Data Blathers' Blathers: Villager Hitbox / Frame Data and Other Research

Plino

 
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May 3, 2009
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7,191
#1
Hello everyone. This thread will be an attempt to compile in-depth information on the Villager's attacks into one thread. This will range from damage outputs, to probabilities, and everything in between.

Vital Attack Data
Attack Damage Hitbubble Out Interruptable On Knockback Notes
Jab 1 3% F3 F29 15 KB
Jab 2 3% F3/F16 F28/F43 26 KB Second frame values are if Jab 2 is chained directly from Jab 1
FTilt 9% F9 F46 33 KB
DTilt 13%/8% F10 F46 43 KB/38 KB
UTilt 1 6% F9 F63 38 KB
UTilt 2 5% F31 F63 53 KB 57 KB when chained
Dash Attack 10%/6% F17 F56 52 KB/49 KB Pot does not have a hitbox or hurtbox shortly before bouncing and after bouncing
Attack Damage Hitbubble Out Interruptable On Knockback Notes
FSmash Uncharged 15% F26 F52 69 KB
FSmash Charged 21% F26 F52 80 KB
DSmash 1 Uncharged 6%/3% F14 F61 0 KB
DSmash 2 Uncharged 6%/3% F41 F61 0 KB
DSmash 1 Charged 8.4%/4.2% F14 F61 0 KB
DSmash 2 Charged 8.4%/4.2% F41 F61 0 KB
USmash 1 Uncharged 3% F13 F58 76 KB Initial jump of firecracker. Weight-based set knockback
USmash 1 Charged 4.2% F13 F58 76 KB Initial jump of firecracker. Weight-based set knockback
USmash 2 Uncharged 1%x4, 4% F20, F24, F28, F32, F36 F58 0 KBx4, 47 KB
USmash 2 Charged 1.25%x4, 6% F20, F24, F28, F32, F36 F58 0 KBx4, 50 KB
Attack Damage Hitbubble Out Interruptable On Knockback Notes
Grab Standing 0% F16 F61 0 KB
Grab Dashing 0% F17 F74 0 KB
Grab Pivoting 0% F18 F71 0 KB
Pummel 3% F? F? 0 KB
FThrow 9% F? F? 66 KB
BThrow 11% F? F? 29 KB High knockback growth
UThrow 10% F? F? 75 KB
DThrow 4.5% F? F? 52 KB
Attack Damage Hitbubble Out Hitbubble In Interruptible On (Autocancel) Interruptible On (No Autocancel) Knockback Notes
NAir 9%/5% F3 F24 F6 F15 28 KB/25 KB
FAir 7%/4%/2.5% F10 F23 F23 F23 49 KB/17 KB
BAir 9%/5%/3% F13 F27 F16 F25 51 KB/17 KB
UAir 1-turnip 8%/4% F6 F21 F16 F20 33 KB/31 KB
UAir 2-turnip 10%/5% F6 F21 F16 F20 35 KB/31 KB
UAir 3-turnip 13%/6% F6 F21 F16 F20 39 KB/32 KB
DAir 1-turnip 8%/4% F8 F32 F18 F24 33 KB/31 KB
DAir 2-turnip 10%/5% F8 F32 F18 F24 35 KB/31 KB
DAir 3-turnip 13%/13%/6% F8 F32 F18 F24 28 KB/39 KB/32 KB Only initial sweetspot spikes
Attack Damage Hitbubble Out Interruptable On Knockback Notes
Pocket x1.91 F8 F64 0 KB Pocketing hitbubble ends on F22. Intangibility begins on F6, ends on F25
Lloid Rocket Unridden 7%/5% F53 F40 33 KB
Lloid Rocket Ridden 16.1%/11.5% F48 F? 44 KB Damage/KB are duration-dependent, not velocity- or distance-dependent. Can jump off F42
Lloid Rocket Selfdestruct 12% F200 F276 ? KB
Lloid Rocket Stage 28% F? F? 38 KB
Sapling 0% F43 0 KB Sapling lasts 840F/14S
Watering Can 0% F8 F54 22 KB Weight-based set knockback
Axe 14% F6 F57 40 KB
Tree Growth 18%/13% F50 F54 47 KB/39 KB
Tree Falling 25%/15% F25 F50 64 KB/42KB
Timber Flying 8% F? F50 ? KB Various flight trajectories. Seem to affect knockback
Attack Damage Hitbubble Out Interruptable On Knockback Notes
Garden 10% ~F15 ~F53 59 KB Extremely low knockback growth. Hitbubble out and interruptibility frames are calculated approximations
Pushy Lloid Unridden 1.5%x4 F? F? ? KB
Pushy Lloid Ridden 1.75%x4 F? F? ? KB
Pushy Lloid Selfdestruct 6% F? F? 0 KB
Liftoff Lloid Unridden 8%/5% F? F? ? KB
Liftoff Lloid Ridden 19.2%/12% F? F? ? KB
Liftoff Lloid Unridden Selfdestruct 14% F? F? ? KB
Counter Sapling 2% F? F? 17 KB If opponent lands on sapling, they will trip twice and sustain 2% damage twice. Lasts about 13S/780F
Counter Watering Can 0% ?F ?F 17 KB Weight-based set knockback
Counter Axe 6% ?F ?F 31 KB
Counter Tree Growth 12%/10% F? F? ? KB/35 KB
Counter Tree Falling 12% F? F? ? KB
Counter Tree Counter 5% F? F? 39 KB Damage does not scale with the damage of the attack countered
Super Sapling 0% ~F53-F60 0 KB Interruptibility frames are calculated approximations
Super Axe 16% ?F ?F 74 KB
Extreme Balloon Trip 9%/6% ~F1-F2 F? ? KB Hitbubble frames are calculated approximations
Balloon High Jump 10%/6% ~F8-F12 F? ? KB
Attack Damage Hitbubble Out Interruptable On Knockback Notes
Timber Thrown 3% F? F? 27 KB
Timber Dropped 3% F1 F1 27KB
Edge Attack 7%
Face-up Floor Attack 1 7%
Face-up Floor Attack 2 7%
Face-down Floor Attack 1 7%
Face-down Floor Attack 2 7%
Sitting Floor Attack 1 5%
Sitting Floor Attack 2 5%
Spotdodge 0% F1 F30 0 KB Intangibility ends on F19
Airdodge 0% F4 F33 0 KB Intangibility ends on F30
FRoll 0% F1 F31 0 KB Intangibility ends on F21
BRoll 0% F1 F32 0 KB Intangibility ends on F22
Airdodge Landing Lag 0% F1 F24 0KB First frame value is the first frame upon landing on a surface

