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Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee


guys, get back on topic or this is gonna get closed. now, auto Lcancel lacks depth, therefore, manual.
Depth is when you have options and decision making. There is no options to l canceling. You do it...all the time...like every time....its the only option so there is no depth...

manual L canceling has no options or decision making

manual l cancel=/= depth
 

Starscream

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
636
Location
Burnaby, BC
Because auto is for pansys. I don't see whats so **** hard about pressing a button really. We did it in 64 and Melee and dammit it should be in this one too. 3 keywords: Timing, effort and pressure. Think about it.
L-canceling isn't hard but that doesn't mean it isn't mean ****ty game design. I mean I don't hate L-canceling and I got no problem using it if they fix the timing and not being able to L-cancel during hitlag but that doesn't mean it isn't a stupid concept.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
dude

MARIO ONLY HAS NON LAGGY AERIALS BECAUSE THEY ARE PROGRAMMED TO BE AUTO L CANCELED!!!! SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE NOT OK WITH BEING A HACK FORM BUT ARE OK WITH WITHOUT THE HACKS!!! THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!! WHY IS IT OK THAT MARIO HAS AUTO L CANCELING BUT EVERYONE CAN'T!!

I can't believe I know more about mario than a mario main

you have no idea what your talking about and your points to back up your proof are laughable....
 

NinjaFoxX

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
6,035
Location
Small hole, looks nice though~
l cancel=/= depth
thats like saying tripping adds depth.>,< lol this HAS to be scarcasm, if Lcancel didint add depth it wouldnt even be consirded an AT let alone a code for brawl+.

MARIO ONLY HAS NON LAGGY AERIALS BECAUSE THEY ARE PROGRAMMED TO BE AUTO L CANCELED!!!! SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE NOT OK WITH BEING A HACK FORM BUT ARE OK WITH WITHOUT THE HACKS!!! THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!! WHY IS IT OK THAT MARIO HAS AUTO L CANCELING BUT EVERYONE CAN'T!!
so some mid tier character can auto Lcancel some of his moves, it dosent make him any more skillfull than the one who does it manually(everyone else)
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
thats like saying tripping adds depth.>,< lol this HAS to be scarcasm, if Lcancel didint add depth it wouldnt even be consirded an AT let alone a code for brawl+.
Ah I corrected myself by adding "manual" before it. Manual l canceling does not add anymore depth than auto l canceling does
so some mid tier character can auto Lcancel some of his moves, it dosent make him any more skillfull than the one who does it manually(everyone else)
Im not talking about skill. Marioblaze doesn't like auto l cancel because its for "pansies" yet he is playing a character that has auto canceling. He also said that mario can have auto l canceling (why when he says that auto anything is gay) but other characters can't....why the hell not. So mario deserves auto l canceled moves but ganon or bowser or pit or pika does not. Biased much?
 

Osi

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
580
Location
In a dream
Depth is when you have options and decision making. There is no options to l canceling. You do it...all the time...like every time....its the only option so there is no depth...

manual L canceling has no options or decision making

manual l cancel=/= depth
I agree it doesn't add depth, but more just adds another variable... who will mess up a L cancel first, and will the opponent be good enough to capitalize on the error. I wouldn't really say the fact ALC takes that aspect away takes away depth... but it's more like it just takes away the chance for mistakes (this sounds so similar to depth lol, but I'd say it's not options it's more of not messing up a required manual task). S canceling looks broken sadly too.... I now have manual on and I use my Z button to cancel. It seems to be fine manual using Z as shield and R as grab. Plus I WD with Z, so having it set to shield now lets me WD with Z on grapple characters.
 

Jiangjunizzy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
1,188
Location
irvine, CA
I agree it doesn't add depth, but more just adds another variable... who will mess up a L cancel first, and will the opponent be good enough to capitalize on the error.
I KNOW! ok so since wavedashing makes all other forms of ground movement obsolete, i have an excellent suggestion, lets introduce a new mechanic: spontaenous combustion. due to the newly introduced fast paced movement of brawl it only makes sense the movement of bodies would cause some kind of exothermic reaction. we would give every player a 5% chance they will randomly combust into a firey inferno. that way the insane movements will be balanced and will add dynamic gameplay and a random fun factor!

