Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Roxas215]

I still think snake is top 10 but i dont mind him now. Peach can finally hold her own against snake.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

i like all the characters. some things are stupid to me but its more opinion based i guess (falco's utilt). im just waiting for that good ol character specific hitstun

 

[camelot]

Hey guys,

I found a way to take away Metaknight's transcendent priority.

Using SA, I took away his transcendent priority for all attacks (including ledge attacks, get-up attacks, and Tornado). Examples: Ness's jab can sometimes clank with Tornado. Ness's yo-yo and bat completely go through Tornado. Ness's ftilt and fsmash clank with MK's fsmash and dsmash. Ness's yo-yo completely goes through MK's fsmash and dsmash.

Want to try it yourself? Here's the .pac file: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ryjjzjmmgaw
(rename it as FitMetaknight.pac)

In the .pac I also changed the SFX on MK's dsmash, so that it actually plays the sound it was intended to. But that's not really important.

 

[CloneHat]

Nice job!

But WILL anyone want it, or is it "part of his character"?

 

[Revven]

It's a huge nerf we're not gonna do, sorry.

 

[JCaesar]

I have yet to have Snake tilts beat a smart player with bad timing. That's why it was badly timed. ;V

Of course spamming tilts isn't gonna beat a smart player. Smart play is the only thing that can beat a smart player.

That doesn't change the fact that Snake's jab/tilts are the best option in most close/medium range situations, because the risk/reward ratios for them are out of whack compared to most characters' close range options. It doesn't matter though, Snake has more than enough weaknesses to make up for it, and is therefore a balanced character.

 

[camelot]

It's a huge nerf we're not gonna do, sorry.

Ah, ok. I thought you guys were considering it.

 

[Revven]

We thought about it but, figured it'd be a double edged sword (lol pun) plus, it's an unnecessary nerf. Maybe if he dominates just as well as he does in vBrawl we'll come back to it for some of his moves.

 

[GHNeko]

If anything, it might be used on a move or two at most. (Looking at you MK Dash Attack) as that's not a real staple move or fondation of a staple tactic of MK and is used like all other Dash Attacks, so it could stand to be made into a regular dash attack rather than being inheritly superior to all others attacks. :V

 

[Magus420]

His dash attack and glide attack are 2 of the few things he has that don't have TP.

 

[GHNeko]

I've never had my MK DA clank. <_>

I guess i've had a wonderous stroke of good timing on my part / bad timing on their part then.

Remind me again what attacks in Brawl do have TP?

 

[Mattnumbers]

I would like to see TP removed on 'Nado, then you could make it rise again.

 

[GHNeko]

I would like to see TP removed on 'Nado, then you could make it rise again.

And then returns uair > uair > uair > uair > uair > nado to top of screen, which would be mad easier with hitstun lmao.

Nado is fine as it is, even with TP, because if it gets blocked, MK gets punished, and in a game where a mistake can mean as much as 20% to a whole stock and MK's average life span is smaller than average, he wants to make as little mistakes as possible, so you really can't just toss out a nado unless you know it will hit.

Hell, he can't even nado to a higher platform to escape puishment now. You want to make the nado harder to punish?

 

[gnosis]

Hell, he can't even nado to a higher platform to escape puishment now. You want to make the nado harder to punish?

Different to punish, not necessarily harder. With that you wouldn't wait to hit him in the winddown, you'd hit him out of it since it'd be a lot easier. At least I think that's what it's supposed to be like.

 

[GHNeko]

You can hit him out of it now. :V

It's just mad hard. The punishment is more potent during wind down than just hitting him out of his attack as when you hit MK out of nado, you risk a trade off as well. that and moves that would hit him out of nado generally dont serve as combo moves and you can't really grab MK out of a tornado, but you can grab him during wind down.

You see where I'm going with this?

I hope so. <3

 

[camelot]

His dash attack and glide attack are 2 of the few things he has that don't have TP.

