Breaking Mario: How to OoS without releasing shield (Tap Jump Off)

[Omari]

Breaking: Do you wish to improve your punishing skill due to slow reaction time?

Thread Intention(s):
1. Improve control scheme (controller setups)
2. Improve overall control (control stick)
3. Improve overall button control (slide technique)
4. Improve reaction time (punishing game)
5. Improve not only as Mario mains, but as smashers

Color Key:
Blue (Tips)
Red (Warnings)
Yellow (Notes)

Warning: Before you read any further, it's imperative to learn the author's control scheme before practicing new skill(s) as it will help readers establish a firm grasp of the concept IMO.

Omari's current Control Scheme (constantly changing):
1. R (Attack)>Changed for BDCAUS
2. Z (Special)>Changed for improved button input
3. Y (Grab)>Changed for Buffer (boost) Grabbing
4. Tap Jump (Off)>Changed for personal preference

Note: The remaining buttons are default. I'll explain why my control scheme is changed at the end of this thread.

Note: This thread isn't a guide, it's an active support thread with the sole purpose to improve Mario's punishing game & yours as smashers. Feel free to comment, be creative & critique.

Let's begin by establishing what Out of Shield (OoS) option(s) we can perform while shielding. How can we effectively use these options while shielding?

While shielding, we're able to:
1. Grab
2. Jump
3. Roll (left or right)
4. Spot dodge

We have four options without releasing shield, correct? Now let's take it a step further by determining how to effectively use these options. What can these options counter (punish)?

Countering (punishing) within shield:
1. Grab>Shield Pressure (opponent(s) rushing into your shield) AKA shield grab
2. Jump>Airborne (ANTi-air), Bait (conditioning) & standing (ANTi-ground) opponent(s)
3. Roll (left or right)>Prevent ledge pressure traps (safe while opponent(s) are approaching airborne)
4. Spot dodge>Prevent getting grabbed (safe while opponent(s) are close (grab distance) to you)

Options 1, 3 & 4 are static meaning they remain the same (aren't dynamic). Option 2 however is dynamic meaning it has multiple uses. How is jump an effective Out of Shield (OoS) option without releasing shield?

Tip: Jumping cancels dashing, pivoting & shielding. Your two options are to remain grounded (ironic) or go airborne when jumping.

Jumping can increase our options even though we're limited when dashing, pivoting or shielding. What are our options when jumping without releasing shield?

Jumping Out of Shield (OoS) options without releasing shield:
1. Air dodge>Better positioning (potential setup)
2. Air (any)>Punish (potentially kill)
3. Empty Jump>Mind game (fake-out)
4. Special (any)>Punish (potentially kill)
5. Up Smash (u-smash)>Bait, counter (punish) & kill (depending on your opponent(s)' character weight)

Notice that the even options (2 & 4) branch out even more because they can be used in any direction. How can we effectively use airs & specials without releasing shield by jumping?

Tip: We can effectively use airs & specials (depending on your control scheme) without releasing shield by using the Slide Technique (Purpose: buffering airs). While shielding, slide your thumb bone from X (jump) to A (attack) to Neutral Air (n-air) or to Neutral Special (n-s) OoS. In order to directional air or directional special OoS while shielding, slide your thumb bone from X (jump), immediately flick (& hold) your control stick in the direction you'd like to go & slide your thumb bone to A (attack).

Note: When Up Airing (u-air) or Down Airing (d-air) OoS while shielding, it's imperative that you tilt slightly.

Reasons why:
1. Up Air (u-air)>If you hold your control stick more than halfway upward, you'll Up Smash (u-smash) instead of u-airing OoS.
2. Down Air (d-air)>If you hold your control stick more halfway downward (during the tilting motion), you'll spot dodge instead of d-airing OoS.

How can we tell what situation(s) when to use an effective air or special now that we know how to use the Slide Technique & how to OoS without releasing shield?

Mario's OoS game, useful options & uses:
1. Up Special (u-s) AKA Super Jump Punch (SJP)>effective (safe) against Dash Attacks (DA), jabs (any), tilts (any), poorly spaced ground approaches, poorly spaced air approaches & opponent(s) who like to air camp (characters with more than one mid air jump)
2. Up Smash (u-smash)> effective (safe) against Dash Attacks (DA), jabs (any) & poorly spaced air approaches (mainly for baiting or kill setups)
3. Neutral Air (n-air)> effective (safe) poorly spaced ground approaches & against aggro opponent(s) (momentum stopper)
4. Up Air (u-air)> effective (safe) against poorly spaced air approaches & opponent(s) who like to air camp (characters with more than one mid air jump)
5. Back Air (b-air)> effective (safe) against greatly spaced ground approaches (<3), jabs (any), tilts (any) & even smashes (?)
6. Down Air (d-air)> effective (safe) against combo bags (heavy characters or character that get hit by all hits of d-air), poorly spaced ground & air approaches (keep in mind that short hop d-airs (without mid air jumping) will be your long term reward due to better positioning)

