Boxob's super important incredible edible mind games thread.

[Tenki]

Hm...so I guess we can treat this thread like Tenki's pop quiz thread? Well, I have a scenario of my own.

YOU'RE Sonic.
Hanging from the ledge and your opponent is standing right outside the range of your roll. If you roll, you will be punished.

What should you do? I personally think the "comeback/get-up attack" would fail here, simply because if he/she is outside the roll range, the attack will miss and you will be punished.

I was thinking maybe fall down, SideB "roll over" the edge approach, or perhaps try to reverse SideB (falling) and bair if opponent approaches.

Discuss?

Do something that will either:
A) give great distance between you and your opponent
B) get you in a standing (and shieldable) state as soon as possible.

for A, you can try doing a spring either straight from the ledge, or double jumping away from the stage and using spring. If you're high above the stage, you can use Sonic's max airspeed to project a path as though you were going to land far ahead of your opponent, but at about full hop/double jump height, change directions. If they try to attack you from below, you can try using D-air's stall time to make them miss, while either counterattacking or getting to the floor. If there's space and they aren't guarding the path, you can try doing a ledgejump > ASC > double jump when needed. Maybe even ledgejump > spinshot.

for B, you can do things ranging from a down+double jump from ledge, aimed to land on the edge of the stage, or just doing a normal getup (press towards stage, is it?)

You have to mix up your ledge actions. None of these are really guaranteed for Sonic lol.

 

[aeghrur]

For Tenki's question:
I wait. If he cancels, idc, it's neutral.
If he Side-Bs, I punish by either grabbing him out of the roll or out-prioritizing it.
If he VSDJs, I camp the landing point.
If he VSDJs+springs, I predict and punish accordingly.

Of course, if I have a character with good acceleration/airspeed, I would jump over and watch his action. If he vsdj's, I punish the ending as with the good acceleration, I should make it past. If he Side Bs, I stand and lol for a bit, then shield and punish. If he cancels, I either grab, jump to the other side, or attack.

 

[Tenki]

For Tenki's question:
I wait. If he cancels, idc, it's neutral.
If he Side-Bs, I punish by either grabbing him out of the roll or out-prioritizing it.
If he VSDJs, I camp the landing point.
If he VSDJs+springs, I predict and punish accordingly.

Of course, if I have a character with good acceleration/airspeed, I would jump over and watch his action. If he vsdj's, I punish the ending as with the good acceleration, I should make it past. If he Side Bs, I stand and lol for a bit, then shield and punish. If he cancels, I either grab, jump to the other side, or attack.

You forgot about VSDJ > DJ.

How do you punish VSDJ's ending if it doesn't really have one in the first place? VSDJ is as 'neutral fall state' as Sonic can be - he can still airdodge, double jump, or attack at any point o_O; - well, except for the beginning (double jump), but that doesn't really make much of a difference, since double jumps are usually used to throw off landing campers.

He can also spinshot.

:l

 

[aeghrur]

You forgot about VSDJ > DJ.

How do you punish VSDJ's ending if it doesn't really have one in the first place? VSDJ is as 'neutral fall state' as Sonic can be - he can still airdodge, double jump, or attack at any point o_O; - well, except for the beginning (double jump), but that doesn't really make much of a difference, since double jumps are usually used to throw off landing campers.

He can also spinshot.

:l

Ah crap. Right.
Then lemme add on:
If he spinshots, we're neutral again and hopefully, I'm a character with a projectile or longer than sonic range so it's more toward my advantage.
If he VSDJs, I can camp the landing point, or close to it anyhow, or even attack from the front so as to out-prioritize it. If he double jumps, I can weave(hopefully) with my double jump if I'm in the air to space, I can run and aerial, run and up smash, camp near the new landing spot, etc.

 

[B%B]

Er, who changed the title from crap to stuff?

The word crap isn't censored for a reason.

Crap.

 

[da K.I.D.]

really common situation

Spring.

holy crap, boxob IS a good sonic

Depends on what character I'm facing. I'm going to go so low and so close that I get grab gimped.

Another good option would be to travel to the other side of the stage, underneath it.

HOLY CRAP THIS KID IS AMAZING
ive been doing this since april, and im glad others do it too, im tempted to name it the KID recovery.