DUDE LOL U TOTALLY JUST RANDOMLY COMBUSTED DUDE I KNOW LOL I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SMASH U TOO! see! fun for everyone!
10explodingtrips
 

Killer Napalm

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Messages
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kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
I agree it doesn't add depth, but more just adds another variable... who will mess up a L cancel first, and will the opponent be good enough to capitalize on the error. I wouldn't really say the fact ALC takes that aspect away takes away depth... but it's more like it just takes away the chance for mistakes (this sounds so similar to depth lol, but I'd say it's not options it's more of not messing up a required manual task). S canceling looks broken sadly too.... I now have manual on and I use my Z button to cancel. It seems to be fine manual using Z as shield and R as grab. Plus I WD with Z, so having it set to shield now lets me WD with Z on grapple characters.
No one expects someone to miss an l cancel, you assume they will always do it. If part of your punishment game banks on the time to capitalize a missed l cancel, then you will be waiting for a long time.
 

Osi

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
580
Location
In a dream
S cancel forces the user to bring up shield as they land, so you'd only want to use it on some airs since it would actually hurt auto canceled ones right? Then wouldn't ALC with S-Cancel add a bit more depth since the best cancel would depend on situation and the user would have to think about what airs to cancel and what ones to let the ALC just go through on?
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Playing Melee
no. S cancel is a over the top effort to match the OP defense with an OP offense. This has been discussed to a point where ppl see the S cancel is too OP.

You can also jump cancel the shield to spam lagless aerials and with shield stun, this is broken...
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
I think the issue here is that one character having "auto L cancelling" as an attribute is different from all characters having it. And its not even Auto L cancel, its autocancelling, which completellyyyy removes lag as opposed to only halving it.

I don't undrstand the argument that if everyone will be L cancelling anyways, it should be automatic. I would rather be given choice. What if I chose to perform epic mindgames by NOT L cancelling a move, therefore baiting an opponent reaction into his or her doom? Also, there are instances in which L cancelling isn't the best option. Sometimes its best to autocancel, as again, autocancelling removes ALL lag as opposed to just halving it.

Another issue I've seen is that people seem to think that because everyone gets their lag halved, it means its just as beneficial for everyone. This is not true. Lets say MK has 2 frames of landing lag, on his Dair, and Ganon has 20 on his. Now they both get their lag halved, and MKs lag is still superior. But the point is, MK is only getting one frame off. Big woop. Ganon is getting 10. Thats a much bigger difference, and thus L cancelling has a larger benefit for Ganon that for MK.

Another reason I'm at odds with the Auto argument is that there are plenty of techniques out there that everyone perhaps should be doing all the time, but that they don't wether out of personal preference, because theyre too lazy or whatever. Like Doop walking for some chars. As of now, it seems doop walking with marth and link is superior in every way to walking(and even dashing for link, I believe). But they still walk.

Even if its a small, and even stupid choice, I still think the player should have the choice. I don't see how it is just a random mistake variable. It is dependent on the human.

Lets say they wanted to eliminate human error more? How about we add a bit of autoaim to projectiles like Pit's arrows? They should be hitting all the time, but lets add some homing properties just to make sure it hits. Or lets make it so that you have some room for error with missing your moves. Because good players shouldn't be missing anyways, but just to make sure, lets allow it so that you can hit a few instances late and still make damage.

That wouldn't work.

Removing random elements from a game is one thing, removing the need for a human to input a command is another.

EDIT:

To continue my point, what about perfect shields. Should we make them automatic too? Perfect shielding isn't as essential to gameplay as L cancelling would be, but as far as I can tell there isn't a single instant where perfect shielding would be less beneficial than shielding normally. You would expect everyone to perfect shield everything, would you not?