Knockback was tested under the following conditions:
-Fresh attacks
-Villager at 0%
-Opponent at 0%
-Opponent with a weight value of 98

Credit to Croi for most of the frame data

Timber (:GCD::GCB:)
Basic Information
  • Timber is a three stage move
    1. Plant a sapling
    2. Water the sapling
    3. The tree grows
In-depth Information

1. Sapling
  • Lifespan
    • Standard sapling has a lifespan of about 840F/14S, beginning at the time of planting. It will begin to wither before S14, and will be gone after S14
    • Super sapling has a lifespan of about 600F/10S, beginning at the time of planting. It will begin to wither before S10, and will be gone after S10
    • Counter sapling has a lifespan of about 960F/16S, beginning at the time of planting. It will begin to wither before S16, and will be gone after S16
  • Hurtbubble
    • Standard sapling does not have a hurtbubble
    • Super sapling does not have a hurtbubble
    • Counter sapling does not have a hurtbubble
  • Hitbubble
    • Standard sapling does not have a hurtbubble
    • Super sapling does not have a hurtbubble
    • Counter sapling has a tripping + damaging hurtbubble
2. Watering Can
  • The watering can can be used at any time the sapling is out, and even while it is withering
  • The watering can does not have a hurtbubble
  • The watering can has a pushing, non-damaging hitbubble
    • This hitbubble can nullify with many different projectiles and attacks. Clanking will not cause the watering can to end prematurely
    • Knockback applied by this hitbubble is weight-based set knockback
  • The Villager can move and jump while using the watering can, but they cannot turn around
  • Range
    • Standard watering can's range extends about 0.75 Battlefield platforms ahead of the Villager
    • Super watering can's range extends about 0.75 Battlefield-Ω stage lengths ahead of the Villager
    • Counter watering can's range extends about 0.75 Battlefield platforms ahead of the Villager
3. Axe
  • The axe can be used at any time the tree is out, and even while it is withering
  • The axe does not have a hurtbubble
  • The axe has a hitbubble
  • The axe's tree-felling mechanics are independent of its hitbubble and the tree's health/lifespan systems
4. Tree
  • The tree has a hurtbubble
    • This is roughly at the entirety of the trunk, and very little where the foliage begins
      • Trees have health-point systems
        • The variations have different amounts of health
          • Standard tree has 30% HP
          • Super tree has 50% HP
          • Counter tree has 15% HP
        • Any non-axe hitbubbles that collide with a tree's hurtbubble subtract from its health the same amount of damage that they would have dealt to a player
        • Being chopped at does not deplete its health
        • Health is independent of lifespan
  • Trees have lifespan systems
    • The variations have different lifespans
      • Standard tree has a lifespan of about 11S/660F
      • Super tree has a lifespan of about 9.5S/570F
      • Counter tree has a lifespan of about 15.5S/930F
        • Lifespans were measured starting at the moment of watering and ending with the first signs of withering
      • Lifespan is independent of health
      • The tree is not choppable while it is withering
      • The tree does not collide with hitbubbles while it is withering
      • The tree does not have a hurtbubble while it is withering (it does not impede opponents' movement)
  • A tree must be chopped at twice on the same side in order to fall
  • The tree has two hitbubble instances
    • The first occurs while it is growing
    • The second occurs while it is falling
  • When falling, a tree has a chance to spawn one of two items
    • Wood (hereafter referred to as "timber")
      • Pieces of timber do not have hurtbubbles
      • Pieces of timber have hitbubbles when flying out from the tree
        • Pieces of timber have various flight arcs and distances
          • This seems to affect the amount of knockback applied, but not the amount of damage dealt
      • Pieces of timber can be Pocketed and picked up to be thrown as projectiles
    • Damage-healing items
      • Fruit
        • Peaches
          • Heal 5%
        • Apples
          • Heal 4%
        • Pears
          • Heal 3%
        • Oranges
          • Heal 2%
        • Cherries
          • Heal 1%
      • Maxim Tomatoes
  • Battlefield-Ω
    • Timber
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 36.000%
      • Average Percent Chance
        • 35.565%
      • Population Standard Deviation
        • 03.260
    • Fruit
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 04.000%¹
  • Battlefield-Regular
    • Timber
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 47.000%
      • Average Percent Chance
        • 48.122%
      • Population Standard Deviation
        • 13.993²
    • Fruit
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 01.000%
¹During testing for Battlefield-Ω, there was an instance when two fruit were spawned within a single trial. The actual percent chance is probably closer to 01.000%
²During testing for Battlefield-Regular, the spawning rate of pieces of timbers varied wildly, from over half the trees producing timber, to less than a fifth of them doing so. This is the reason for the high standard deviation value. The actual percent chance is probably close to the average percent chance

Code:
-===========================-
||       Battlefield-Ω       ||
-===========================-

----------|Trial 1|----------
|No. Trees| 20                |
|No. Items| 07                |
|%  Chance| 35.000%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 2|----------
|No. Trees| 23                |
|No. Items| 08                |
|%  Chance| 34.783%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 3|----------
|No. Trees| 22                |
|No. Items| 09                |
|%  Chance| 40.909%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 4|----------
|No. Trees| 22                |
|No. Items| 08                |
|%  Chance| 36.364%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 5|----------
|No. Trees| 13                |
|No. Items| 04                |
|%  Chance| 30.769%           |
-----------------------------
-----------|Overall|---------
|No. Trees| 100               |
|No. Items| 36                |
|No. Fruit| 04                |
|%  Chance| 36.000%           |
|Average %| 35.565%           |
|Ppltion σ| 03.260            |
|% ChanceF| 04.000%           |
-----------------------------
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
-===========================-
||     Battlefield-Regular   ||
-===========================-