Do something that will either:
A) give great distance between you and your opponent
B) get you in a standing (and shieldable) state as soon as possible.

for A, you can try doing a spring either straight from the ledge, or double jumping away from the stage and using spring. If you're high above the stage, you can use Sonic's max airspeed to project a path as though you were going to land far ahead of your opponent, but at about full hop/double jump height, change directions. If they try to attack you from below, you can try using D-air's stall time to make them miss, while either counterattacking or getting to the floor. If there's space and they aren't guarding the path, you can try doing a ledgejump > ASC > double jump when needed. Maybe even ledgejump > spinshot.

for B, you can do things ranging from a down+double jump from ledge, aimed to land on the edge of the stage, or just doing a normal getup (press towards stage, is it?)

You have to mix up your ledge actions. None of these are really guaranteed for Sonic lol.

this is what seperates the sonic mainers from the sonic players...

 

[Kitamerby]

err..

if you were using another character and a Sonic player starts charging side-B just outside of your attack range, what would you, the non-Sonic do?

Downtilt. Over and over again. Just keep spamming that Dtilt.

 

[Tenki]

Downtilt. Over and over again. Just keep spamming that Dtilt.

Oh yeah, I guess standing still and spamming D-tilt works

if you're metaknight



lol 10sbrjokes

 

[thecatinthehat]

HOLY CRAP THIS KID IS AMAZING
ive been doing this since april, and im glad others do it too, im tempted to name it the KID recovery.

Wut? I used to always do this.
I've never seen you mention it....

 

[da K.I.D.]

i wasnt the one to come up with it but i use it more than anybody else

 

[aeghrur]

It's true, KID does do/talk about the under-the-stage thing a lot.
Btw, Falco can go under and around hyrule castle without touching land after jumping.
So can sonic.

 

[Espy Rose]

I use to recover like that too, like, once or twice every large chunk of matches. It's cool, but if you're playing a faster character, definately not something advisable.

Especially against MK.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you are good at it, it works vs everyone

out of every time ive ever done it, ive only been punished for it once, and that was when i did it like 10 times in one game against kirk just to prove a point, and one time he spiked me out of it, but other than that, you shouldnt use it enough to get punished and its hard to punish anyway

 

[Tenki]

Wait, are you talking about ledgehopping and then spring, or dropping low first then using spring so you're near the edge when you land?

 

[B%B]

Wait, are you talking about ledgehopping and then spring, or dropping low first then using spring so you're near the edge when you land?

They're talking about traveling underneath the stage in the hopes that they position themselves differently on the other side so you can make it back safe.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you airdodge right it looks similar to when yoshi airdodges his second jump

 

[B%B]

if you airdodge right it looks similar to when yoshi airdodges his second jump

Brilliance.

I'll implement this next time I'm in a tourney match. I'll be all *jump and airdodge at the same time almost* and M2K will be like "****, I though you were Yoshi for a second."

 

[infomon]

lolol

KID: I do the understage travelling a bunch, especially on Battlefield, but sometimes on FD too. In real matches, srsly... I rarely get punished for it. Unless it's on Lylat, where I always miss that stupid gimpy edge

On Battlefield it's awesome because you can walljump off the crystal on the bottom, so you can fake-out moving to the opposite side. This has worked for me a bunch, lol.

 

[Tenki]

They're talking about traveling underneath the stage in the hopes that they position themselves differently on the other side so you can make it back safe.

lol when you have people watching you in-tourney who've never seen Sonic played before, pull that off and they'll cheer for you.

`__`;



my friends have seen me do it enough times that when I start to do it, the ones watching start cheering.



...for the other guy so he can stage spike me D:

 

[Napilopez]

lol when you have people watching you in-tourney who've never seen Sonic played before, pull that off and they'll cheer for you.

`__`;



my friends have seen me do it enough times that when I start to do it, the ones watching start cheering.



...for the other guy so he can stage spike me D:

lolasooo.

Its pretty hard to punish if used appropriately ^_^.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lylat does gay me that way sometimes, i just have to make sure i travel extra far before trying to come up...

 

[memphischains]

lylat is sonic's worst stage imo

 

[Tenki]

lolasooo.

Its pretty hard to punish if used appropriately ^_^.

