BattleField or Final Destination stages?

[J.I.L]

I just HATE playing players who pick BF stages. Why do people even like that stage? it just limits movement and allows either people with non projectiles to hide like cowards on those platforms or even worse, it gives campy players like snake and samus time to charge up their projectiles or lay booby traps all over the stage. I just don't understand why people pick BF stages. To me it's an utterly inferior stage in competitive play to FD stages and should be banned by online play just like they did in smash 4.

 

[Crescentium]

Kinda wish there was an option for either/both lol. I never really had problems with other people camping on platforms. Usually, I just harass them with aerials and they take a good amount of percent while I keep stage control. On FD, it's a little trickier (but still doable) to combat the camping since I can't shark as much and there's more space to move around (It's a blessing and a curse.) It gets comically enraging when they start making sweet, juicy love to that dummy thic roll button and I gotta **** block them with Down Smashes, but I digress.

For me, it depends on what character I'm using:
Final Destination:
(platforms can mess up f-throw combos)
(more space to move around)

Battlefield:
(Up Air combos for days)
(See Mario)
(Only slight preference, while I like having more movement with Marth, Up Air sharking is quite nice)

Either:
(I like having more space on FD, but BF lets me do dumb **** like drop bowling balls/trees off of platforms)
(More projectile space with FD, more disjoint sharking on BF)
(See ROB)

So all in all, I like having a mix of both. BF can help extend combos and also help characters move around projectile spam by hopping up/falling through platforms. Meanwhile, FD gives people more space to work with as well as demands more focus on grounded movement for both players. Both stages can certainly benefit or hinder different kinds of characters/playstyles.

And I guess this time around, a lot of people got sick of being in an arranged mariage with FD in Smash 4, so they divorced FD like it was the most toxic flat chested ex ever, and now people are dating BF like its the hot new thang even though BF's been around the block.

 

[J.I.L]

Kinda wish there was an option for either/both lol. I never really had problems with other people camping on platforms. Usually, I just harass them with aerials and they take a good amount of percent while I keep stage control. On FD, it's a little trickier (but still doable) to combat the camping since I can't shark as much and there's more space to move around (It's a blessing and a curse.) It gets comically enraging when they start making sweet, juicy love to that dummy thic roll button and I gotta **** block them with Down Smashes, but I digress.

For me, it depends on what character I'm using:
Final Destination:
(platforms can mess up f-throw combos)
(more space to move around)

Battlefield:
(Up Air combos for days)
(See Mario)
(Only slight preference, while I like having more movement with Marth, Up Air sharking is quite nice)

Either:
(I like having more space on FD, but BF lets me do dumb **** like drop bowling balls/trees off of platforms)
(More projectile space with FD, more disjoint sharking on BF)
(See ROB)

So all in all, I like having a mix of both. BF can help extend combos and also help characters move around projectile spam by hopping up/falling through platforms. Meanwhile, FD gives people more space to work with as well as demands more focus on grounded movement for both players. Both stages can certainly benefit or hinder different kinds of characters/playstyles.

And I guess this time around, a lot of people got sick of being in an arranged mariage with FD in Smash 4, so they divorced FD like it was the most toxic flat chested ex ever, and now people are dating BF like its the hot new thang even though BF's been around the block.

Nope, all the divorcers need to re-marry back with FD. With falco, I run to the end of the stages and projectile spam my laser. With lemmy, I throw my nano bots all over the stage. With BF, people avoid it by jumping on those stupid platform. And my arieal game is weak so I can’t punish well. Plus I’m constantly trying to get back to the ground because I land on those platforms. With lemmy, i like to throw my bower jr bots from the air. O can’t do that in BF so I’m limited. All in all, BF sucks for me. And I make sure to make the person I bested in that stage platform really really miserable if I beat them. Which means a ton of tbags and extra camp. -.-

 

[Nah]

I currently have my quickplay preferences set to BF/alpha stages. After years of only being allowed on FD/omegas, you kind of want to play on something else. Though what I'd really like is an option for both alphas and omegas, so I can get a little variety instead of playing on the same stage all the time, and I'm fine with both stages. Dunno why they don't have the option for online when they do offline.

 

[J.I.L]

I currently have my quickplay preferences set to BF/alpha stages. After years of only being allowed on FD/omegas, you kind of want to play on something else. Though what I'd really like is an option for both alphas and omegas, so I can get a little variety instead of playing on the same stage all the time, and I'm fine with both stages. Dunno why they don't have the option for online when they do offline.

But isn’t easier to play omegas?