----------|Trial 1|----------
|No. Trees| 21                |
|No. Items| 10                |
|%  Chance| 47.619%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 2|----------
|No. Trees| 18                |
|No. Items| 10                |
|%  Chance| 55.556%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 3|----------
|No. Trees| 22                |
|No. Items| 05                |
|%  Chance| 22.727%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 4|----------
|No. Trees| 17                |
|No. Items| 11                |
|%  Chance| 64.706%           |
-----------------------------
----------|Trial 5|----------
|No. Trees| 22                |
|No. Items| 11                |
|%  Chance| 50.000%           |
-----------------------------
-----------|Overall|---------
|No. Trees| 100               |
|No. Items| 47                |
|No. Fruit| 01                |
|%  Chance| 47.000%           |
|Average %| 48.122%           |
|Ppltion σ| 13.993            |
|% ChanceF| 01.000%           |
-----------------------------
Down Air (:GCU::GCCD:)
Basic Information
  • Down Air has a random chance of generating 1, 2, or 3 turnips
    • The amount of turnips affects the attack's damage output and knockback
In-Depth Information
  • 1-turnip
    • Deals 8% damage when fresh
    • Does not spike
      • Knockback seems to be E/NE or W/NW
  • 2-turnip
    • Deals 10% damage when fresh
    • Does not spike
      • Knockback seems to be nearly horizontal
  • 3-turnip
    • Deals 13% damage when fresh
    • Spikes
      • Spike hitbubble is at the Villager's hands/the turnips' leaves
  • Down Air
    • 1 turnip
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 30.000%
    • 2 turnips
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 36.000%
    • 3 turnips
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 34.000%
    • Standard Deviation
      • 00.803
Credit to Overswarm for these data

Up Air (:GCU::GCCU:)
Basic Information
  • Up Air has a random chance of generating 1, 2, or 3 turnips
    • The amount of turnips affects the attack's damage output and knockback
      • Any amount of turnips deals vertical knockback
In-Depth Information
  • 1-turnip
    • Deals 8% damage when fresh, early hit
    • Deals 4% damage when fresh, late hit
  • 2-turnip
    • Deals 10% damage when fresh, early hit
    • Deals 5% damage when fresh, late hit
  • 3-turnip
    • Deals 13% damage when fresh, early hit
    • Deals 6% damage when fresh, late hit
  • Up Air
    • 1 turnip
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 28.000%
    • 2 turnips
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 31.000%
    • 3 turnips
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 41.000%
    • Standard Deviation
      • 00.825
Credit to Overswarm for these data

Dash Attack (:GCR::GCA:)
Basic Information
  • Dash Attack is split up into two independent hitbubbles
    • The Villager
    • The pot
In-Depth Information
  • Villager
    • Deals 10% damage when fresh
  • Pot
    • Deals 6% damage when fresh
    • Has two possible flying distances
      • Short; does not bounce
      • Far; bounces once
        • The flying distance does not seem to affect damage output
    • Counts as a projectile
      • This means it can be Pocketed by other Villagers and reflected by Mario's Cape

For each comparison, the Villager was later scaled to equal sizes for more or less accurate depiction of distances
  • Dash Attack
    • One Bounce
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 39.000%
      • Average Percent Chance
        • 39.183%
    • No Bounce
      • Total Percent Chance
        • 61.000%
      • Average Percent Chance
        • 60.817%
    • Population Standard Deviation
      • 08.365
Code:
-===========================-
||       Battlefield-Ω       ||
-===========================-

-------|Trial 1|-------
_______________________
|Variable|Amount|%Chance|
-----------------------
|1-Bounce|  11  |42.308%|
|NoBounce|  15  |57.692%|
-----------------------

-------|Trial 2|-------
_______________________
|Variable|Amount|%Chance|
-----------------------
|1-Bounce|  12  |50.000%|
|NoBounce|  12  |50.000%|
-----------------------

-------|Trial 3|-------
_______________________
|Variable|Amount|%Chance|
-----------------------
|1-Bounce|  09  |37.500%|
|NoBounce|  15  |62.500%|
-----------------------

-------|Trial 4|-------
_______________________
|Variable|Amount|%Chance|
-----------------------
|1-Bounce|  07  |26.923%|
|NoBounce|  19  |73.077%|
-----------------------

-----------|Overall|---------
_____________________________
|          |1-Bounce|No Bounce|
-----------------------------
|Amount    |   39   |   61    |
|%Chance   | 39.000%| 61.000% |
|Avg%Chance| 39.183%| 60.817% |
|σ StandDev|      08.365      |
-----------------------------

