Brawl Revival Tournament Edition modification

[clydeaker]

I will refer to this modification project by the name Brawl Revival Tournament Edition, however this will most likely change in the future.

Brawl Revival Tournament Edition is a mod that improves Brawl's tournament viability without taking away from the core of Competitive Brawl.

Brawl Revival Tournament Edition has two primary goals:
1. Increase Brawl's tournament viability.
2. Increase competitive training tools.

What Brawl Revival Tournament Edition does NOT do:
- Character changes.
- Remove or replace files from Brawl.

Brawl Revival TE statement (based off of Balanced Brawls)
"The foundation of this project is that Brawl is already a fun game. We deliberately avoid changing any core elements that make Brawl what it is. Brawl Revival has the exact same physics as standard Brawl, and elements such as animation speed, hit-box size, or general character play style are never changed in any way.

Brawl Revival is based around the Official Smashboards Brawl Ruleset along with a few other commonly used rule sets in order to get the best tournament viability for Brawl. As such I will go through each and every rule and explain the changes made to accompany these rule here:

Spoiler

Rules are in red.
Changes are in green.
Not applicable is in yellow.

• Random tripping is removed.
  • Random tripping on/off toggle in tournament setting.
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvmluRCGv_s.

Smashboards Brawl ruleset:

• Game Settings: 3 Stocks, 8 Minute Time Limit. Best of 3 Games. Finals are Best of 5.
  • Game settings set on boot: 3 stock, 8 minutes, Team Attack on. (20XX TE, 20XX Hack Pack, Project M)

• Items are disabled.
  • Items are automatically set to None in game settings. (20XX TE, 20XX Hack Pack, Project M)

• Meta Knight’s infinite dimensional cape tactic is banned.
  • Keep in mind fixing this in any way goes against Brawl Revivals ideology of no character changes, however this will be the only exception due to how large of an issue this is.
    
  • Add a tournament setting on/off toggle. if on one of the following options will be used:
    • Option 1: If Meta Knight uses his Down-B move more than 35 times in a match they won't be able use Down-B for the rest of the match.
    • Option 2: Prevent Meta Knight from using his Down-B consecutively without initiating another move in between.
    • Option 3: Add additional lag to Meta Knight's Down-B making the infinite dimensional cape tactic impossible.
  • If off it is up to the tournament organizer discretion to enforce this rule if in place.

• All other chain grabs and infinites are legal.
  • No other character changes. (20XX TE)

• There is a 35 Ledge Grab Limit for all characters. If a game goes to time and one player is over the Ledge Grab Limit, they automatically lose the game. If both players exceed their Ledge Grab Limit, then this rule is ignored.
  • Ledge Grab setting toggle: if on After 35 ledge grabs the game automatically forces the player to get up from a ledge. (Balanced Brawl)

• The act of stalling is banned and constitutes intentionally making the game unplayable. Examples include becoming invisible, continuing infinites, chain grabs, or uninterrupted moves past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you.
  • Ledge Grab setting toggle: After 35 ledge grabs the game automatically forces the player to get up from a ledge. (Balanced Brawl)
    
  • If a player inflicts over 600% damage to another player during a singles stock they automatically lose the game on the results screen.

• Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.
  
  
• Pause option is disabled in the game menu. If left on, accidental pausing mid match forfeits a stock.
  • Replace pause on/off with hold/off or on/hold. This requires you to hold the pause button for about two seconds before the game pauses. (Project M, 20XX TE)
• You may not choose the last stage you have won on during a set, unless agreed by both players.
  • Stage Striking. (Project M, 20XX TE).
• If time runs outs and ledge grabs do not determine a winner, the tie is determined by most stocks, and then if still tied, by percentage.
  • Ledge Grab setting toggle: After 35 ledge grabs the game automatically forces the player to get up from a ledge. (Balanced Brawl)
    
  • Ledge grabs, stock #, and last stocks percent are clearly displayed on the final results screen for each character.
• If the match ends with both players dying at the same time coincidentally, or if time ran out with both players at equal percent, a one stock three minute rematch will be played on the same stage. For this tie-breaker match, a Ledge Grab Limit of 15 is used for all characters.
  • Sudden death/rematch mode tournament settings toggle: rematch mode is where sudden death mode is replaced by a 1 stock, 3 minute rematch game to determine a winner.
  • If still no winner is decided it is up to the tournament organizer discretion to decide what happens.