 

[Nah]

Not necessarily. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

 

[Nutty Sponge]

Nope, all the divorcers need to re-marry back with FD. With falco, I run to the end of the stages and projectile spam my laser. With lemmy, I throw my nano bots all over the stage. With BF, people avoid it by jumping on those stupid platform. And my arieal game is weak so I can’t punish well. Plus I’m constantly trying to get back to the ground because I land on those platforms. With lemmy, i like to throw my bower jr bots from the air. O can’t do that in BF so I’m limited. All in all, BF sucks for me. And I make sure to make the person I bested in that stage platform really really miserable if I beat them. Which means a ton of tbags and extra camp. -.-

So you're complaining about Bf because people avoid your projectile spam?

 

[lucasla]

I like both Omega and Battlefield stages, cause they provide different strategies. I would like to have the possibility of select both styles of stages on the Preffered Rules menu. I also alwatys thought about Omega stages being the most simple kind of stage, and not have only 1 style of Battlefield stage with the 3 plataforms on that positions, I think that we could have different styles of Battlefield stages, something like BF 1 being the default layout, BF 2 with maybe only two plataforms with more space between, BF 3, BF 4... Because maybe the 3 plataforms of the default BF layout can really be on the way for some people, but they still would like to have some plataform somewhere.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that using both at similar rates is the most fair way in this debate.

 

[Sean²]

Both stages can attract fairly degenerate strategies depending on what characters are involved. Wolf players who are really laser happy can make life miserable for anyone without a reflector or absorption move on FD. Dedede can be super obnoxious on BF if he lowers himself to standing under a side platform and covering all non-linear approach/projectile options with his inhale. Lots of characters can be stupid to fight on either stage. Probably a lot like your laser spamming Falco on FD. Not much is less fun than going against a character with a good projectile, who also has one of the best reflectors in the game, using a character that is primarily a zoner with no reflector. Long, grueling matches aren't fun for me.

Personally, I prefer Battlefield. Not all of my characters are super strong on that stage in comparison to FD, but I feel as if my movement options are superior and I can create more non-linear approaches by mixing up how I use the platforms. It allows me to play more aggressively and use less defensive footsies to net my damage and start combos. I can also extend combos using the platforms. It's a little bit harder to ledge trap since the platforms can get in the way sometimes, but them being there makes it so I have to learn to be more precise with how I'm ledge trapping. So it's a bit of a win-lose, but it helps me learn.

That and I have FD PTSD from being locked into that stage for the entirety of Smash 4 online. I still rarely choose it even when I feel like I'll have an advantage. I just like platforms too much, not just necessarily BF platforms.

 

[J.I.L]

Both stages can attract fairly degenerate strategies depending on what characters are involved. Wolf players who are really laser happy can make life miserable for anyone without a reflector or absorption move on FD. Dedede can be super obnoxious on BF if he lowers himself to standing under a side platform and covering all non-linear approach/projectile options with his inhale. Lots of characters can be stupid to fight on either stage. Probably a lot like your laser spamming Falco on FD. Not much is less fun than going against a character with a good projectile, who also has one of the best reflectors in the game, using a character that is primarily a zoner with no reflector. Long, grueling matches aren't fun for me.

Personally, I prefer Battlefield. Not all of my characters are super strong on that stage in comparison to FD, but I feel as if my movement options are superior and I can create more non-linear approaches by mixing up how I use the platforms. It allows me to play more aggressively and use less defensive footsies to net my damage and start combos. I can also extend combos using the platforms. It's a little bit harder to ledge trap since the platforms can get in the way sometimes, but them being there makes it so I have to learn to be more precise with how I'm ledge trapping. So it's a bit of a win-lose, but it helps me learn.

That and I have FD PTSD from being locked into that stage for the entirety of Smash 4 online. I still rarely choose it even when I feel like I'll have an advantage. I just like platforms too much, not just necessarily BF platforms.

I’ll defiantly try to make some videos and throw it in here so you can guys can see how a play. Ironically, I have like 7 falco vids saved but none from my lemmy bower jr who’s my best character. I’ll try to get that fixed. I’m starting to like wolf. I use his laser and it’s pretty addicting move, the problem i only can play that wolf like my falco which just means he’ll be a B version of him since falco play style cater best to the move sets he has. So I need more practice with wolf. Plus in general I’m not that good with him. At least compared to the elites. I stay at about 4.2-4.3 mil(inflated because I usally just do team battle where I always fair better then in 1v1) with him.

You scream of a Mario mike brawler type player. I don’t understand how any can think their movement is better on BF. Though I get the part about the ability to do combos better and be more offensively able. Though, say you play a heavy on non projectile omega. Wouldn’t you have even more offensive ability? Those platforms wouldn’t get in your way. Or am I mis understand?

You need to embrace the insanity. I love for glory so much that my rule set is literally dedicated to them. 5 minute, 2 stock omega.

