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Best ways to practice Lucas on my own?

darkevilprince295

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
21
Location
United Kingdom
I don't get to play with people very often because of school etc. so I was wondering what is the best way to practice Lucas and still improve? Because playing CPU over and over again only does so much also I do practice a lot of tech skill on shadow moses island with the psi magnet to wave dash and while I wait for the walls to respawn I practice djc but I was wondering if there is any other ways of practicing Lucas?
 

Nayyr

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
23
I'd like to know as well. I mostly just practice movement and edgeguarding bairs. Oh and dacus, I'm getting a lot better with that but still nowhere near close enough to use in a game.
 

darkevilprince295

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
21
Location
United Kingdom
I'd like to know as well. I mostly just practice movement and edgeguarding bairs. Oh and dacus, I'm getting a lot better with that but still nowhere near close enough to use in a game.
What routines do you do to practice movement? I definitely need to work on that. Also I don't know if you knew but Lucas' Dacus when using Z is very precise and hard to do so as the window to perform DACUS is very small. it is easier to do with the regular attack button (A) as it makes the window to perform the DACUS a lot larger but it means holding the controller in a claw position to press A and isn't to easy to do consistently or get used to in my opinion so what I did is I switched the R button to "Attack" since I never use the R button which acts as the A button, making DACUS a heck of a lot easier to do since it has the larger window as the A button gives you but feels as natural as using the Z button. Hope this helps if you didn't know this :)
 

Nayyr

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
23
I'm still doing dacus the old fashioned way. I've got it down pretty well for how little i've been practicing. I can do it maybe 50-60% of the time.
As for movement I usually go to ps2 and do platform wavelands back and forth across the stage, then some consecutive wavelands. Do some magnet > wavedash back on a cpu.
 

darkevilprince295

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
21
Location
United Kingdom
another good movement option that ive been using in my gameplay is magnet pull. and the dacus do you guys not use the c stick?
Yeah I use the C stick. So I dash attack, tilt the control stick up and the c stick down whilst holding R which I have set to attack to act as the A button.
 

Eisen

Smash Ace
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Sep 17, 2009
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When you have no one to play, practice movement as others have said, but only to the extent of finding new options. It's kind of pointless to practice spacing against motionless/unpredictable/bad/etc CPUs as a lot of spacing has to do with knowing what your opponent is going to do. The kinds of spacing you CAN practice are things like knowing the boundaries of your/another character's range on certain moves, especially neutral-game moves (ex: Marth's fair).

Above all, when you're by yourself, I'd practice unique movement options and character exploits, which Lucas has a LOT of. Off the top of my head, I can think of things like magnet pull, dacus, B-reverse, wavebounce, tether cancel, multimagnet, shield pressure options, DJC, up-B ledge techs, shffls, wavedash, dashdance, waveland, mixup options, OOS options (jump > magnet and neutral B burst come to mind),

In tournament, one of my most powerful tools has been that nobody knows what the heck Lucas is actually capable of in terms of movement. Simple things I've learned like Wavebouncing Lucas' magnet randomly in the middle of an approach throws people way the hell off, and being that you can cancel the magnet, it leads to situations like:

Neutral game: dashing approach with Lucas, opponent is trying to get in on you, suddenly you jump and b-reverse magnet, and they're trying to intercept, only to realize you're now going in the opposite direction with full momentum, out of their reach, they whiff, and you can punish with DJC bair, djc PK freeze, DJC nair, etc.

And with Lucas being as scary as he is offensively, these tools are really helpful in driving fear into your opponent.

Edit: Oh also, wavebounce PK Freeze is godlike; people really need to learn how to use it, as it allows Lucas to travel midair like this:

*******************<---
************************\
************************/
*Starting point* --->

and then if you wavebounce magnet you can travel in the opposite direction of that on the way down, which is also the starting direction.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
 
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GHOST4700

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 20, 2014
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145
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Uk, Bristol
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Yeah same I'm still trying to practice wavedashing out of psi magnet the timing is kinda awkward for me. :/
 

darkevilprince295

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
21
Location
United Kingdom
Yeah same I'm still trying to practice wavedashing out of psi magnet the timing is kinda awkward for me. :/
It is very difficult at first and when the psi magnet comes into contact with someone it creates more lag which can throw you off a little. For me I found that the best way to think about it is to try and wave dash too late or later than you think because chances are, you'll underestimate the amount of lag psi magnet has so you will probably get the timing down pretty well.
The best way to practice is to psi magnet to wave dash on the walls on shadow moses island as it simulates the lag as if you hit someone. While you are waiting for the walls to regenerate you can practice double jump cancelling. Hope this helps and good luck! :)
 
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Nayyr

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
23
When you have no one to play, practice movement as others have said, but only to the extent of finding new options. It's kind of pointless to practice spacing against motionless/unpredictable/bad/etc CPUs as a lot of spacing has to do with knowing what your opponent is going to do. The kinds of spacing you CAN practice are things like knowing the boundaries of your/another character's range on certain moves, especially neutral-game moves (ex: Marth's fair).