Pocket (:GCB:)
Basic Information
  • Pocket works like both an absorber and a reflector
    • Villager will not sustain damage by Pocketing a projectile
    • Villager can release the projectile at a later time with increased damage output
In-Depth Information
  • The Villager can Pocket nearly every item and projectile that can be reflected or absorbed
    • Every in-game item can be Pocketed except for
      • Unclaimed Pokeballs
      • Unclaimed Masterballs
      • Assist Trophies
      • Smash Balls
      • Cuccos
      • Sandbags
    • For multi-unit projectiles such as FLUDD and Thunder, only 1 unit will be Pocketed
    • The Villager cannot Pocket their own projectiles unless they are reflected or Pocketed by another Villager
      • Fruit and pieces of timber are exceptions because they count as independently spawned projectiles
  • The Villager is intangible starting on F6 and ending on F25
    • This means they suffer no damage, knockback, hitstun, etc. Attacks literally pass through them
  • The Pocketing hitbubble begins on F8 and ends on F22
    • This means that in general, Pocketing a projectile is guaranteed due to the intangibility frames
      • However, if the Villager begins to Pocket a projectile later into the duration of the Pocket's hitbubble, they can be hit by another entity after the intangibility has run out and before the projectile has been Pocketed, resulting in failing to Pocket the projectile
        • An example where this would occur is attempting to Pocket a unit of Thunder while within its hurtbubble. The rest of the units of Thunder may hit the Villager, rendering them unable to Pocket the one unit
  • The Pocket removes any non-charging damage and knockback multipliers a projectile had before being Pocketed and applies its own multipliers to the projectile's base damage and knockback formula
    • The Pocket applies about a x1.91 multiplier to a projectile's damage
    • The Pocket applies an unknown multiplier to a projectile's knockback
      • Weight-based set knockback projectiles are unaffected
      • It is currently unknown if the Pocket's knockback multiplier overrides the rage effect's multiplier
  • The Villager can only have one projectile in their inventory at a time
    • However, if they have a projectile in their inventory while simultaneously holding another projectile, using Pocket will swap between the two projectiles
  • A projectile will only remain in the inventory for about 30S/1800F, after which it disappears, and pressing B results in attempting to Pocket another projectile
    • However, bringing a projectile out of the inventory then Pocketing it again resets its Pocket timer
  • Pocketing a projectile refreshes any timers it has
    • For example, Pocketing a Bob-omb that is about it explode will result in it resetting its timer when brought back out. Pocketing an item that is about to disappear will result in its timer being reset when brought back out
  • When bringing out a Pocketed projectile, the way it is used depends on its original use properties
    • Projectiles that can be held will be brought out to the Villager's hands and held
      • For example, Bombs and Metal Blades
    • Projectiles that cannot be held will be automatically used
      • For example, Thunder and FLUDD water
        • Any projectiles that fall under this category will also assume the flight path they would have taken had their spawn point been where the Pocketing spawn point is
          • For example, Thunder and Mega Man DAir will shoot straight down in front of the Villager, because the Pocketing spawn point counts as the thundercloud and Mega Man's hand, respectively
          • Thunderjolt and Fireball will respectively arc and bounce along the ground just as they normally would
          • Mega Man UAir will fly upwards just as it normally would
      • This also includes healing items such as fruit and Maxim Tomatoes spawned from Villagers' trees
  • Certain characters who are limited to owning a certain amount of a projectile will be unable to generate one of said projectile if doing so would exceed their ownership limit, even if one of their projectiles is currently held in a Villager's inventory, until the projectile either disappears from the inventory or is brought out, used by the Villager, and then disappears
    • Examples include ROB's Gyros and Diddy Kong's Bananas
  • Bowser
    • Fire Breath
    • Fire Shot
    • Fire Roar
  • Bowser Jr.
    • Clown Cannon
    • Piercing Cannon
    • Mechakoopa
    • Impatient Mechakoopa
    • Big Mechakoopa
  • Charizard
    • Flamethrower
    • Rock Smash (1 unit)
  • Dark Pit
    • Arrow
  • Diddy Kong
    • Banana
    • Shocking Banana Peel
    • Battering Banana Peel
    • Peanut Popgun
    • Jumbo Peanuts
  • Dr. Mario
    • Megavitamin
    • Fast Capsule
    • Mega Capsule
  • Duck Hunt
    • Trick Shot
    • Clay Shooting
    • Wild Gunman's Bullet
  • Falco
    • Blaster
  • Greninja
    • Hydro Pump (1 unit)
    • Water Shuriken
  • King Dedede
    • Gordo
    • Super Dedede Jump's Star
  • Kirby
    • Final Cutter's Beam
  • Link
    • Bomb
    • Giant Bomb
    • Meteor Bomb
    • Hero's Bow
    • Power Bow
    • Quickfire Bow
    • Gale Boomerang
    • Boomerang
    • Ripping Boomerang
  • Lucario
    • Aura Sphere
    • Force Palm
  • Luigi
    • Fireball
  • Mario
    • Fireball
    • F.L.U.D.D. (1 unit)
  • Mega Man
    • Crash Bomber
    • Leaf Shield
    • Metal Blade
    • Rush Coil
    • Jab
    • FTilt
    • FSmash
    • DAir
    • NAir
    • UAir
  • Mr. Game & Watch
    • Chef
  • Ness
    • PK Fire
    • PK Thunder
  • Pac-Man
    • Bonus Fruit
    • Fire Hydrant
    • Fire Hydrant's Water
    • Pac-Jump
  • Palutena
    • Autoreticle (1 unit)
  • Peach
    • Beam Sword
    • Bob-omb
    • Mr. Saturn
    • Turnip
  • Pikachu
    • Thunder
    • Thunder Jolt
  • R.O.B.
    • Gyro
    • Robo Beam
  • Robin
    • Discarded Levin Sword
    • Discarded Tome
    • Arcfire
    • Elwind (1 unit)
    • Thunder
    • Arcthunder
    • Elthunder
    • Thoron
  • Rosalina & Luma
    • Floaty Star Bit
    • Shooting Star Bit
  • Samus
    • Bomb
    • Charge Shot
    • Missile
  • Sheik
    • Burst Grenade
    • Needle Storm (1 unit)
  • Sonic
    • Spring Jump
  • Villager
    • Fruit
    • Lloid Rocket Unridden
    • Timber Falling
    • Timber Piece
    • Dash Attack's Pot
    • FSmash
    • BAir
    • FAir
  • Wario
    • Wario Bike
  • Wii Fit Trainer
    • Header's Ball
    • Sun Salutation
  • Yoshi
    • Egg Throw
    • Yoshi Bomb's Star
  • Zelda
    • Phantom Slash
  • Zero Suit Samus
    • Paralyzer
  • Bonkers
    • Coconuts
  • Chandelure
    • Fire Spin
    • Will-o-Wisp
  • Custom bags
  • Daphne
    • Mines
  • Eggrobo
    • Single beam
  • Flame Chomp
    • Fireballs
  • Gold
  • Hammer Bro
    • Hammers
  • Kamek
    • Magic beam
  • Kihunter
    • Acid
  • Lurchthorn
    • Explosives
  • Megonta
    • Explosives
  • Mettaur
    • Shots
  • Monoeye
    • Blasts
  • Nutski
    • Nuts
  • Octorok
    • Seeds
  • Plasma Wisp
    • Level 1: Electric Bullets
    • Level 2: Electric Arrow
    • Level 3: Electric Orb
  • Powers Bags
  • Roturret
    • Blasts
  • Skuttler Cannoneer
    • Beams
    • Bombs
    • Missiles
  • Shotzo
    • Cannonballs
  • Starman
    • PK Beam γ
    • PK Beam Ω
  • Trophies
  • Waddle Doo
    • Beam (1 unit)

09/16/14
  • Created thread
  • Added: Timber data and probabilities
  • Added: Overswarm's Up Air and Down Air probabilities
  • Added: Data for tree's weak growing hitbubble
  • Rectified: Watering can's pushing hitbubble's range from 1.25 Battlefield platforms to 0.75 Battlefield platforms
09/17/14
  • Added: Dash Attack data and probabilities
  • Added: Data for tree's weak falling hitbubble
  • Confirmed: 3-turnip Down Air is the only variation that spikes
  • Rectified: Miscellaneous typos
09/21/14
  • Added: Knockback data
  • Added: Knockback details for the watering can
  • Added: Knockback data for aerials and dash attack
09/23/14
  • Added: Damage data
  • Added: Frame data
09/25/14
  • Added: Pocket data
  • Rectified: NAir's hitbubble from sweetspot and sourspot to decaying hitbubble
09/28/24
  • Added: Multiplier mechanics
  • Rectified: Various terminology issues
  • Rectified: Inaccurate multi-tree mechanics
10/02/14
  • Added: Ability to Pocket Sheik's Needles
10/04/14
  • Added: Ability to Pocket Duck Hunt's Explosive Cans and Clay Pigeons
10/06/14
  • Rectified: Various naming discrepancies
  • Completed: List of standard Pocketable objects
10/15/14
  • Added: Damage data for edge and floor attacks
11/19/14
  • Added: Decimal-accurate damages for applicable attacks
  • Added: Super Timber's tree damage data
  • Added: Health and lifespan data for Super Timber and Counter Timber
  • Rectified: Erroneous damage outputs
02/07/14
  • Completed: Hitbox data sheet
 
Last edited:

Plino

 
Premium
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
7,191
#3
Hot damn thank you for reminding me about that. As it stands I can only test on the two forms of Battlefield, but I'll try anyway to see if there is a similar situation.