Also, didn’t like how you called my play style degenerate. Kinda hurt my feelings there. Though if I were a non projectile spammer, I’d share your sympathy to fullest extent. So I don’t really hold it against you. The only thing that’s real degenerate are the freaking losers out there who lose a game, then the next game. 10 second frame lag comes out of no where with the same person. WHAT LOSERS!

Also, do you have any ideas how to make a replay and convert it to video I can post here?
Thanks,

 

[Sean²]

Lol the way you're wording this stuff now makes me think you're just trolling. I don't play many CQC fighters, I play Wolf and Marth and dabble in a couple other characters like Richter, Bowser, and Link. Big variety there, still prefer BF for the most part. Just a preference. Platforms don't really get in my way because I know how to play around them effectively.

And I said everything is matchup dependent. I'm fine with FD if it's against a character I like to fight against on FD. If not, I get sick of it pretty fast. And vice versa with BF and any other stage.

Didn't call you degenerate either, but have you ever played anyone who's primary goal is to antagonize and frustrate their opponent for the full time limit? One-sided fun via doing your best to ruin the other player's experience instead of doing your best to win the game is degenerate, not spamming a projectile.

 

[Crescentium]

With falco, I run to the end of the stages and projectile spam my laser. With lemmy, I throw my nano bots all over the stage. With BF, people avoid it by jumping on those stupid platform. And my arieal game is weak so I can’t punish well.

Funny, I have the opposite problem sometimes, my air game is better than my ground game. I guess it's because I like mindlessly edge guarding and juggling the CPU in the training room lol.

Take some time to practice your air game in the training mode, see what works/what doesn't, and work from there. I don't know much about (and even less about , so I'll probably focus on Falco), but I know that Falco's Back Air is good for KO's/combo finishes, Up Air is pretty damn good at juggling, Nair is something of a combo starter, and Fair is a good combo finisher. Falco also has both Up Tilt and Up Smash to punish people hanging out on the lower platforms, which is pretty nice privilege to have when some characters only have Up Tilt or Up Smash that can reach (I believe Lemmy only has Up Tilt and the last hit of Up Smash that can reach.) The top platform's a bit trickier since most characters need a full hop to reach. Staying patient and preparing for them to drop down/land on the lower platforms is one option, sharking with Up Airs is also another option, it can depend on the situation. Since Falco's jump is pretty high, I also recommend practicing short hops and fast falls religiously since getting the wrong jump height can be irritating for starting/extending combos, and then getting into more tech like Reverse Aerial Rush and the like further down the road.

And just slowly toy around with Battlefield (to grow more comfortable with it) and find your own dumb **** you can do with the platforms, especially with Lemmy, I had some fun finding small stuff, but there's probably more stuff that you might discover too:

• If you're on a fall through platform, hold down to drop through the platform, but just as Lemmy is going through the platform, press B. If done correctly, you'll drop through, but a mechakoopa will be placed on the platform you were on.
• If you stand near the edge of the top platform and drop a Mechakoopa, it'll bounce and land on the main stage.
• An uncharged cannon ball from the top platform will generally start falling off stage near the ledge, making it like Villy's bowling ball. Good for catching vertical recoveries. Feel free to throw in some jumps, mix up the timings, or adjust your spacing.

And I make sure to make the person I bested in that stage platform really really miserable if I beat them. Which means a ton of tbags and extra camp. -.-

And needless to say, please don't do this. It doesn't make anyone feel better, including yourself. Hell, they might start doing that back to you. If you start feeling mad about the game, just step away from it, take some deep breaths, and do something relaxing for a while to take your mind off things. Maybe even write about your frustrations in a notebook or go out for a run/exercise a bit to release some of that pent up anger. Best of luck to you.

Also, do you have any ideas how to make a replay and convert it to video I can post here? Thanks,

Usually, I just put the converted video on one of those tiny SD cards (only one I got is with my phone lol), upload to Youtube, and put the link here, I guess. You could go to the Falco/Bowser Jr. boards for specific character critique and maaaaybe post here for general critique if it's not against the rules.

 

[J.I.L]

Funny, I have the opposite problem sometimes, my air game is better than my ground game. I guess it's because I like mindlessly edge guarding and juggling the CPU in the training room lol.

Take some time to practice your air game in the training mode, see what works/what doesn't, and work from there. I don't know much about (and even less about , so I'll probably focus on Falco), but I know that Falco's Back Air is good for KO's/combo finishes, Up Air is pretty damn good at juggling, Nair is something of a combo starter, and Fair is a good combo finisher. Falco also has both Up Tilt and Up Smash to punish people hanging out on the lower platforms, which is pretty nice privilege to have when some characters only have Up Tilt or Up Smash that can reach (I believe Lemmy only has Up Tilt and the last hit of Up Smash that can reach.) The top platform's a bit trickier since most characters need a full hop to reach. Staying patient and preparing for them to drop down/land on the lower platforms is one option, sharking with Up Airs is also another option, it can depend on the situation. Since Falco's jump is pretty high, I also recommend practicing short hops and fast falls religiously since getting the wrong jump height can be irritating for starting/extending combos, and then getting into more tech like Reverse Aerial Rush and the like further down the road.