Also, wouldn't L cancelling add some depth because the timing with certain characters is different than others? It's another thing you gotta learn to do well.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
Also, there are instances in which L cancelling isn't the best option. Sometimes its best to autocancel, as again, autocancelling removes ALL lag as opposed to just halving it.
Don't compare auto canceling to l canceling because if you autocancel, then l canceling is not brought in the picture at all. Even with auto l canceling, you are not halving the lag of an autocanceled situation. So please tell me why you wouldn't l cancel in situations that require l canceling?

No. I am not talking about autocanceling. Im talking about auto l canceling and 75 out of 195 moves in the game have this.

Please cite a match where someone purposely chooses not to l cancel for epic mindgames to put them at an advantage or even just to do it.

Don't even think about comparing Doop walking to l canceling...thats just stupid.

Great so MK still doesn't have to worry about l canceling to compete yet Ganon needs to not mess up ever to compete
Removing random elements from a game is one thing, removing the need for a human to input a command is another.
Tripping does not make this game good
To continue my point, what about perfect shields. Should we make them automatic too? Perfect shielding isn't as essential to gameplay as L cancelling would be, but as far as I can tell there isn't a single instant where perfect shielding would be less beneficial than shielding normally. You would expect everyone to perfect shield everything, would you not?
Perfect shielding is already somewhat automatic.
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
No. I am not talking about autocanceling. Im talking about auto l canceling and 75 out of 195 moves in the game have this.
Unless I am gravely mistaken, and please correct me if I am, these moves are autocancelled, not auto "l-cancelled". Auto cancelling completely removes landing lag, like in Sonic's Uair or Ganon's Dair. That's a significant difference. Even with L cancelling, uber laggy moves still have some lag.

Please cite a match where someone purposely chooses not to l cancel for epic mindgames to put them at an advantage or even just to do it.
Hey, I never said it happened. I just said it could happen. As a Sonic main I've come to learn that ANYTHING can be used for epic mindgames, lol. Like purposely missing your opponent to bait a reaction and punish. Its what we do

But fine, I'll use an example with Sonics Uair. Its not exactly a mindgame, but nevertheless shows something. If you use Uair and dont autocancel the landing on the ground, the move comboes into utilt. If I L-cancelled it, it wouldn't work. Shazam.

Don't even think about comparing Doop walking to l canceling...thats just stupid.
Lol, its not nice to call an idea stupid just because you disagree with it. And I wasn't comparing it to L cancelling. Rather pointing out the fact that its superior to walking in virtually every instance for some chars.

Great so MK still doesn't have to worry about l canceling to compete yet Ganon needs to not mess up ever to compete
And yet characters that relied heavily on L cancelling as opposed to others that didn't so much still performed quite well in melee...

One thing that bothers me is that you say that people will be L cancelling all the time, so why not just remove it?

If people will be L cancelling all the time, then why exactly is it hard for Ganon not needing to mess up? Again, there were characters with less landing lag than others on attacks in both melee and 64, yet they all seemed to compete fine, so why is this an issue?

Tripping does not make this game good
I believe you misinterpretted my post? I was saying exactly that. Its fine to remove a random element built into the game, such as tripping. Its a different thing to remove an error of human skill.

Perfect shielding is already somewhat automatic.
Huh? Not at all. Try perfect shielding all the hits of Marth's dancing blade, or of snakes jab, or whatever quick multihit attack. It takes some skill.
 

Alopex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
909
Well debating is boring and actions speak louder than words. You wanna face me too? I got no prob with this. Keep thinkin I'm a scrub and see where it will get you. ;)

And stop pen0r riding, this matter doesn't concern you.
Heh, maybe you should check the first post on page 124 there, bud, where you'll see that I insulted you before leaf and kupo. And even before me you were already insulted. It's pretty clear that everyone on this thread doesn't really care for your opinions or your input.

Look, just go away. You're not contributing anything and you're causing others in the thread to go on tangents just because you want to boost your ego.


There's no point in discussing the L-cancel.

We've discussed this in every single Brawl+ thread there is. If there is someone that STILL doesn't know the arguments for and against it, and STILL doesn't know why auto-L ended up being used, then do a search and read the previous pages.