Dash attack, glide attack, his "trip" attack, and (I think) his drill didn't have TP. Everything else did, though

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I hope you guys aren't talking about toilet paper.

 

[GHNeko]

We're talking about Midna.

 

[camelot]

Transcendent Priority.

 

[gnosis]

You can hit him out of it now. :V

It's just mad hard. The punishment is more potent during wind down than just hitting him out of his attack as when you hit MK out of nado, you risk a trade off as well. that and moves that would hit him out of nado generally dont serve as combo moves and you can't really grab MK out of a tornado, but you can grab him during wind down.

You see where I'm going with this?

I hope so. <3

Yep, makes sense. I like it better as it is now anyway.

 

[Alphatron]

Transcending priority on some of the fastest attacks in the game still sounds scary as hell.

 

[thesage]

The tornado doesn't have Transcendent Priority. It's just a multihit move that clanks with a lot of attacks which is why multihit moves or moves with TP can go through it.

 

[GHNeko]

I agree. let's give Ganon Grounded Down B some Midna. :V

 

[Plum]

I agree. let's give Ganon Grounded Down B some Midna. :V

Like the WizTruck doesn't find itself plowing through enough worthless sacks of scrubs as it is? Midna would be scary as hell on the WizTruck <:V

 

[GHNeko]

So like what moves could use TP?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Ness' Down B

Imagine how broken that would be.

 

[matt4300]

Ness' Down B

Imagine how broken that would be.

So like what moves could use TP?

YOYOS!!!! Though from what I hear they can't be messed with...

That and I seriously think that links spin attack should have it... its so weird that you can just break the move with a simple attack... And its still only does 12 damage and doesnt kill till the 130s. Just saying it won't be OP

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Peach's jab would be broken with transcendent priority. LOL


In fact, pretty much ANY move with TP is broken.

 

[Plum]

So like what moves could use TP?

Spoiler

Snake's tilts, G&W's Bair and Nair, ROB's Nair and Dsmash, Ike's Fair, Olimar's smashes, Luigi's Nair, Wario's aerials, and etc.

Anything I'm forgetting there? :V

Point is, nothing seriously actually needs any TP... that is just messing with things we shouldn't be messing with; at least as far as B+ is concerned it is just creating things that are too game changing even in B+. That's how I see it at least.

 

[Strong Badam]

donkey kong's bair/uar/up/b

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

hey..is there a code to remove footstools? pm me the code if there is since im sure b+ won't remove footstools. (is being nice) I like the roster. I played some test build @ glicks and everyone seemed pretty decent, counterpicks and what not but still u get the idea. I hope that falco/fox sideb hitbox thing happens and character specific hitstun. im more in favor of the hitstun thing. also if any1 knows what build had falcon's gentleman please pm me..id like to mess with that.

 

[thesage]

I think wind could be considered having transcendent priority, therefore Ness' down-b does have TP. =D

Also his fair and the tailwhip of pkt actually do have tp.

 

[KOkingpin]

Snake's tilts still beat everything even with BAD timing because of how long the hitboxes linger, on top of their enormous size and priority. Just throwing that out there.

Exactly

I personally don't think Snake is even top 10 right now (but admittedly that could be because I'm a ROB main and I counter the hell out of Snakes )

I cant agree with that. Snakes Tilts are just too good for him to not be in the top 10. That and his camping game beats out everyone but R.O.B. An aggressive snake would be hard for a R.O.B. to fight if you ask me. Snake and meta-knight are still the kings of this game if you ask me. With Lucas, Kirby, and Squirtle coming on strong. People just dont want to play Snake and Meta right now. Its a stigma.

Considering that Falco's reflector hitboxes dont match the animation and Falco extends his hurtbox during the down B animation.

