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BBR Weekly Character Discussion #20: Luigi
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Walk away. Luigi has no answers.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Yeah...luigi falls hard to camping. When he jumps in the air, shield. Use your quickest moves so that he can't punish OOS (His shield will slide too much for any non power shielded attack) and he doesn't really have an answer.
However, if he gets in, it is utter chaos. Luigi is the best in-boxer in this game. His jab combos, powerful smashes, and ridiculous punishments can make any person scared if they go next to him. It is just...hard for him to get in.
He also has a flaw when being edgeguarded. His DJ tornado gives him a lot of vertical distance, but it is easy to hit him out of it, putting him back in square 1 without a down-b. This, coupled with the fact that he has a huge problem getting in, is what makes him lose a lot of matches like Marth, MK, ZSS, and (Probably) even Ike.
However, if he gets in, it is utter chaos. Luigi is the best in-boxer in this game. His jab combos, powerful smashes, and ridiculous punishments can make any person scared if they go next to him. It is just...hard for him to get in.
He also has a flaw when being edgeguarded. His DJ tornado gives him a lot of vertical distance, but it is easy to hit him out of it, putting him back in square 1 without a down-b. This, coupled with the fact that he has a huge problem getting in, is what makes him lose a lot of matches like Marth, MK, ZSS, and (Probably) even Ike.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
lol One of the worst approach games I guess you could say. He has great moves once he actually gets in there though. If he can just stay in, he can take a stock pretty quickly, but he struggles with the defense of so many characters.
Luigi can recover well by using all his special attacks but the neutral B. He can also build up damage quickly, and has got a decent kill ability. Up B and Fsmash are great tools. However, he can't set up a kill very easy besides the jab1 to Up B(which isn't actually easy). Luigi's approach and his sliding when shield poked/pressured are terrible. Big Lou and Boss usually do work though. In my opinion, he must stay at the same spot or drop one.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Decent kill ability? Luigi is a monster when it comes to killing, if he's given the opportunity. Up Tilt, Forward Smash, Up Smash, Down Smash, Back Air, and Sweet Spot Nair which comes out frame THREE. Luigi has some of the best killing options in the game, has incredible combo potential, lives a good amount, has a decent recovery. It's just the fact that all of these qualities are attached to 1) Terrible ground speed, 2) even worse air speed, 3) pathetic range and lack of disjoints, 4) one of the worst projectiles in the game, and worst of all 5) the worse traction in the game which makes it nearly impossible for him to punish anything after shielding it, so that even after he's able to get in, he's forced out whenever he has to shield.
gallax
Smash Hero
I personally love luigi. Hes a good character that can fight up close awesomely. All you really need is someone who is very intelligent at this game to pick him up and hes gonna a be tough fight. But i do agree that his spot is good on the tier list. There isnt really anything that make his OMFG amazing and he isnt a bad character. Plus i like that he has a guaranteed jab>upb on ddd at higher percent s 
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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Luigi is not a good character. People need to learn MUs. Off stage, against any character with a solid edge-guarding game, Luigi is FREE. On stage, people need to learn to keep him out, and follow up properly. I could suffer slight bias though, because I use Marth, but everyone seems to play this MU wrong.
Luigi does pretty good against other characters that don't zone well though.
Oh, DownB is also a decent approach. It's way more disjointed than it seems, and travels quickly, while being able to be used at anytime. Unfortunately, it's one of his few real ones.
Luigi does pretty good against other characters that don't zone well though.
Oh, DownB is also a decent approach. It's way more disjointed than it seems, and travels quickly, while being able to be used at anytime. Unfortunately, it's one of his few real ones.
On characters that can't force on approach from Luigi (ie: Anyone without a projectile/sword/disjoints), I can see Luigi being a monster to deal with, considering his incredible close quarters game, KO potential, and attack speed.
It's absolutely frightening. Unfortunately, many characters above him either have a disjoint, or a better projectile.
His recovery is decent, but against the likes of Meta Knight, or other strong edgeguard characters, I can see how he struggles to survive off level.
Overall, he's pretty **** decent. However, just being decent doesn't make him any good against characters like Snake, Marth, etc.
It's absolutely frightening. Unfortunately, many characters above him either have a disjoint, or a better projectile.