There's no point in bringing up this topic AGAIN when we could be talking about MANY other things and be far more fruitful.
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
Would just like to say that for the record, I am not really for or against Auto L cancel. I actually probably lean slightly towards ALC. I just felt I should argue some misconceptions.
 

Alopex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
909
But fine, I'll use an example with Sonics Uair. Its not exactly a mindgame, but nevertheless shows something. If you use Uair and dont autocancel the landing on the ground, the move comboes into utilt. If I L-cancelled it, it wouldn't work. Shazam.
If it combos with lag, then it combos without lag.

If you don't auto-cancel the Uair, that means you're landing with lag. Which means that the "combo setup" you're referring to is the exact same "setup" Marioblaze refered to with his Mario.

Essentially, you're relying on the lag to time the combo for you.

You could still pull off that exact same combo if you auto-canceled the Uair, you would just have to time it yourself.

Just because the auto-cancel lets you use your Utilt sooner than you want to after your Uair, it doesn't mean you have to input the Utilt right away. Just work on your timing. Wait the slight millisecond necessary and THEN use the Utilt. The auto-canceled Uair just gives you more freedom after the Uair. You can choose to attempt the combo with the Utilt, or you have the lagless freedom to try something else, like a mind game.

I repeat, there is NOTHING you can do WITH lag that you can't do WITHOUT lag. Just practice timing.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
WHOAMG look what came out!

Code:
Hold SHIELD for Independent Pokemon +no wreck My Music [spunit262]
06407BD0 0000000E
04030F0D 1E1B1F1B
201B211B 221B0000
046847C4 60000000
C268482C 00000003
3800003F 981400B8
2C1D0003 40A20008
3BA00004 00000000
C2684964 00000007
881400B8 2C00003F
40A20088 2C03001D
40A20008 3860001E
2C03001F 40A20008
38600020 2C030021
40A20008 38600022
987400B8 00000000
Now we seriously have some options for PT users! Either use PW's codes or use this one (which allows both normal PT and Independent but, without the switching options).
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
If it combos with lag, then it combos without lag.

If you don't auto-cancel the Uair, that means you're landing with lag. Which means that the "combo setup" you're referring to is the exact same "setup" Marioblaze refered to with his Mario.

Essentially, you're relying on the lag to time the combo for you.

You could still pull off that exact same combo if you auto-canceled the Uair, you would just have to time it yourself.

Just because the auto-cancel lets you use your Utilt sooner than you want to after your Uair, it doesn't mean you have to input the Utilt right away. Just work on your timing. Wait the slight millisecond necessary and THEN use the Utilt. The auto-canceled Uair just gives you more freedom after the Uair. You can choose to attempt the combo with the Utilt, or you have the lagless freedom to try something else, like a mind game.

I repeat, there is NOTHING you can do WITH lag that you can't do WITHOUT lag. Just practice timing.
Agreed. I realized this a while after I wrote my post, but was too busy reading other threads to edit it.
 

Alopex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
909
Now we seriously have some options for PT users! Either use PW's codes or use this one (which allows both normal PT and Independent but, without the switching options).
I still prefer the PW code.

I mean, what exactly does the Switchable PT have that Zelda/Sheik don't have that justifies the Switchable PT needing fatigue for balance? One more character choice? What a misconception.

The tally of Switchable PT drawbacks is huge. Removing fatigue and allowing switching is actually what balances the character to the Zelda/Sheik level.

-Zelda/Sheik maintain respawn invincibility after transformation, allowing safe transformation post stock loss. PT can't swap until after invincibility is gone.
-Zelda/Sheik can transform in the air, allowing for vastly safer transform options compared to the PT's extremely punishable ground-restricted swap.
-The PT is forced to swap upon lost stock, potentially forcing a terrible match-up. Not so for Zelda/Sheik.
-The PT has fatigue.

That's the PT. Why would we want to keep that character like that?
PW's code removes the last two issues on that list, making the character exponentially more viable, while still keeping the first two drawbacks in order to balance out the fact that the character is 3 fighters. And in the process it allows individual Pokemon use as well if you never swap.

