Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[JCaesar]

Guys, It's not in dash.

It's in run.

You need to be in RUN, not dash. DACUS would be screwed over if it was during dash.

Slow down for a second. Dash = Run. You're thinking about Initial Dash.

And you can DACUS while you're already in full run btw. All it takes to initiate is a dash attack.

"Near-Gold"?

but there's so much that we haven't talked about, or at the least i haven't seen out in the open. what about discussions on those character-specific techrolls? what about getup/ledge attacks? what about footstools?! there's a slew of problems involving those!

what about hurtbox sizes, especially during dtilts and hitstun animations? are you happy with how tall ganon is, how huge DK and Bowser are? and what about that 'hub' that was being talked about recently? with b+ coming to a 'gold' release, exactly what purpose would it serve, if even completed at all now? would it be a register for the community's gripes which would be addressed every half year or so?

so many questions have been unanswered. would this, then, be the best time to ask them?

Most of those are just polish fixes. The gameplay and character balance, short of unforeseen problems, should be complete and final in this build.

Test away!

 

[Swordplay]

Running smash attacks? Matt has the right idea. You can't really do running smash attacks, you have to wait for the animation to end. Do this by crouch canceling. Some characters though will continue to slide as if they were running.

Its a trick I use with sonic. Running>crouch cancel>slide>reverse F-smash is one of my favorite tricks (ask matt4300)

See when he runs and you crouch cancel he slides really fast for what seems like forever, (like a little over half of fd) and of course once you crouch you can smash.

This actually works with a lot of characters. But try it out. My controler setup has x set to special for jump cancel specials and r to attack for dacus. However with r set to attack. I can easily crouch cancel, slide with the low friction, and then charge a smash with c-stick tap and R.

I can't put my finger on it as I don't remember the slide being this long. was the friction modifier changed for any characters?


Its not so much in the run. Its in the massive lengthy and fast slide after you crouch cancel the run.

 

[shanus]

That requires gecko 1.9 thing should be removed. When we used that required 1.9 long ago, Gecko 1.9 had JUST come out, so we needed to tell people they were required to update their gecko os to support the use of gameconfig.txt

Also, the name "Near Gold" was a terrible idea lol. Just use a version number until its done.

 

[DarkDragoon]

That requires gecko 1.9 thing should be removed. When we used that required 1.9 long ago, Gecko 1.9 had JUST come out, so we needed to tell people they were required to update their gecko os to support the use of gameconfig.txt

Also, the name "Near Gold" was a terrible idea lol. Just use a version number until its done.

Or use "Silver", or "Unrefined Gold".
Or "Final Beta".
-DD

 

[[TSON]]

Slow down for a second. Dash = Run. You're thinking about Initial Dash.

And you can DACUS while you're already in full run btw. All it takes to initiate is a dash attack.

I'm using official terms. Dash = initial dash, Run = looping animation.

 

[The Cape]

Not sure how I feel about this new dash cancel. It adds far too much sliding for the dash cancel to initiate the form of control that it initially brought about as well as the D smash directly from run (with a slide) by just pressing down seems to be a very odd addition. I think I would actually be in favor of reverting back to the old dash cancel code (with end freezing glitch and all) until we can properly fix this mess.

 

[goodoldganon]

Not sure how I feel about this new dash cancel. It adds far too much sliding for the dash cancel to initiate the form of control that it initially brought about as well as the D smash directly from run (with a slide) by just pressing down seems to be a very odd addition. I think I would actually be in favor of reverting back to the old dash cancel code (with end freezing glitch and all) until we can properly fix this mess.

But Cape, you said it yourself, you gotta play more and not go off of initial gut feelings and changelists.

(2-1 odds Cape yells at me)

I'll test later this afternoon. I'm most concerned with how it affected DACUS.