• If a match is ended via suicide move, the initiator of the move wins.
  • It is up to the Tournament Organizer to enforce this rule.
  • Sudden death on/off settings toggle: if off sudden death mode is replaced by a 1 stock, 3 minute time limit rematch game mode to determine a winner.

• Coaching is not allowed during a match.
  • Not applicable.

Doubles Rules:

• Team Attack enabled.
  • Game settings set on boot: 3 stock, 8 minutes, Team Attack on.

• Sharing stocks is allowed.
  • No change is necessary.

• If time runs out and a player is over the ledge grab limit, that team loses if no one on the opposite team is over the limit.
  • Ledge Grab setting toggle: After 35 ledge grabs the game automatically forces the player to get up from a ledge. (Balanced Brawl)

• If time runs out and ledge grabs do not determine a winner, the match is decided by the team with most stocks, and if still tied, by the team with lower total percent.
  • Ledge Grab setting toggle: After 35 ledge grabs the game automatically forces the player to get up from a ledge. (Balanced Brawl)

• If a player is using Pokemon Trainer, Lucario or Sonic, either team may request team colors to be changed to make it easier to tell the difference.
  • Enhance the following alternate costumes colors:
    • Pokémon Trainer - enhance coloring to better represent their teams color.
    • Lucario (red) - slightly more red-purple fur than purple.
    • Lucario (green) - slightly more green fur than blue-green.
    • Sonic (red) - slightly more red-purple than purple-blue.
    • Sonic (green) - slightly more green than green-blue.
    Add the following alternate costumes giving each character a minimum of 5 alternate costumes (most characters have 6)
    • Pikachu - Blue Wizard hat from N64, Melee, and 3DS/WiiU.

Stage List:

• Neutral Stages:
  • Battlefield
  • Final Destination
  • Lylat Cruise
  • Smashville
  • Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

• 
  
• Counter Pick Stages:
  • 
    
  • Battleship Halberd
  • Pokemon Stadium 1
  • Castle Siege
• Easily toggle legal stages on stage select based off of the stages on in the random stage settings. (Project M, 20XX TE)
• It is up to the Tournament Organizer to change the stage list in the random stage settings if their stage list does not match the list above.

Other Non Smashboards rules:

• Meta Knight is banned.
  • It is up to the tournament organizer to enforce this rule.

• Ice Climbers are banned.
  • It is up to the tournament organizer to enforce this rule.
    
  • Select Solo Popo by holding down R when selecting Ice Climbers. Popo will spawn without Nana. Nothing else will be affected. (20XX Hack Pack)

• Mid/ Low tier events:
  • Select Solo Popo (A.K.A. Sopo) by holding R when selecting Ice Climbers. Popo will spawn without Nana. Nothing else will be affected. (20XX Hack Pack)
  • Select Olimar without pikmin (A.K.A. Nolimar) by holding R when selecting Olimar. Please note that Olimar will spawn without pikmin and his Neutral Special will be. Everything else will be unaffected.

General Changes:

• All characters, stages, and trophies unlocked.
• Game settings set on boot: 3 stock, 8 minutes, Team Attack on.
• Items are automatically set to None.
  
• Title screen demo and intro video disabled.
• Special messages disabled.
• Unrestricted pause camera.
• Start VS matches with only 1 player.
• Handicap is now used to control players' individual stock counts.
• Pressing Start on match results screen doesn't undo your ready state (re-mapped to B).
• Press D-pad up/down on character select screen to toggle rumble on/off.
• Stage Striking - press X on Stage Select to strike stages.

Tournament Features:

• Tournament Mode switch disables all intrusive aesthetic/mechanic non-tournament changes.
  
• Frozen Mode toggle on/off.
  
• Pausing requires holding Start on/off.
  
• Random Tripping toggle on/off.
• Remove Meta Knight's Infinite Dimensional Cape on/off.
  
• Ledge Grab Limit toggle on/off: After 35 ledge grabs the game automatically forces the player to get up from a ledge.
• Quick rematch toggle on/off. Replace Sudden Death with a 1 stock 3 minuet match to quickly determine the winner if time runs out.
  
• Toggle double teams color enhh on/off. Enhance the red, blue, and green alternate colors of Sonic, Lucario, and Pokemon trainer to better represent their team.
• Lock settings to prevent tampering during tournaments.

Non-Tournament Features:

• Skip Results Screen on/off.
• Hold A+B for salty runback on/off.
• Disable Star KO to speed up matches on/off.
• Toggle Infinite Shields on/off.
• Toggle Fixed Camera on/off.
• Toggle Collision Bubbles on/off.
• Smashville time of day off/day/evening/night.
  
