Be the Best Steve you can be! (Moveset Strategy Discussion)

[pupNapoleon]

The best selling game of all time, Minecraft, has gotten into the battle!
As the game progresses, it will be a lot of fun to see the best strategies to use with him.

 

[MAtgSy]

FFA stock, hide behind a wall while everyone else kills each other.

 

[Janx_uwu]

In terms of 1v1, he'll probably be great at a distance and not-so-great for up close combat, unless he has an amazing up smash, up tilt or f tilt we haven't seen yet.
I think the flint and steel was his down tilt? Yeah it had to be because Mine would be his down smash and Craft would be his neutral b. We have a confirmed bair (weapon), dair (anvil), fair (weapon) and uair (weapon). Not exactly sure what nair will be. I'll rewatch it here soon anyways to see what I can dissect. Not looking at combos or knockback until the presentation, right now I just want to know what each move does.
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't they use multiple weapons other than the different swords? I could've sworn I saw an axe and a pickaxe. They'll probably have different specialties, is my guess. axe does the most damage, sword does the most knockback, pickaxe gets you better mining materials when you mine. I doubt the other two MC tools will appear as that would make the menu for Crafting really clunky.
I assume Crafting will be streamlined, here's how I'd imagine it would work: you bring up a menu of weapons, and the only ones shown are the ones you have materials for. You swap between them like Hero's Command Menu and press A or B when you choose the one you want, and R/L/ZR/ZL when you want to cancel it.
I assume you'll only be able to place four blocks, maybe five. I'm sure Sakurai realizes how easy it will be to ledgetrap with that move and will probably implement some kind of mechanic that keeps you from doing that. Some hitboxes will probably go through them-like how in Arena Ferox, you can do something like Byleth fsmash through the middle wall and hit your opponent on the other side. So he's not completely harmless in there. It will definitely be very good for baiting out and punishing jumps over the wall.
His down smash might pour lava at the ledge, which would just be incredibly annoying-Ness yoyo on steroids.
He might struggle a bit with killing, but we haven't seen too many kill moves yet so it's impossible to tell.
TNT looks busted. Makes me think Steve will play somewhat like Snake.
I can imagine a good setup for edgeguards and kills would be minecart (carries them off the edge before they pop out) followed up with a fair, capitalizing on the lag they get from hopping out of the minecart.
Taunts (the best part of any character's moveset) look like they'll be head bopping, the Symbol Of Peace (or maybe that's just a crouch) and something else.
Yeah, I think that's everything.
[EDIT 10/2: Noticed some interesting things today rewatching the trailer. First of all, Steve can be harmed by his own TNT-probably would've guessed it but it's nice to know for sure now.
Second, when he uses Elytra, he falls onto the ground and is placed into a tech situation, like Banjo's aerial Wonderwing with no golden feathers. Whether or not he can tech it is impossible to know right now, but it does seem he'll have access to getup attack, normal getup, roll left and roll fight.
Next, his Final Smash will stun people with the initial hit (the block part of the piston) before pushing out, seems like it's about the range of Min Min's Final Smash.
Also, this could definitely be an error in translation, but here's what I got from Sakurai in the English US version.
"Making everything work well together in the game, including their physical attacks and short reach, will be extremely hard."
So it seems as though Steve will be a character that is strong up close with tools he can use to zone-making him pretty versatile. Makes sense if you have a character that needs to spend much of the time mining materials and crafting with them that you want to give them good defense tools for doing so.
When the presentation happens, I'll put my initial thoughts here and when I've got a larger grasp on how he works, I'll put it all in this thread. It might have to be later in the day, or even the following day due to homework, but I'll try to put my analysis out as fast as I can.]

 

[Janx_uwu]

