Best monitor for melee?

[Drodeka]

Due to small space and a desire to play in HD, I'm wondering what will be the best low lag monitor for me to play some Melee on would be.
My price range is around $200-250
Any help and input is appreciated, especially from ppl with hd monitor playing experience.

 

[Pauer]

If your budget allows it, get the Asus VG248QE. It was tested to have the lowest amount of input lag from a variety of monitors, including several others 144hz 1ms monitors. It's also not too expensive compared to other 144hz monitors.
I have it and can recommend it to anyone who can afford it, not just for melee but for gaming in general. 144hz makes THAT much of a difference! It's also the monitor that Kadano recommends.

 

[Cry1]

Would an actual CRT monitor be better?

 

[Pauer]

Would an actual CRT monitor be better?

Yeah but from what i can tell, he asked for a recommendation for an LCD Monitor.

 

[verbatim]

If your budget allows it, get the Asus VG248QE. It was tested to have the lowest amount of input lag from a variety of monitors, including several others 144hz 1ms monitors. It's also not too expensive compared to other 144hz monitors.
I have it and can recommend it to anyone who can afford it, not just for melee but for gaming in general. 144hz makes THAT much of a difference! It's also the monitor that Kadano recommends.

IK this is a necro but that monitor doesn't have a component port?

Regardless, a frame is 16ms, so long as your latency is below that there will be no difference between it and a CRT.

 

[Pauer]

IK this is a necro but that monitor doesn't have a component port?

There are adapters for the Wii that have little input lag. Kadano and I tested a generic hdmi adapter for the wii with my vg248qe and it was playable. We had about an additional frame of input lag on that setup compared to a CRT, but you could adjust to it very quickly.

I wouldn't buy the monitor for using it like that though. The thread's OP asked about playing in HD, which I assumed meant using dolphin (PC) for playing. That is where the high 120hz refresh rate of the monitor actually makes a big difference and justifies the price.

Regardless, a frame is 16ms, so long as your latency is below that there will be no difference between it and a CRT

This is not true. I see where you might be getting this idea from, since if the latency is below 16ms, there isn't always a difference between a CRT and LCD Monitor because they might both show the same frame. However, the LCD will show some frames delayed by 1 whole frame, 16ms.
In this article you can find some visualizations and evaluations on the input lag of gaming monitors, as well as some general info to your question.

 

[Vhozek]

There are adapters for the Wii that have little input lag. Kadano and I tested a generic hdmi adapter for the wii with my vg248qe and it was playable. We had about an additional frame of input lag on that setup compared to a CRT, but you could adjust to it very quickly.

I wouldn't buy the monitor for using it like that though. The thread's OP asked about playing in HD, which I assumed meant using dolphin (PC) for playing. That is where the high 120hz refresh rate of the monitor actually makes a big difference and justifies the price.



This is not true. I see where you might be getting this idea from, since if the latency is below 16ms, there isn't always a difference between a CRT and LCD Monitor because they might both show the same frame. However, the LCD will show some frames delayed by 1 whole frame, 16ms.
In this article you can find some visualizations and evaluations on the input lag of gaming monitors, as well as some general info to your question.

I know I'm late, but I'm planning on buying a monitor sometime soon. Is there any 1440p monitor as good as the one Kadano recommended?

 

[Pauer]

First off, it would be best to get yourself a crt monitor that you use for melee and get a separate 1440p monitor since the monitor I will recommend below is quite expensive.

If you really want to have something comparable to the VG248QE, you definitely need a high refresh rate monitor, meaning 120hz+, ideally with a TN panel (poorer color accuracy but faster response times compared to IPS panels) . My recommendation would be to go for the Acer XB270HUbprz which has a WQHD IPS Screen and a 144hz refresh rate. It was tested by prad.de (excellent german review site) to have an average total latency of only about 5.5ms on average at 144hz and with the overdrive setting on "normal", which is only about 3-4ms more than the VG248QE.
There are many 144hz monitors with a TN panel out there that have similar latency but godawful colors so these results are excellent for an IPS panel.