Tip: OoS without releasing shield is most effective immediately after your opponent(s) attacks your shield. U-special>practice tapping X (jump) then immediately Z (special) to ensure yourself three frames of invincibility whenever hit. U-smash>practice flicking your control stick up while using the Slide Technique to buffer your u-smashes (which is a reliable kill option IMO). N-air>practice safe n-airing (retreating your n-airs if short hopped) as they are your sex kicks! U-air>practice maneuvering (walking, running & pivoting) around stages while lightly tilting upward on your control stick to ensure u-airing (short hop or full hop; be creative) instead of u-smashing. B-air>practice following up after your rising b-airs (mainly fast falling at the apex) to ensure full punishment. D-air>practice short hopping d-air & fast falling the last hit (apex) to auto-cancel.

Note: Front Air (f-air) isn't an effective OoS option not because it's a meteor smash (spike), but due to slow frames. IMO, f-air isn't the most effective air but it does have multiple uses (meteor smash (spike), safe retreating option (if opponent shields), better positioning (to knock your opponent(s) airborne)& jab-lock setup (potential kills)) to be exact.

Warning: Do not limit yourself to these six OoS options without releasing your shield. Granted that you cannot jab, tilt (mainly Up Tilt (u-tilt) & Front Tilt (f-tilt)) & smash (Front Smash (mainly Down Smash (d-smash)) OoS without releasing your shield (Don't forget that Mario's meta-game (all characters) is always evolving due to us smashers' dedication). Don't limit yourself by thinking they aren't useful counters (punishes) because jab hits on frame 2, tilts (excluding d-tilt even though it hits on frame 5 as well) & Down Smash (d-smash) both hit on frame 5. Anyone who discovers how to simplify these options, make them effective for high level game-play & post their suggestion(s) will be greatly appreciated.

Note: I'll do my to keep this thread active for any questions, concerns & suggestions. Thanks for your time Mario Boards!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Uh a few things.

Jumping with Y is technically superior to jumping with X. You only need to change X to specials if you jump with Y to perfectly buffer specials out of jump consistently without clawing. I guess you could do the same jumping with X sorta and setting a completely different button to specials, except then it's forcing you to learn two different input techniques to do aerials as opposed to specials. Anything that's simpler is better for execution, and jumping with Y is fundamentally simpler given its location relative to the A and X button.

The REAL reason to change a shoulder button input to attack is for doing the pivot walk without clawing.

D-air out of shield does not require a light control stick input. You simply need to time hitting down after inputting the jump. U-airing out of shield however DOES require the light input due to how the game reads a full upwards tilt + jump as synonymous with Up-smash.

That being said I also find it simpler to U-smash out of shield on command with Tap Jump. Same story with Up-B out of shield. You simply need to add an extra jump input to U-smash or Up-B out of shield without Tap Jump.

 

[Omari]

@A2ZOMG: Thanks for explaining yourself & I'll ask you more question(s) about why Y is superior to X (regarding jump) after *Pound* V (I don't want to start getting used to another control scheme before a tournament, you know?).

Forgot to add pivot walking in there (thanks for reminding me) but I didn't see a real use for it other than being flashy (which isn't really necessary).

You're correct about d-air OoS not requiring a light input, my point was to ensure the d-air (by lightly tilting down) OoS & Thanks (editing soon).

The only reason I prefer not having tap jump on (regarding OoS without releasing shield) is to prevent doing an action that wasn't intended (whiffing). Example: If someone air approaches you (but retreats to ensure safety) & you jump OoS to punish? Then you'd have put yourself in a bad (probably worse depending on the MU) position. Personally, I prefer a manual setup for brawl.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pivot walking isn't entirely flashy. Yes it's hard to implement practically, but it's actually got uses. Pivot walking enables you to do backwards facing sliding shields with forward momentum. You can also pivot walk as an alternative method for setting up reverse F-smashes.

 

[fromundaman]

With Y as jump you really shouldn't have trouble doing Usmash OoS with tap jump off IMO. You can pretty much hit Y and A in a single easy motion and hit up as you do it.