Posted this in the 10/3 analysis thread but might as well put it here too, especially considering that thread will become useless within the next couple of days. Didn't look at raw damage, frame data, or knockback since it was recorded two months ago and analyzing every tiny detail just seems redundant.
His jab/ftilt/nair looks pretty cool. You essentially get to carry your opponent forward a bit. The usefulness of this will probably depend on whether or not it can combo into things like grab or up tilt (which can combo into up smash, which can probably combo into other stuff too). I'd assume the max amount of times it can hit your opponent would be three to four, probably a lot more on super heavyweights.
Down tilt might be his best normal, honestly. It's PK Fire, but with a shorter range, faster, doesn't need a hit to activate, and can edgeguard better. Honestly this will lead to some pretty cheesy kills. If it can combo into his forward smash and/or aerials, than we have an amazing tool on our hands.
Up tilt and up air looks like an upward-facing jab. Not much to say other than it combos into up smash, which looks like a pretty good move honestly. I think up smash can combo? I'll rewatch it here in a bit.
Then we have the dash attack. Just looks like a mediocre movement option that might be pretty strong with enough leveling up of materials. Maybe it's fast in the final product however.
Forward smash: It's strong and it's fast, not much more to say.
Down smash: It sends at a low angle and has high knockback. Even Sakurai showed us how we can use it as a very effective edgeguard in conjunction with Block. Will probably be used the most out of his smashes.
Up smash: If it can combo, then this is an amazing move. If not, then it's probably just a mostly inoffensive kill move. Will be nice to have an upwards attack that isn't the axe.
Forward air: On it's own, seems like a really good spike. But in conjunction with Block, or Minecart, or down throw-oh, this move will be amazing. Imagine sending your opponent off with Minecart and following them to spike them out of it and into the abyss.
Back air: Same thing but it's not as funny, yet probably the better move.
Down air: Seems like a decent move. Doesn't have a spike hitbox though, so generally it won't be worth the extra iron unless you're sure you can hit them.
Up throw: It's a kill move, apparently. You'll likely not want to use it until kill percent since Steve's anti-air options don't look good in the slightest.
Forward throw: Sends them offstage and at a low angle and it can kill. Probably his best throw since it seems like when Steve has the high ground he does super well.
Down throw: Unless Mr. Sakurai was lying (you cheeky son of a gun, you!), down throw combos into fair. I shouldn't need to tell you why that's amazing if you've read this far. Consumes iron but is most definitely worth it.
Back throw: Looks bad. Just puts them above you and isn't a kill throw, so why would you ever want to do it?
B (Mine): Lylat Cruise is now Steve's best stage, I guess. Yeah, seems as though the hardest part of this move will be knowing when to stop, you'll have to keep an eye on both your meter and your opponent. Looks good overall, too early to talk about the whole stage gimmick imo.
B (Craft): From what I could tell, you sit there for half a second and it makes your weapons better. Sounds like a good deal to me.
B (Block): Oh. My. God. This move is godlike. You can use it for:
Edgeguarding (invalidates slower, linear, and vertical recoveries)
Ledgetrapping (can force your opponent to jump, in which you can cover it with up air or use another block to jump up and fair/bair)
Mixups (basically playing a game of 2D Fortnite)
Landing (since his air speed and landing options seem poor, this helps a ton. You can even use it to walk to the other side of the stage and just drop to that ledge with canceled dair)
Zoning (place a wall to bait out a jump, place a few in front of you to defend against rushdown characters)
And most importantly-building L's, obscene hand gestures and other taunting images that can double as an edgeguard. If you can make suggestive images to win matches, then this might be the most insulting and rage-inducing character yet.
So yeah, his best move will be Block don't @ me
Down B: Yeah, to me it seems like this will be very useful in conjunction with Block to set up traps (yet again another reminder that Block is one of the best moves in the game). Damaging it also sets the TNT off, so like Pac's hydrant, we should find out the health of this object and which moves are best to detonate it, preferably with us not dying in the process.
Side B: Not sure if it's a command grab or a hit grab (won't grab through shields like Joker's grappling hook). Either way it will be very strong for burst options, since Steve's movement speed is not anything amazing. It will also be good for edgeguards with the grab.
Up B: They took out gliding in Sm4sh for the sole reason that it was OP, so if they're bringing it back they must have balanced it somehow. So yeah, not great on its own most likely, but since Block gives you back your double jump (which is amazing), they can work together pretty dang well.
Taunts: They look really cool. Although since I am a man of class, I'd rather flip the bird to my opponent using Block (like I said, amazing move).
Final Smash: Amazing range, but looks to be not as good for groups of people. Either way it's an amazing final smash.

So, what do I think of Steve and Alex overall?
Well I think they excel in lots of areas, namely edgeguarding, ledgetrapping, setting up traps, baiting, and annoying the opponent. However they seem like they won't do as great when it comes to other things. They are pretty slow and their jump and DJ are not very good at all, might even be worse than Snake's. Air speed may not seem like a big deal, but when you consider Kirby, a character who has a super slow air speed despite doing great in many other factors...yeah, let's just say tier lists don't do him any favors. This may be a mute point since things are bound to change, but since it's supposed to reflect the game as much as possible I doubt it. They also don't have a very good anti-air game, it seems like. However things like Block and Minecart are tools that can help them in these areas. So overall, they have potential to be top tier definitely, but we'll just have to wait and see. At worst they have awful frame data which makes them a low mid tier, around the likes of DDD or K Rool.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I'm not sure if Steve will be top tier, but I believe he will be upper mid-tier. He has a lot of noticeable match up advantages. Seems like his building mechanic can put a top tier like Pikachu in their place if used correctly/skillfully. Ness and Lucas may also be at a major disadvantage with his down tilt and building mechanic (if Ness' PK Thunder hits a block, undoubtedly he will immediately freefall).

Steve, however, is also short-ranged and I can see him having a lot of trouble against rush-down speedy characters. For instance, if I'm playing as Sonic and I'm fighting Steve, the first thing I'm going to do is stop him from collecting resources at the start of the match. The good thing for Steve is that he can teleport the crafting table around, but players still have to keep in mind that faster characters are going to try and stop him from getting diamond tools.