Above all, when you're by yourself, I'd practice unique movement options and character exploits, which Lucas has a LOT of. Off the top of my head, I can think of things like magnet pull, dacus, B-reverse, wavebounce, tether cancel, multimagnet, shield pressure options, DJC, up-B ledge techs, shffls, wavedash, dashdance, waveland, mixup options, OOS options (jump > magnet and neutral B burst come to mind),

In tournament, one of my most powerful tools has been that nobody knows what the heck Lucas is actually capable of in terms of movement. Simple things I've learned like Wavebouncing Lucas' magnet randomly in the middle of an approach throws people way the hell off, and being that you can cancel the magnet, it leads to situations like:

Neutral game: dashing approach with Lucas, opponent is trying to get in on you, suddenly you jump and b-reverse magnet, and they're trying to intercept, only to realize you're now going in the opposite direction with full momentum, out of their reach, they whiff, and you can punish with DJC bair, djc PK freeze, DJC nair, etc.

And with Lucas being as scary as he is offensively, these tools are really helpful in driving fear into your opponent.

Edit: Oh also, wavebounce PK Freeze is godlike; people really need to learn how to use it, as it allows Lucas to travel midair like this:

*******************<---
************************\
************************/
*Starting point* --->

and then if you wavebounce magnet you can travel in the opposite direction of that on the way down, which is also the starting direction.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
I was wondering if you could elaborate on a few things. When you say wavebounce pkf do you mean djc pkf?
also what is/how do you do B-reverse, wavebounce, tether cancel, up-B ledge techs?
 

Eisen

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I was wondering if you could elaborate on a few things. When you say wavebounce pkf do you mean djc pkf?
also what is/how do you do B-reverse, wavebounce, tether cancel, up-B ledge techs?
I may have this wrong but I think the differences between wavebounce and b-reverse is that b-reverse simply changes the direction you to the B move in, keeping your momentum while going backwards (in the air), whereas wavebounces keeps your momentum but changes it to the opposite direction.

For Lucas, try running and then jumping into magnet.

Then, try running, jumping, pressing Down B, and quickly moving the control stick to the bottom left if you're moving to the right, or to the bottom right if you're moving to the left. If done right, you should then change directions with the magnet AND keep moving, so you'll actually go backwards from your original start point. This is a wavebounce.

The inputs should look something like this.
(Dashing to the right):GCR: > :GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCD:+:GCB:) > (hold B) > :GCDL:
(Dashing to the left):GCL:>:GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCD:+:GCB:) > (hold B) > :GCDR:

B-reversing, however, would ignore the initial down B input in the first place. To B-reverse magnet, simply do this:

(dashing to the right) :GCR: > :GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCDL:+:GCB:)
(Dashing to the left):GCL: > :GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCDR:+:GCB:)

Notice that you don't press :GCD: at all, just :GCDR:/:GCDL:. You should notice that with the wavebounce method, you'll move opposite the direction you came, whereas here, you keep moving in the initial direction.

And no, by wavebounce PKF I did not mean DJC PKF. In order to wavebounce PKF, you have to be dashing (I'll use moving to the right only for this example), and then:

:GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCB:+:GCR:)>very quickly(:GCL:)

You need to change the direction of your c-stick very quickly or else you'll just jump forward in a straight line as you PKF. This method allows you to suddenly change the direction your PKF comes out, as well as your direction.

I'll try to upload some gifs of these later, but I hope this helps.

As for Tether cancelling, it's simply pressing the control stick away from the stage after you tether, but before you "reel it up". You will go back to normal fall, and can do any aerial move out of it (including down B).

Up B Ledge techs? I assume you mean where you carry your momentum while using PK Thunder? If so, that's just done by dashing off a platform/edge and up-Bing as you near the edge/side of a platform.
 

Nayyr

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
23
Thanks! That actually helps a lot. I've done the b reverse and the wavebounce magnet before, just never knew how i was doing it differently.
As for the up b ledge tech, I just saw you post that, I had no idea what you meant which is why I asked.

Another question if you don't mind answering. What do you like to do as a followup to a djc pkf hitting? If I'm close enough I usually try to fsmash (which sometimes ends up as a dash attack unfortunately), or if they're at upthrow percent I try to go for a grab as they're falling.
 

Eisen

Smash Ace
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Sep 17, 2009
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Thanks! That actually helps a lot. I've done the b reverse and the wavebounce magnet before, just never knew how i was doing it differently.
As for the up b ledge tech, I just saw you post that, I had no idea what you meant which is why I asked.

Another question if you don't mind answering. What do you like to do as a followup to a djc pkf hitting? If I'm close enough I usually try to fsmash (which sometimes ends up as a dash attack unfortunately), or if they're at upthrow percent I try to go for a grab as they're falling.
Depends on the situation, really. PKF is such an open-ended move because if you hit-confirm it, the opponent has done something really wrong, and thus their punishment is being immobile for a good while. Honestly, do whatever you personally get the most damage out of. However, I wouldn't recommend going for a smash, simply because once you smash the following-up ends there. Of course if they're at higher percents, that'd be different. By all means when your opponent is at high percent, any smash/dacus or grab into upthrow/dthrow-bair are good options. Something like an aerial setup or magnet will do most generally well I'd say, however.
 