Edit: I wrote a bit more about CRT monitors here

 

[ＪｎＬ]

If your budget allows it, get the Asus VG248QE. It was tested to have the lowest amount of input lag from a variety of monitors, including several others 144hz 1ms monitors. It's also not too expensive compared to other 144hz monitors.
I have it and can recommend it to anyone who can afford it, not just for melee but for gaming in general. 144hz makes THAT much of a difference! It's also the monitor that Kadano recommends.

Is there much difference if I get a Acer GN246HL? It is the affordable way, and It is also 144hz and according to comparisons and benchmarks, both works well and has 1ms as seen; so apparently are the same.

 

[Kerghan]

For information, I bought the Asus VG248QE hooked in HDMI to a gamecube through eon GCHD adapter.

HDMI port is 60hz but there's no lag at all on this monitor : I definitly recommend it for melee !

 

[Pauer]

For information, I bought the Asus VG248QE hooked in HDMI to a gamecube through eon GCHD adapter.

HDMI port is 60hz but there's no lag at all on this monitor : I definitly recommend it for melee !

When you hook it up directly like that, there will always be some lag due to some small processing delay from the Monitor because it's an LCD, even if the input is already digital. Kadano and I measured the lag in this kind of setup and it was rather low, less than a frame on average and when we playtested it, the setup felt quite playable but it's not as good as using Faster Melee (Dolphin) on a PC and playing in 120hz.

Is there much difference if I get a Acer GN246HL? It is the affordable way, and It is also 144hz and according to comparisons and benchmarks, both works well and has 1ms as seen; so apparently are the same.

According to test results, the Acer GN246HL has particularly bad input lag for a 144hz monitor at an average of above 10ms. This might come as a surprise to you, let me explain:

Unfortunately, there are two components to the total input lag.
The signal processing delay and the pixel response time. The first is the time it takes for the LCD to process the signal and tell the pixels how to move. The latter is the time it takes for the pixels to move once they are told to move.
The thing you see advertised on the Monitor as "1ms" is only the pixel response time and there are multiple ways of measuring response time. The Acer GN246HL unfortunately has particularly bad signal processing delay and a much lower than advertised pixel response time in all tests, except one.
Below you can find graphs detailing the reponse time and processing delay as tested by the reputable german website prad.de. Just by looking at the graphs, I am sure you can see the difference between the two monitors. You can also check out the source - it is in german but you can use google translate or see if the review is also available in english as they do translate some of their articles.

Spoiler: Acer GN246HL

Source

Spoiler: Asus VG248QE

Source

 

[ＪｎＬ]

Pauer And someone else said on reddit the Acer GN246HL monitor has ghosting problem, then seeing this Shaltzeiten graphic measures explains everything, that convinced me a lot.

At this point, also monitors like BenQ/Zowie RL2455HM (which has less hz) are almost no longer better, and it is being useless bit by bit... that's why prices drops outrageously.

Anyways, thanks for all this reseach measures! I owe you one!

For information, I bought the Asus VG248QE hooked in HDMI to a gamecube through eon GCHD adapter.

HDMI port is 60hz but there's no lag at all on this monitor : I definitly recommend it for melee !

The Asus VG248QE and the VG278QE, or I mean "27' inches" makes the difference?? I know it has different price, but my doubt it's about the lag. I thought to opt for a 27' inches, because I see 24' Inches it will be less expensive but looks a lil' bit tiny.

When you hook it up directly like that, there will always be some lag due to some small processing delay from the Monitor because it's an LCD, even if the input is already digital. Kadano and I measured the lag in this kind of setup and it was rather low, less than a frame on average and when we playtested it, the setup felt quite playable but it's not as good as using Faster Melee (Dolphin) on a PC and playing in 120hz.

Faster Melee is kinda obviously that has LESS input lag than the old and fatty CRT TVs (thank you TruckJitsu), so between the VG248QE it might be a tie; and could be an equivalent replacement. So, In my case, I can no longer carry heavy CRTs 'cause I have less space in my dusty house and dusty weather.

Furthermore, I have a 2003/2004 Gamecube monitor (Analog LCD) screen (such as Intec or Team5 brand), tested and hooked with a CRT as example, and I confirm no lag. Otherwise, every people has different muscle memories.

And the last thing is, If a GC + GCVideo hooked on the VG248QE causes some lag, it shall be between 1ms or 1.5ms no more, and for me it is acceptable to train yourself at home as a personal preference.