• Toggle Subspace Emissary character physics on/off.
  
• Toggle non-playable characters:
  • Select Solo Popo (A.K.A. Sopo) by holding R when selecting Ice Climbers.
  • Select Olimar without pikmin (A.K.A. Nolimar) by holding R when selecting Olimar.
  • Select Giga Bowser by holding R when selecting Bowser.
  • Select Wario Man by holding R when selecting Wario.
  • Select Red Alloy by holding R when selecting Captain Falcon.
  • Select Blue Alloy by holding R when selecting Zelda/Shiek.
  • Select Green Alloy by holding R when selecting Kirby.
  • Select Yellow Alloy by holding R when selecting Mario.

Brawl: Tournament Edition was inspired by (in decreasing order):

• Super Smash Bros. Brawl (vanilla)
  • http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/.
• Super Smash Bros. Melee: 20XX Tournament Edition
  • http://www.20xx.me/.
• Super Smash Bros. Melee: 20XX Melee Training Hack Pack
  • http://smashboards.com/threads/the-20xx-melee-training-hack-pack-3-02-update-4-0-beta03.351221/.
• Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Balanced Brawl
  • http://balancedbrawl.net/.
• Super Smash Bros. Project M
  • http://projectmgame.com/.

 

[Deleted member]

Ultimately, I don't really think that it's possible to have a viable Brawl without changing things up. Even if MKnight's stopped using infinite cape (which they don't really have to use), or if tripping was gone, he's still going to tear through the competition. We'll still have the exact same problem simply due to the proven fact that Brawl isn't really a competitive game (having tournaments doesn't make it competitive. Even Mario Party can have tournaments). Even if the game doesn't get flat-out overhauled, keeping it as a 1:1 copy of the original, with a code here, and a ban there just won't cut it. Sure, it'll make the matches look cleaner and more professional, but it won't actually fix the problem; remember, money's on the line for tournament players, they don't really care about how professional the new ruleset looks, they care about if they'll have a chance to win (in particular against MK).

I am working on a mod (as you already know) that combines the best elements from each game, while adding new ones
(Smash Reborn), and upon deep analyzation, I came to the conclusion that this mod very well could be the closest that we could get to making an improved Brawl. However, SR isn't made with Brawl in mind, nor is it trying to be like it, which means that it wouldn't seem too inconceivable for me to consider working on a "Brawl Rebalanced" mod.

From: My thoughts
To: Your thread

- Mario Smith

 

[Tocaraca2]

I like this idea much more than Mario Smith's, however you should nerf/buff some characters, just for balance.

 

[Tsunayoshi]

yooo this is ****ing awesome

 

[Deleted member]

I like this idea much more than Mario Smith's, however you should nerf/buff some characters, just for balance.

Well, even if you don't agree with me, my comment appears to have revived this thread. Remember, as Brawl fans, it doesn't hurt for us to debate.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Well, even if you don't agree with me, my comment appears to have revived this thread. Remember, as Brawl fans, it doesn't hurt for us to debate.

Debates are great things, yes, I agree.
What do you think are Brawl's problems?
I think that tripping is the worst problem. The next thing is hitstun cancelling. I don't understand why it exists, and it almost completely destroys any combo potential, despite the fact that Falco can combo 9999999999999 Down Throws into each other.
Chain Grabbing is the next problem. I dislike what Sm4sh did to it (they completely removed it). What I would do is not completely remove it, but limit it, like what Sm4sh did to Jab Locking. Basically, you would only be able to grab someone 3 times in a row, then you would experience a 1 second cooldown like what we see in Sm4sh. This would fix Ice Climbers.
Next, Meta Knight. Sm4sh made the right choices with him, except for some reason they nerfed his damage output massively. I would change that back. Otherwise, he's all good.
The last thing is planking. My idea would be to add Ledge Trumping, but also keep Ledge Hogging.
How?
Well, it's simple. You cannot be ledge-trumped while you are in ledge invincibility. There we go, problem solved, Ledge Hogging is still present but planking is gone. Yay.
If only this were to be added...

 

[Deleted member]

Here are my problems
No hitstun (this is debatable, but 16 or so frames isn't really hitstun)
Tripping
Overtly-Floaty characters
Slow Gameplay (even if it doesn't get to Melee-level, at least faster than Smash 4)
Overtly-Defensive Gameplay.

