Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[kupo15]

A lot of the changes you proposed aren't going to be included for a multitude of reasons:

1. not everyone agreed on it

Name them. I'm curious

2. no1 figured out how to do it

3. no1 figured out how to do it (again for extra emphasis)

So for the ones people did accept, how are you going to handle it if you do in fact have the means to make these codes after the next nightly? Are you going to wait the many months before adding them, are you not going to add them ever...ect???

 

[zxeon]

You better get to work kupo.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

especially since shanus said the new nightly would be out by the end of this week

 

[Thunderhorse+]

So I guess this means the delay of the next set? Take your time if you still need to figure out stuff.

No this means the next set is coming out on time, but without the changes, and they will most likely make the best of the upcoming months ahead to figure out/perfect said changes for the set after this one.

There has been no implication so far that they will hold back the next set in order to figure out codes that could, in theory, take a very long time.

And they shouldn't either.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Okay, then, I was just wondering. But, seriously, if you guys feel like you need more time, please do. I mean, it's not like we have a time limit.

 

[kr3wman]

Just give Snake's Cable moves from MvC2.

He already has the nades and the keepaway game, just need to add some Hyper Viper Beams.

 

[shanus]

No this means the next set is coming out on time, but without the changes, and they will most likely make the best of the upcoming months ahead to figure out/perfect said changes for the set after this one.

There has been no implication so far that they will hold back the next set in order to figure out codes that could, in theory, take a very long time.

And they shouldn't either.

Bingo, we have plans, but we know getting things absolutely perfect is going to take a long time. This next set we are pretty proud of and serves as a great interim as it is very refined and serves as a perfect medium to get feedback while we work on cleaning up gameplay

 

[zxeon]

That was epic kr3wman. By the way shanus are those Link changes going to make it in?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

and peach's non-special offensive collision fair? :D


and I'm wanting to know what changes are being made to peach besides the side b toning down. anything?

 

[Mattnumbers]

The only problem is that some of the changes suggested have a potential to really change stuff, and if they do that will render a good portion of the experience we get from the break in nightly builds less useful.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Please ignore this post.

 

[camelot]

and peach's non-special offensive collision fair? :D

Even though it's technically a "special" collision, it's actually the same as a regular one.

I'd explain it in a lot more detail but it's boring.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Not quite. In melee, if you hit an enemy behind you with it, they would go backwards (away from peach)

in brawl, if they are behind you and you hit them, they go towards peach (in front of her)

 

[camelot]

Hmm... ok, but how would that help Peach?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I don't really know, to be honest. but it was cool...sort of....

XD


At least it wouldn't really be a buff...

 

[Perfect Chaos]

It serves essentially the same purpose as Falcon's reverse knee.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

only less powerful or ranged.... but it would still be an interesting addition, as peach already has many moves that hit behind her (up smash, forward smash, forward tilt, up tilt, bair, down smash, side b if slingshotted)

 

[crazycrackers]

I don't really see the point in adding that -__-. It wouldn't really do much for Peach.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I know, but...it's not like it would hurt anything right?


EDIT: it might be useful for reverse dair combos....

 

[goodoldganon]

The number of people in this topic that don't know how to play Snake or haven't played a good Snake in Brawl+ is astounding. What's even more astounding is that you guys think you know how to balance him. I played with Snake's new tilts and he falls very hard with changes to the tilt ranges. I'll quote my post from the Backroom.

Ok here is what is wrong with Snake's new tilts now that I got time to play as him. First off the size change is massive to anyone that has played as or against Snake for more than 2 minutes. I find it laughable that you guys can say a tilt change isn't that major and still keep a straight face.

These changes not only hurt his camping game they also remove his two pokes. Snake has virtually no way to poke shield's effectively anymore. DK has F-tilt, Wolf has B-air, Samus has Z-air, but Snake really doesn't have anything to poke at shields. Despite the ridiculous range on his old tilts he needed that range to ever poke at a shield.

Now, even at max range, any character faster than Link can punish Snake on a blocked tilt. And as I've said, Snake get's ragdolled when he's caught. If in the off chance you get a moment to shield you are still going to get punished by a half way decent opponent. My best bet was to spam spot dodge and that's going to get fixed soon (I assume.)