His recovery is decent, but against the likes of Meta Knight, or other strong edgeguard characters, I can see how he struggles to survive off level.
Overall, he's pretty **** decent. However, just being decent doesn't make him any good against characters like Snake, Marth, etc.
Luigi is pretty proficient in the air, is ferocious at close range, and has very capable kill movves. Also his low traction can sometimes come to his aid in getting him out of sticky situations when he gets pushed way out of follow up range, and it definitely has an effect on Diddy's banana game for example.
Bottomline is though that Luigi needs to be at close quarters to play to his strengths, and he lacks the range to pull off safe approaches. Luigi suffers really hard to camping, and that's pretty much Brawl summed up in one word.
Great recovery and fantastic close quarters profiency just isn't enough to save Luigi from getting screwed overall, since closeup isn't where most characters like to be anyway, any character with a good camping and spacing game shuts him down pretty hard.
It's just too bad.
Bottomline is though that Luigi needs to be at close quarters to play to his strengths, and he lacks the range to pull off safe approaches. Luigi suffers really hard to camping, and that's pretty much Brawl summed up in one word.
Great recovery and fantastic close quarters profiency just isn't enough to save Luigi from getting screwed overall, since closeup isn't where most characters like to be anyway, any character with a good camping and spacing game shuts him down pretty hard.
It's just too bad.
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Against luigi you should never be in the air unless he is above you. If you are on the ground and he is in the air, SHIELD! He can't do anything.
His nair is a very nice move. Really few characters can boast about having a sex kick in Brawl, and Luigi's is just a great combo breaker. Everytime you knock him into the air, you either have to make sure you don't give him enough time to do his nair, or you have to hit him > guess and wait out his nair > rinse and repeat.
His recovery game is so predictable. It's always sideB>downB>upB if he doesn't DI properly, so characters with spikes can intercept him at all times. I know that Kirby has no problem at all doing this, as Kirby I've daired him during all 3 of those recoveries, and 1 dair on him means he's as good as dead. Same goes for knocking him away once after he does his downB... He's pretty much dead.
Since his traction is so poor, his shield game is horrible. He can't really punish anything at all unless he powershields it, and powershielding attacks is MUCH different than powershielding projectiles. You could be in the air against Luigi about to do a strong aerial on him, he could put up his shield, and you'd still be 100% safe (unless he powershields)... Which is why I've usually seen Luigis who'd rather trade hits than get pushed away, and I'm not surprised, seeing as he's got some powerful kill moves ready to use when his opponents hit 80% (mindgamed upB, and up-angled fsmash).
Speaking of his fsmash... I find it really interesting how his normal-angled and up-angled fsmash are so different from each other. Up-angled has less frames total (i don't know how) and is stronger (much like Kirby's, but to a more extreme degree and less punishable). Could anyone explain it to me? I think that's a really cool thing for Luigi to have, and definitely helps him out a LOT.
His projectiles are okay, I guess. Really punishable, easily shieldable, breakable with the majority of attacks, slow-moving... But hey, even for a crappy projectile it still does its job of forcing approaches from projectile-less or lacking-in-disjoints characters. Luigi wants this, since he can't really approach well due to him not having notable disjoints either and his low traction which is visible whenever someone hits his shield.
His grab game is okay too, seeing as he has an average speed one. Nothing notable, but his dthrow can set up some pretty nice strings. That's about it from what I can think up right now about his grab game. :|
He's cool, not high tier, upper mid-tier. He should be below the top mid-tiers, along with (in my opinion) Fox, Peach, DK, and Wolf (in no particular order).
His recovery game is so predictable. It's always sideB>downB>upB if he doesn't DI properly, so characters with spikes can intercept him at all times. I know that Kirby has no problem at all doing this, as Kirby I've daired him during all 3 of those recoveries, and 1 dair on him means he's as good as dead. Same goes for knocking him away once after he does his downB... He's pretty much dead.
Since his traction is so poor, his shield game is horrible. He can't really punish anything at all unless he powershields it, and powershielding attacks is MUCH different than powershielding projectiles. You could be in the air against Luigi about to do a strong aerial on him, he could put up his shield, and you'd still be 100% safe (unless he powershields)... Which is why I've usually seen Luigis who'd rather trade hits than get pushed away, and I'm not surprised, seeing as he's got some powerful kill moves ready to use when his opponents hit 80% (mindgamed upB, and up-angled fsmash).