Again, these are just my opinions, feel free to disagree, but there's no need to rage over it.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Here are my problems
No hitstun (this is debatable, but 16 or so frames isn't really hitstun)
Tripping
Overtly-Floaty characters
Slow Gameplay (even if it doesn't get to Melee-level, at least faster than Smash 4)
Overtly-Defensive Gameplay.

Again, these are just my opinions, feel free to disagree, but there's no need to rage over it.

Can you please xplain to me 'overly-defensive gameplay'? I know that Brawl air-dodging contributes to that but what else?
And I do get annoyed by over-floaty characters. It's really hard to get back to the ground after being launched upwards.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, here's my definition of it:
1. Nearly lagless rolls
2. Brairdodges
3. Lack of hitstun
4. Slow moves with weird properties that prevent combos even if hitstun existed.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Rolls are still a problem in Sm4sh, unfortunately
What the hell is a brairdodge?
Lack of hitstun... yeah that's true.
Most moves are slow, but some are fast enough to combo, such as Link's Hookshot and Kirby's Forward Throw.

 

[Sensane]

Why not just mod Brawl into a more balanced version of the game with actual hitstun and no tripping? Also I say remove momentum canceling or at least nerf it (but get rid of bucket breaking). Granted there's balanced brawl, but I don't think that game affected the game's mechanics very much.

 

[Omar_25]

Why not just mod Brawl into a more balanced version of the game with actual hitstun and no tripping? Also I say remove momentum canceling or at least nerf it (but get rid of bucket breaking). Granted there's balanced brawl, but I don't think that game affected the game's mechanics very much.

Because Brawl is fine the way it is?

 

[Sensane]

Because Brawl is fine the way it is?

That's debatable. M2K said likes the game, but he hates some of the mechanics in Brawl and the Ice Climbers and how they "ruin the game" for him (says the MK main). So I like Brawl just as much as I like the other Smash games, competitively and casually, but I can't deny its flaws and how there are mods that need to fix the problems.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Hitstun Cancelling makes Brawl what it is. It makes it so you need to be creative and skilful to pull off true combos, and you have to think of things on the spot. Removing Hitstun Cancelling would turn Brawl into a slower Smash-4, which we do not want.

 

[Sensane]

Hitstun Cancelling makes Brawl what it is. It makes it so you need to be creative and skilful to pull off true combos, and you have to think of things on the spot. Removing Hitstun Cancelling would turn Brawl into a slower Smash-4, which we do not want.

That's fair I guess, but I would at least like bucket breaking removed.

 

[Tocaraca2]

That's fair I guess, but I would at least like bucket breaking removed.

What is bucket breaking?

 

[Sensane]

What is bucket breaking?

When Mr. Game and Watch cancels all of his momentum with down b. This makes G&W survive with momentum canceling three times better than normal.

 

[Respect38]

This mod will be legit. I really hope it gets some attention within the Brawl community.

Will it be possible to make it possible to manually set what value the ledge grab limit is, instead of hardcoding it at 35?

 

[Tocaraca2]

Planking is an issue with Brawl.
The best way to stop this would be to change the ledge mechanics to the Sm4sh ones, however make it so you cannot be trumped if you have ledge invincibility. This would remove planking but would keep Ledge Hogging, and Ledge Trumping would be a punish to someone hanging on the ledge for too long.

 

[The Brazilian Afro]

Tocaraca have an idea near mine. I'd gp for not being able to sweetspot if there's someone on the edge rather than only invincibility, as there are ways to keep it indefinitely (you would still trump in free fall)... Actually happy that Brawl is receiving some love again.
About Planking.... Yeah, it sucks a lot that some characters can stall indefinitely, but that was never a problem in other games of the franchise, it's a bit more on the players to choos to do so. (Pikachu can do it in 64, half a dozen characters can do it in Melee) I agree that it IS annoying to fight someon that keeps planking/Sharking, but that's why we have the limit on edge and/or ban MK

 

[The Brazilian Afro]

Tocaraca have an idea near mine. I'd gp for not being able to sweetspot if there's someone on the edge rather than only invincibility, as there are ways to keep it indefinitely (you would still trump in free fall)... Actually happy that Brawl is receiving some love again.
About Planking.... Yeah, it sucks a lot that some characters can stall indefinitely, but that was never a problem in other games of the franchise, it's a bit more on the players to choos to do so. (Pikachu can do it in 64, half a dozen characters can do it in Melee) I agree that it IS annoying to fight someon that keeps planking/Sharking, but that's why we have the limit on edge and/or ban MK