I have R as attack for other generic things as well, like BDACUSes and Charging C-stick smashes. Pivot walk is a use, but IMO not the only notable one. I personally think R for attack just simplifies things, but that's just me.

 

[Omari]

Brings me better understanding when I ask my fellow smashers questions about their control schemes. I've noticed that many off them use Y to jump although I haven't figured out why exactly.

My Reason(s) for using X as jump:
1. Able to control three buttons (B, A & X) with only my thumb bone (increased button input time).
2. IMO, not only to perform the Slide Technique but my airs are buffered much more fluidly. (A2ZOMG explained this well in the Mr. Game & Watch (G&W) thread. Listen to the beeps when you're on the ledge; There's a difference between a G&W's mid air jump beep & his Front Air (f-air) beep.
3. My Z button acts as special so it's simpler to buffer fire balls (& auto-cancel). If you buffer a full hopped fire ball, it'd be better to watch (Don't throw another one unless you're planning to hop while jumping onto a platform) & react (anything airborne) than to throw another one after the apex (due to fire ball landing lag).

The R trigger being set to attack uses:
1. C-Stick Charging (effective for hyphen smashes)
2. BDACUS, DACUS & PUS (Pivot Up Smash) tapping & holding (charging2punish)
3. Pivot walking (especially with DK=superior mind games)

 

[A2ZOMG]

I buffer aerials like this. This is why Y is preferable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyZUlALAArc

You can do the EXACT same motion to buffer specials, if you set X to specials and use Y to jump. You need different input motions if you jump with X to buffer aerials and specials respectively. Jumping with Y requires you to fundamentally learn fewer input motions than jumping with X.

Z as grab can also be used to charge C stick Smashes keep in mind. Setting R to attack is completely unnecessary for that purpose, and thus really only serves to help pivot walking.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Or we could all play like Xero and not alter your controls at all.

 

[Omari]

@A2ZOMG: IYO, Y is preferable & simpler (I'll look into testing even more different control schemes after *Pound* V). I'd appreciate if you explained which input motions would be different (& how using X is more difficult than Y?). Tapping or holding an attack button is by far better than a grab button IMO (more difficult to BDACUS with grab than it is with attack). May you enlighten me about the R trigger's uses (reaction time included) & thanks.

@XeroXen: We could, but we aren't because point is to make the button input simpler (not remain default). Thanks.

 

[Coolwhip]

I like what i've read so far. Good job omari, keep it up.

 

[Omari]

@Coolwhip: Thanks for your support, feel free to correct/add (contribute) anything beneficial to true Mario mains &/or towards my our thread.

 

[fromundaman]

< Feels excluded for not being a TRUE Mario main...


That being said, which control scheme is best is really dependent on which produces the best results for you. Y being theoretically better may be true (And for me it definitely is), but if you play better with X jump, then the result is all that matters.

And A2, the reason for my using R to charge smashes over Z is because my finger rests on R anyway, and I don't use that button for much other than these situational commands. Using Z to charge smashes would make me do an extra motion, not to mention it just kinda feels weird to me.

 

[Omari]

@Fromundaman: My fault about the misunderstanding (wrong terminology used). It's just that Mario mains tend to switch characters (mains) after they realize that he isn't a "good" character regarding Super Smash Bros. Brawl (nothing towards you or anyone else who's willing to take Mario serious enough). Thanks for your input (appreciate it).

 

[fromundaman]

Haha no worries, I was just kidding.

I've been switching down the list since I started (Started with MK). Pretty much the only way for me to go any lower is to take Ganon from a 4th to a main XD

To be fair though, I don't use Mario much in tournament (only 3-4 MUs and in/against low tiers), so yeah...

 

[steep]

I use R for jump for my OoS options. Up-b OoS is really easy for me because I just press up on the control stick, R, and B all at the same time and there we go! All OoS options that were mentioned in the OP can be used efficiently with R set to jump. Just offering an alternative for those who might find this setup easier. Keep up the good work Omari!

 

[Flameleon]

-Using Oos options is vital, that´s the only way to have an advantage over certain chars...-

 

[Omari]

@Fromundaman: You're definitely chill in' my book(get it?), play whichever character you enjoy (have unconditional fun playing) & don't feel a certain way (get discouraged) when people trash talk your character. Chances are that they're doing it liven the mood (not making it so tense).

@Steep: The only reason don't set jump to the left &/or right triggers is because my reaction time (regarding jumping) would be slower overall. I appreciate your input, I'll definitely give your setup a go after I recover from #5 bro & thanks about our thread!

@Flameleon: Agreed regarding OoS options being vital, may you explain OoS options being (the only way to advantage over certain characters) & how good choices for different scenarios? Thanks.