And just slowly toy around with Battlefield (to grow more comfortable with it) and find your own dumb **** you can do with the platforms, especially with Lemmy, I had some fun finding small stuff, but there's probably more stuff that you might discover too:

• If you're on a fall through platform, hold down to drop through the platform, but just as Lemmy is going through the platform, press B. If done correctly, you'll drop through, but a mechakoopa will be placed on the platform you were on.
• If you stand near the edge of the top platform and drop a Mechakoopa, it'll bounce and land on the main stage.
• An uncharged cannon ball from the top platform will generally start falling off stage near the ledge, making it like Villy's bowling ball. Good for catching vertical recoveries. Feel free to throw in some jumps, mix up the timings, or adjust your spacing.

And needless to say, please don't do this. It doesn't make anyone feel better, including yourself. Hell, they might start doing that back to you. If you start feeling mad about the game, just step away from it, take some deep breaths, and do something relaxing for a while to take your mind off things. Maybe even write about your frustrations in a notebook or go out for a run/exercise a bit to release some of that pent up anger. Best of luck to you.



Usually, I just put the converted video on one of those tiny SD cards (only one I got is with my phone lol), upload to Youtube, and put the link here, I guess. You could go to the Falco/Bowser Jr. boards for specific character critique and maaaaybe post here for general critique if it's not against the rules.

I don't use falcos tilt attacks nor can I really land his back air kick. I was medicore with in smash 4, it only got harder in ultimate. I usually do, I just stay on gound and force them to come to me. It's not impossible to win in BF, it's just harder and more annoying.
I've tried, I've tried to come up with contgency plans to deal with BF. I just can't find any that work, so I just have to rely on my insticnts and skills.
That's the problem, I need my mechokoopas on ground, not going on a useless platform (I even try to waiting on platform where they constantly revert back and forth but my oppnent just up tilts and destorys it while giving me damage). that's why it's difficult.

I know the bounce technique thing, though you have to be at a certain angle and it's not as effcient as doing it from ground or from the air.

I like it when people t-bag me (Pause). I like the competition of it. I've grown so used to t bagging and taunting that those who don't t bag or taunt back actaully make me angry. They seem like obxnious self-righteous insufferable punks wh thinks that not t bagging makes them an good or honorable person. Those people I make even more miserable by t bagging, camp span. Then when I win, they sometimes want to re-match. I click rematch, then when I see them in room ready to re match I quit immedialty. People who don't t bag back I get triggered just as a much as the non t bagger who get t bagged. And I get angry more so then in smash 4 because this online system is a peice of garbage made by inept design makers who should all be fired.

Also, with a gsp of 4.640 million when the elite threshold is 4.55 million, I've porbbly made a ton of people miserable at this game.

 

[Lunardog15]

kirby can get some stupid KOs by down b through the top platform so bf for me

 

[Xquirtle]

FD is, on average, a more polarizing stage than BF. FD is just ridiculous for corner camping and abusive strategies. It basically robs a melee ranged character of any means to approach without committing to something significant, like a jump. I'd say that basically all players trying to abuse some sort of cheese or dishonest play style will pick FD since the platforms almost always offer a place to stand where the B buttons can't hit for free. I just can't think of an abusive reason to pick BF specifically (like in the context of online QP), but tons of abusive reasons to pick FD.

That being said, BF is still hardly a neutral stage such as PS2. The tri-plats are overly annoying to play around and landing is too hard. I understand why people don't like it, but i would say that it is overall a better stage for the online meta since it offers such strong options to avoid the obnoxious camping play styles that basically destroy the online experience. With Pichu, BF is a serious issue since its almost impossible to catch somebody with bad DI in a lower kill % up throw to down B (which works all the time online even though its so easy to DI). The up throw - jump / follow DI - down B's still work thru the platforms, but those require much higher % before the thunder spike can connect. For that particular reason, i play FD on Pichu. Its just such a huge loss to give up those kills.

 

[J.I.L]

FD is, on average, a more polarizing stage than BF. FD is just ridiculous for corner camping and abusive strategies. It basically robs a melee ranged character of any means to approach without committing to something significant, like a jump. I'd say that basically all players trying to abuse some sort of cheese or dishonest play style will pick FD since the platforms almost always offer a place to stand where the B buttons can't hit for free. I just can't think of an abusive reason to pick BF specifically (like in the context of online QP), but tons of abusive reasons to pick FD.