 

[Tocaraca2]

Tocaraca have an idea near mine. I'd gp for not being able to sweetspot if there's someone on the edge rather than only invincibility, as there are ways to keep it indefinitely (you would still trump in free fall)... Actually happy that Brawl is receiving some love again.
About Planking.... Yeah, it sucks a lot that some characters can stall indefinitely, but that was never a problem in other games of the franchise, it's a bit more on the players to choos to do so. (Pikachu can do it in 64, half a dozen characters can do it in Melee) I agree that it IS annoying to fight someon that keeps planking/Sharking, but that's why we have the limit on edge and/or ban MK

The thing is that banning MK would make less players want to continue playing it. I find MK dittos pretty fun to watch, and he is fun to play, so banning him altogether is a bad idea.

 

[Respect38]

Is it possible to make Pirate Ship better by both/either fixing rudder-camping by making the "swimming up" animation drown the player after a reasonable amount of time and also make the outpost tower [that shoots bombs] an object that the game thinks is worth focusing the camera on when it spawns/comes into view?

 

[Sensane]

Is it possible to make Pirate Ship better by both/either fixing rudder-camping by making the "swimming up" animation drown the player after a reasonable amount of time and also make the outpost tower [that shoots bombs] an object that the game thinks is worth focusing the camera on when it spawns/comes into view?

Why would anyone want that? The swimming and outpost tower alone make the stage banned

 

[Respect38]

Because it would make them more reasonable to be legal for certain locals or regionals? And, in my opinion, more playable for friendlies since you get more vision on the bombs coming in.

[I don't even think the swimming is an issue, since it would be a lot of the purpose of counterpicking the stage, anyway. It fills a niche.]

 

[RIP|Merrick]

Well I've been working hard on making a mod that includes some of these ideas so there's that. The idea is to fix some of the most glaring flaws of the game on a competitive level without actually touching the characters themselves. Mostly just changes to the engine. However, might I suggest instead of immediately losing a game when grabbing a ledge too many times to go off the Smash 4 route and just have it so additional regrabbing of the ledge loses that characters invincibility? That would mitigate a lot of things significantly in my opinion.

 

[clydeaker]

This modification was just a small idea I had a wile back and I didn't even get past the early planing stages. After reading through the comments I've realized that this modification might have the potential to help revive competitive Brawl. Now that I've graduated from High School I plan on working on this in my free time during the summer. If any of you are experienced in Brawl modifications and want to help please send me a private message.

 

[Deleted member]

This modification was just a small idea I had a wile back and I didn't even get past the early planing stages. After reading through the comments I've realized that this modification might have the potential to help revive competitive Brawl. Now that I've graduated from High School I plan on working on this in my free time during the summer. If any of you are experienced in Brawl modifications and want to help please send me a private message.

My friend @LuigiMaster0 could probably help.

 

[Tocaraca2]

I don't know whether I've already said this, but what we need in this mod would be options to disable stage transformations and obstacles. If you disabled transformations, picking a stage that has transformations would bring up the different states of the stage, and you could choose which one to play on.
Disabling transformations will not disable obstacles, and disabling obstacles will not disable transformations. They are independent options.
Getting rid of obstacles on stages would have to do specific things on certain stages. For example, Jungle Japes would have to either have the water removed, or just remove the ability to swim in it. I'd much rather die from hitting the lower blast zone than getting swept away by a river.
Disabling obstacles on Frigate Orpheon would make the right edge of the stage grabbable, in the first state.

Also, Final Destination's lip should be changed so that you will slide up it rather than getting stuck under it, even if obstacles are enabled.

 

[Deleted member]

This modification was just a small idea I had a wile back and I didn't even get past the early planing stages. After reading through the comments I've realized that this modification might have the potential to help revive competitive Brawl. Now that I've graduated from High School I plan on working on this in my free time during the summer. If any of you are experienced in Brawl modifications and want to help please send me a private message.

It depends on if it modifies characters or not. If it does, then it has potential, if not, then it will end up the same way as Brawl did.
Also, I have experience in Brawl modding (but you probably already know that), however, I might move on to hacking Sm4sh and, even if I revisit Brawl, I might start my own project.

 

[Respect38]

For now, when it comes to stage modification, I wouldn't go any further than either adding an option to freeze stages. [if inspiration is needed to figure out how this could be possible, then perhaps looking into Brawl+, Brawl-, and/or Project M could help, since they involved freezing some of the stages]

If a simple means of freezing a stage could be found, that would be excellent.