So now I'm left with a character who can't safely poke shields, can't really mount an offense or combo game, has a terribly predictable recovery and gets combo'd as hard as Falcon does. He just isn't fun to play and is a shell of his old self. I think it's funny you guys say he still has the best tilts but I'd rather have DK's tilts as well as a few other tilts.

The point is that despite what a bunch of you whine about, good Snakes facing good opponents don't throw out F-tilt willy nilly and catch you in it. Good Snakes know the range on his tilts and good Snakes hit you at that max range so they don't get punished.

Either way, Snake shouldn't hold up the next set. If the community/WBR can't come to an agreement we should still release the set and we'll fix Snake over the week. I have ideas on how to change him up if we wanted to make him more diverse, but as can be seen most Snake mains like him how he as.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Amen, goodoldganon. Sometimes your posts are even sexier than leafgreen's.

 

[CloneHat]

Well well, GOG.

I'm surprised that if the change was that bad there's been NO FEEDBACK outside the BRoom. Oh wait, it was a BRoom build, so I guess these changes were NEVER SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC.

No offense, but maybe you people have gotta stop being so secretive if you want people to properly understand what's going on.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Well well, GOG.

I'm surprised that if the change was that bad there's been NO FEEDBACK outside the BRoom. Oh wait, it was a BRoom build, so I guess these changes were NEVER SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC.

No offense, but maybe you people have gotta stop being so secretive if you want people to properly understand what's going on.

.....and my admiring status for GoG is ....dead.

 

[Dan_X]

...That is just really, really ****ing stupid guys. You're nerfing a character who is already bad in this game.

Ally swept a B+ tournament with Snake, what are you talking about?

 

[goodoldganon]

Well well, GOG.

I'm surprised that if the change was that bad there's been NO FEEDBACK outside the BRoom. Oh wait, it was a BRoom build, so I guess these changes were NEVER SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC.

No offense, but maybe you people have gotta stop being so secretive if you want people to properly understand what's going on.

I've never understood why we don't release patch notes or something while we are changing stuff, but w/e. Also Orca, according to the canada players Ally gets swept by his area in Brawl+. I'm unsure why or how he did so well at that one tournament.

 

[matt4300]

Well well, GOG.

I'm surprised that if the change was that bad there's been NO FEEDBACK outside the BRoom. Oh wait, it was a BRoom build, so I guess these changes were NEVER SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC.

No offense, but maybe you people have gotta stop being so secretive if you want people to properly understand what's going on.

I don't really want to get in on this argument but..... QFT!

I've seen this done multiple times in the link thread... Like right now. We need to see the link changes in the WBR link set to give any constructive feed back, and to integrate the changes we are working on and testing with the changes you guys are proposeing... We can't know what tweaks in our set will work with the secret WBR set.
For instance we sped up the second jabs IASA frames ... but we have no idea if you guys did something different to his JC like made them less DI able instead. I've asked a few times to get a change list or something but to no avail

The point is: How are we soposed to be knowledgeable and make good arguments when we don't even know what we are dealing with?

 

[CloneHat]

Yah, it would be nice if the WBR gave some notes on what was happening, instead of it just appearing on the IRC and people freaking out.

As for Snake...

I've never fought a Snake player. Ever. I've only seen lots of vids. Anyone can tell his playstyle is uncomplicated and spammy, but I, in my Snake ignorance, can't give suggestions on what to do. Sorry if it makes it sound like an unfounded argument.

The bottom line is: it's only possible to give Snake proper changes with the cooperation of Snake mains.

 

[proteininja]

It was requested earlier that I post replay data of myself as Bowser and Ness getting ***** by Falcon, and when I said to my roommate, "Hey want to make some vids of you destroying me?" He was glad to oblige. I am not the best I know so without further ado...

http://www.mediafire.com/?momhd10qogt
http://www.mediafire.com/?xnmmqy4gynf
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmmy0geituw
http://www.mediafire.com/?4knymyjnnun
http://www.mediafire.com/?y3zzmyhwyzu
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmntvlwyvlj
http://www.mediafire.com/?2myfbkha25d


Edit: I am using the latest nightly build 8-13-09 WTF MEDIAFIRE!!!