I can see the Elytra not being the best recovery in certain match ups. It's a very slow recovery, but its mobility makes up for that. However, good mobility may not mean anything to a character with great aerials like Ike and Shulk.

Overall, I think he'll be an even mid-tier at the end of the day. Absolutely dominating against certain characters, but also struggling against others due to his slowness and short-ranged mechanics. Maybe he can become top tier if people fully realize the possibilities of his moveset.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

As said by others, Steve's downfall will be characters who can rush him down. Specifically I think Fox is his guaranteed hard counter. Fox is quick, can get up in Steve's face, and his obscenely fast projectile can absolutely shred any walls he tries to build with his blocks. The question though is how Fox's recovery will react to an Iron Block overhead and whether he'd bonk it or just power through it.

 

[GhostM]

I can already tell that Steve would easily obliterate all of the low tiers, especially the ones with bad and exploitable recoveries. You could essentially just place blocks near the ledge and wall out the characters if they try to recover low using flint and steel, or use smash attacks like lava bucket to send them at unfavorable angles.

I will agree that Steve's weakness are characters who are rushdown, since he has to spend time mining and crafting to consistently keep his weapons, especially since his attacks are weaker without his tools. I don't necessarily think his recovery is a part of his weakness, since he could just place blocks midair and easily reposition to recovery especially since he has glide, which could be difficult to catch.

My only question regards if the blocks even have ledges. In the reveal trailer, Steve was able to block Pikachu's recovery, but even if the blocks had ledges, Pikachu would have definitely snapped onto the block's ledge. Something tells me that you might just be able to place an iron block for example on the ledge to completely remove a players ability to snap to ledge. If that's true, it'll be a game changer for sure.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

I can already tell that Steve would easily obliterate all of the low tiers, especially the ones with bad and exploitable recoveries. You could essentially just place blocks near the ledge and wall out the characters if they try to recover low using flint and steel, or use smash attacks like lava bucket to send them at unfavorable angles.

I will agree that Steve's weakness are characters who are rushdown, since he has to spend time mining and crafting to consistently keep his weapons, especially since his attacks are weaker without his tools. I don't necessarily think his recovery is a part of his weakness, since he could just place blocks midair and easily reposition to recovery especially since he has glide, which could be difficult to catch.

My only question regards if the blocks even have ledges. In the reveal trailer, Steve was able to block Pikachu's recovery, but even if the blocks had ledges, Pikachu would have definitely snapped onto the block's ledge. Something tells me that you might just be able to place an iron block for example on the ledge to completely remove a players ability to snap to ledge. If that's true, it'll be a game changer for sure.

Hungrybox did an analysis on the presentation.

At 25:30 (which I have timestampped in the link here) he deduces that no, the blocks do not have ledges to grab as Pikachu was in the perfect position to snap the ledge if it did. Steve is potentially the ONLY character who can edge hog

 

[SvartWolf]

i dont think that rushdown characters are going to be the absolute worst cause i feel that steve jaba will be very disruptive of pretty near rushdown... on the other hand, i feel that midrange zoners will give him hell.. baiscally anything that can stay close and outrange him, since they can try to safely make steve deplete his options.

I also feel that offstage would be a very exciting double edged sword, in one hand, steve has teh adventage of having teh control of when place the blocks. on teh other hand teh enemy may also use them, and since almost everyone jumps better than him, they might learn to use them against him better.

Rip little mac harder though...

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

i dont think that rushdown characters are going to be the absolute worst cause i feel that steve jaba will be very disruptive of pretty near rushdown... on the other hand, i feel that midrange zoners will give him hell.. baiscally anything that can stay close and outrange him, since they can try to safely make steve deplete his options.

I also feel that offstage would be a very exciting double edged sword, in one hand, steve has teh adventage of having teh control of when place the blocks. on teh other hand teh enemy may also use them, and since almost everyone jumps better than him, they might learn to use them against him better.

Rip little mac harder though...

I said it earlier, but I truly think Fox is going to give him the most grief because not only is he a rushdown but he has an extremely fast projectile that can eat at his block walls.

As far as midrange zoners, Zelda might also give Steve a hard time by being able to just throw her flame right past his walls, though the kicker is to see how her phantom summon reacts and whether or not it'll pass straight through weaker walls or be halted by even dirt

 

[Jaycee_023]

Steve is going to be such a noob-stomper on online play. Fastest elite ever for competent players I bet.

 

[Mike 223]

Lol now he has been out for over a year and I main him so I'll just meme this.




Half the time:





MIIIIIIIIIINEEEEEE DIAAAAAAAMOOOOOOOOONDS




The other half the time: Up-tilt combos getting you to 57 or killed or his infinite, funni jab, diamond doing about 37 after a really simple minecart combo, so many recovery mix-ups, stopping the fast bois with his d-tilt, and almost never recovering against him unless he decides he wants to go into the other half the time, and then we have Shulk.