Badge

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
186
I may have this wrong but I think the differences between wavebounce and b-reverse is that b-reverse simply changes the direction you to the B move in, keeping your momentum while going backwards (in the air), whereas wavebounces keeps your momentum but changes it to the opposite direction.
What you're calling a B-Reverse is called Turnaround-B (or sometimes Reverse B, but Reversal-B is used to refer to B-Reversals, so it's awfully confusing): Turning around by using a special attack without changing your momentum.
B-Reverse or B-Reversal is what you're referring to as wavebounce: Turning around while using a special and reversing your momentum.
A Wavebounce (or Reverse B-Reversal/RBR) finally is combining the two to reverse your momentum without turning around. You use a Turnaround-B to look into the opposite direction and then during the startup of the move do a B-Reverse to look into the same direction as before the Special but with momentum in the opposite direction.

In order to wavebounce PKF, you have to be dashing
Just for the record: You don't need to be dashing, just moving in a direction. Wavebounces/b-reverses can also be used in combination with DJing during DJC PKFs to get some pretty crazy flight paths.
 

victinivcreate1

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Spam techskill.
That is how you play Lucas. Spam tech skill and win bruh.

Eisen said it in better detail though.
 

TheAlchemist

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Saturn
I may have this wrong but I think the differences between wavebounce and b-reverse is that b-reverse simply changes the direction you to the B move in, keeping your momentum while going backwards (in the air), whereas wavebounces keeps your momentum but changes it to the opposite direction.

For Lucas, try running and then jumping into magnet.

Then, try running, jumping, pressing Down B, and quickly moving the control stick to the bottom left if you're moving to the right, or to the bottom right if you're moving to the left. If done right, you should then change directions with the magnet AND keep moving, so you'll actually go backwards from your original start point. This is a wavebounce.

The inputs should look something like this.
(Dashing to the right):GCR: > :GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCD:+:GCB:) > (hold B) > :GCDL:
(Dashing to the left):GCL:>:GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCD:+:GCB:) > (hold B) > :GCDR:

B-reversing, however, would ignore the initial down B input in the first place. To B-reverse magnet, simply do this:

(dashing to the right) :GCR: > :GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCDL:+:GCB:)
(Dashing to the left):GCL: > :GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCDR:+:GCB:)

Notice that you don't press :GCD: at all, just :GCDR:/:GCDL:. You should notice that with the wavebounce method, you'll move opposite the direction you came, whereas here, you keep moving in the initial direction.

And no, by wavebounce PKF I did not mean DJC PKF. In order to wavebounce PKF, you have to be dashing (I'll use moving to the right only for this example), and then:

:GCY:/:GCX:> (:GCB:+:GCR:)>very quickly(:GCL:)

You need to change the direction of your c-stick very quickly or else you'll just jump forward in a straight line as you PKF. This method allows you to suddenly change the direction your PKF comes out, as well as your direction.

I'll try to upload some gifs of these later, but I hope this helps.

As for Tether cancelling, it's simply pressing the control stick away from the stage after you tether, but before you "reel it up". You will go back to normal fall, and can do any aerial move out of it (including down B).

Up B Ledge techs? I assume you mean where you carry your momentum while using PK Thunder? If so, that's just done by dashing off a platform/edge and up-Bing as you near the edge/side of a platform.

This is nice.. exactly what i needed.. Could you like.. make a guide? lol.. After i read more of your posts.. the more i realize that i dont actually know **** about lucas.
 

Eisen

Smash Ace
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Sep 17, 2009
Messages
662
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Planet Tallon IV
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I'll see about making some videos. I'm not sure when I'll be able to put them out, since I may be receiving some medical help soon and may not have internet/PM access, but I guess it's something to do when I'm bored.

What all do you want covered? Like, just that tech? Or do you really need a full Lucas guide? I'm not the best Lucas or even close, so... it may prove kind of futile if I make a full guide?
 
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TheAlchemist

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Saturn
I'll see about making some videos. I'm not sure when I'll be able to put them out, since I may be receiving some medical help soon and may not have internet/PM access, but I guess it's something to do when I'm bored.

What all do you want covered? Like, just that tech? Or do you really need a full Lucas guide? I'm not the best Lucas or even close, so... it may prove kind of futile if I make a full guide?
Oh I was just wondering. But yeah, it would be more of a tech guide than a full guide.. i feel like i just need to understand Lucas tech more because i already know the "basics".

Hope you feel better soon dude.. sorry to hear about any medical issue qq..
 

Scraket

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
632
Location
NorCal
Oh I was just wondering. But yeah, it would be more of a tech guide than a full guide.. i feel like i just need to understand Lucas tech more because i already know the "basics".

Hope you feel better soon dude.. sorry to hear about any medical issue qq..
well if you need a guide to double jump canceling check out this one by the lucas guru 8adge [Project M] Lucas Tutorial: DJC Aerials - YouTube
not sure how much exactly you know about lucas but there are plenty of us around to help :b:
 
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