That being said, BF is still hardly a neutral stage such as PS2. The tri-plats are overly annoying to play around and landing is too hard. I understand why people don't like it, but i would say that it is overall a better stage for the online meta since it offers such strong options to avoid the obnoxious camping play styles that basically destroy the online experience. With Pichu, BF is a serious issue since its almost impossible to catch somebody with bad DI in a lower kill % up throw to down B (which works all the time online even though its so easy to DI). The up throw - jump / follow DI - down B's still work thru the platforms, but those require much higher % before the thunder spike can connect. For that particular reason, i play FD on Pichu. Its just such a huge loss to give up those kills.

Even though there was some things you said which made me role my eye ( about the FD abusive stage... even though it’s 100% accurate. A big reason I dislike BF, is because it’s easier to avoid my projectile spam), your essay/small review was very well done. Felt like a read a short college paper giving a review on something. I like how you had pro and cons for both then effectively made some sort of conclusion about it. I may not be able to explain, but in my first read... I was really impressed by your essay composition. It felt professional. Anyway enough of the praise, time for the disagreements!

On your point on abusive, a lot of characters like Snakes and richter head over to BF to really do some cheese hair pulling/controller breaking tactics. Samus mains too. Though it’s 50/50 with samus.

But the platforms as you said, mr. squirrtle, they are so annoying to move around. Especially if you are someone who likes staying on ground. That’s why I think it’s stuupid. Flat stages are IMO objectively the best.

 

[Xquirtle]

Even though there was some things you said which made me role my eye ( about the FD abusive stage... even though it’s 100% accurate. A big reason I dislike BF, is because it’s easier to avoid my projectile spam), your essay/small review was very well done. Felt like a read a short college paper giving a review on something. I like how you had pro and cons for both then effectively made some sort of conclusion about it. I may not be able to explain, but in my first read... I was really impressed by your essay composition. It felt professional. Anyway enough of the praise, time for the disagreements!

On your point on abusive, a lot of characters like Snakes and richter head over to BF to really do some cheese hair pulling/controller breaking tactics. Samus mains too. Though it’s 50/50 with samus.

But the platforms as you said, mr. squirrtle, they are so annoying to move around. Especially if you are someone who likes staying on ground. That’s why I think it’s stuupid. Flat stages are IMO objectively the best.

I don't disagree about snake and richter benefiting from BF in spite of their campy playstyle, but I don't find that to be as common across the cast. If you take it from the perspective of say, Lucina, where you literally get camped in 85% of your online games, the need for the platforms becomes more evident. Like its not a cheese to play BF on Luci. Its a way to avoid everybody elses cheese. Note that I called FD a polarizing stage that allows for abusive strategies / cheese. For example, picture that you are in the 500k GSP meta. B only Ganon cheese is far stronger on FD than BF since hes sweeping huge hitboxes across the ground. I know you don't play in that meta, but it does exist and just serves as an extreme example. I'd go back to the Luci example and imagine trying to play a dedicated camper Link on FD with her. Its not fun, but a few platforms can add a whole new dynamic to the match.

I'll put it like this. I think that BF generally impacts most characters and match ups in a more even way than FD. It either doesn't matter and the platforms are just there, or it gives characters without projectiles a means to better avoid them. Its just an extra tool and you can just jump laser to continue to force their movement. This is in comparison to FD that heavily favors a ranged character attempting to camp a slow or melee character. The tournament stages are a great example of this. There is one FD option and many many platform options. You can also look at other games such as melee where FD is picked because it is incredibly favorable against Puff or gives infinite chain grabs etc.

Overall - I'd say PS2 is way more fair than BF, but I still think BF is closer to neutral than FD due to FD favoring projectile camping so heavily

 

[J.I.L]

I don't disagree about snake and richter benefiting from BF in spite of their campy playstyle, but I don't find that to be as common across the cast. If you take it from the perspective of say, Lucina, where you literally get camped in 85% of your online games, the need for the platforms becomes more evident. Like its not a cheese to play BF on Luci. Its a way to avoid everybody elses cheese. Note that I called FD a polarizing stage that allows for abusive strategies / cheese. For example, picture that you are in the 500k GSP meta. B only Ganon cheese is far stronger on FD than BF since hes sweeping huge hitboxes across the ground. I know you don't play in that meta, but it does exist and just serves as an extreme example. I'd go back to the Luci example and imagine trying to play a dedicated camper Link on FD with her. Its not fun, but a few platforms can add a whole new dynamic to the match.