 

[proteininja]

I just got diddy kong to float upwards while charging his up+b. I was on yoshi's island(brawl) and it just happened. i tried to reproduce it but i can't. It was like he took upward momentum from something. It looked like the diddy upb equivalent of a mortar slide.

Ideas?

 

[exfatal]

i personal love the sliding thing its fun, (which i had hope was the core goal of this project) hell i wouldnt mind it going back, but as for now i dont see much of a problem with it.

 

[The Cape]

The dash cancel was initially put in as a way to gain more control while running, however with the extra sliding it seems to defeat that purpose due to the fact that you slide rather far. You can cancel the slide with certain moves and certain characters so it may wind up being a better thing, but I am unsure if this was the desired result when the code was rewritten (as the initial goal was to fix the end of match freezing).

 

[JCaesar]

I want to try the new DC code but I'm still uneasy about it.

Also, you all realize you could already dsmash out of dash, right? Just not with the C-stick.

Oh well, I should be able to try this out tonight and see how it feels.

I'm using official terms. Dash = initial dash, Run = looping animation.

Well if you're using official terms rather than community-accepted ones, then I never want to see you using the term "teching." Call it "ukemi" or whatever the Japanese name that Sakurai gave it was.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I'm most concerned with how it affected DACUS.

DACUS out of the initial dashing animation works the exact same way. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you can no longer DACUS out of a full run; I tried full run » A » up+Z with Snake, which is like the easiest character to DACUS with, and I can never DACUS.
Most of the time, people DACUS from a standing position, anyway, but not being able to DACUS from a full run would still cause problems occasionally.

Also, you all realize you could already dsmash out of dash, right? Just not with the C-stick.

Actually, you could d-smash with the c-stick from a dash before. From initially dash, do it right when you turn around in a dash dance; in a full run, just quickly let go of down after the crouch cancel.

 

[The Cape]

Well its mostly the issue that you can do it as you can the C stick U smashes. Where you just flick the stick and do the move while sliding. This does mess up some of the DASCUS options as has been mentioned and the sliding actually creates a lack of control which makes the code counter productive.

 

[ChronicleX]

But how is it counter productive? Everything that was possible from a Dash in GH2 is possible now. The amount of slide can be controlled depending on which direction you cancel it with, be it DF or DB and you can consistently preform attacks with certain DB/DF etc motions.

In short the current mechanic grants MORE control once you know how, takes nothing away and adds a fair bit. Why do you want to take this away?

 

[ValTroX]

Not sure how I feel about this new dash cancel. It adds far too much sliding for the dash cancel to initiate the form of control that it initially brought about as well as the D smash directly from run (with a slide) by just pressing down seems to be a very odd addition. I think I would actually be in favor of reverting back to the old dash cancel code (with end freezing glitch and all) until we can properly fix this mess.

I got your back on that decision. I gotta say, I love it with my Lucas though

 

[iLink]

I figured out a neat little thing with Luigi

If you dash then crouch and move a bit backwards and let go, you get a neat slide backwards while still facing forward. I'm not sure if this works with other characters with crouches, I'll test it some.

EDIT: LOL Sheik gets a really long slide, maybe as long as her DACUS

EDITEDIT: I tried everyone else with a crawl, none of them seem to have a significantly slide compared to Luigi and Sheik.

 

[GuruKid]

Changelist? Please?

 

[Isatis]

An official one is being worked on...

 

[Plum]

I figured out a neat little thing with Luigi

If you dash then crouch and move a bit backwards and let go, you get a neat slide backwards while still facing forward. I'm not sure if this works with other characters with crouches, I'll test it some.

EDIT: LOL Sheik gets a really long slide, maybe as long as her DACUS

EDITEDIT: I tried everyone else with a crawl, none of them seem to have a significantly slide compared to Luigi and Sheik.

Its called crawldasing.
Technically any character with a crawl can crawldash though Luigi and Sheik are the two that can use it very effectively.

