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Bike Throw Mechanics thread

TheReflexWonder

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I've decided to look at and list the various quirks related to the bike when it's in your hands, rather than under your feet.

Let's get some basic information out of the way. As far as I know, knockback and hitstun doesn't increase based on how much damage the opponent has incurred. For the most part, a bike falling after a bike throw deals about 12% damage. The bike has 26% of "HP". I am not sure how much "damage" the bike incurs on a regular bounce, but, unless you can minimize ground bounces (as in, get only one ground bounce before it breaks), you can get four hits on the opponent with it.

Whenever a bike throw hits an opponent, it bounces up slightly and loses all horizontal momentum it had prior to the hit.

Now that we have that out of the way, on to some new stuff--

The frame data is different for certain throws. Throwing the bike up and down will make an active hitbox earlier, and the amount of cooldown is also shorter on those throws.

Additionally, the bike does much more damage as it's leaving your hand than it does normally, like Melee (Young) Link's boomerang. Normally a bouncing bike deals something like 12% per hit, but, depending on the throw, you can deal up to 27% on the first hit!

Throw standing: Hits on Frame 20, FAF 40
Throw forward: Hits on Frame 20, FAF 40
Throw back: Hits on Frame 20, FAF 40
Throw up: Hits on Frame 14, FAF 30
Throw down: Hits on Frame 14, FAF 30

Each throw has different strengths btw (in case you're interested).

Up: 27%
Down: 25%
Back: 20%
Forward: 20%
Standing: 17%
These numbers work out especially well when you consider the immediate hitboxes of the Up throw and Down throw. The Up throw has the bike almost touching the ground behind Wario...



...and the Down throw has the bike touching the ground in front of Wario.



As a result, a few of the first cooldown frames are protected from immediate retaliation, and the initial hitbox can hurt any opponent on the same ground, no matter their height! A bike throw hitting in this manner will put the opponent in a sticky situation--A spotdodge will not avoid the next bounce, and any attack used will get them hit again. Since you can also attack, if they shield, you get a free grab, which allows you to continue comboing with the bike from there.

Here is a short video showing some basic stuff.

Also, here's some information on bounces caused by slanted ground. I should be adding a video about bouncing potential on slanted ground on the legal stages. For the time being, here are some notes on that--

When the bike lands on most slopes with some momentum, either immediately through a Down throw or eventually through an Up throw or a Forward, standing, or Back throw from above the ground it lands on, the bike will bounce away from the slope and deal ~12% to anything it touches. Down throw and Up throw get the most mileage out of this, because they don't require precise positioning and they cover your general position. Weak and strong bike throws have different bounces in the same way that a bike falling from an aerial Forward-B does; the harder it hits the ground, the further the bounce.

Down throw on a slope allows you to fling a fast, powerful projectile that is relatively difficult to avoid, especially to people who aren't familiar with the bouncing potential of the bike. Depending on the slope, the bike can be bounced at an angle that is very close to the ground, preventing shorter opponents from simply running in to punish with more range than the initial hitbox of the bike. Also, facing toward the high side of the slope makes for a higher-angled bounce than facing away from the slope, so that is worth keeping in mind if you want a great deal of precision.

Up throw can cover potential escape routes of the opponent's by approaching with the bike soon to follow. Worried about getting grabbed by Marth or Dedede during your approach? This will interrupt the opponent. If you get punished by a striking move, the bike will retaliate for you. Find it difficult to cover the air against a Peach? This will keep her place from jumping that you don't have to struggle through that. This should make stages with slants better for counterpicking than we originally thought.

It appears that the bike will not bounce at all if it lands on ground that is at a particularly high angle (~45+ degrees), and if that happens, the bike doesn't take any damage upon hitting the ground. None of this applies to the bike Down throw.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Quick question: can people SDI the bike hit if they are held in your grab/being thrown? Like Bike Hit into Buffered Grab into Bthrow and the bike hits again, can they SDI that hit?
 

xzx

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I have always loved the stages FO, LC and YI. They have slopes. Especially YI. Throwing tires on FO's slopes are great for stage controlling. The bike bounces a little lesser than the tires though...
 

TheReflexWonder

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The bike is a much larger projectile capable of much more damage-dealing on average, however.
 

xzx

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But you can get two tires. Nevertheless, both projectiles will suit specifik situations.
 

TheReflexWonder

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The bike can hit multiple times per throw and covers a greater area on average. That said, of course tires have their own unique advantages, but they're been played out for a while now. It's worth trying to further parts of our game that haven't been fleshed out.
 

xzx

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Yeah, I tend to use the bike as a projectile sometimes (when the right moment comes) a lot. What's nice is that 2 tires pops out after it breaks. But I like using the bike more but the tires are my life savers. But as said, both have their advantages in a specifik situation.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I was thinking about the item pick-up mechanics and wondered how effective it could be used as a way to prevent the opponent from using certain options.

Specifically, Jab, F-Tilt, and D-Tilt are limited, as the commands for these moves will cause any character to pick up the bike instead of attacking if they are in range. Since it's not like we use those moves for most spacing situations, it seems like it would be beneficial to have around us in certain matchups.

For example, Falco's Jab is integral to his spacing and close-range game, and that would be completely unusable if he were near the bike. On a flat stage, lasers cannot hit an unattended bike unless Falco runs off the stage and does a rising laser from under the stage. As a result, Falco has to put himself in a bad position to break the bike without risk.
 

DMG

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Sorta. He could Side B through it
 

TheReflexWonder

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Park the bike somewhat near the edge of the stage, and he won't have any invincibility when he gets to hit it.
 

DMG

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Well there is that...

and are you sure silent lasers don't hit the bike? I just remember thinking a lot time ago about leaving bike out more vs Falco for blocking lasers.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Positive--I messed around with it yesterday to check. He could standing laser, but then he'd be doing standing lasers. :p
 
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