I'll put it like this. I think that BF generally impacts most characters and match ups in a more even way than FD. It either doesn't matter and the platforms are just there, or it gives characters without projectiles a means to better avoid them. Its just an extra tool and you can just jump laser to continue to force their movement. This is in comparison to FD that heavily favors a ranged character attempting to camp a slow or melee character. The tournament stages are a great example of this. There is one FD option and many many platform options. You can also look at other games such as melee where FD is picked because it is incredibly favorable against Puff or gives infinite chain grabs etc.

Overall - I'd say PS2 is way more fair than BF, but I still think BF is closer to neutral than FD due to FD favoring projectile camping so heavily

Lucina is actaully stupid OP on BF. Even with my best character, lemmy, I struggle to beat her on FD. Her on BF is almost becoming impossible, havent played enough of her to have enough data for conclusion. So I don't pity her.

Tch...you make good points. Still, for us campers/zoners and prjectile spammers... BF stages are really annoying to deal with. Espcially with my bower Jr, buecause as I said, like to throw my projectile from sky. I even hover over my players and do UP B which essitantly drops his bomb. I play like an air craft bomber when I use his projectile but those dumb ledges act as a bunker which is annoying.

Even with falco, it dosen't effect him as much but it still does. I mean, apart from the obvious fact people jump on ledges to avoid my laser. I can't punish as well when they do that in BF then on FD. When people jump over my laser, I quickly do up side a where he likes spins hits them. It pushes the player back and I get more time to get some laser attacks. Usually that whole thing gets about 25% damage. With BF, people don't hae linear jump style (where they jump over your laser to get to you).... they just jump on ledges. then move methodically, so it's harder to punish.

 

[Xquirtle]

Lucina is actaully stupid OP on BF. Even with my best character, lemmy, I struggle to beat her on FD. Her on BF is almost becoming impossible, havent played enough of her to have enough data for conclusion. So I don't pity her.

Tch...you make good points. Still, for us campers/zoners and prjectile spammers... BF stages are really annoying to deal with. Espcially with my bower Jr, buecause as I said, like to throw my projectile from sky. I even hover over my players and do UP B which essitantly drops his bomb. I play like an air craft bomber when I use his projectile but those dumb ledges act as a bunker which is annoying.

Even with falco, it dosen't effect him as much but it still does. I mean, apart from the obvious fact people jump on ledges to avoid my laser. I can't punish as well when they do that in BF then on FD. When people jump over my laser, I quickly do up side a where he likes spins hits them. It pushes the player back and I get more time to get some laser attacks. Usually that whole thing gets about 25% damage. With BF, people don't hae linear jump style (where they jump over your laser to get to you).... they just jump on ledges. then move methodically, so it's harder to punish.

Yeah, i mean if you're trying to maximize your wins and you like to camp, then FD is the better choice online. I just don't think it prepares you as well for the stage set used at a local tournament for example.

and I'm not saying that short ranged characters can't deal with projectile camp, but I do think that it is disproportionately difficult to deal with on FD. This is in comparison to how easy it is to stand in the corner and throw out hitboxes. The number of players that do this is evidence of how effective it is online. Like if I play Luci, i get camped basically 90% of the time online, even on BF. They just can't do it as easily on BF.

 

[J.I.L]

Yeah, i mean if you're trying to maximize your wins and you like to camp, then FD is the better choice online. I just don't think it prepares you as well for the stage set used at a local tournament for example.

and I'm not saying that short ranged characters can't deal with projectile camp, but I do think that it is disproportionately difficult to deal with on FD. This is in comparison to how easy it is to stand in the corner and throw out hitboxes. The number of players that do this is evidence of how effective it is online. Like if I play Luci, i get camped basically 90% of the time online, even on BF. They just can't do it as easily on BF.

i'm sick OF THIS! Lost to infeior players who just won (after I choked leads) because of their stupid BF stages. If people want to play like that, we can do that. Any time I lose to an BF stage user, I'm changing from falco and lemmy to my troll character ness. Putting on 1 stock 100 stamnia with smash balls, assist trophies and pokemon balls. BTW, I'm also in elite smash with ness.

People want to play on a stupid stage, i'll give them a stupid ruleset. It's just that simple.

 

[Sucumbio]

You'll always strike bf in tournament and never be ready for when you have to handle platform jank. Sword chrs on bf are as inane as mk in brawl except it is not degenerate bc stage striking (and projectile heavy as this game is it's definitely a relief for non projectile characters.) That X shaped in zone is a menace to deal with so naturally you keep to the ledges which is pretty much guaranteed disadvantage. If you can break it up, it's not unwinnable by any means.

 

[Xquirtle]

You'll always strike bf in tournament and never be ready for when you have to handle platform jank. Sword chrs on bf are as inane as mk in brawl except it is not degenerate bc stage striking (and projectile heavy as this game is it's definitely a relief for non projectile characters.) That X shaped in zone is a menace to deal with so naturally you keep to the ledges which is pretty much guaranteed disadvantage. If you can break it up, it's not unwinnable by any means.