How can anyone justify keeping that original PT, with those 4 huge drawbacks, as a "balance choice"?

PW's code is the ideal PT code. I really don't see why it's not just made standard and end the story.
 

Almas

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,588
Bombsoldier vs Ken (JGT) Round 4

~20 seconds, bombsoldier is performing a combo on Ken. He attempts to break it with a DAir, which hits, but he fails the L-cancel and as a result ends up losing the stock. Though Bombsoldier didn't anticipate the failed L-cancel, he was able to punish it.

That said, I still think that ALC is more appropriate for Brawl, because of the overwhelming number of autocancelled aerials. But it certainly did add something in melee - even the best players aren't perfect.
 

MBlaze

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dude

MARIO ONLY HAS NON LAGGY AERIALS BECAUSE THEY ARE PROGRAMMED TO BE AUTO L CANCELED!!!! SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE NOT OK WITH BEING A HACK FORM BUT ARE OK WITH WITHOUT THE HACKS!!! THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!! WHY IS IT OK THAT MARIO HAS AUTO L CANCELING BUT EVERYONE CAN'T!!

I can't believe I know more about mario than a mario main

you have no idea what your talking about and your points to back up your proof are laughable....
I'm taking about the code itself, not characters that have it. :| Like I said before, give my main a glide just because Mk has one is just like saying give Ganon and Bowser auto l cancelling just because they don't have it. It's a ******** idea, everyone has their differences. Mario doesn't have a lot of range or priority, you gonnna give it to him because Dk does?


Alopex: Lol and you not reading that I was trolling, and how is this boosting my ego? Just trying to not let depth fly out the window... :/
 

Dark Sonic

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Do people not realize that auto canceling and L-canceling are not related...at all?
Do they realize that automatic L-canceling does not affect auto canceling? L-canceling serves as nothing more than a small technical barrier, as it's relatively easy to time and should be done every single time that you have the option to.

Whether or not a technical barrier is a good thing is pretty much opinion though. (I believe it's a good thing, but I'm tired of seeing stupid arguements)
 

Revven

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Alopex: Lol and you not reading that I was trolling, and how is this boosting my ego? Just trying to not let depth fly out the window... :/
It's a false sense of depth. Look, we're already separating ourselves from the Brawl community as well as casuals. Why should we feel the need to separate ourselves even further when we are already separated enough by having to "make" Brawl+? Manual L-Canceling is artificial depth. Sure, the extra push of a button that nobody besides us knows about is depth but, not true depth. True depth comes from how you utilize the L-Cancel.

There's no other way to PRESS that button, where's the depth in pressing it? You just press it, that's it. Auto L-Canceling achieves the same effects, you just don't press that button. It gives you the same amount of depth as manual L-Canceling. Nothing will change from it, Mario's Uair won't suddenly become what you want it to be. If you want to not L-Cancel to utilize his double Uair, then you don't know how L-Canceling should be used. Mario having virtually no lag on the second Uair would be amazing, I don't see WHY you're advocating manual when all it is is artificial depth, you're just pressing a button, is it that orgasmic?

L-Canceling was put in by the developers for depth in Melee. Not just because it was a button press, because it allowed for more combos. Combos IS the depth coming from L-Canceling, it shouldn't matter how it is achieved, be it button press or automatically done for you. It is the SAME result either way, it just depends on how you utilize it and that is where the true depth comes from.

Your argument for pressing a button adds depth is silly because that button press isn't what adds the depth, it is the user. There is not one time you will not want to L-Cancel, I played Melee for years and not once did I choose not to L-Cancel. It is ridiculous to say "I want lag!" You shouldn't want that, you want NO lag so you can connect aerials into your ground moves back into aerials, L-Canceling is what connects those together and creates the combos. Auto L-Canceling achieves the exact same results manual would, I cannot stress that enough to you.
 

MBlaze

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It's a false sense of depth. Look, we're already separating ourselves from the Brawl community as well as casuals. Why should we feel the need to separate ourselves even further when we are already separated enough by having to "make" Brawl+? Manual L-Canceling is artificial depth. Sure, the extra push of a button that nobody besides us knows about is depth but, not true depth. True depth comes from how you utilize the L-Cancel.