 

[boss8]

Omari to goodz.......

how u feelin from pound?

 

[Omari]

@Boss: After *Pound* V I felt much better (chest stopped hurting due to coughing), I was focused on not becoming sick & thanks for asking! No sandbagging out of pools next time because you're far better than that bruh.

@Mario Boards: I've tested Y as jump, it feels somewhat similar (if not, simpler) & weird only because my Z button is set to special. Everything else feels natural, I'll keep experimenting & feel free to post suggestions regarding control schemes/OoS options versus any move (safe/guaranteed hits).

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I use A to jump. Just saying. Let the rest of my control scheme remain a mystery.

 

[boss8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg_bgUOnFdI

he has string but no defense

womp womp

 

[A2ZOMG]

^That Mario is pretty interesting and he uses most of Mario's tools pretty well, but yeah. Like he should just shield more.

 

[HeroMystic]

He kept running into ****, but that's perhaps the first time I've seen a Mario muscle his way through a match and win.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

LOL, hes so reckless, but its cool to watch

 

[A2ZOMG]

He kept running into ****, but that's perhaps the first time I've seen a Mario muscle his way through a match and win.

Aside from jumping into the ****, I do think that this is a good match to take notes from and a pretty good demonstration of how Mario can win this matchup. Letting her get control isn't wise because if you let her space, she does it more safely. Dominating her offensively is pretty effective, especially since she's extremely floaty, not too light, and a little lacking in combo breakers and thus easy for Mario to combo.

Though Up-B oos here and there is also awesome. Speaking of which, Xero would be proud of this guy's use of Up-B.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

seems to make sense Most European (assuming so if this isn't the origin of the player this post sucks lol) matches(or atleast the ones I've seen) are very aggressive and only last like 2-3 minutes most of the time...

 

[boss8]

i think if he was more defensive....and new how to bait...he would ****....

 

[fromundaman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg_bgUOnFdI

he has string but no defense

womp womp

2:03 shows that Europeans have perfected the ability to make their opponents trip on command for some sexy trip follow-ups!

Though Up-B oos here and there is also awesome. Speaking of which, Xero would be proud of this guy's use of Up-B.

No kidding. Some great UpBs and Fairs there.

i think if he was more defensive....and new how to bait...he would ****....

Psh... Who has time to shield nowadays? It's all about that flashy rush-down ****.

 

[Omari]

Regarding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg_bgUOnFdI: Kudemo's Mario (especially when taken into account how experienced Zudenka has proved himself to be consecutively) is amazingly aggressive (probably overly) when it comes to being offensive. Defensive wise he's pretty good (due to parts where you gave yourself freedom; Let analyze several parts in this video such as 0:18-nonchalant d-air approach (mistakes happen), 0:15-same scenario & 2:20-again with ineffective use of Mario's Yahoos! This lead me to believe that he doesn't quite have a good concept of how to space d-air.) but can be better IMO. Its difficult enough to accept the fact that Mario mains aren't being trolled when comes to using Front Air (f-air) & Super Jump Punch (SJP). To see Mario mains hitting these two moves makes trolling that much more fun (& funny).

 

[Omari]

Bump! Seriously though, I believe we all can further improve our punishing game.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

I'm just going to play with tapjump on from now on, it isn't really that bad.

 

[Omari]

Honestly, I don't mind default settings although it requires you not to tilt up while airborne (preventing DJ whiffing).

My current NGCC (Nintendo Game Cube Controller) setup:
1. R=attack
2. Y=special
3. TJ=off

*Remaining controls are default.*

 

[- Theelitebrawler -]

Ive always played with Tap Jump on like a boss...

No seriously though its awesome I can Up B OoS easily with it on.

 

[Omari]

Jabbing (forcing RCO lag for impossible setups mainly)/Smashing (other than u-smash)/Tilting (especially)/pivot (about face grabbing or w/e you wanna call it) grabbing is very useful guys. I'm actually gonna talk in detail about buffering tilts/in general (if you all want me too) eventually in my Execution thread.

Edit (update): Let's talk about controller vibration. After recent tournaments, I found that I like vibration off (I feel more in control/alive ironically) during game-play. I'm not truly sure "why" I like this setting but eventually I'll figure it out.

Yes, I know one time I explained that vibration can actually help your game-play (especially with spacing, f-tilt for example as light vibration=correct spacing/heavy vibration= incorrect spacing ). How do you guys feel?

Did you all know setting vibration off on a tag name overrides the actual controller setting? Cool eh? Learn that from ma dude John#s..