Yeah thats why I keep pointing to PS2 as a good blend of size and platforms. BF is a bit small horizontally, so its easy to smother certain characters, but idk if i care lol. Like if I imagine what I'd like the online meta to look like, it would be way more emphasis on actually fighting and less on camping. I'd actually have FD removed from the option list if possible. Or ideally, just have it rotate the standard competitive stages for us.

 

[Sean²]

Putting on 1 stock 100 stamnia with smash balls, assist trophies and pokemon balls. BTW, I'm also in elite smash with ness.

Folks, after years of conspiracies and speculation, I think we've finally discovered the identity of the Antichrist. He's been right here all along.

 

[lucasla]

FD is, on average, a more polarizing stage than BF. FD is just ridiculous for corner camping and abusive strategies. It basically robs a melee ranged character of any means to approach without committing to something significant, like a jump. I'd say that basically all players trying to abuse some sort of cheese or dishonest play style will pick FD since the platforms almost always offer a place to stand where the B buttons can't hit for free. I just can't think of an abusive reason to pick BF specifically (like in the context of online QP), but tons of abusive reasons to pick FD.

That being said, BF is still hardly a neutral stage such as PS2. The tri-plats are overly annoying to play around and landing is too hard. I understand why people don't like it, but i would say that it is overall a better stage for the online meta since it offers such strong options to avoid the obnoxious camping play styles that basically destroy the online experience. With Pichu, BF is a serious issue since its almost impossible to catch somebody with bad DI in a lower kill % up throw to down B (which works all the time online even though its so easy to DI). The up throw - jump / follow DI - down B's still work thru the platforms, but those require much higher % before the thunder spike can connect. For that particular reason, i play FD on Pichu. Its just such a huge loss to give up those kills.

That's why I support the idea of the Battlefield stages with more variation. A simple stage with some plataform, but this plataform can change to adjust to new strategies and not be so annoying for players. Something like this:

 

[J.I.L]

Folks, after years of conspiracies and speculation, I think we've finally discovered the identity of the Antichrist. He's been right here all along.

Lol, so I went on a terrible losing strea with falco (his combat game has been nerfed heavily. His smash attacks are a joke) and when I was on the door way of elite smash. I tried to put on that rule set so I can get carried back to somewhere deep in elite smash, agian. Problem is it doesn’t work. The game seems to have in built mechanisms to punish that because I only gain like 10,000 gsp, but will lose like 30,000 if I lose. Even when deep in elite smash, I gain only 200, and lose like 1000. No matter the gsp of my oppent. I have to put in back like workable rule set again. (I do 5 minute, 2 stock omega stage).

 

[Xquirtle]

That's why I support the idea of the Battlefield stages with more variation. A simple stage with some plataform, but this plataform can change to adjust to new strategies and not be so annoying for players. Something like this:

View attachment 218742

Any of the above would be better than FD and BF only. Although, i don't think that BF is annoying to players by default. It is annoying to people that are trying to use the most annoying strategies / gimmicks in the game, and little mac mains, which is a good thing. Anyway, you've sort of represented the most common competitive stages in the diagram. Nintendo could just use the existing competitive stage list with or without moving platforms, but i don't know if I'd actually trust them to manage a stage set. In fact, that would be certain disaster.

 

[meleebrawler]

Any of the above would be better than FD and BF only. Although, i don't think that BF is annoying to players by default. It is annoying to people that are trying to use the most annoying strategies / gimmicks in the game, and little mac mains, which is a good thing. Anyway, you've sort of represented the most common competitive stages in the diagram. Nintendo could just use the existing competitive stage list with or without moving platforms, but i don't know if I'd actually trust them to manage a stage set. In fact, that would be certain disaster.

Of course it would. It's not like the players themselves constantly struggle and debate what stages should be legal, right?

A thread like this is a good example of why we can't have a nice theoretical competitive online mode. The stages matter far too much here compared to any other fighting game. You either stick to one and let certain characters and playstyles thrive over others or you allow multiple and introduce another random element that can tilt players.

 

[J.I.L]

You'll always strike bf in tournament and never be ready for when you have to handle platform jank. Sword chrs on bf are as inane as mk in brawl except it is not degenerate bc stage striking (and projectile heavy as this game is it's definitely a relief for non projectile characters.) That X shaped in zone is a menace to deal with so naturally you keep to the ledges which is pretty much guaranteed disadvantage. If you can break it up, it's not unwinnable by any means.

Oh cmon... can you really blame me for the frusteration? I went from 4.64 mil to 4.20 million! This online system is straight garbage, you know that.

 

[meleebrawler]

Oh cmon... can you really blame me for the frusteration? I went from 4.64 mil to 4.20 million! This online system is straight garbage, you know that.