Pirate Ship is improved.
Norfair is greatly improved. [provided LGL?]
Port Town is improved. [although little demand for a ledgeless stage, so still not legal, probably]
Castle Siege is arguable improved. [although both frozen and unfrozen could likely remain equally legal in the Sm4sh Omega sense]
Pokémon Stadium 2 is greatly improved. [and, in its frozen form, could likely be considered equals with PS1 in the Sm4sh Omega sense]
WarioWare, Inc. is greatly improved.
Pictochat is greatly improved. [and could likely be equals of Final Destination in the Sm4sh Omega sense, resolving Tocaraca's issue with FD's lip without having to actually change the game in any way, since Pictochat is effectively FD with a slant at the end of the base platform]
Jungle Japes is improved. [and could serve the same counterpicking niche as Pirate Ship with water, as I assume that a frozen Jungle Japes wouldn't sweep players from right to left]
Rainbow Cruise is arguable improved.
Green Greens is improved.

All of that just from giving the Brawl community the option to freeze the stage right upon spawn. [and this would also give many currently legal stages another variant, as well.]

A long term goal [probably after the first release of beta, should it ever come out] would be to continue improving on stages, but always doing so while leaving the original version of the stage intact.

As for changing characters, I heavily advise against it unless done in a way that gives a player the option of choice, as you have already outlined for some characters. The problem with attempting to force balance on the game instead of allowing people to play the same old game is that it pushes people away from the game, and, more importantly: it becomes a responsibility of the mod to actually balance test.

This mod shouldn't--if ever--be focused on balancing things from its outset. Getting boggled down in balance at its most volatile state is a terrible idea, especially for a game that's already in a volatile state itself. [and it's why I don't think that any of the stages should receive any changes; just look at what 20XXTE got away with, for example. Frozen stages, and nothing more. Don't even risk irritating your potential playerbase this early.]

 

[Tocaraca2]

It depends on if it modifies characters or not. If it does, then it has potential, if not, then it will end up the same way as Brawl did.
Also, I have experience in Brawl modding (but you probably already know that), however, I might move on to hacking Sm4sh and, even if I revisit Brawl, I might start my own project.

Please can you just stop? You've already said that you don't think Brawl is viable without changing characters, and that's fine, feel free to make your own mod, but this is clydeaker's mod and he does not think the same way as you. Stop shoving your opinion in our faces.

However, I do believe that MK should receive at least a few changes, mainly to Mach Tornado; just make it more like the Sm4sh version by giving it more end lag, reducing the hitbox size and removing some of its invincibility.
As for Up Air, I think it's obvious.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

I, too, am personally not terribly fond of character changes, especially if the idea behind this mod is to allow the tools to make Brawl more competitive without touching what made Brawl the way it is gameplay wise.

For me I've been looking into making a menu where you can toggle on and off certain options; for instance, for regions where Meta Knight and/or Ice Climbers are banned, a toggle could set it to essentially gray them out so they are unplayable and would be specific for a certain scenes ruleset.

For people who want to make "balanced" changes to Brawl, soon after tweaks to Meta Knight people will complain Ice Climbers are dumb, or King Dedede, until suddenly it's no longer Brawl and then the mod becomes it's own unrelated thing and then we're right back to square one trying to get Brawl back on its feet.

But yeah I think simply allowing the option to freeze certain stages in their neutral state rather than outright altering them would be best.

 

[clydeaker]

As for changing characters, I heavily advise against it unless done in a way that gives a player the option of choice, as you have already outlined for some characters. The problem with attempting to force balance on the game instead of allowing people to play the same old game is that it pushes people away from the game, and, more importantly: it becomes a responsibility of the mod to actually balance test.

This mod shouldn't--if ever--be focused on balancing things from its outset. Getting boggled down in balance at its most volatile state is a terrible idea, especially for a game that's already in a volatile state itself. [and it's why I don't think that any of the stages should receive any changes; just look at what 20XXTE got away with, for example. Frozen stages, and nothing more. Don't even risk irritating your potential playerbase this early.]

It depends on if it modifies characters or not. If it does, then it has potential, if not, then it will end up the same way as Brawl did.
Also, I have experience in Brawl modding (but you probably already know that), however, I might move on to hacking Sm4sh and, even if I revisit Brawl, I might start my own project.