Diddy, Squirtle, Yoshi, and a few others have a noticeable slide as well, but it isn't nearly as far as Luigi's or Sheik's, and not nearly as useful. Especially when Diddy has an amazing glidetoss and infinite access to it, and Squirtle has shellshifting.

 

[eisley]

Hurray for falcon down B recovery! Unless I am blind and didnt notice I saved my double jump but Im sure I didnt cuz I down B'd and jumped 2x!

 

[GP&B]

On the note of visual appearance, is someone working on the title screen? I noticed BBrawl has one now (quite spiffy-looking) and I'm curious if someone has been or is going to do it for Brawl+.

Not to get off-topic, but has anyone tried menu textures? I haven't heard of a single instance of progress on this stuff and I'm also wondering (in the case that there is some good work in the process) if someone is doing this too.

 

[Isatis]

The title screen is already edited (sc_title.pac), planning on opening BrawlBox later to edit the title screen to remove the "5.0" part.

 

[iLink]

Its called crawldasing.
Technically any character with a crawl can crawldash though Luigi and Sheik are the two that can use it very effectively.

Diddy, Squirtle, Yoshi, and a few others have a noticeable slide as well, but it isn't nearly as far as Luigi's or Sheik's, and not nearly as useful. Especially when Diddy has an amazing glidetoss and infinite access to it, and Squirtle has shellshifting.

I always thought crawldashing was something else. Well Luigi's is pretty cool and useful, Sheik's is kinda odd though considering the slide goes more then half of smashville.

EDIT: I'm kinda liking it now, with sheik if you run past someone and slide backwards while doing dsmash, you can get two hits in.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The title screen of Brawl+ IS edited...


and for some reason, some things in the GCT work, but some do not. For example, Skyworld + still works, but WW and PS2 do not work...downloading the GCT individually did not help.....any ideas??

 

[GP&B]

The title screen is already edited (sc_title.pac), planning on opening BrawlBox later to edit the title screen to remove the "5.0" part.

Good to hear. So, you're replacing that with "6.0" or altogether? I assume by Gold release, "Gold" will also be put there?

 

[iLink]

Lol I'm going to make a video in a bit with all the stuff I can do with this crawldash.

 

[Veril]

The running d-smash is stupid. It was possible to do before with crouch canceling and it wasn't even difficult. DACUS, while still possible is now very awkward when performed out of a run for anyone who's used to the c-stick down + upz method.

 

[MK26]

The running d-smash is stupid. It was possible to do before with crouch canceling and it wasn't even difficult. DACUS, while still possible is now very awkward when performed out of a run for anyone who's used to the c-stick down + upz method.

^^100x this

EDIT: actually, 1000x this

 

[Alphatron]

And playing with Ness/Yoshi is awkward for anyone who didn't use a jump button or used tap jump. At least, it used to be for me. Maybe this is something to get used to as well.

 

[proteininja]

I just got diddy kong to float upwards while charging his up+b. I was on yoshi's island(brawl) and it just happened. i tried to reproduce it but i can't. It was like he took upward momentum from something. It looked like the diddy upb equivalent of a mortar slide.

Ideas?

Quoted to get a response. I tried to replicate it for 10 minutes with no luck. Why did this happen?

Also, Bowser sliding a d-smash to the ledge is the sexiest thing ever. Bowser sliding d-smash period is sexy. Bowser is sexy.

Edit: PLEASE!!! keep running down smashes. It gives bowser another approach to mix things up.

 

[Veril]

And playing with Ness/Yoshi is awkward for anyone who didn't use a jump button or used tap jump. At least, it used to be for me. Maybe this is something to get used to as well.

Ness is definitely best with tap-jump and the jump button imo for optimal DJCFF aerials. It definitely takes some getting used to, but DJC is sooo cool.


The new dash-cancel on the other hand is ********. I absolutely despise it. I'll take the old code with its issues over this crap.