Speaking of his fsmash... I find it really interesting how his normal-angled and up-angled fsmash are so different from each other. Up-angled has less frames total (i don't know how) and is stronger (much like Kirby's, but to a more extreme degree and less punishable). Could anyone explain it to me? I think that's a really cool thing for Luigi to have, and definitely helps him out a LOT.
His projectiles are okay, I guess. Really punishable, easily shieldable, breakable with the majority of attacks, slow-moving... But hey, even for a crappy projectile it still does its job of forcing approaches from projectile-less or lacking-in-disjoints characters. Luigi wants this, since he can't really approach well due to him not having notable disjoints either and his low traction which is visible whenever someone hits his shield.
His grab game is okay too, seeing as he has an average speed one. Nothing notable, but his dthrow can set up some pretty nice strings. That's about it from what I can think up right now about his grab game. :|
He's cool, not high tier, upper mid-tier. He should be below the top mid-tiers, along with (in my opinion) Fox, Peach, DK, and Wolf (in no particular order).
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
I don't have much to say about Luigi except that his kill power, priority, and combos are amazing. He would be an extremely solid character if he didn't have issues with being gimped and trouble approaching. Even with those problems, he is still a decent character and his recovery can be mixed up to avoid predictability.
His "weird" physics can make him difficult to follow up on and in the hands of a good player his weaknesses can be overcome. He is not overly amazing though so I don't think he deserves to move up much compared to where he is now.
Overall, he's probably about where he should be.
This. He might be better than Wolf but it's hard to say, overall I agree with your assessment.
His "weird" physics can make him difficult to follow up on and in the hands of a good player his weaknesses can be overcome. He is not overly amazing though so I don't think he deserves to move up much compared to where he is now.
Overall, he's probably about where he should be.
This. He might be better than Wolf but it's hard to say, overall I agree with your assessment.
Crow!
Smash Lord
Since we are doing all of D Tier this week, I present my usual data for D-Tier characters.
As usual, the following graph takes tournament results as compiled by Ankoku (current as of the end of May, 2010), groups the results by character and player name, and shows on the Y-Axis how well the N-th best player (arranged on the X-Axis) of characters A, B, C... has been doing in tournaments over the course of 6 months.
Luigi has two players doing excellently with him (like, not that far behind non-Ally Snakes), but aside from that is doing quite poorly. What this graph doesn't show is that Luigi has only ~half as many different individuals placing at least top-8 once in the past 6 months with him as people do with DK, Fox, and Wolf.
Luigi, then, would seem to either be massively unpopular but really good, or he's a total gimmick who can only break through tournaments when he lucks out (say, with improperly-prepared opponents, with notably less skilled opponents, or perhaps with a dumb ruleset saving him from D3). The first theory is inconsistent with my personal observation; lots of people I know dabble with Luigi because of how much fun he is when he gets going.
As usual, the following graph takes tournament results as compiled by Ankoku (current as of the end of May, 2010), groups the results by character and player name, and shows on the Y-Axis how well the N-th best player (arranged on the X-Axis) of characters A, B, C... has been doing in tournaments over the course of 6 months.
Luigi has two players doing excellently with him (like, not that far behind non-Ally Snakes), but aside from that is doing quite poorly. What this graph doesn't show is that Luigi has only ~half as many different individuals placing at least top-8 once in the past 6 months with him as people do with DK, Fox, and Wolf.
Luigi, then, would seem to either be massively unpopular but really good, or he's a total gimmick who can only break through tournaments when he lucks out (say, with improperly-prepared opponents, with notably less skilled opponents, or perhaps with a dumb ruleset saving him from D3). The first theory is inconsistent with my personal observation; lots of people I know dabble with Luigi because of how much fun he is when he gets going.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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I will say that Luigi is very tricky to play though. I can play a lot of characters in this game, but Luigi isn't one of them. Perhaps that's because my personal style doesn't like using gimmick approaches like sliding spot-dodge to jab/grab.