There's no other way to PRESS that button, where's the depth in pressing it? You just press it, that's it. Auto L-Canceling achieves the same effects, you just don't press that button. It gives you the same amount of depth as manual L-Canceling. Nothing will change from it, Mario's Uair won't suddenly become what you want it to be. If you want to not L-Cancel to utilize his double Uair, then you don't know how L-Canceling should be used. Mario having virtually no lag on the second Uair would be amazing, I don't see WHY you're advocating manual when all it is is artificial depth, you're just pressing a button, is it that orgasmic?

L-Canceling was put in by the developers for depth in Melee. Not just because it was a button press, because it allowed for more combos. Combos IS the depth coming from L-Canceling, it shouldn't matter how it is achieved, be it button press or automatically done for you. It is the SAME result either way, it just depends on how you utilize it and that is where the true depth comes from.

Your argument for pressing a button adds depth is silly because that button press isn't what adds the depth, it is the user. There is not one time you will not want to L-Cancel, I played Melee for years and not once did I choose not to L-Cancel. It is ridiculous to say "I want lag!" You shouldn't want that, you want NO lag so you can connect aerials into your ground moves back into aerials, L-Canceling is what connects those together and creates the combos. Auto L-Canceling achieves the exact same results manual would, I cannot stress that enough to you.
Meh w/e then, I personally don't like auto anything. But since everyone is in favor of the idea of having the game do something for you, who am I to argue.
 

Problem2

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I no longer think that there is winnable argument for manual L-cancelers. However, using MLC won't hurt anything, even if ALC becomes tournament standard. It's not like it's really an adjustment to get use to the game doing something for you.
 

Rebel581

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I KNOW! ok so since wavedashing makes all other forms of ground movement obsolete, i have an excellent suggestion, lets introduce a new mechanic: spontaenous combustion. due to the newly introduced fast paced movement of brawl it only makes sense the movement of bodies would cause some kind of exothermic reaction. we would give every player a 5% chance they will randomly combust into a firey inferno. that way the insane movements will be balanced and will add dynamic gameplay and a random fun factor!

DUDE LOL U TOTALLY JUST RANDOMLY COMBUSTED DUDE I KNOW LOL I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SMASH U TOO! see! fun for everyone!
Wait... is it possible to get a code for exploding trips? That sounds incredibly funny. I request that anybody who knows what they're doing making these codes immediately find out how to make you explode when you trip. That way I can turn it on, turn the tripping variable higher, and watch tons of explosions. Maybe play through some Classic mode with tripping on 100%.
 

trojanpooh

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I don't know if this is plausible but is there any way to just flat out increase the speed of your characters movement? Think lightning brawl but you can adjust how much faster you go. Also, how about weakening Stage hazards so more stages are legal? I tried increasing atk and def ratios proportionally but for some reason B^ attacks OHKO for some characters. In the end they may not be used but the more options the better.
 

kupo15

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Unless I am gravely mistaken, and please correct me if I am, these moves are autocancelled, not auto "l-cancelled". Auto cancelling completely removes landing lag, like in Sonic's Uair or Ganon's Dair. That's a significant difference. Even with L cancelling, uber laggy moves still have some lag.
They are completely different. Ganon's Dair is auto canceled in a short hop but if you miss your timing, you get huge lag because its not auto l canceled.

The title is very wrong btw
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169171
Huh? Not at all. Try perfect shielding all the hits of Marth's dancing blade, or of snakes jab, or whatever quick multihit attack. It takes some skill.
I didn't say it was completely automatic, but it IS somewhat automatic. I can't count the number of perfect shields I've done without meaning too.
I believe you misinterpretted my post? I was saying exactly that. Its fine to remove a random element built into the game, such as tripping. Its a different thing to remove an error of human skill.
And how much human error will actually contribute towards making this a better game when 75 moves have no human error involved? So its like, "player A, you are allowed to have no human error in l canceling but player B, you have human error in l canceling"

And yes, I was being smart because it was 4:30 AM and I have been refuting stupid points all night.