Whenever they got a stagespike on me, it was usually because I screwed up and had to go for a walljump.

XD don't screw up and you should be fine.

 

[SonicX580]

lylat is sonic's worst stage imo

Actually memphis you're right lylat titles around messing up Sonic recovery and his game so I think so.

 

[Napilopez]

Actually memphis you're right lylat titles around messing up Sonic recovery and his game so I think so.

Actually SonicX580 i disagree with you because I think lylat also makes it easy for sonic gimping other characters and also platforms help his uair a usmash a lot so i think sonic does well on lylat because of this and his worst stage is pictochat because the stage changes alot and it is annoying for sonic running and sideb cancel.


=P

 

[infomon]

rofl at what u did thar

Is pictochat really worse for Sonic than Jungle Japes?

 

[da K.I.D.]

pictochat is by far sonics worst stage,
lots of people hate lylat, but it really isnt that bad if you just learn the stage.

in jungle japes forward smash can kill under 100 on the sides and back throw can actually kill there.

sonics choice of stages is much more dependant on the other characters strengths and weaknesses. but pictochat is always his worst just because the place is so effing big that he can never kill anything

p.s. MC sucks, always CP him on lylat

 

[TwinkleToes]

pictochat is by far sonics worst stage,
lots of people hate lylat, but it really isnt that bad if you just learn the stage.

in jungle japes forward smash can kill under 100 on the sides and back throw can actually kill there.

sonics choice of stages is much more dependant on the other characters strengths and weaknesses. but pictochat is always his worst just because the place is so effing big that he can never kill anything

p.s. MC sucks, always CP him on lylat

Take advantage of pictochat's shallow bottom by getting all u-spike kills.

 

[memphischains]

Pictochat is not a bad stage for Sonic.
You all must have no idea what you're doing.

(including counter picks)
Top 5 Best Stages:
FD
Smashville
Frigate
PS2
Yoshi

Worst 5:
Lylat
Distant
Onett
Halberd (yes, its true)
Castle (eh)

But this isn't the stage discussion now is it.
We should get back on topic

 

[da K.I.D.]

are you high?

 

[B%B]

Why is GG's not on your list, scrubychains?

 

[Tenki]

it's banned ..?

 

[Camalange]

Isn't Pictochat banned too?

 

[infomon]

Pictochat is an SBR counterpick.

But it's banned in my town :/

 

[aeghrur]

it's banned ..?

It's only banned in Umbreon's version of the SBR rules.

 

[da K.I.D.]

all TOs have different rulesets,
picto and GG are both on the can be banned or counter pick list

both are legal in my area.

either way, that list is terribad

 

[Espy Rose]

Isn't Pictochat a bad stage for Sonic?

It seems way to big for any early KOs to take place.
I dunno, I don't play on it too often, since it's banned here.

Although Green Greens isn't :D

 

[da K.I.D.]

exactly

picto is way too big for ANY sonic KOs to take place

 

[Tenki]

But then there's more room and space for you to cancel your own death with an aerial> side-B combo lol.

and the sides+some 'stages' of Pictochat give you invincible SDR's and airdash, etc.

 

[Napilopez]

and the sides+some 'stages' of Pictochat give you invincible SDR's and airdash, etc.

Problem with that is that half the time its useless since theres so many obstacles on stage D:

On a slightly related note, I've finally been able to start putting the beat down on olimar by CPing yoshi's island. Normally I reallyyyy don't like that stage for some reason, but I decided to give the iSDR a try, and my god did the whol matchup change for me. I was spamming sideB from the sides like crazy, and no longer being grabbed out of my approaches :D after that, I'd get him into the air with SDJ combos, with which i could quite easily pwn him. Platform can also help with roll off ASCs sometimes.

Edit: Oh, and castle siege is too good for Sonic, ^_^. The first stage is easy to get stage spikes on, and uneven territory makes it easy to avod projectiles and hit with SR and whatnot. The second stage is a part with Side KOs. Bthrow>chase>Dthrow/pivot bthrow is too good. Same with Dthrow techchases. the big statue dude can also help you refresh moves if so you need. The last stage has a weird spike on D3 if you use dthrow on the at least the right edge, and its like a smashville sized FD, so Sonic does well.