ScAtt77
Smash Journeyman
Luigi imo, is pretty solid and he can possibly rise a few more spots. He's absolutely amazing at punishing close range. If you power shield, his punishes become even better. Contrary to popular belief, Luigi can still punish you(although not as severely as a power shielded attack) if you hit his shield. Normally, you can pull a jab combo off before you slide too far away. Most projectiles aren't too bad for him to handle (unless the have transcendent priority) because he can ps, jab, or use an aerial (The latter two are much easier to do imo) to get rid of it.
Exactly what ScAtt said : beside's Snake's camping, no camping has ever been a problem to me with Luigi. Besides, you didn't see it the other way around. Luigi can camp, you know ? He's pretty good at it actually, because even if he can't punish some mistakes (Note that I didn't write 'most' mistakes ; his oos game still exists because we can reverse our shield to have better options and we know how to PS), those which get punished get punished hard.
Range is only a problem against Marth. Read me well : not against any other character in the game. If it wasn't for MK's dair offstage, the MK matchup would be even, maybe slightly for MK since he's harder to kill than anyone else in the game. I consider Luigi 6-4 gaw. Ike ? lol We can 0-death him on the ledge and we have plenty of ways to put him here (tornado being the most common)
The fireball, bad ?! It comboes into stuff, is never punished if *I* don't screw up and I can punish whatever the other guy tries to beat the fireball unless it's a tornado or marth's FH fair so they're forced to shield it -> way to make them stay grounded where I want them. They sure aren't as good as pikmen/bananas/lazers/nades, but they're definitely not as bad as pk fires or missiles. I'd put them on the same class as Pit's arrows/Peach's turnips which, you can agree, aren't bad at all.
Our recovery is definitely our weakness. Our only non-overcomable one. It goes far, but it's punished easily and even if it's not punished, the third jump glitch kills any possible ledge game for Luigi. Thanks god we have that 20 frames long fair, which makes us able to survive until 160-170 against most of the cast. It doesn't even things out completely, but definitely helps.
Shields ? Nah. This was a problem when brawl was released, but we've been fighting shields for two years and a half and we're not Ganon. We know how not to get our shielded moves punished, how to shield stab pretty much anyone in the game, etc. Marth's and Snake's shields are the only dangerous ones (Snake's is soooo easily stabable, though, it's not even a problem anymore)
Luigi is really super unpopular, however the top Luigis like Boss, Biglou and Jband show how beastly Luigi can be. Their tourney results aren't luck or anything as far as I can tell, they play a good character, and they play him well. They only lose to good marths/good MKs, because not-good marths and not-good MK have no chances against Luigi, because Luigi is solid enough to beat these hard counters without having to be five times as good as his opponent. That's not my definition of luck.
Without Marth and MK, Luigi would be high tier, around TL or maybe even Lucario imho. But since they exist, and are overplayed, Luigi should indeed stay in upper mid tier. What I want to say is that the situation is nowhere as bad as you guys make it seem. Luigi counters DDD/Olimar/ICs, is slightly advantaged against Diddy/Wario, and loses slightly to Falco/Snake. (DDD = without the infinite in my mind, ofc, I'm from Europe. Idk what the matchup looks like in America, where it's not banned.)
With a second for Marth and MK, Luigi mains can win tournaments.
Range is only a problem against Marth. Read me well : not against any other character in the game. If it wasn't for MK's dair offstage, the MK matchup would be even, maybe slightly for MK since he's harder to kill than anyone else in the game. I consider Luigi 6-4 gaw. Ike ? lol We can 0-death him on the ledge and we have plenty of ways to put him here (tornado being the most common)
The fireball, bad ?! It comboes into stuff, is never punished if *I* don't screw up and I can punish whatever the other guy tries to beat the fireball unless it's a tornado or marth's FH fair so they're forced to shield it -> way to make them stay grounded where I want them. They sure aren't as good as pikmen/bananas/lazers/nades, but they're definitely not as bad as pk fires or missiles. I'd put them on the same class as Pit's arrows/Peach's turnips which, you can agree, aren't bad at all.
Our recovery is definitely our weakness. Our only non-overcomable one. It goes far, but it's punished easily and even if it's not punished, the third jump glitch kills any possible ledge game for Luigi. Thanks god we have that 20 frames long fair, which makes us able to survive until 160-170 against most of the cast. It doesn't even things out completely, but definitely helps.