 

[EncoreEsportsUSA]

Useful post! thanks

 

[SubduedHypeSmash]

If I'm using the VG248QE, does DisplayPort vs DVI make a difference for input lag?

 

[Pauer]

If I'm using the VG248QE, does DisplayPort vs DVI make a difference for input lag?

It should make no difference as long as you are using a dual link DVI cable (whether it is DVI-I or DVI-D doesn't matter). Only dual link DVI has enough bandwidth to display 1080p at 144hz.

edit: make sure that the graphics card supports dual link DVI as well (see if the connector has the same pin-layout as in the diagram I posted above).
I've used both cables with my own VG248QE and I prefer Displayport because it has a nicer connector and no screws.

 

[SubduedHypeSmash]

It should make no difference as long as you are using a dual link DVI cable (whether it is DVI-I or DVI-D doesn't matter). Only dual link DVI has enough bandwidth to display 1080p at 144hz.

edit: make sure that the graphics card supports dual link DVI as well (see if the connector has the same pin-layout as in the diagram I posted above).
I've used both cables with my own VG248QE and I prefer Displayport because it has a nicer connector and no screws.

Perfect, I'll simply stick to DisplayPort then.

 

[Hunter434]

If your budget allows it, get the Asus VG248QE. It was tested to have the lowest amount of input lag from a variety of monitors, including several others 144hz 1ms monitors. It's also not too expensive compared to other 144hz monitors.
I have it and can recommend it to anyone who can afford it, not just for melee but for gaming in general. 144hz makes THAT much of a difference! It's also the monitor that Kadano recommends.

If I buy the ASUS VG248QE can I just use HDMI and have that be acceptable? Also would I need faster melee set to anything above 60 fps? Thanks for all your contributions to this thread!

 

[Pauer]

can I just use HDMI and have that be acceptable?

Unfortunately, the VG248QE does not support displaying 1080p at more than 60hz with HDMI because it still uses an old HDMI connector that cannot transmit that kind of bandwidth. You can run it with displayport or with dual link DVI (DVI comparison). Make sure that your graphics card also has the matching connector.

Also would I need faster melee set to anything above 60 fps?

No, the game can only run at 60 fps. The PC will nevertheless transmit the image at 144 or 120hz refresh rate (I recommend 120hz to eliminate screen tearing), so although only 60 frames are drawn a second, you will see them earlier on average than with a 60hz screen.

 

[flamingo!]

If my PC doesn't deal with more than 60hz, can't imput lag be eliminated even if I get VG248QE?

 

[Pauer]

If my PC doesn't deal with more than 60hz

If the PC can't output more than 60 hz, then it doesn't make sense to buy the VG248QE. The VG248QE still has lower input lag than most other monitors at 60hz but there are many monitors that perform just as well for much less money, like the BenQ RL2455HM.

However, all graphics cards/integrated graphics that I have encountered so far had the ability to output in more than 60 hz, but only if they have either a displayport or a dual link DVI port (see my reply above for more info). Only those two ports provide enough bandwidth to transmit the video signal.
If you are unsure, post a picture of the video ports on your PC here and also post your system specs. If you don't know how to find them, use google to find out how or you can use this site.

 

[flamingo!]

If the PC can't output more than 60 hz, then it doesn't make sense to buy the VG248QE. The VG248QE still has lower input lag than most other monitors at 60hz but there are many monitors that perform just as well for much less money, like the BenQ RL2455HM.

However, all graphics cards/integrated graphics that I have encountered so far had the ability to output in more than 60 hz, but only if they have either a displayport or a dual link DVI port (see my reply above for more info). Only those two ports provide enough bandwidth to transmit the video signal.
If you are unsure, post a picture of the video ports on your PC here and also post your system specs. If you don't know how to find them, use google to find out how or you can use this site.

Oh, my PC doesn't have displayport or a dual link DVI port, has only HDMI port.
Should I buy new one? Then what point of PC specs should I pay attention to? I wish that one not expensive...

 

[Pauer]

Oh, my PC doesn't have displayport or a dual link DVI port, has only HDMI port.
Should I buy new one? Then what point of PC specs should I pay attention to? I wish that one not expensive...