^^100x this

EDIT: actually, 1000x this

MK26 and I actually are in agreement on something. That there is a f***ing sign. j/k <3

Quoted to get a response. I tried to replicate it for 10 minutes with no luck. Why did this happen?

Also, Bowser sliding a d-smash to the ledge is the sexiest thing ever. Bowser sliding d-smash period is sexy. Bowser is sexy.

Sliding d-smashes were possible before. I don't know what happened with diddy, I'll check it out if you can't replicate it at all.

 

[ValTroX]

The running d-smash is stupid. It was possible to do before with crouch canceling and it wasn't even difficult. DACUS, while still possible is now very awkward when performed out of a run for anyone who's used to the c-stick down + upz method.

I'm used to that, .

Hurray on Falcon's downB refreshing double jump, I love you guys in a completely non-homo way.

 

[iLink]

Quoted to get a response. I tried to replicate it for 10 minutes with no luck. Why did this happen?

Also, Bowser sliding a d-smash to the ledge is the sexiest thing ever. Bowser sliding d-smash period is sexy. Bowser is sexy.

Did you use his upb after being hit? That usually causes some weird momentum.

 

[The Cape]

Quoted to get a response. I tried to replicate it for 10 minutes with no luck. Why did this happen?

Also, Bowser sliding a d-smash to the ledge is the sexiest thing ever. Bowser sliding d-smash period is sexy. Bowser is sexy.

Edit: PLEASE!!! keep running down smashes. It gives bowser another approach to mix things up.

Seen this before in vBrawl. I think it has something to do with jump and upB at the same time. Basically like Lucas Zap Jump.

As for the dash cancel code, the amount of sliding you do (uncontrolable or not) is going to cause a good deal of issues as it allows you to approach doing any move. Brawl+ with wavedashing a long time ago has this issue because of WD U tilt with Snake. its gonna be the same crap here and does not accomplish its original goal.

 

[Veril]

the old dash cancel code should be reinstated. please. I loved it just how it was. It was possible to running d-smash with that code >.< I did it all the god d*** time with MK.

It gave people a more varied approach without messing with the running DACUS or being overpowered.

 

[iLink]

Ya I was going to say, this is really similar wavedashing in a way.

 

[Meta Jay]

So on the Homebrew updatifier, do you select "Latest Official" or "Latest Beta" do d/l this build?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

for some reason, some things in the GCT work, but some do not. For example, Skyworld + still works, but WW and PS2 do not work...downloading the GCT individually did not help.....any ideas??

Quoted in wait for a good response? D:

 

[ValTroX]

What do you mean WW and PS2 don't work? they are still fine in my B+ . o.o

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I'm kinda liking it now, with sheik if you run past someone and slide backwards while doing dsmash, you can get two hits in.

You can get three hits while sliding to the left, BTW.
I've always love crawldashing with Sheik, and have been using it since who-knows-when. You can do quite a lot with it, and it has all the mindgame and usage capabilities that a wavedash has, really. The only thing that was hindering it to be extremely viable before the the lack of being able to use it to slide in both directions (you could only slide to the left, before). With this new dash crouch cancel code, it allows crawldashing in either direction, and amplifies the distance of ones you could already do before. But this would be better suited for the Sheik thread.

The running d-smash is stupid. It was possible to do before with crouch canceling and it wasn't even difficult. DACUS, while still possible is now very awkward when performed out of a run for anyone who's used to the c-stick down + upz method.

Well, you don't get as much of a slide. It's significantly noticeable for characters like Sheik, which benefit greatly from this new dash crouch cancel. And like I said before, I don't think it's possible to DACUS out of a full run, anymore, with this new code.
I wouldn't really mind if it goes back to the old code, though. The big thing I'll miss is the ability to crawldash in both directions (and maybe Sheik's new amazing sliding d-smash). Hopefully, the crawldash problem can be fixed some other way.


PS: Bionic's rules (probably a little too strict) are getting broken left and right...