Bowser's movement capabilities

Baby_Sneak

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#1
Hey guys, Zard/ROB main here.

I was messing with bowser a little while ago, and I came across two very important things in regards to his running characteristics:

His turnaround animation is SUUUUPER short (like Zard) and his skid animation is SUUUUUPER short (like Zard)

What this means is he can practically do every ground attack out of his run, have deadlier mixups, better defensive options, and better neutral when utilizing this trait of him. I'm prolly saying nuthin new here (obviously you guys study your character), but I've haven't seen anyone really talk about it in the competitive discussion in regards to bowser's strengths (or Zard's strengths).

If you DON'T know what I am talking about (this is unlikely), just go in training mode and RUN, don't dash. Let go of the control stick when you're running and do a jab. You'll see that bowser waits NO TIME to jab right out of his run. You can do any ground attack out of this thing, it's great.
 

Broham

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#2
The reason it isn't talked about much is because any character can do the Run-->jab by extended dash dancing.

With Bowser it simplifies the process but the end result is the same.
 

Baby_Sneak

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#3
The reason it isn't talked about much is because any character can do the Run-->jab by extended dash dancing.

With Bowser it simplifies the process but the end result is the same.
Oh no it's not

Other characters need to be pivoting for it to happen, because it's impossible during the dash, and stopping dash/run results in lag for most characters, but not bowser or Zard

bowser doesn't need to do extended dash dancing. His is more applicable. His runstop animation ends extremely fast.
 

Astra_

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#4
You'll see that bowser waits NO TIME to jab right out of his run. You can do any ground attack out of this thing, it's great.
Just because Bowser is able to do this it doesn't mean it gives him a great advantage. It all depends on the receiving of the attack too and what they do to counter/dodge the attack.
 

Baby_Sneak

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#5
Just because Bowser is able to do this it doesn't mean it gives him a great advantage. It all depends on the receiving of the attack too and what they do to counter/dodge the attack.
It's not just jab though. It's every attack. And though it's not a ridiculous advantage, it's an advantage A LOT of characters would greatly appreciate if they had this (like marth........ imagine him being able to Ftilt nigh-directly out of a run).
 

Astra_

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#6
Many Fire Emblem Characters can dash multiple times (dash dance?) such as Marth and Lucina allowing them to dash multiple times and attack. This allows players to create combos with these characters.
 

Baby_Sneak

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#7
Many Fire Emblem Characters can dash multiple times (dash dance?) such as Marth and Lucina allowing them to dash multiple times and attack. This allows players to create combos with these characters.
You're not understanding what I'm talking about though. This is out of a run and turnaround. Dashes are limited by themselves. You have to commit and input very precise movements to make it fluid. Bowser can do that without as nearly as much finess.
 

Broham

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#8
Oh no it's not

Other characters need to be pivoting for it to happen, because it's impossible during the dash, and stopping dash/run results in lag for most characters, but not bowser or Zard

bowser doesn't need to do extended dash dancing. His is more applicable. His runstop animation ends extremely fast.
yeah.... other characters need to be pivoting.,..

that's why they use extended dash dancing; extended dash dancing allows for pivots to be done in an almost identical fashion to Bowser's Dash--> jab
 

Baby_Sneak

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#9
yeah.... other characters need to be pivoting.,..

that's why they use extended dash dancing; extended dash dancing allows for pivots to be done in an almost identical fashion to Bowser's Dash--> jab

So what you're saying is that marth can run at his opponent, do a dash dance back,and Ftilt his opponent? See, that highlights what I'm talking about. Marth can't do that, he'll have to fox trot across the stage for it to happen (one of the requirements as said in the video) and then finess the stick really well in order to go from Smashing the stick to do a extended dash dance to slightly tilting the stick back toward his opponent to get a Ftilt. That's some technical finess that's easily done with bowser though. Bowser just has to run, stop, then input Ftilt. Easy asf. Extended dash dancing is limited by the fact that you'll have to practice for an extended amount of time before it becomes real muscle memory to just fox trot out of w/e, you have to commit into fox trots in the first place. Also, you're vulnerable for the intial dash frames, which can be a lot depending on the character.

As I said below:

You're not understanding what. I'm talking about though. This is out of a run and turnaround. Dashes are limited by themselves. You have to commit and input very precise movements to make it fluid. Bowser can do that without as nearly as much finess.
 

Broham

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#10

So what you're saying is that marth can run at his opponent, do a dash dance back,and Ftilt his opponent? See, that highlights what I'm talking about. Marth can't do that, he'll have to fox trot across the stage for it to happen (one of the requirements as said in the video) and then finess the stick really well in order to go from Smashing the stick to do a extended dash dance to slightly tilting the stick back toward his opponent to get a Ftilt. That's some technical finess that's easily done with bowser though. Bowser just has to run, stop, then input Ftilt. Easy asf. Extended dash dancing is limited by the fact that you'll have to practice for an extended amount of time before it becomes real muscle memory to just fox trot out of w/e, you have to commit into fox trots in the first place. Also, you're vulnerable for the intial dash frames, which can be a lot depending on the character.

As I said below:
You just agreed with me that it's hard to do the same thing your tech does with other characters...

I said in my second post that other characters could recreate the same effect via extended dash dancing; You went in depth in your latest post as with

he'll have to fox trot across the stage for it to happen (one of the requirements as said in the video) and then finess the stick really well in order to go from Smashing the stick to do a extended dash dance to slightly tilting the stick back toward his opponent to get a Ftilt.
:
At any level of play, anyone could practice the inputs with their character to gain the same smooth effect that Bowser gets.
It is a fact that the practice put into recreating the tech with non-bowser characters would render the bowser tech almost invalid due to it not being a huge advantage if someone else can do the same thing.

Keep in mind how many inputs melee and project M players do when they are playing. If a melee/project M player heads to smash 4... it's more likely that they'll be able to do this "hard" tech with characters not named bowser.

The main place where your tech would apply would be in low-level/for glory play, Whereas doing this tech with Shiek Ftilt at TOP level play might allow opportunities such as a kill on characters her player might not have been able to deal with quite as easily as before.

Say Bowser does this tech:
Bowser Vs Diddy:
3,2,1, GO!!!
Diddy grabs banana
Bowser dashes and reads Diddy's banana throw by punishing with a dash-->jab
Diddy takes 11%
Diddy is now offstage on the upper part of screen.
END EXAMPLE
In that example all that happened that was good for bowser was the offstage status of Diddy...Had the bowser stayed put and done a Jab on the banana ONLY he could have punished Diddy with a grab because of the banana-jab clash.

Now say Fox does this tech:
Fox vs Rosaluma:
3,2,1, GO!!!
Fox and Rosa are testing eachother in neutral
Fox decides to test Rosa with some lazers
Rosa uses down B and collects the lazers
Rosa stays at opposite of fox on the stage
Fox does the dash dance and gets an Up-Tilt off on Rosa and he hit Luma offstage
Fox Combos Rosa for 30% AND she ends up offstage
END EXAMPLE

The fact that all the top tier characters get more use out of this tech than what Bowser can makes the tech a very good find for sure.
Problem is that it's not Bowser specific but he can do the whole thing a HELL-of a lot easier than what every other character can thanks to this tech being built-in to his kit, essentially.
 
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