Please can you just stop? You've already said that you don't think Brawl is viable without changing characters, and that's fine, feel free to make your own mod, but this is clydeaker's mod and he does not think the same way as you. Stop shoving your opinion in our faces.

However, I do believe that MK should receive at least a few changes, mainly to Mach Tornado; just make it more like the Sm4sh version by giving it more end lag, reducing the hitbox size and removing some of its invincibility.
As for Up Air, I think it's obvious.

On the topic of character changes.
The main reason I choose not to change characters is because it changes Brawl at it's competitive core, just about every Brawl mod on the scene heavily changes Brawls characters to the point where it's not even Brawl anymore. Take Melee for example, there hasn't been any changes to the characters or the meta game at all (with the exception of NTSC 1.0, 1.2, and PAL). The meta game changes, but the game fundamentally doesn't. If Nintendo kept making changes to Melee over the years it wouldn't be Melee anymore. Their are a few Melee mods that are played competitively such as 20XX Tournament Edition and 20XX Melee Hack Pack and yet they don't make any changes to the playable character. Mods like Melee SD Remix have the sole purpose of balancing the game with character changes, but it's not Melee anymore. Brawl modifications like Brawl+, Project M, and even Brawl Reborn focus on character changes to fix Brawl, but end up changing Brawl drastically to the point where it's not Brawl anymore.

I choose not to change any playable characters directly. The characters will be indirectly affected through small changes to the game engine, stage layouts, etc.

Although their won't be any direct changes to the default playable characters, their will be additional alternate characters.

Much like how Zero Suit Samus is selected by holding down R, alternate versions of characters will be selectable by holding down R.

• Mario
  • Yellow Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Mario’s moveset (no special moves).
• Kirby
  • Green Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Kirby’s and Jigglypuff’s moveset (no special moves).
• Zelda
  • Blue Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Zelda’s moveset (no special moves).
• Pokémon Trainer
  • Solo Pokémon - no automatic Pokémon change after K.O. (down special is still functional) and no Pokémon Trainer.
• Squirtle
  • Solo Squirtle - no automatic Pokémon change after K.O. (down special is still functional) and no Pokémon Trainer.
• Ivysaur
  • Solo Ivysaur - no automatic Pokémon change after K.O. (down special is still functional) and no Pokémon Trainer.
• Charizard
  • Solo Charizard - no automatic Pokémon change after K.O. (down special is still functional) and no Pokémon Trainer.
• Ice Climbers
  • Solo Popo - Only the lead Ice Climber is playable.
• Bowser
  • Giga Bowser - Bowser’s final smash character (doesn't turn back into Bowser).
• Wario
  • Wario-Man - Wario’s final smash character (doesn't turn back into Wario).
• Olimar
  • No Pikmin Olimar - Olimar spawns without pikmin (neutral special is still functional).
• Captain Falcon
  • Red Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Captain Falcon's moveset (no special moves).

Their will be a character slot for Zero Suit Samus, Shiek, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard on the character select screen.

 

[Deleted member]

Brawl Reborn

:'(

 

[RIP|Merrick]

Maybe a toggle for momentum cancelling on or off? I think allowing options like that for scenes that prefer those sorts of things could go a long way. So long as there is some clear indication somehow that changes made like that through toggles is not Brawl gameplay wise. Something similar to how Smash 4's screen turns all green with customs toggled on. That would be dope.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

A major change I would make to Brawl (and any smash game, really) is removal of port priority mechanics. If you both grab ledge at the same time, you can do basic ledge options as soon as possible, but if neither do, both are forced off the ledge on the same frame. If your grab and an opponent's grab hit each other, you should both break the grab and probably get to act on the same frame (or use regular character-based grab release advantage, or a new one favoring characters considered worse, or even to lose a particular matchup; changing silly mechanics to slightly help balance the cast shouldn't really take away from what makes the game what it is). Port-based Super Armor likely removed entirely.

Random movement based tripping being removed is almost entirely a good thing, but a way to consistently actually force yourself to be tripped could be interesting, so that could also be a toggle. Attacks that have a chance to trip could ideally be made to induce tripping in certain context, potentially based on what the opponent is doing or how they DI (and done in such a way to improve worse characters, or nerf tactics that help make the move that causes the trip ineffectual). Example: you could make it so DI in ranges that helps one survive Falcon's knee's sweetspot would cause a trip on his sourspot, but DI to distance yourself, and thus negate chances to hit Falcon after it hits, would not result in a trip. You could also make it so being in a grab animation while getting hit by Ness or Lucas's dtilt (since they have more lag after a grab release) forces a trip, no matter what (even if they land the grab). Suddenly, tripping becomes an interesting mechanic that adds depth, and can help balance the game without really changing the way it plays.

