Data Bayonetta Match-Up Thread!

[Megamang]

Im just saying it probably provides more benefits for them than us, but if you prefer Battlefield or are destroying them with platform play, then feel free to go there. But its kinda like Mario IMO, he just gets more from it than we do.

 

[Rezialn]

She seems really bad against Roy and against swordsmen in general. My experience with Roy has been that he controls the space Bayonetta wants to be in very effectively.

 

[Megamang]

Gimp the living hell out of roy at every possible opportunity. Like to the point where you are better off sending him offstage for a chance to end it all than you are doing BnB for 20 more damage.

 

[BlackCephie]

She seems really bad against Roy and against swordsmen in general. My experience with Roy has been that he controls the space Bayonetta wants to be in very effectively.

The general swordsman matchup isnt really that hard for Bayo. For one thing they are all tall for the most part, and you really dont have to commit to attacking them. The other thing is that most of them have susceptible up bs. Also, its incredibly easy to dance around them using your ABK and Wtwist to create space and keep them guessing.

 

[Lunais]

She seems really bad against Roy and against swordsmen in general. My experience with Roy has been that he controls the space Bayonetta wants to be in very effectively.

Swordsmen are really easy for me and Witch Time is even easier to land because of their extended range for poking. Also swordsmen are really easy to edge guard.

 

[Megamang]

Yep. They all have to approach, except maybe cloud, so abuse that as much as possible. I find bullet arts off of nair and dtilt are great for creating pressure. And yea, Witch Time is super easy to land unless the swordsman is very very good at baiting you. This can be problematic, as the backflip from Witch Time is pretty pathetic compared to her (still bad) rolls, so swordsman can bait your Witch Time and get a charged smash... Especially Marth, it sucks to think you have a read, Witch Time, and roll slowly into tipper range and die to a charged smash at 40%... but thats the price of having 50% BnBs and Witch Time kills even earlier =P

Speaking of Witch, many swordsman are susceptible to drop down -> counter from the FE crew, i'd imagine Witch Time -> bair or dair is super deadly in these situations, but I haven't tested it extensively.

Just know that if you hit a Witch Time near the edge, Fsmash -> Dsmash is often your best option. And the funniest.

 

[Ffamran]

Fly me to the moon
And let me play among the stars
Let me see what Spring is like
On Jupiter and Mars

In other words, hello, you Umbran Witches, the Falco boards started their ongoing matchup discussion on the queen of the 'do, Bayonetta. Link to discussion: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-57-bayonetta-to-the-moon.432247/.

And if you want to learn about the MU or just want to play with Falco players, head over here: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

 

[pikazz]

something I found out I have sometimes problem with is to "land" with bayonetta with those who are fast on the ground (Cloud, Little Mac, Fox) do her mechanic that each SideB+UpB thats being used longers the landing lag. it longers it so you cant sometimes Witch Time in time for a Dash Attack/Upsmash.

it isnt a huge weakness that she has due how she can combo them, but it something that can **** you up when you dont pay attention

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Does anyone have anything on Yoshi? I struggle with him a lot especially the eggs & egg lay.

 

[pikazz]

Does anyone have anything on Yoshi? I struggle with him a lot especially the eggs & egg lay.

answer his Eggs with shield and predict his Egg Lay (both normal and B reverse) and you should be fine. he cant approach without his eggs and if you remove his eggs with shield and he tries to follow behind it with an attack, punish it. just outspace him

 

[Megamang]

It may seem at first that yoshi is really hard to outspace with his huge aerials, but keep in mind that he doesn't have a disjoint to complement those. He may seem really difficult to outposition with his airspeed, but he actually is exposing himself a lot throughout the match. You can punch his dino nose with stuff with alarming frequency. Since bayonetta's utilt beats clouds' dair, im pretty damn sure it should be able to beat Yoshi's aerials, but might require some good timing. Work on implementing this, combined with our low crouch, and a reactive walking/powershielding/dtilt neutral means you should be pretty hard to hit.

Yoshi notoriously has difficulty gaining much ground with his grabs. Your shield is a good friend in this MU, but make sure you don't eat a dair trying to use it too much. If you do get hit with Dair, your SDI should be strong enough to at least reduce some damage and followups, if not get you out completely (SDI away from the direction Yoshi is moving) You might be able to Bat Within out of his dair shield pressure while you are getting dair'd, but I haven't tested this.

Anyways, play reactive enough not to get hit with egg lay frequently. Shield is a safe button, but don't sit in it too long or you will die from being made into an egg. Since his grab confirm game is lackluster, your Witch Time should be doing work in this matchup. Try and read the yoshi for when he approaches with his aerials. Fair is the easiest to read, but you can often read a nair; he uses it for combo breaking, landing safely, and out of SHAD to pressure.

Finally, his shield is really weak compared to ours. We have Witch Twist OOS for really solid confirms and punishes, his fastest option is going to be nairing. His shield grab is pretty slow and not very punishing, so feel free to really wallop on his shield. Learn what you can do with it.