That doesnt sound quite redonk to me at all. :V

As a yoshi user, I'm sure you know all about extending your hurtbox during an attack. *coughfsmashcough*

Stop complaining about Snake's tilts. They're one sided and we've done been learning how to get around them with little issues other than bad timing on our parts / good timing on Snakes. <_>

EDIT: **** man. Past few pages have made me realize how conservative I can be. lmao. That's ****ing weird.

oh no you got it all wrong. I'm not really complaining. I was just trying to help back the Idea that snake's Tilts (up tilt more than anything) are leagues beyond everyone elses. I like snake the way he is. I'm trying to figure a combo into F-Air. I get so close every time but it ends in failure lol.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Snake doesn't need nerfed. He has few combos, but makes up for it with his camping ability. He's still good, but not broken.

 

[JCaesar]

I cant agree with that. Snakes Tilts are just too good for him to not be in the top 10. That and his camping game beats out everyone but R.O.B. An aggressive snake would be hard for a R.O.B. to fight if you ask me. Snake and meta-knight are still the kings of this game if you ask me. With Lucas, Kirby, and Squirtle coming on strong. People just dont want to play Snake and Meta right now. Its a stigma.

No, I assure you, aggressive Snakes get ***** just as hard. If they're dumb enough to approach ROB standing by the edge, they get a bthrow + fair gimp. It's pretty easy.

Snake also gets outcamped by Falco, Olimar, and possibly Pit btw.

Also, Lucas? He's alright, but top 5? o_O

 

[twiblets]

when will the PAL version of the 7-21-2009 set be done? i want to see this crazy new psi magnet!

 

[Plum]

Well let's consider why something like Snake's Utilt has so much ridiculous range:
Hitboxes are all just circles, and Snake has extremely long legs. The vertical hitbox is basically up to his leg, which means in the perfect circle hitboxes Smash uses there is also going to be a hitbox the length of his leg extending horizontally.
If you do lessen its horizontal range then, it also means you are going to have an undesired side effect in which you are lessening its vertical range; there would be an area where his foot/leg are just there with no hitbox and an opponent could float through his leg without getting hit.
There would be a solution in which you move the hitbox upwards so it covers his leg, but now it is also losing coverage from hitting grounded characters.
From there you would probably have to add a hitbox to the move itself to cover each area the move currently does while just lessening its horizontal range.

So somebody either prove me wrong there, or if I'm right you can go ahead and put the work into a nerf on a character that doesn't warrant any sort of nerf just because his tilts are very good.

No, I assure you, aggressive Snakes get ***** just as hard. If they're dumb enough to approach ROB standing by the edge, they get a bthrow + fair gimp. It's pretty easy.

Snake also gets outcamped by Falco, Olimar, and possibly Pit btw.

Also, Lucas? He's alright, but top 5? o_O

Falco? Platforms and just crouching beg to differ in regards to Falco spam. I'll give you Pit and Olimar though. Pit might have more he can do against Snake in B+ than vBrawl, and Olimar is definitely a Snake counter (considering he is the only matchup I've seen Snake mains in vBrawl give a 40:60 against him, and PrOlimar still ***** in B+)

 

[Revven]

when will the PAL version of the 7-21-2009 set be done? i want to see this crazy new psi magnet!

Probably when PK is back in Europe, he's on vacation now in America, meaning no Wii.

 

[VietGeek]

@Plum, so you're saying...Sakurai was lazy? With PSA, we can add hitboxes to any existing bones, thus relieving Snake from suffering "Melee Roy syndrome" even if we do tweak his hitbox sizes a bit. And while you did touch on this...what exactly is the problem? It can't hit shorties at the attack's apex? <_<

I'm on the fence with Mr. Utility Belt, and plan to do so. However I just wanted to point that out. =P

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I'm on the fence with Mr. Utility Belt, and plan to do so. However I just wanted to point that out. =P

Wait! Snake is Batman, now?! He shares similarities to Chuck Norris, but Batman, too?!?!

Anyway, I'm curious how much of PSA the WBR will use for B+. But don't tell me that the next nightly's release got delayed due to the unveiling of PSA to the public (with testing of PSA-enabled changes and such suddenly entering the equation)...