Also, Overswarm's aerials' turnip probability data have been added.
 

Plino

 
Premium
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May 3, 2009
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#5
I've run tests on the dash attack now. The deviation is way too high for my tastes though, so I'm going to have to run more trials to hopefully get more standardised values. I'm still adding the currently collected information as preliminary data though. I've also included pictures for the two possible distances the pot can travel.

Also, 3-turnip DAir being the only variation that spikes is finally concretely confirmed by one of the info slides presented before a match.
 

SoniCraft

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#8
So is there anything I can do to help out with these endeavors? I have the demo, so I can play Villager. I've been playing him for a while now, becoming quite comfortable with how he fights. If you want me to try to get exact details on certain things, I'd be happy to help.
 

Plino

 
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#9
Updated with knockback values

So is there anything I can do to help out with these endeavors? I have the demo, so I can play Villager. I've been playing him for a while now, becoming quite comfortable with how he fights. If you want me to try to get exact details on certain things, I'd be happy to help.
If you could try recreating the event shown here at different opponent percentages, that would be super lovely. Make sure the Villager is at 0%, the Rocket is fresh, and the opponent is Mario. I think the best percentages to test at would be 0%, 50%, 100%, and 150%. Percentages close to those are fine, as long as you make a note of what they were (before the attack connected). After it connects, end the match and press A ONCE, then scroll down through the bonuses list to find the "Max Launcher Speed" value and note it down.
 

SoniCraft

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#10
The "here" link just shows up with an error, so not sure what you're wanting me to do.
 

Plino

 
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#11
Added a new section called "Vital Attack Data" to consolidate the most important information into one place. This includes attack knockback values, damage outputs, and frame data, and other nifty stuff such as dodge frame data. It's still a WIP but holy slunk guys we are so close to having nearly all of our data. A big thanks to @Croi for gathering the frame data.

Unfortunately, regarding damage outputs, since a match actually starts you off at 105% damage when fresh (instead of 100%, how counterintuitive), some values differ from what you see at the start of a match. Namely Lloid Rocket's and Timber's. I'll try and collect data for both the x1.00 multiplier and the x1.05 multiplier, and to approximate the decimal values of damages. Though I'm probably gonna end up going with the 100% values, since they're the more accurate ones.

Read through this and give me your opinions on what I should change. Right now my eyes hurt so I'm not gonna look at it any longer, but tell me how I can improve the interface so it reads more easily, if there are an errors or discrepancies, etc.

The "here" link just shows up with an error, so not sure what you're wanting me to do.
Sorry, Hong slunked it up by merging the thread I linked with another. :mad: Look here.
 
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SoniCraft

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#12
What do you mean a match starts you off at 105% damage when fresh?

Also, how does bthrow have less KB, yet it's a kill throw? Is fthrow a better kill throw? Maybe you should find out the KBG(Knockback Growth) for each throw?
 
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Plino

 
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#13
In a match, a fresh attack will do 105% its base damage (it will have its base damage multiplied by 1.05), rather than just 100% of its base damage (base damage x1.00). In training mode, fresh attacks do 100% their base damage and do not stale, so what you see in training mode is the true base damage.

Also idk where you read its a kill throw. I'm not trying to be condescending or saying you're wrong, I legitimately don't know what you're referring to and can't vouch for whether or not its a good kill throw since I never grab. It might have high knockback growth like Luigi's FSmash (which also has low BKB but high KBG), but since I only have the demo the closest approximation for BKB I could get would be through a metal Link, which probably wouldn't be very accurate. Once I get the full game I'm going to test for BKB by attacking an extreme Shield Art metal Shulk. Then I'll try and approximate KBG from there. This is assuming that the only significant difference between Brawl's knockback formula and Smash 4's is the latter's inclusion of the rage effect, and then assuming that the rage effect is a multiplier with a value of x1.00 at 0%.
 
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SoniCraft

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#14
I actually didn't read about it, I've seen it in action with my own eyes, both in tournament setting(Tourney Locator Youtube Channel), and I've done it a couple times myself. It definitely has kill potential if you get a grab near the ledge. Think of it like Mario's bthrow.

Also, I will go to work on that Gyroid launch speed data as soon as I finish this message, so expect your answer soon.

Ok, I now realize I actually do not know what you want me to do. Forgive me for being a pain in the butt, but I'm not sure what you're asking me to accomplish. I understand how to do the ledge stall technique, but what I don't understand is the supposed "attack" you want me to do? If you could just clarify a little that would be splendid.

However, I haven't learned nothing while testing this. I found on the normal version(FD) of the stage, you can side b into the wall a max of 13 times if you drop from the ledge on both sides of the stage. Although, on the omega version(with platforms), it seems you can only side b a max of 9 times on the right side and 10 times on the left. Also, stalling the maximum amount of time does not restore any invincibility, rendering Sakurai's explanation of the mechanic moot regarding the part about time spent off the ledge restoring invincibility time. More testing will need to be done on what exactly restores invincibility.
 
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Plino

 
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#16
I actually didn't read about it, I've seen it in action with my own eyes, both in tournament setting(Tourney Locator Youtube Channel), and I've done it a couple times myself. It definitely has kill potential if you get a grab near the ledge. Think of it like Mario's bthrow.

Also, I will go to work on that Gyroid launch speed data as soon as I finish this message, so expect your answer soon.

Ok, I now realize I actually do not know what you want me to do. Forgive me for being a pain in the butt, but I'm not sure what you're asking me to accomplish. I understand how to do the ledge stall technique, but what I don't understand is the supposed "attack" you want me to do? If you could just clarify a little that would be splendid.

However, I haven't learned nothing while testing this. I found on the normal version(FD) of the stage, you can side b into the wall a max of 13 times if you drop from the ledge on both sides of the stage. Although, on the omega version(with platforms), it seems you can only side b a max of 9 times on the right side and 10 times on the left. Also, stalling the maximum amount of time does not restore any invincibility, rendering Sakurai's explanation of the mechanic moot regarding the part about time spent off the ledge restoring invincibility time. More testing will need to be done on what exactly restores invincibility.
Well, most attacks have kill potential when executed near a ledge... but anyway like I said it having high KBG isn't out of the question, in which case yeah, its definitely a good KO option, even when you're not playing around the ledge.