He is also pretty gimpable, play around with what you can do there, and remember if you hit him with a footstool during his 2nd jump ascension, he is pretty much dead. Reading an airdodge and hitting with dair will kill him quite early too, as well as witch timing him if he uses an egg too close to you at the ledge.

I don't advocate using much HSK in the neutral, but here if he is trying to space you out with retreating aerials it can be good. Especially since the kick after the slide should be totally safe on his shield.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Thanks guys, I'm surprised this thread isn't more popular. I played more FG + Anthers. Lucario, Ryu & Cloud have been given me the most trouble lately. Does anyone have any info on those 3 characters?

 

[pikazz]

havent met Lucario that much so I cant fill you in that part


Ryu is an tricky MU but I would say its 50/50 in this one.
We can kill Ryu fairly easy but he can kill us fairly with UTilt1 -> True Shoyruken at 80~%
the key in this MU is to force him to approach. Ryu is that kind of character that punish more than approaching (just look at Perfect Shielding and OoS True Shoyruken)
if he is in the air, keep it that way. he cant really "land" if you predict his movement with Focus Punch Mixup as our "UAir BA" and "NAir BA" beats it with its multihits.
if you Witch Time any of his Light tilts, (especially UTilt), he can do an True Shoryuken and get super armor during WT! so its best to grab him, DThrow Him and DSmash at ledge or UpSmash in middle of stage.
He has an pretty predicable recovery and both has hitbox so he can have a hard time to get back to stage as he is easy to gimp.
you can either Witch Time his UpB and SideB or you can gimp him with NAir/BAir or try to spike him with DAir when recovering low.


One of the MU I actually think its one of the swordmen that has this MU in his favor by 55/45 to 60/40. but its not with much.
he has the Power to Kill bayonetta, He has the Speed to kill Bayonetta and he has the Priority/Disjoint to kill Bayonetta.
but with all those 3 comes with an huge weakness, he is super gimpable.
try to get him outstage and gimp him when he is recovery high or you can WT Him when he does UpB near the ledge, giving you a free Down Smash Spike.

he is what I think Baiting is the Key. bait him to approach instead of charging his Limit, bait him to do any Aerials for WT, bait him to Air Dodge. but dont challange him on UAirs as his Sword beats out almost every attack we have against it.


thats my 2 cents of those 2 and would like to hear opinions of those who also have played against those 2

 

[Rezialn]

It seems like Link is another bad matchup.

 

[BlackCephie]

Against any of these swordsman, Bullet Climax is your friend. Utilize the cancel and capitalize as much as possible. Its also easy to Witch Time them since they assume that their normals will beat yours out if contested. Just dont spam it.

 

[mycrookedhairline]

Kirby mu? I can't seem to hit him at all in this matchup.

 

[pikazz]

Kirby lacks approach, so keep forcing him to approach with BC or DTilt BA. the only way he can really approach is with DAir/FAir, Mutlijump "fake outs" (Jump, baiting out something on multijump and attack if got baited) or running straight up.
if he does the multi jumps fake outs, you can answer that with WT or UAirs to get an combo going. if he loves to run straight up but shield and roll back, do a heel slide to catch the roll to possible start an combo.

kirby is lighter but thanks to that our combos do work earlier and will kill earler then normal, he will be screwed when he is in our combos.

but dont let him get our bullet climax, his short size will actually fire the bullets MUCH lower than usuall so we cant duck underneaf it! its one of the best abilities he can have and dont give it to him

everything else should be an piece a cake

 

[mycrookedhairline]

Can't kirby di out of our combos easier than most characters?

 

[pikazz]

Can't kirby di out of our combos easier than most characters?

lightweights doesnt affect the DI itself, but lightweights do get launched at earlier % so we need to adjust ourself to make our combos work at proper % on lightweight instead on middle/heavies.

like dABK->dABK->WT-> DJ WT works best on Kirby at 10-20% while that combo works best on middle/heavies at 40%~

 

[Darklink2nd]

like dABK->dABK->WT-> DJ WT works best on Kirby at 10-20% while that combo works best on middle/heavies at 40%~

I would have gone with something along the lines of: ABK -> WT -> ABK -> DJ WT -> UpAir/Fair 1,2,3.
I don't trust dABK to combo into itself on lightweights.

 

[ChimaeraUltimo]

Bayo mains, help us out here! we are disscusing Bayo v Corrin here, and you help woul be much apreciated!

http://smashboards.com/threads/corrin-matchup-thread-wk-1-bayonetta.431776/

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I did find Link a bit challenging. I honestly think I was playing the MU wrong though; you can't just scoop him up w/ side-b nitty-willy, you actually have to think vs projectile characters.

I lost to a DDD & Sonic in bracket. DDD is my personal worst MU in the entire game & I only played 2 DDDs in short games on wifi, so I definitely lacked experience. Sonic, I need to WTime his Side-B more & I will next time for sure.

