Bayonetta Stuff

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think this deserves it's own thread when we look at it in context with regions going about this and how this is affecting the game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4dhlag/the_spanish_smash_community_is_considering/

This has been becoming more of a thing as of recent even though she doesn't have the same kind of dominant results. Part of this has been called out to players outside refusing to play her even though they know she is likely the best character.

Is she winning majors everywhere? No. Does she have bad MUs? Yes. Do people think she will kill the game? Yeah.

Then why is this ban crazy and massive hatred for her happening?

Because she kills people's love of the game to a huge notable degree. Despite what people have been saying about her being legitimately broken or not, people's interest in the game is still something you have to consider when working with a tournament ruleset.

Some areas, one area of Michigan also banned her, Spain is highly likely to be doing it as well.

So I thought it would be good to open up discussion on this to see what the backroom as a whole thinks of her and if anything should be done with her?

I'm currently in the middle, because I do understand the fun killing she does is a legitimate concern for longevity.

 

[Myran]

I would say keep her legal. I have no problems with her except that I feel she does carry players to a decent degree, but I think some other characters do that as well. I doubt anything will be done on a global scale in regards to her.

 

[Gunla]

And Spain has banned Bayonetta. It's disappointing to see, especially since the character has been out for literally two months right now.

I think she needs tweaks, but I think a ban is out of the question (or at least should be) until 2017. She has not even been as remotely dominant as MK was (part of that is likely due to top players not wanting to play her because they feel she is toxic [which also can affect many others in turn], and partly because she simply isn't as dominant as MK was in terms of her toolset). Not to say that Bayo hasn't been performing well, however; there's definitely places where Bayo has been potent as a major threat, just not at a national/worldwide level.

 

[san.]

Do we need to define the line to be crossed for any sort of action? Bayo's dominance in Japan seems to be somewhat worrying, honestly.

I felt that she could've been bannable prepatch, and the fixes toned down the risk:reward on a few key moves. Post patch, I feel there are particular ways you can play to limit her options and punish common move choices.

 

[Myran]

Just lost to a Bayonetta in 2 straight sets yesterday. Many times I was dominating, but all it took was one up/side-b into kill confirm. So much safe pressure that isn't needed. Before I was a bit impartial about the character but after experiencing it firsthand like I did, I'll honestly say this character is ridiculous, and has no place in the meta imo.

 

[Slice~]

It doesn't matter if we ever find a way to deal with her combos or not.
The major problem is, that the community suffers from her.
Not because she's unbeatable, but most smashers play the game competitively for fun and not for a living.
And these exact players will probably lose interest in the game if the counterplay to her is super complicated or just annoying in general.
As soon as these players leave, a huge junk of the community will disappear.
And I think you know what that would mean for all of us.

I'm not suggesting a ban, since that would create a rift between 2 parts of the community (which we already have with the Melee players, we don't need even more of that...).
But if nothing happens, be it a nerf or a counter-tactic accessible enough for "casual" players, I see a grim future lying ahead of us.

Due to YouTube we get in contact with a huge mass and there's something I realized: there's quite a big amount of casual For Glory players who complained about Bayonetta's combos.
And this is a good thing since it's exactly the crowd Sakurai wants to aim for.
Which means that since even these players, the one's the game was actually designed for, have a bad time playing against her, Sakurai might actually do something about it.

It's less about "She's is too good, blahblah...".
The major problem is that she's not fun to play against.

sry for the wall of text, got carried away...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

St. Louis just banned her as well.

 

[Myran]

So is it just St. Louis and Spain now?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

One area of Michigan as well.

Idk if Spain ban went through or not.

 

[Slice~]

I could imagine Spain taking a step back from this topic again since they've been a huge target for social media in the last days.
But still, I could imagine that the ban hype will soon be a global thing.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4eqewt/the_russian_smash_scene_has_banned_bayonetta/

Russia just banned her.

 

[Gunla]

One area of Michigan as well.

Idk if Spain ban went through or not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...sian_smash_scene_has_banned_bayonetta/d22kxd6

According to this, seems like it's not official yet for Spain, but most TOs have already banned her.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So pretty much she is banned in spain.

making four areas do it.

 

[Slice~]

Wow, it starts earlier than expected...
edit: Not a fan of the bans, but it might help at making Nintendo realize it and make some tweaks happen.

 

[Camalange]

I used to feel that the only legitimate reason to ban a character is if they clearly dominate the meta.

The case for Bayonetta is so bizarre. Sakurai keeps finding new ways to make people hate his game.

"What could be worse than pre-patch Diddy?"

I think it's too early to ban her, so to see regions take action like this is pretty alarming.

 

[CHOMPY]

Can we talk about the amount of dislikes there are in this clip.

 

[Myran]

Not surprised by that to be honest. Recently I've actually been thinking about how Bayo can affect other characters results. Bayo beats most characters easily, but I've been told that Diddy beats her. I wonder if the success of Bayos is indirectly boosting Diddy players results. I know Riot has been doing well in FL but MVD has consistently beat him. MVD does usually win things in FL, but Riot also eliminates a lot of potential threats. I think Midwest Mayhem showed this to some degree with how Diddy ended up winning where as Tyroy may have eliminated players who do better vs Diddy.

If I didn't present that message an a very understandable way let me know and I'll clarify. It sounded kinda weird when posting it, but I wanted to get the thought out there.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No one batted an eye to him losing to a Ryu at the same tournament.

Still it shows how much hate she gets.

edit: I do think Diddy is her worst MU by far and she does lose it.

 

[CHOMPY]

Thats just it. Players don't want to commit the time and effort to picking up Diddy, just so they can counter Bayonetta. Even though Diddy can potentially counter Bayonetta, she can still steamroll through Diddy the same way she can with any other character. One mistake and your going to get zero to death. With pre-patch Shiek it was different because you can afford to make mistakes from time to time and be able to adapt. Basically fighting against Bayonetta is like having cancer. The fact that so many players quit the game because of her is not something that we want to see.

What we need to do is gather up all the T.O's that we can gather and have a discussion on this as too whether she should be banned or not.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I get the concern with making players quit, it's something you need to heavily consider and I still maintain is the best reason of any to even consider a ban with her.

However, I do want to see players at least attempt progress against her.

Like this,

https://twitter.com/Ge0_Smash/status/730227964152053760