And sorry, I should have clarified. That "Max Launcher Speed" value I'm talking about is basically KB, that's just the term the game uses. So when you see that value, its telling you what was the highest amount of knockback you dealt in the match. Naturally to test for this you're gonna want to only allow one attack to connect in a match before ending it and checking the value.

So I'm not asking for data about the Lloid stall, I'm asking for data on the amount of knockback a Lloid rocket delivers when it explodes "inside" the stage, as shown in the other video in that thread. Again, when you're testing, make sure you only let one attack connect, make sure you are at 0%, and make sure the attack is fresh. And don't mix up "Max Launch Speed" with "Max Launcher Speed", because the former is the max amount of knockback YOU were subjected to.

Also, I think ledge invincibility only refreshes by either landing on a surface again (i.e. the stage) or being damaged while offstage. I don't think it naturally regenerates over time.
Rage effect? Is that the steam? What does it do?
Rage effect is a new mechanic that works under the same principles as Lucario's aura. The higher your damage, the more knockback you deliver (but you DON'T do more damage. Just knockback). The issue is we don't know yet how it scales, what its growth rate is, or if its actually a "less knockback at lower percents" or "more knockback at higher percents" deal. So for all we know it could actually add a, say, x0.88 multiplier to your knockback when you're at 0%, which then grows to x1.00 at like 150%, instead of x1.00 at 0% and x1.50 at 150%. But for now I think its pretty safe to assume its x1.00 at 0%.

And I had completely forgotten abot the steam, that might actually indicate a certain level in the multiplier. Great catch yo
 
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Plino

 
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#17
I've added damage data for the Villager's customs. A big thanks to @NinjaLink for his video showcasing the attacks in question. The data might be a little off here and there, specifically the distinction between weak and strong hits and minimum damage values, so I'll update once the game drops in the US
 

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#18
OH. THAT VIDEO. Now I understand what you want me to do. I just watched the first video that link sent me to. Ah well, at least I didn't completely waste my time Lloid stalling, right?

Right?
 

Plino

 
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#19
Alright, so I was finally able to do some extensive testing on Pocket's damage multiplier. It rounds out to 1.9, so I've added that. I've also been perusing various gameplay videos to list as many Pocketable projectiles as possible, so I've added what I could confirm through that.

OH. THAT VIDEO. Now I understand what you want me to do. I just watched the first video that link sent me to. Ah well, at least I didn't completely waste my time Lloid stalling, right?

Right?
...right :080:
 

SoniCraft

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#20
You might also want to list unpocketable projectiles if you find any of those somehow.

Also, about that KB data you want, I'm going to test it with somebody else who has the demo tomorrow so that the opponent's behavior is more reliable. I'm really sorry it's taking me so long to do this. Is there anything else I can help you with in the future?
 
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SoniCraft

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#21
Alright, here are my findings on the Lloid Ledge Attack(we can think of another name later) test:

0% = 71KB
49& = 139KB (KOed, survivable with good VI)
100% = 208KB (KOed, unsurvivable)
151% = 239KB (KOed, unsurvivable)

Test conditions:
Mario at 0%
Villager at 0%
Rocket Fresh
Interesting note: KB drastically decreased from 100% to 150%. Perhaps this means the rage mechanic works defensively as well?

I also did some testing with Villager returning Megaman's Fsmash. Here are my findings, make of it what you will:

Megaman Max Charged Fsmash: 47 KB 20% Damage
Megaman Uncharged Fsmash: 34 KB 12% Damage
Villager Return(Max Charged): 99 KB(x2.1 KB increase) 38% Damage(x1.9 Damage increase)
Villager Return(No Charge): 54 KB(x1.59 KB increase) 22% Damage(x1.83 Damage increase) <-- possible error in this test, may want to get other test results

Test conditions:
Megaman at 0%
Villager at 0%
Mega's Fsmash Fresh
Villager's Pocket Fresh(?)

Well there you go! Hope this helps out in some way!
 

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#22
Wow, how did you get the rocket to apply so much knockback? I need to figure this out lmao. Anyway good stuff and thanks a ton, I'm gonna be looking over this to see what I can make of it, in terms of the Rocket's different hitbubbles' kbg/bkb values.

Regarding the Mega Man's FSmash tests, this is also very useful. I was also gonna test to see if Pocket modified non-set knockback, but it occurred to me that we may also need to account for starting and ending opponent percents. I have an idea of how to look into it though

Anyway thank you so much for this data. I haven't had a chance to hang out with any of my friends who also have the demo, and its difficult testing for this sort of data with computers.
 

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#23
No problem! I'm always happy to help, so if you need anything else tested, just let me know. To get the Rocket to do that much knockback, just get as close to the ledge as possible without grabbing it and hold side b, then you'll spawn the rocket and it'll explode instantly, doing a ton of KB and damage(just realized I forgot to note the percent damage down too :/)
 
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#24
Hey I'm not sure how handy this would be in a fight, but here's some timber data nonetheless. When villager waters the sapling, it isn't simply a case of "when it's watered it grows." The sapling actually has to be hit by enough water hitboxes before the growing animation starts. Now I'm not sure how each separate water hitbox is calculated (is it each drop or each cluster of drops?) but with proper spacing I've watered a plant three times without it actually growing (you can tell because the leaves twitch when the water hitbox lands). I've never gone past four, so I assume it takes four of the water hitboxes, whatever they are. A more meticulous tester may be able to go further with this info, but it's just something I noticed.
 

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#25
I've noticed that too... and you have a point. I think the number of times a sapling shakes is related to the number of units of water it receives from its owner's watering can. There must also a threshold on the amount of water it has to receive at a time in order to grow, because like you also said, you can't water it with a few drops at a time and have it grow. I'm not sure how to go about testing this, but I think that clanking the water with another Villager's and counting the number of collision bubbles might help. Further research would definitely be nice so I'll be thinking of ways to do that.

Anyway I just realised that I didn't post my data I used in calculating Pocket's damage multiplier so I'll do that now

Regular Damage Pocket Damage Multiplier
MManFSmashU 12% 23% 1.9166666666666666666666666666667
MManFSmashC 20% 38% 1.9
VillagerFSmashU 15% 29% 1.9333333333333333333333333333333
VillagerFSmashC 21% 41% 1.952380952380952380952380952381
Tree 26% 49% 1.8846153846153846153846153846154
Lloid Rocket 7% 13% 1.8571428571428571428571428571429
MManDAir 14% 27% 1.9285714285714285714285714285714
Fireball 5% 9% 1.8

I tried sticking to high-damage moves for the most part to get more accurate numbers. The average of all the multipliers, factoring in the Fireball mutliplier, is x1.89659. Without it, it's x1.91039, so I think x1.9 is still a very accurate estimate of the multiplier, which also agrees with what NeoGAF user JoeInky has reported.

