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Bowser VS Fox [WIP]

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
Offense (slight % advantage or worse)
Due to Fox’s laser game Bowser has to take the initiative to approach. Don’t be afraid to get hit by them if it means you can hit Fox back, but don’t ignore them either. Use short hop airdodges and platforms to close in on Fox. To help you read the opponent and predict his options later, start by getting into his dash attack range and shield and see what he does.
- If he phantasms, after shielding run after him and klaw him
- If he runs in to dash attack you or grab you, jab or klaw him (ground version)
- If he tries to use his Down Air shield it and grab him
- If he keeps on short hop lasering or starts walking to space his tilts or whatever, short hop and klaw him, be sure to buffer something in case it misses, like jump, shield or jab.

Since Fox’s range isn’t that good, you can always default to short hop klaws and jab as your most reliable options. Don’t forget to mix in other options stuff too if they’re viable, like short hop airdodge past him into fortress/klaw, or FTilt if you catch him while he’s landing. KingKong managed to sneak in a Bomb that jumped over Fox’s short hop DAir for example.

When you’re airborne and falling don’t rely too much on klaw to approach Fox because he can beat it with Fair if he has enough time to react.

If you go after Fox when he is airborne with Fair or UAir make sure to space your attacks so they hit even if Fox stalls with his shine.

When Fox is on a platform go for a dashing USmash and start preemptively SDI’ing with your control stick away from Fox so he you can escape his DAir if you miss or get blocked. In case you hit, check the options listed 2 sections below.

Once you hit 95%, start expecting him to Up Smash at any given opening so try to DI away during the animation of your attacks when you approach. Depending on the player your facing you may or may not want to start playing more safely. Playing safe gives him more room to laser you but keeps you from dying too early and can net you more hits on a Up Smash hungry Fox.

If you catch Fox offstage or in the water, try to use firebreath as he is particularly susceptible to it. If your timing is amazing you can try to tap firebreath so it interrupts his recovery move, allowing you to easily edgehog him (and ledge hop klaw him if he still makes it back).

Defense (sizeable % advantage or better)

When hitting
Talk about grab release and klaw follow-ups, firebreath and uthrow/usmash?

When getting hit
How to SDI multiple hit moves and DI kill moves

Stages
What stages to srtike/ban/counterpick and why

[collapse="Notes"]Frame advantage of Fox's DAir on hit: Percent divided by 10 (rounded up)

UTilt /Reflector needs 3 frame advantage

Grab/DSmash need 6 frame advantage

USmash needs 8 frame advantage


front block - grab

back block - turn around OverB/Jab

moral is don't waste fortress on DAir unless you're not sure where he's landing


grab release - Jab -> Overb, FTilt or OverB to kill

Offstage: Run-off Nair/Wait a bit Klaw



SDI/DI almost everything the direction Fox is facing:

UTilt -> Up/Away from Fox, don't airdodge immediately

DAir - Away from Fox

Dash Attack -> Up/away from Fox

UpSmash -> Away/Down (kills at 96% no DI no momentum cancel, ~120% with DI and momentum cancel)

DSmash & FSmash-> Up/Towards the stage

Jab -> Towards Fox, he can react to this and try to UTilt you so SDI away from him if he does that consistently

FAir/UAir -> Down/Towards Fox, you can FAir Fox out of his rising FAir




Videos:

Limit vs LinkX
KKong VS GUARD (BISB 5 WSF)

Approach with short hop airdodges from afar or jump on platforms

Fox can Dash -> USmash Bowser out of his air-release, so don't input jump or up when you're mashing

Only things that reliably beat phantasm from afar are fortress and firebreath

Fox can stuff aerial klaw with FAir if he knows its coming

Hang onto ledge (not planking) to force losing Fox to stop laser camping? Hide behind stage obstacles if possible

Try to Fortress (without SDI'ing up by accident) the first two hits of Fox's jab so he can't jab->grab you[/collapse]
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
you got all of this from just watching the videos?
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
yeah i was talking about the stuff under the videos, my question was kinda unclear lol. my bad
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
From navigating other character subforums I learned that links to a post tend to **** up after a period of time, while linking threads always works. It's a lot easier to update matchup info if the post containing the info is easy to find as well.

KingKong: Shine comes out exactly when UTilt does, frame 3.
 

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
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This is really good, Flayl. A HUGE help for me in this MU.

:phone:
 

B!squick

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,629
Location
The Sunny South
From navigating other character subforums I learned that links to a post tend to **** up after a period of time, while linking threads always works. It's a lot easier to update matchup info if the post containing the info is easy to find as well.

KingKong: Shine comes out exactly when UTilt does, frame 3.
Alright. Makes sense.
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
uh, you can dair the stage if fox is coming from below with an fair?

i really don't know, fox is a character i really don't know **** about. i don't feel too comfortable doing a writeup or stating anything :/
 

Uncle

Novus Ordo Seclorum
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
1,480
Location
North Carolina
Nice.

After reading through this thread, I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. Like Limit, I don't have a vast amount of Fox experience. All that's needed now is......

1. Some input from Fox mains (We haven't heard from Nakat yet. Also, after reading Flayl's link, it would be very cool to see TKD write for the Bowser MU like that.)
2. Whatever Flayl said he was going to write, probably something good. ;)
 

Flayl

Smash Hero
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
5,520
Location
Portugal
It's going to take me a long time to finish this, it seems like I grew hate for writing.
 
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