Is it a desktop pc? If so I would recommend you to just install a new graphics card. Please also make sure that you can run the latest version of FasterMelee with your current setup. Dolphin and faster melee have very low graphics requirements but they need high single core CPU performance. That's why Intel CPUs generally perform better because they tend to have higher single core performance whereas AMD prioritizes core/thread count.
Based off my own testing with different hardware as well as anecdotes from others about which CPUs were able to handle Dolphin/FM, it seems that the threshold for being able to play is at about a 1200-1300 single thread rating score over at cpubenchmarks.com (example benchmark | single thread rating: 1747).

I'm not sure if you're aware but unfortunately graphics cards can also introduce lag. Kadano tested different graphics cards a while back (link) and older AMD cards as well as certain integrated graphics (Intel HD graphics, etc.) seem to introduce delay as well.
There's not a lot of data on different cards but it seems that graphics cards from the Nvidia gtx 900 series are definitely a safe bet.
I'd recommend finding a used gtx 950, you should be able to find one for 80$ or less.
Installing it is very easy as it is a low power card meaning you just need to put it inside a slot on your PC. There are lots of tutorial for it out there, it's a 2 min procedure once you know what to do, I recommend this tutorial.

 

[flamingo!]

Is it a desktop pc? If so I would recommend you to just install a new graphics card. Please also make sure that you can run the latest version of FasterMelee with your current setup. Dolphin and faster melee have very low graphics requirements but they need high single core CPU performance. That's why Intel CPUs generally perform better because they tend to have higher single core performance whereas AMD prioritizes core/thread count.
Based off my own testing with different hardware as well as anecdotes from others about which CPUs were able to handle Dolphin/FM, it seems that the threshold for being able to play is at about a 1200-1300 single thread rating score over at cpubenchmarks.com (example benchmark | single thread rating: 1747).

I'm not sure if you're aware but unfortunately graphics cards can also introduce lag. Kadano tested different graphics cards a while back (link) and older AMD cards as well as certain integrated graphics (Intel HD graphics, etc.) seem to introduce delay as well.
There's not a lot of data on different cards but it seems that graphics cards from the Nvidia gtx 900 series are definitely a safe bet.
I'd recommend finding a used gtx 950, you should be able to find one for 80$ or less.
Installing it is very easy as it is a low power card meaning you just need to put it inside a slot on your PC. There are lots of tutorial for it out there, it's a 2 min procedure once you know what to do, I recommend this tutorial.

Thank you for the detailed explanation! Single thread rating is 1578 but My PC is laptop so I think I can't install new graphics dards, I'm sorry for not my explanation enough. And it seems that not my graphics card but my PC itself can't output more than 60hz.

I didn't know Intel HD graphics introduses delay! It might be one of the reason for my feeling lag.(I use Intel HD graphics 4000)

So, do I have to buy new PC?

 

[ＪｎＬ]

When you hook it up directly like that, there will always be some lag due to some small processing delay from the Monitor because it's an LCD, even if the input is already digital. Kadano and I measured the lag in this kind of setup and it was rather low, less than a frame on average and when we playtested it, the setup felt quite playable but it's not as good as using Faster Melee (Dolphin) on a PC and playing in 120hz.


According to test results, the Acer GN246HL has particularly bad input lag for a 144hz monitor at an average of above 10ms. This might come as a surprise to you, let me explain:

Unfortunately, there are two components to the total input lag.
The signal processing delay and the pixel response time. The first is the time it takes for the LCD to process the signal and tell the pixels how to move. The latter is the time it takes for the pixels to move once they are told to move.
The thing you see advertised on the Monitor as "1ms" is only the pixel response time and there are multiple ways of measuring response time. The Acer GN246HL unfortunately has particularly bad signal processing delay and a much lower than advertised pixel response time in all tests, except one.
Below you can find graphs detailing the reponse time and processing delay as tested by the reputable german website prad.de. Just by looking at the graphs, I am sure you can see the difference between the two monitors. You can also check out the source - it is in german but you can use google translate or see if the review is also available in english as they do translate some of their articles.

Spoiler: Acer GN246HL

Source

Spoiler: Asus VG248QE

Source

So what about the BenQ XL2411P compared to Asus VG248QE??