Bowser matchup

Tmspades0101

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
2
#1
Hey everyone I have serious trouble with the bowser matchup as fox online. I rarely beat him, even when I play someone i feel is kind of predictable I still barely squeak by against him. Has anyone come up with any kind of a blueprint for handling bowser?
 

xwingz900

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
103
#2
I'm not a fox main, but in general I follow 3 main rules when fighting Bowser with any character

1. Don't challenge anything, wait for Bowser to whiff than punish.

2.Try not to instantly shield after every scenario, because Bowser players love to go for down b shield breaks

3. Avoid rapid jabs because Bowser's tough guy armor ability makes it so he doesn't get stunned and he can hit you out of it.
 

~?~

The Strangest Link Main
Premium
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
251
Location
Baltimore
#3
I'm not a fox main, but in general I follow 3 main rules when fighting Bowser with any character

1. Don't challenge anything, wait for Bowser to whiff than punish.

2.Try not to instantly shield after every scenario, because Bowser players love to go for down b shield breaks

3. Avoid rapid jabs because Bowser's tough guy armor ability makes it so he doesn't get stunned and he can hit you out of it.
Point 2 and 3 are irrelevant. Rapid Jab doesn't really have protection from tough guy, his tilts do. His rapid jabs are actually nearly pointless for regular use. In fact, any high to top level Bowser will echo this without hesitation. Point 2 is irrelevant unless you play against casual Bowsers. The higher level option is generally side special, his command grab.

The only point to take away from this is point 1. Don't shield Bowser in general. Force impatience in the player and have them whiff an attack, then go nuts because you're Fox and can peel his face off in less than 5 seconds.

My own input is the same as the point 1 I replied to as well as Fire Breath. Since it's a telegraphed move, learn to spot what the startup animation looks like. If you have space, do a dash back and spam laser until they stop breathing, then punish the end lag with a run in fast fall Nair uptilt string. If you are in the corner when they approach with Fire Breath, just jump over them or hit the platform above them, and punish accordingly. Since command grab (side special) is also very telegraphed, mentally train yourself and your muscle memory to spot dodge it, and then punish it accordingly. These are the general rules of thumb to fighting Bowser in neutral. If you want to go into depth when it comes to edge guarding Bowser, it's a lot more complicated than this and would require an extensive amount of writing or a video to cover it. Depending on the situation, I might be up for it based on what replies appear, but I'll hold off on it and see.
 
Last edited:

xwingz900

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
103
#4
Point 2 and 3 are irrelevant. Rapid Jab doesn't really have protection from tough guy, his tilts do. In fact, any high to top level Bowser will echo this without hesitation. Point 2 is irrelevant unless you play against casual Bowsers. The higher level option is generally side special, his command grab.

The only point to take away from this is point 1. Don't shield Bowser in general. Force impatience in the player and have them whiff an attack, then go nuts because you're Fox and can peel his face off in less than 5 seconds.
Tough guy doesn't have protection against rapid jab? Alright my bad, but point 2 isn't completely irrelevant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL2SSmA3I4k skip to 6:04.
 
Last edited:

~?~

The Strangest Link Main
Premium
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
251
Location
Baltimore
#5
Tough guy doesn't have protection against rapid jab? Alright my bad, but point 2 isn't completely irrelevant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL2SSmA3I4k skip to 6:04.
Before I make a reply, you can time stamp videos like this: https://youtu.be/lL2SSmA3I4k?t=362 you can do this by clicking the 'share' button under the video and clicking the time stamp option before copy pasting the link.
The example you gave me is called a "mix up" for ledge get up options, and is a 1/3 chance "rock paper scissors" scenario. This is rarely done as a regular feature in high level play. It isn't something to constantly be on your toes about because no good Bowsers do this regularly. What you saw Bones do was exploit a ledge get up habit his opponent has. I've seen more than enough Bones clips through MVG and other sources to know he doesn't do it that often, and he has every reason not to do it that often. The main reason being how punishable it is. It's why I said it only matters against casual Bowsers.
 
Last edited:

xwingz900

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
103
#6
Well I'm not trying to say Bowser players are going to just instantly drop down b everytime your shield is out, but regardless it's something to watch out for. It's a situation that Samsora got put in because Mr.Bones thought he might shield on ledge getup. Yeah I'm stupid should've time stamped it I was just in a hurry to post the link my b.
 

Prison

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
27
#7
Playing bowsers online:
- Never be under neath them
- Exploit the recovery
- Space yourself so they whiff the command grab

I find that I almost never approach during this MU, I just kind of space out and watch for whiffs. Fire breath is great, you can spam laser, then get good follow ups with nair/utilts. Or better yet, run in usmash. I've also found grabbing to be really helpful when cornered.

I tend to grab and forward throw to push them to mid stage, then follow up on their tech if there is one.

Playing bowsers in bracket/tourneys:
- Watch the command grab
- Watch the fair train
- Watch for the oos fsmash

I find it harder to punish them off of wifi, especially with edge guards. But if you get a good situation where you're hanging on ledge and they're recovering. Drop down + shine, seems to pretty much take that stock at most percents.
 

Rhus

We're going top speed!
Premium
Joined
May 17, 2014
Messages
529
Location
Canada, MB
#8
Some other points to consider:
  • Fox does not need to approach, if he's far away, shoot him, and once he's close use your excellent dash to bait his attacks.
  • Hitting Bowser's shield is fairly futile as Whirling Fortress is fast, covers both sides, and multihits. Spacing SH AC Bairs allows you to jump before getting caught in it, then follow with a punish
  • Practice punishes - once you hit Bowser you must keep him in disadvantage for as long as possible. While your neutral is better, it is scarier for you to handle Bowser in neutral, and requires far more precision on your part
    • While you have advantage state, my best suggestion is keeping him in the air for as long as possible. Bowser's Dair and DownB are both very reactable with your speed, so you can throw him up, then wait for him to pick an option and punish, you can repeat this in loops to keep him pressured. Dash > reverse utilt is excellent in keeping him airborne.
    • His command grab is terrifying, but you mitigate it by simply pressing advantage, staying below/behind him
  • Practice Uair combos on him - landing Uair should net you at least 50% instantly if you're fast enough, and easily >100% if you continue to vortex him
  • Dtilt is valuable, but its range makes it risky as you are perfectly in range for his Sideb - use sparingly, even if you want to combo him with it.
  • AC Bair is probably your safest and most practical melee attack in neutral
  • You can gimp Bowser with Shine, but I wouldn't overextend for it. Focus on ledge traps when he gets back on, initiate combos from ledge with Nair

Fox likely wins the matchup, but it's a lot harder for you than him.
 
Top Bottom