Shields ? Nah. This was a problem when brawl was released, but we've been fighting shields for two years and a half and we're not Ganon. We know how not to get our shielded moves punished, how to shield stab pretty much anyone in the game, etc. Marth's and Snake's shields are the only dangerous ones (Snake's is soooo easily stabable, though, it's not even a problem anymore)
Luigi is really super unpopular, however the top Luigis like Boss, Biglou and Jband show how beastly Luigi can be. Their tourney results aren't luck or anything as far as I can tell, they play a good character, and they play him well. They only lose to good marths/good MKs, because not-good marths and not-good MK have no chances against Luigi, because Luigi is solid enough to beat these hard counters without having to be five times as good as his opponent. That's not my definition of luck.
Without Marth and MK, Luigi would be high tier, around TL or maybe even Lucario imho. But since they exist, and are overplayed, Luigi should indeed stay in upper mid tier. What I want to say is that the situation is nowhere as bad as you guys make it seem. Luigi counters DDD/Olimar/ICs, is slightly advantaged against Diddy/Wario, and loses slightly to Falco/Snake. (DDD = without the infinite in my mind, ofc, I'm from Europe. Idk what the matchup looks like in America, where it's not banned.)
With a second for Marth and MK, Luigi mains can win tournaments.
Alright guys listen, Luigi's approach game is horrible. Yes, this has been stated and is true.
But in this game approaching is a horrible idea, why would you do it? Luigi's metagame isn't based off approaches, it's based off baiting/positioning. Sure characters like MK/Marth have range to keep him out, but Luigi has a fireball to make them approach and make them REACT. That is where Luigi mains have to get that read in to totally **** their opponents. Yes he can't get in, yes he can't approach. BUT he has the tool to make YOU approach and that is the key to Luigi. We make you approach so we can find a hole in your approach and **** you
.
Luigi is a better character than most give him credit for, you're absolutely wrong if you think he has "no game".
But in this game approaching is a horrible idea, why would you do it? Luigi's metagame isn't based off approaches, it's based off baiting/positioning. Sure characters like MK/Marth have range to keep him out, but Luigi has a fireball to make them approach and make them REACT. That is where Luigi mains have to get that read in to totally **** their opponents. Yes he can't get in, yes he can't approach. BUT he has the tool to make YOU approach and that is the key to Luigi. We make you approach so we can find a hole in your approach and **** you
.Luigi is a better character than most give him credit for, you're absolutely wrong if you think he has "no game".
NAKAT
Smash Champion
Completely agreed.Alright guys listen, Luigi's approach game is horrible. Yes, this has been stated and is true.
But in this game approaching is a horrible idea, why would you do it? Luigi's metagame isn't based off approaches, it's based off baiting/positioning. Sure characters like MK/Marth have range to keep him out, but Luigi has a fireball to make them approach and make them REACT. That is where Luigi mains have to get that read in to totally **** their opponents. Yes he can't get in, yes he can't approach. BUT he has the tool to make YOU approach and that is the key to Luigi. We make you approach so we can find a hole in your approach and **** you
Luigi is a better character than most give him credit for, you're absolutely wrong if you think he has "no game".
CR4SH
Smash Lord
Brawlin
Smash Journeyman
Luigi is a good character. He has fast, high priority aerials and can kill early too. He can also combo which complements his killing power. His range is not all that great though, so he always has to be close to his opponent to be able to do anything to them.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Luigi is ****ing broken I hate him
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I think Luigi is both misused and misplayed against. Most Luigi players don't implement F-air nearly as much as they should as a reasonably safe damage dealer that can be used in approaches, edgeguards, and frame traps. B-throw needs to be saved for kills more since it does kill earlier than Mario's and because Luigi only benefits from edgeguards as a source of damage, not gimps or KOs (one reason why I don't see Ganon having too much trouble against Luigi). The two throws he should always be using otherwise are F-throw and D-throw, F-throw for chip damage and a setup into fireball + aerial edgeguards, and D-throw because it sets up for other stuff at virtually any practical percent. Also Dash attack is misunderstood, since it's quite a useful move for edgetrapping and pressuring people who are standing next to the edge (the potential for a DASC as I recall doesn't hurt either).