And it seems like all the anti ALC points have been disproved yet again so I don't need to answer the posts I missed...wonderful!
 

Kyd

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moving on....

Has anyone tried playing doubles matches on Brawl+ yet? I would but I have nobody around who plays Brawl+ and I wanna know about good team setups and what not.
 

Heavyarms2050

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We have to have auto L-cancel for the people who can't use the triggers at all. And I'm talking about the physically disable people. Look at this match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txAjpeo4Dqw

This guy, who goes by the name of Broly, I saw him played in a melee tournament. He cant press the trigger at all because he that disabled. He can't shield or L-cancel. Thus he can only play Marth because he the only charcter with the least aerial lag and use his counter for shielding. By incorporating L-cancel, people like Broly and many other may have a chance to play with different characters
 

Kix

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I've always thought of L cancel rewarding a person for precision. If it's that easy to do in Brawl+ I guess it technically doesn't matter. Don't some characters have attacks that hit when they hit the ground? Does L cancel remove these?
 

kupo15

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I've always thought of L cancel rewarding a person for precision. If it's that easy to do in Brawl+ I guess it technically doesn't matter. Don't some characters have attacks that hit when they hit the ground? Does L cancel remove these?
It does not affect specials so ganon and falcon's down b are not effected. It only affect the five a moves done in the air. And there is no rewarding for precision when some characters don't have to l cancel because there moves are already l canceled....

I feel like a broken record :ohwell:
 

Starscream

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They are completely different. Ganon's Dair is auto canceled in a short hop but if you miss your timing, you get huge lag because its not auto l canceled.
Which you can then L-cancel or have the landing lag reduced by half by default AKA "auto L-canceling" if you miss the auto cancel timing. Just saying...

It's not like you can SHFFL auto canceled aerials either. Just throwing that out there as well...

Which is another reason why I want shorter short hops, auto canceled aerials are pretty lame. Doesn't get rid of them all, but some moves just end more quickly than others like Marth's fair.

Auto canceling is lame, boring and slow, SHFLLing is fast and fun weather or not we have L-canceling or default landing lag reduced by half; which by the way is what I'm going to call "auto L-canceling" now because the game isn't auto doing anything for you. We merely decreased the landing lag for all aerials by half, there is no auto anything involved.

We have to have auto L-cancel for the people who can't use the triggers at all. And I'm talking about the physically disable people. Look at this match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txAjpeo4Dqw

This guy, who goes by the name of Broly, I saw him played in a melee tournament. He cant press the trigger at all because he that disabled. He can't shield or L-cancel. Thus he can only play Marth because he the only charcter with the least aerial lag and use his counter for shielding. By incorporating L-cancel, people like Broly and many other may have a chance to play with different characters
May have been problematic in Melee but not in Brawl. Map shield to one of the 4 face buttons, problem solved.
 

Kix

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It does not affect specials so ganon and falcon's down b are not effected. It only affect the five a moves done in the air. And there is no rewarding for precision when some characters don't have to l cancel because there moves are already l canceled....

I feel like a broken record :ohwell:
So if you don't need to do it for some the others do not count as precision? How lenient is the timing for the cancel? Pretty close to Melee?

I was actually thinking of maybe G&W, Kirby, Bowser and Mario's Dair when they hit the ground. For instance, the hit when they hit the ground, does it cancel before the move comes out? I don't remember if Mario's Dair hits if you land it when he spins, or if Kirby does the twist kick at the end like in Melee, when G&W slams the key down after he lands. Does the move still come out and then the L cancel happens?

I guess if it canceled these moves and people wanted to use them for whatever reason that might be a reason to keep MLC?
 

Heavyarms2050

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May have been problematic in Melee but not in Brawl. Map shield to one of the 4 face buttons, problem solved.
Broly can't fully utilize both his hands. He wiggles her left arm to move the charter, wiggles his right thumb on the C-stick, and use this chin for the B-button. For crying out loud, he lays down on the those large dragging cart you see in Home Depo.
 
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