I also did testing on knockback, and it seems that Pocket also does indeed add a knockback multiplier. A Pocketed tree deals 49% damage, so I tested by hitting the opponent with jabs until they reached 22%, then hitting them with a fresh Tree's sweetspot (bringing them to a final damage of 48%, which is close enough). While the Pocketed tree applied 145 KB with an ending damage of 49%, the regular Tree only applied 91 KB with an ending damage of 48%. Similarly, uncharged Pocketed Villager FSmash applies 98 KB at 29%, while uncharged non-Pocketed Villager FSmash applies 79 KB at 28%. There's obviously a knockback multiplier, but since knockback uses a much more complex formula, I'm going to hold off on giving an estimate for this until Friday when I can approximate for base knockback values and see what this game's knockback formula is like.

Oh, also, Pocket resets any damage multipliers a projectile had at the time of Pocketing and applies its own multiplier to the base damage. It also substitutes any extra knockback multipliers that would have been used in the knockback calculations with its own (I still need to test if this would include the rage multiplier). This is why passing a Tree between two Pockets repeatedly does not raise its damage output past 49%; every time it is Pocketed, the previous multiplier is reset/removed and the current one is applied. It also explains why in a situation where a Mario capes your falling Tree back at you, it deals around 79% (I think cape has something like a x3.0 multiplier), but if you Pocket the caped Tree and use it on Mario, it still only deals 49%. The cape multiplier is removed, and the Pocket multiplier is added.
 
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Plino

 
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#27
I don't believe Pocket itself stales, since it is a type of reflector. As for Pocketing staled projectiles, I'm pretty sure it removes the stale move multiplier and just applies its own multiplier to the base damage. I'll double check though.
 

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#28
So, it is with great pleasure that I can say announce the completion of the list of Pocketable objects, for standard movesets.

You cannot Pocket Din's Fire at all.

You cannot Pocket PK Flash at all.

Wario seems unable to spawn another Bike if you have his in your inventory.

You can Pocket PK Thunder, though when you release it it will follow a straight path in front of you. Pocketing it away from Ness puts him into special fall, so it's probably gonna be the funnier way to gimp him.

You can Pocket Pac-Man's Hydrant, though I couldn't figure out the specifications to be able to Pocket it. I know you can do so as it is falling or flying through the air, and for a little bit after it has been set up, but it doesn't seem to be Pocketable right before the water begins leaking out of the seams, indicating the spurts of water. Pac-Man can still set up another Hydrant even if you've got another one of his in your inventory.

You can Pocket Bonus Fruit, and Pac-Man is unable to spawn more bonus fruit as long as you are HOLDING the fruit. If it is in your inventory, he can still generate more fruit (all of this also applies to non-fruit objects like the Key and the Galaga enemy).

A Pocketed fully charged Charge Shot seems to be a guaranteed shield break, holy ****. This makes me wonder if Pocket also adds a shield damage multiplier.

Pocketed Burst Grenades won't explode at all. Tossing them deals 7% damage, and smash throwing them deals 8%. They don't disappear on contact with the ground.

I'll get around to finding out Pocketable custom moves and Mii Fighter moves soon.

Also, petition to call keeping Bonus Fruit, Gyros, Bikes, and Bananas in your inventory then refreshing their timers to bar your opponent from using them "hoarding".
 
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SoniCraft

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#30
So you can actually make it fly faster than Lucario can at his max aura?
 

Plino

 
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#32
Wow, I didn't know AS's speed was damage dependent... why would they do that? Anyway that's real good then, it just means that Villager can make slightly better use of it to catch Lucario off guard, especially with his bad air speed.
 

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#33
Updated with edge and floor attack damages. I didn't bother adding knockback because I'm going to try and test for base knockback and knockback growth soon, which might render the current values obsolete.
 

Plino

 
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#34
Updated with damage outputs accurate to one decimal place for applicable attacks. Which attacks this applied to was found out by comparing displayed damage outputs for attacks between training mode and the sandbag waiting arena. Since damage outputs have the ceiling taken for display as long as they have a value greater than 0 in the first decimal place in the waiting arena, things like Rising Lloid's strong hit show up as 20%. Training takes the floor of any x.y%, so it shows up as 19%. In reality its 19.2% so there you go. For smash attacks where they have decimal values when fully charged but not when uncharged, I'm going to leave the uncharged values alone. They display the same in both training and the waiting stage, meaning that if I divide their charged values by the smash attack charging multiplier, I'm going to get a 0 in the first decimal place. Meaning that functionally it's irrelevant

I also added HP and lifespans for the timber variations that didn't have them listed

Oh also I added the multiplier for pocket plus. I've seen it listed as x1.3, but I'm pretty sure its actually x1.28

...And now I'm going to retest this all to see if any knockback values, damage values, or tree mechanics changed in v1.0.4. Idk when I'll update with that so stay tuned!

Edit: I just realised I never tested item generation probabilities for the timber variations.... I'm probably not gonna do it for v1.0.3, just v1.0.4 because **** that doing it for one timber took forever
 
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Plino

 
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#35
Okay so I feel this is important enough to warrant another post. Today @Thinkaman posted a thread where he created a script to give us relevant hitbox data by using @Dantarion 's database. I was totally ignorant to the existence of this database, so now I'm going to go to town adding in all sorts of super accurate information to attacks since I can read OSA2 pretty well.

The issue is that I plan on adding the information for ALL hitboxes in attacks. So for example, jab1 has two hitboxes, with different angles, x-offsets, and sizes. What I wanted to know is how you all would like this data presented. Obviously adding it into the table would be incredibly messy, time consuming, and would just plain look ugly and be a chore for people to navigate around. So please post here with suggestions on what you want to see be done. I was thinking of scrapping the tables for visual representations of attacks, though that would be an issue because Dantarion's hitbox viewer still isn't complete and I don't want to use artifact-rich 3DS screenshots.