The way Luigi is misplayed against however, most people (besides the Mario and Marth mains I guess) don't edgeguard him nearly as consistently as they should when you consider that most of his recovery moves have some form of notice and commitment. Punishing cyclone seems foreign to some players still. And many people still don't seem to understand how to react to Luigi's N-air without an obvious disjoint, even though a lot of U-tilts in this game cleanly beat out Luigi's N-air, as well as crouch powershielding.
That being said he's mid tier. Probably exactly in the middle as far as I'm concerned.
Pierce, I find it amusing that you find Luigi hard to use. I personally don't see him as hard to use, although it's probably because some of his mechanics are similar to Mario's, but I treat Luigi as the more offensive Mario Bro, and Mario as the more defensive one.
The way Luigi is misplayed against however, most people (besides the Mario and Marth mains I guess) don't edgeguard him nearly as consistently as they should when you consider that most of his recovery moves have some form of notice and commitment. Punishing cyclone seems foreign to some players still. And many people still don't seem to understand how to react to Luigi's N-air without an obvious disjoint, even though a lot of U-tilts in this game cleanly beat out Luigi's N-air, as well as crouch powershielding.
That being said he's mid tier. Probably exactly in the middle as far as I'm concerned.
Pierce, I find it amusing that you find Luigi hard to use. I personally don't see him as hard to use, although it's probably because some of his mechanics are similar to Mario's, but I treat Luigi as the more offensive Mario Bro, and Mario as the more defensive one.
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
Give Luigi his own tier in the dead center of the tier list
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
I don't buy fireball forcing an approach.Alright guys listen, Luigi's approach game is horrible. Yes, this has been stated and is true.
But in this game approaching is a horrible idea, why would you do it? Luigi's metagame isn't based off approaches, it's based off baiting/positioning. Sure characters like MK/Marth have range to keep him out, but Luigi has a fireball to make them approach and make them REACT. That is where Luigi mains have to get that read in to totally **** their opponents. Yes he can't get in, yes he can't approach. BUT he has the tool to make YOU approach and that is the key to Luigi. We make you approach so we can find a hole in your approach and **** you
If I'm Ike for example, I can just jab it out. That's not even close to an approach. If Luigi attempts to punish the jab, I can continue the combo and force him back with Jab 2/3. Or cancel the jab and shield. Or grab. Or whatever I want to do basically. I also doubt Ike is the only character who can do this sort of thing.
If Luigi's opponent has the lead, and a very easy to way to deal with the fireball (jab for example), what is Luigi going to do to avoid time running out with him being behind % wise?
Ussi
Smash Legend
Then we dash usmash under the fireball
boss8
Smash Hero
luigi has a tough time getting in u juss hafe to be smart....once he's in he will take a stock and/or do massive damage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hffBbhUN77o
when omni kept me out i couldnt do anything but when i got in and read most of his habits its pretty deadly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hffBbhUN77o
when omni kept me out i couldnt do anything but when i got in and read most of his habits its pretty deadly...
makoforce
Smash Ace
and lets not forget about Airdodge buffering so in any means luigi is not as slow as he may look
and just quoting my old friend zhao luigi really needs to get in twice once to do damage and one to kill
and just quoting my old friend zhao luigi really needs to get in twice once to do damage and one to kill
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Then I duck under it. >_> Assuming that Ike's jab in fact could not jab it out, I'd have to look at the hitbox again.
You're also not covering other, shorter characters who can just jab it out. Or have other moves that clank it out. What I'm saying is that Luigi can rarely force an approach.
No, understand that even if Ike's jab can cancel out the fireball, Luigi doesn't have to approach. He can simply keep spamming fireballs until you stop canceling them with your jabs and do something... The fact that Ike can cancel it out with the jab just means he has to be more careful when approaching, but it does in fact force him to do something. Unless you want to spend 8 minutes jabbing a fireball...
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
If I have the % lead? Gladly. That's not even close to making me approach. That's making me press a single button.
BigLøu
Smash Lord
Luigi can't force an approach ever lol. Fire ball is horrible for forcing approaches, I find the most sucess in using it to bait dodges or rolls.
makoforce
Smash Ace
we all forgot about the simplest aprroach dash and shield