

[MyFaceIsEdible]

is it just me or does it feel that sheiks sweet spot on back air feels more powerful? It just might be me though.

 

[MattVRox0525]

Good news everbody!

Sheik got buffs in the latest patch.

From the wiki:

• 
  The neutral infinite's finisher has less ending lag.
• 
  Down tilt's tipper hitbox is easier to land.
• 
  Forward aerial has more range.
• 
  Needle Storm can be charged faster.

So if nothing else, less dropped combos and needles are more useful.

Noice.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Zelda and Sheik need to exchange some battle tips tbh.

Her Bair and smash attacks need more KB growth.

And ofc Zelda needs to have less garbage-ly-slow everything.

Tho ofc Sheik is still in a better place than ha counterpart. Oopsie.

 

[MattVRox0525]

Zelda and Sheik need to exchange some battle tips tbh.

Her Bair and smash attacks need more KB growth.

And ofc Zelda needs to have less garbage-ly-slow everything.

Tho ofc Sheik is still in a better place than ha counterpart. Oopsie.

No lie this kinda makes sense.

Sheik isn’t great and she’s STILL better than Zelda.

Just shows that Zelda’s one of those characters that is just designed to be bad, which really sucks since she’s so fun to play.

So is Sheik, don’t get me wrong.

 

[Aquamentii]

I mean at this point I don't even think it's her kill power that's the problem since she has setups (needles ->downB, ftilt->upair, dtilt->upsmash) but rather it's her damage output that brings her down.
I just think of King K Rool's Upthrow doing 20% and comparatively how much work it is for sheik to get 20%.
They could literally double the damage on ftilt and fair and it would make them normal moves.
With the changes last patch I'm kinda satisfied with her kill power. I just think her low damage output could still be addressed.

 

[Machii]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

It's actually meant to be read

 

[MattVRox0525]

I mean at this point I don't even think it's her kill power that's the problem since she has setups (needles ->downB, ftilt->upair, dtilt->upsmash) but rather it's her damage output that brings her down.
I just think of King K Rool's Upthrow doing 20% and comparatively how much work it is for sheik to get 20%.
They could literally double the damage on ftilt and fair and it would make them normal moves.
With the changes last patch I'm kinda satisfied with her kill power. I just think her low damage output could still be addressed.

These setups don’t work consistently for me ;-;
Except DTilt to UAir I never knew that existed

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Seeing as Sheik's attack options are supposed to have a low damage output, the best way to help her out is to improve the BKB and KBG values for her attacks.

 

[nshoes]

BKB and KBG values

The what?

 

[MattVRox0525]

The what?

BKB is base knockback, or how much it does at 0%.
KBG is knockback growth, or how much your knockback multiplier is based on enemy’s damage.

 

[nshoes]

BKB is base knockback, or how much it does at 0%.
KBG is knockback growth, or how much your knockback multiplier is based on enemy’s damage.

Cool! Got it. Wouldn't that ultimately nerf Sheik though? Part of the magic of low knockback is combos. Shouldn't just base damage be increased?

 

[Aquamentii]

Cool! Got it. Wouldn't that ultimately nerf Sheik though? Part of the magic of low knockback is combos. Shouldn't just base damage be increased?

I think that's the way to go, yeah.
But if the developers wanted something to alter a move's combo-ability, they can manipulate these two variables in a way that can be either helpful or harmful. Say they want to make Sheik's Fair a better combo move. They slightly buff BKB, so it sends further at lower %s, and slightly nerf KBG, so it sends less far as % gets higher. Thus it is more stable and reliable at all %s as a combo tool.
Also buffing damage usually means you have to nerf the knockback in some way so the final effect is the opponent is launched the same distance, so if any Sheik damage buffs were to come, expect knockback nerfs alongside them, though the move's knockback is not actually nerfed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

BKB is base knockback, or how much it does at 0%.

Actually, BKB is the amount of knockback a hitbox normally deals when base damage and KBG are not taken into account. It also ignores weight, but knockback multipliers and knockback resistance are still involved.

 

[Kowst]

These setups don’t work consistently for me ;-;
Except DTilt to UAir I never knew that existed

From what I understand as a new sheik player you have to tipper the Dtilt to lead into the Uair and if you drag them down with the Uair you can add to the combo. However take it with a grain of salt I'm a noob sheik main that fell in love with the idea of a character having amazing control of the enemy to lead into flashy kills rather than just getting in a few good hits end and ending their stock with a smash attack. The latter never felt all that rewarding to me but sheik kills make me feel like I'm a boss out their flexing. Sadly I'm sucking with her more than I'm flexing but I always end up picking up characters that take a long time to learn that feel good when you got them down, so I'm prepared for the journey

 

[nshoes]

From what I understand as a new sheik player you have to tipper the Dtilt to lead into the Uair and if you drag them down with the Uair you can add to the combo. However take it with a grain of salt I'm a noob sheik main that fell in love with the idea of a character having amazing control of the enemy to lead into flashy kills rather than just getting in a few good hits end and ending their stock with a smash attack. The latter never felt all that rewarding to me but sheik kills make me feel like I'm a boss out their flexing. Sadly I'm sucking with her more than I'm flexing but I always end up picking up characters that take a long time to learn that feel good when you got them down, so I'm prepared for the journey

The journey is 100% worth it! Keep at it.

 

[MattVRox0525]

Let’s go boys! The new patch recently came out and Sheik got the.... Down Air change?
Rip little mac.

 

[MattVRox0525]

Damn... this thread is dead ;-;

 

[TropicalTaco]

As is the character, sadly.

 

[Ukulele]

Some of the top players have been saying some interesting things about her lately, especially Void who is using her quite a bit in tournament in fact. What do you all think?

https://twitter.com/mr_rsmash/status/1181616520591548418?s=21

Here is an interesting tweet about her potential use as a CP.

 

[MattVRox0525]

Some of the top players have been saying some interesting things about her lately, especially Void who is using her quite a bit in tournament in fact. What do you all think?

https://twitter.com/mr_rsmash/status/1181616520591548418?s=21

Here is an interesting tweet about her potential use as a CP.

Sheik? Good matchups?
All jokes aside, Sheik could be used as a counterpick, but I dunno if being a counterpick makes you good and viable. Bowser and DK in Sm4sh, for example, were good counterpick characters, but weren’t solo viable as they were. Not saying Sheik NEEDS to be exclusively solo viable, just that even alone Sheik could use something to make it a little easier to play her, solo main or not.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

Sheik doesn't need buffs, you just need to lab.
Any buffs to her smash attacks would just lead to a sheik dominated meta, as she's already incredibly quick and responsive. Which isn't good for the rest if the 70 some characters.

Her smash attacks aren't great, and she doesn't rack up too much damage for what she can put out.
But.
She has what are essentially two attacks with smash strength that can be used while airborne. These are her dominant kill moves and her combos are used to put herself into advantage so as to threaten with these.

Sheik is really good, and really slept on.

your everything is wrong