On the off chance somebody looks at this post before I finish updating the OP

Test

Jabs, Tilts, and Dash Attack​
Attack Hitbox Frame Out Frame Change Duration (Frames) Base Damage (%) Base Angle (Degrees) BKB KBG WKB Misc. Attributes
Jab 1 1 3 2 3 60 10 80 0
2 3 2 3 80 10 80 0
Jab 2 1 3 2 3 60 20 120 0
2 3 2 3 80 20 120 0
FTilt 1 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
2 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
3 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
4 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
UTilt 1.1 7 14 6 105 0 100 60
1.2 7 14 6 105 0 100 60
1.3 7 14 6 96 0 100 12
2.1 24 4 5 80 50 160 0
2.2 24 4 5 80 50 160 0
DTilt 1 9 2 13 80 40 90 0
2 9 2 8 70 40 90 0
Dash Attack 1 2 8 12 10, 6 70 65 60 0 Article
 
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Plino

 
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#36
Just did more accurate testing for Pocket's multiplier. I was able to test without the freshness multiplier and check for projectiles' damage to various decimal points.

Real damage multiplier = ×1.90

I was only off by like .01 not too bad

I'll check Pocket Plus now
 
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TR33

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#37
Okay so I feel this is important enough to warrant another post. Today @Thinkaman posted a thread where he created a script to give us relevant hitbox data by using @Dantarion 's database. I was totally ignorant to the existence of this database, so now I'm going to go to town adding in all sorts of super accurate information to attacks since I can read OSA2 pretty well.

The issue is that I plan on adding the information for ALL hitboxes in attacks. So for example, jab1 has two hitboxes, with different angles, x-offsets, and sizes. What I wanted to know is how you all would like this data presented. Obviously adding it into the table would be incredibly messy, time consuming, and would just plain look ugly and be a chore for people to navigate around. So please post here with suggestions on what you want to see be done. I was thinking of scrapping the tables for visual representations of attacks, though that would be an issue because Dantarion's hitbox viewer still isn't complete and I don't want to use artifact-rich 3DS screenshots.

On the off chance somebody looks at this post before I finish updating the OP

Test

Jabs, Tilts, and Dash Attack​
Attack Hitbox Frame Out Frame Change Duration (Frames) Base Damage (%) Base Angle (Degrees) BKB KBG WKB Misc. Attributes
Jab 1 1 3 2 3 60 10 80 0
2 3 2 3 80 10 80 0
Jab 2 1 3 2 3 60 20 120 0
2 3 2 3 80 20 120 0
FTilt 1 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
2 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
3 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
4 8 4 9 361 30 90 0
UTilt 1.1 7 14 6 105 0 100 60
1.2 7 14 6 105 0 100 60
1.3 7 14 6 96 0 100 12
2.1 24 4 5 80 50 160 0
2.2 24 4 5 80 50 160 0
DTilt 1 9 2 13 80 40 90 0
2 9 2 8 70 40 90 0
Dash Attack 1 2 8 12 10, 6 70 65 60 0 Article
<__< ,uptilt has 5 seperate hitboxes? am I reading that right?
 

Plino

 
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#39
Dammit kofu this thread wasn't supposed to be bumped till I did that announcing complete hitbox data :(

Anyway, that's right, though not in the sense that I feel TR33 thinks. That doesn't mean uUTilt hits 5 separate times. Moves oftentimes have mutliple hitboxes. Since hitboxes are actually spherical, single hitboxes would give moves ridiculous range. Consider FTilt; it has four hitboxes spread out along the umbrella. If it only had one big hitbox, then not only would it have good lateral range, but it would be able to hit targets a significant distance above and below the umbrella.

For this reason, htiboxes are often separated into groups. If two hitboxes belong to the same group and are active concurrently, then only one hitbox will hit, and when this happens, the other will become inert to the same target. So if hitbox 1 hits target 1, then hitbox 2 cannot hit target 1. However, hitbox 2 can hit a target 2. Of course, hitbox 1 can do that too, and if that happens, then hitbox 2 will be inert for that target as well, and so on and so forth. In general, hitboxes can only hit once. For a hitbox to hit again, it either has to have a frame-refresh flag, or simply be destroyed and regenerated.

In this case, the first hit of UTilt has three hitboxes distributed along the length of the stick; one near the base, and two situated at the same spot closer to the top of the stick. One of these tip hitboxes has lower weight-based set knockback though. This is probably to make up for the fact that it only hits aerial targets (if it had the same WBSKB as the other two hits, it wouldn't be as effective as setting up for the second hit since they'd be popped up too far into the air). However, all three of these hitboxes have the same group ID, so you're only going to hit any one opponent with one of them. After a certain amount of frames, the hitboxes are destroyed so that they can be brought back to hit for the second part. On the second hit of UTilt, the base hitbox and the "stronger" tip hitbox are regenerated, though they change to deal less damage and scaling knockback. The weaker, air-target-only hitbox is not brought back.
 
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SoniCraft

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#40
Dammit kofu this thread wasn't supposed to be bumped till I did that announcing complete hitbox data :(

Anyway, that's right, though not in the sense that I feel TR33 thinks. That doesn't mean uUTilt hits 5 separate times. Moves oftentimes have mutliple hitboxes. Since hitboxes are actually spherical, single hitboxes would give moves ridiculous range. Consider FTilt; it has four hitboxes spread out along the umbrella. If it only had one big hitbox, then not only would it have good lateral range, but it would be able to hit targets a significant distance above and below the umbrella.

For this reason, htiboxes are often separated into groups. If two hitboxes belong to the same group and are active concurrently, then only one hitbox will hit, and when this happens, the other will become inert to the same target. So if hitbox 1 hits target 1, then hitbox 2 cannot hit target 1. However, hitbox 2 can hit a target 2. Of course, hitbox 1 can do that too, and if that happens, then hitbox 2 will be inert for that target as well, and so on and so forth. In general, hitboxes can only hit once. For a hitbox to hit again, it either has to have a frame-refresh flag, or simply be destroyed and regenerated.

In this case, the first hit of UTilt has three hitboxes distributed along the length of the stick; one near the base, and two situated at the same spot closer to the top of the stick. One of these tip hitboxes has lower weight-based set knockback though. This is probably to make up for the fact that it only hits aerial targets (if it had the same WBSKB as the other two hits, it wouldn't be as effective as setting up for the second hit since they'd be popped up too far into the air). However, all three of these hitboxes have the same group ID, so you're only going to hit any one opponent with one of them. After a certain amount of frames, the hitboxes are destroyed so that they can be brought back to hit for the second part. On the second hit of UTilt, the base hitbox and the "stronger" tip hitbox are regenerated, though they change to deal less damage and scaling knockback. The weaker, air-target-only hitbox is not brought back.
Excellently explained!
 
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