 

[SymphonicSage12]

key word: YOU getting ***** by falcon. Not bowser. or Ness. You're not going to get the broken changes you requested, so just GIVE IT UP.

 

[Shadic]

Your link is broken. And SS, shut up. You aren't helping.

 

[shanus]

Well well, GOG.

I'm surprised that if the change was that bad there's been NO FEEDBACK outside the BRoom. Oh wait, it was a BRoom build, so I guess these changes were NEVER SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC.

No offense, but maybe you people have gotta stop being so secretive if you want people to properly understand what's going on.

because it changes constantly and providing patch notes would be unreliable.

@gog, don't act like your so involved either, you were gone for weeks and you know it and now you come in here parading about snake when we were still discussing in the BR without any solid agreement yet.

Shadic: our build is similar to yours

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Sorry............

 

[cAm8ooo]

It was requested earlier that I post replay data of myself as Bowser and Ness getting ***** by Falcon, and when I said to my roommate, "Hey want to make some vids of you destroying me?" He was glad to oblige. I am not the best I know so without further ado...

Me getting *****...

Edit: I am using the latest nightly build 8-13-09

I haven't watched your replay yet but if your saying Ness needs buffs then im gonna have to slam my head into the computer a few times (but im assuming your just saying falcon needs nerfs like usual). Perhaps when i plug up my wii ill watch.



Also, i just got back from work and read through the past 3-4 pages and have come to the conclusion that people need to calm down. If the WBR is gonna change Snake some then at least test it out before yelling cuss words and asking what the WBR is thinking. Some people in here really act childish at times. If you disagree with something that is being done then be polite and provide logic, facts and reasoning on why you believe what you believe.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Once again, I am sorry for my outbursts.

Although I still need more proof to the fact that Falcon needs nerfs. I mean one **** matchup isn't that bad....

 

[proteininja]

vids are working now...peace

 

[goodoldganon]

@gog, don't act like your so involved either, you were gone for weeks and you know it and now you come in here parading about snake when we were still discussing in the BR without any solid agreement yet.

When we have topics discussing a deadline, numerous posts saying the set is soon, and a pretty much agreed consensus that this set is gonna sit for a while, I'm not gonna roll over when characters are unjustly nerfed because some WBR member refuse to learn to fight a different character.

 

[CloneHat]

The notes don't have to be reliable, shanus. Just a glimpse of what people are thinking about.

We the people want to see what's in the works; the Nightly Builds aren't really test sets when it takes so much arguing to get an idea in, and so much more to get one out. They just bridge the gap between the Official Plussery Builds; instead of guess-and-test builds, they're just basically building up to the next one with "official" at the beginning of its title.

Surely you'll agree that more people's feedback will produce a more accurate representation of a general opinion? The WBR are not the only competent people here.

 

[matt4300]

Shadic: our build is similar to yours

If your refering to the link changes I asked about. Can you tell us exacly what is different in yours... Like arrow KB or the DI changes you hinted at in the link thread?
On another note... It was me that asked about this and has asked a few times not shadic. I don't know if I'm intentionally ignored but it sure feels like it most of the time... Sometimes I feel like my posts don't even appear..

 

[Shadic]

I'm pretty sure he addressed it to me because I'm the one running the Link topic/who made the test .pac. Thanks for pestering him though. (Also, our names are 50% the same)

Thanks though, Shanus. Should we expect Bow KB/Bomb changes?

 

[matt4300]

I'm pretty sure he addressed it to me because I'm the one running the Link topic/who made the test .pac. Thanks for pestering him though. (Also, our names are 50% the same)

Thanks though, Shanus. Should we expect Bow KB/Bomb changes?

Sorry... Ive just personally addressed shanus about this 3 or 4 times through posts or PMs and never got a reply. When we get a reply its addressed to you like I never said anything... No hard feelings shanus... but you can see how this would irritate someone. Its not like I'm a Brawl+ n00b... Ive been with it since the first few codes and lurk or post nearly everyday while doing nearly everything in my power to be more hands on. Though i cant do as much as I would like to due to life...

Oh and pretty sure bombs still cant be messed with... Magus made some codes a while back and I tested ... Nothing came of it.