 

[xVenu5]

thoughts on the game and watch matchup?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Lost to Ness & Fatality today. I probably could have beaten the Ness but I wasn't patient enough & I SDd so darn much in the beginning games. Xanos won 3-1 but I felt like I had it but lost it. I did beat the Yoshi player I lost to a while back. Couldn't kill him tilll 191 1st stock : / Had to upair his landing on TC 6x in a row. Vs the Ness I couldn't really kill either & he is super hard to trap in the air because his airdodge is incredibly strong. If I missed the upair his upaur would trade or beat me out.

 

[Skyfox2000]

I think is a pretty bad match-up for Bayonetta. What do you guys think? These nerfs definitely didn't help Bayonetta one bit....

 

[pikazz]

I starting to believe that is a bad MU for Bayo, mainly because he can easy reverse the pressure and his UAir can be pain for us.

how should we deal with this thing?

 

[Waymas]

Hey fellow Bayonetta players, the Wario boards are currently discussing the MU, if you want to join the discussion just click on Wario

 

[Fex13]

does anyone else feel that bayo loses pretty hard to diddy? banana stops the grounded slide kick. monkey flip beats witch time. he crawls under her neutral b bullets. he is very mobile.
he embodies everything bayonetta hates. except for being relatively easy to gimp.
what do you guys think?

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar board is now discussing the Bayonetta matchup. Any input is appreciated.

 

[GwJ]

I think is a pretty bad match-up for Bayonetta. What do you guys think? These nerfs definitely didn't help Bayonetta one bit....

Explain please?

 

[blackghost]

Explain please?

if the rosa player actually uses luma effectively (and not just for upair) the wall is a lot to deal with. but very few rosalina's actuallyuse luma even somewhat effectively.

 

[Addy Who Dat]

I played several matches in a row against Rosa today and I have some input on this matchup.

For one thing, all of what you said here is valid, however against Rosa you really shouldnt be going for combos here, which doesnt hurt Bayo much. Moreover, killing luma outright FIRST is incredibly easy for bayo, and she has more than enough mobility to avoid Rosa's most viable attacks while doing so.

This battle takes patience. Its not a hard matchup, but it is a long one. Further more, because of rosa's disjointed hit boxes it is incedibly easy to WT her, at which point luma becomes useless if he isnt already dead. Bullet climax is great here too because Rosa is tall and can only black hole the first few bullets and gets nailed by the rest if you continue to fire.

In the air bair is still amazing and bullet climax damage luma as well and contributes to his ultimate doom.

Check out match two between NinjaLink and Anti. Notice how easy it is for Bayo to eliminate Luma.
http://youtu.be/fdyBx4aq0To

I've been waiting for someone to arrest this MU . I play Rosa, and from the Bayos I went out and played, I felt that Rosa could reasonably split with Bayo. Glad you took note of the fact that Luma doesn't stay around long. With Luma being a bit less reliable and Bayonetta fishing for a combo, Rosalina certainly has to be play defensive in this matchup, but I feel it's a strong suit of hers. I tend to find myself in sheild more than usual, because Rosalinas height makes her slightly more susceptible to bullet climax. However, Rosalina can punish a Bayonetta trying to land from her combos or trying to land afterburner. Uair is one of the few things that can beat ABK, and luma also makes landing a pain. This takes patience on both sides, which is a plan Rosa executes well. But Bayo has the tools to avoid her disjoints. Bayos should prepare for a Rosa counterpick.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

I've actually been having a ton of trouble with Ryu of all things
His combo game is basically on par with Bayo's except hes able to mash out of a lot of things

 

[GwJ]

How do I deal with mario? I get mega comboed when I get grabbed.

 

[blackghost]

ryu is definitely an issue. focus attack and true combos are quite a threat. also he doesnt have to fear wt. he can cancel normals into true shoryuken. recover isnt really gimpable most time either. thank god he doesnt have a kill throw.
ryu is also hard to WT in general. most moves with exception of nair and fair are too fast to even attempt a wt read.
anyone have ideas for the ryu fight? right now im thinking 60 40 in ryu favor.

 

[Neutricity]

ryu is definitely an issue. focus attack and true combos are quite a threat. also he doesnt have to fear wt. he can cancel normals into true shoryuken. recover isnt really gimpable most time either. thank god he doesnt have a kill throw.
ryu is also hard to WT in general. most moves with exception of nair and fair are too fast to even attempt a wt read.
anyone have ideas for the ryu fight? right now im thinking 60 40 in ryu favor.

Hmm how often have you played the match up?

 

[Pixel_]

Is Jigglypuff a good counterpick against Bayonetta?

 

[Otterz]

Is Jigglypuff a good counterpick against Bayonetta?

I mean, I think she does better against Bayonetta than she does against other Top Tiers (such as Cloud or Diddy Kong), but I wouldn't go as far to say she wins the MU or is a viable counterpick. The Bayonetta just has to be cautious with their combos.

 

[GwJ]

Bayo destroys Puff.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Attention all Umbra Witches, you're all being analyzed by Rosalina this week at her sub-forum.

http://smashboards.com/threads/435227/

Also, please be sure to read the directory thread to know the match-up discussion rules.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/