I can think of potential ways to replace the RNG shenanigans behind Game & Watch's Judgement, Olimar's Pikmin Pluck, D3's Waddle Dee Toss and Peach's Vegetable, but I probably wouldn't change any of those. I would, however, make it so that Peach's Fsmash weapon is determined by how you angle it, because it's super obvious and has no chance to disrupt gameplay in the ways changing the other random attacks could.

Outside of this, I'd mostly keep Brawl the same. It's a very unique game, and I love it for what it is. The things I mentioned (port priority, legitimate RNG) are things that while I don't think they get too much in the way with the game's competitive nature, or people's enjoyment of it, are things I think can be agreed are better replaced, and are not central to what makes the game what it is, or why people enjoy it.

 

[Tocaraca2]

On the topic of character changes.
The main reason I choose not to change characters is because it changes Brawl at it's competitive core, just about every Brawl mod on the scene heavily changes Brawls characters to the point where it's not even Brawl anymore. Take Melee for example, there hasn't been any changes to the characters or the meta game at all (with the exception of NTSC 1.0, 1.2, and PAL). The meta game changes, but the game fundamentally doesn't. If Nintendo kept making changes to Melee over the years it wouldn't be Melee anymore. Their are a few Melee mods that are played competitively such as 20XX Tournament Edition and 20XX Melee Hack Pack and yet they don't make any changes to the playable character. Mods like Melee SD Remix have the sole purpose of balancing the game with character changes, but it's not Melee anymore. Brawl modifications like Brawl+, Project M, and even Brawl Reborn focus on character changes to fix Brawl, but end up changing Brawl drastically to the point where it's not Brawl anymore.

I choose not to change any playable characters directly. The characters will be indirectly affected through small changes to the game engine, stage layouts, etc.

Although their won't be any direct changes to the default playable characters, their will be additional alternate characters.

Much like how Zero Suit Samus is selected by holding down R, alternate versions of characters will be selectable by holding down R.

• Mario
  • Yellow Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Mario’s moveset (no special moves).
• Kirby
  • Green Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Kirby’s and Jigglypuff’s moveset (no special moves).
• Zelda
  • Blue Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Zelda’s moveset (no special moves).
• Captain Falcon
  • Red Alloy - Fighting Alloy with Captain Falcon's moveset (no special moves).

Their will be a character slot for Zero Suit Samus, Shiek, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard on the character select screen.

OH! Are these allows from the Multi-Man Brawl game mode?

• Pokémon Trainer

• Solo Pokémon - no automatic Pokémon change after K.O. (down special is still functional) and no Pokémon Trainer.

Pointless option if you can already pick the individual Pokémon like this.

• Ice Climbers
  • Solo Popo - Only the lead Ice Climber is playable.
• Olimar
  • No Pikmin Olimar - Olimar spawns without pikmin (neutral special is still functional).

Why would you want these?

• Bowser
  • Giga Bowser - Bowser’s final smash character (doesn't turn back into Bowser).

• Wario

• Wario-Man - Wario’s final smash character (doesn't turn back into Wario)

Sounds like a troll option. I assume these would not be allowed to be played in tournaments?

 

[Respect38]

Yes, the alloys are the ones from Multi-Man Smash.

As for SoPo, I think you would want these just because it's an extra option that some people mess with already. [hell, it would make it easier to practice SoPo neutral as well without having to kill off Nana. I assume some people could make use of this]

Also, it would give an out for people who want to ban Ice Climbers for their chaingrabs: you could simply ban the Climbers and legalize SoPo. I believe that SoPo by himself is generally believed to probably be a mid-tier character or so.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, the alloys are the ones from Multi-Man Smash.

As for SoPo, I think you would want these just because it's an extra option that some people mess with already. [hell, it would make it easier to practice SoPo neutral as well without having to kill off Nana. I assume some people could make use of this]

Also, it would give an out for people who want to ban Ice Climbers for their chaingrabs: you could simply ban the Climbers and legalize SoPo. I believe that SoPo by himself is generally believed to probably be a mid-tier character or so.

Please stop calling him SoPo, and call him Sopo. I understand that it's a shortened version of "Solo Popo", however it's horrendous on the eyes. Thank You.