Ah yes, using online complaints as a shield versus admitting your own shortcomings and hoping it results in others rushing to your defence and comfort you. Classy. The characters I have above 4.6 million never fall far below that unless I get massively tilted by a losing streak.

 

[Sucumbio]

Oh cmon... can you really blame me for the frusteration? I went from 4.64 mil to 4.20 million! This online system is straight garbage, you know that.

I don't blame you one bit for being frustrated with online. I've not played quickplay all week. This is the first smash game I've played that I didn't look forward to playing daily for up to 4 hours or more. Granted I'm busier with work etc but still... That magic is gone. They went and messed up a decent thing by overthinking and under developing.

However my point is that BF is and always has been centric which is why fd and sv are thrown in so starters are fair choice. But in tournament if I know you'll always strike bf I have an advantage.

 

[J.I.L]

I don't blame you one bit for being frustrated with online. I've not played quickplay all week. This is the first smash game I've played that I didn't look forward to playing daily for up to 4 hours or more. Granted I'm busier with work etc but still... That magic is gone. They went and messed up a decent thing by overthinking and under developing.

However my point is that BF is and always has been centric which is why fd and sv are thrown in so starters are fair choice. But in tournament if I know you'll always strike bf I have an advantage.

Ah... that's not what i'm talking about. You gave me a strike on my account for complaining about this online system on another thread.
meleebrawler Watch it. Start a one-on-one BA and give me your code and i'll come show you my "short comings" with my falco. This has nothing to do with short comings, just the realization of how putrid this online system is.

 

[Xquirtle]

I don't blame you one bit for being frustrated with online. I've not played quickplay all week. This is the first smash game I've played that I didn't look forward to playing daily for up to 4 hours or more. Granted I'm busier with work etc but still... That magic is gone. They went and messed up a decent thing by overthinking and under developing.

However my point is that BF is and always has been centric which is why fd and sv are thrown in so starters are fair choice. But in tournament if I know you'll always strike bf I have an advantage.

I'd say that knowing that your opponent plays 90% of their practice games on FD is an even juicer opportunity to abuse them. You also get your own bans

 

[Sucumbio]

Yep sv ends up dominating and swordies do fine on sv.

J.I.L I got you pls make a thread in forum support or pm me thx

 

[Venclaire]

I prefer BF all-the-way to FD at any time of day.

If I had to choose between only playing on BF or FD for the rest of time, I'd choose BF in a heartbeat. There are a lot more colorful interactions to be had on BF that are simply impossible on FD. FD is flat, narrow, and restricts movement greatly. It is extremely polarizing and downright unfun to play on at times. I'd rather play on Lylat, Yoshi's Island Brawl, and even Castle Siege before FD.

 

[J.I.L]

I prefer BF all-the-way to FD at any time of day.

If I had to choose between only playing on BF or FD for the rest of time, I'd choose BF in a heartbeat. There are a lot more colorful interactions to be had on BF that are simply impossible on FD. FD is flat, narrow, and restricts movement greatly. It is extremely polarizing and downright unfun to play on at times. I'd rather play on Lylat, Yoshi's Island Brawl, and even Castle Siege before FD.

Hmph, you must be a casual player.

 

[Venclaire]

Hmph, you must be a casual player.

I've been going to tournaments since early 2014

Hazards off for Lylat/Yoshi's/Castle Siege ofc.

 

[Xquirtle]

I've been going to tournaments since early 2014

Hazards off for Lylat/Yoshi's/Castle Siege ofc.

Hes trolling

 

[J.I.L]

Hes trolling

I’m not trolling. I genuinely don’t understand how any serious smash players who’s not a coward like BF stages. That stage sucks donkey nuts. I’m getting better on how to successfully zone and camp in that stage, but still... an annoying stage. That venclaire woman said she had better movement. What? Idk what she was talking about. Just didnt bother to respond.


Edit: just looked at my poll. HOW IS FD LOSING 11 to 7!? What!? I thought FD HAD THIS THING IN THE BAG!

 

[Venclaire]

I’m not trolling. I genuinely don’t understand how any serious smash players who’s not a coward like BF stages. That stage sucks donkey nuts. I’m getting better on how to successfully zone and camp in that stage, but still... an annoying stage. That venclaire woman said she had better movement. What? Idk what she was talking about. Just didnt bother to respond.


Edit: just looked at my poll. HOW IS FD LOSING 11 to 7!? What!? I thought FD HAD THIS THING IN THE BAG!

If you want a full analysis, I can really give one on the differences between FD and BF. In terms of movement, the simplest way to explain it is this way:

On FD, the only form of movement you have is horizontal, left and right. Smash is a platform fighter, you're meant to be in the air jumping about and fighting. FD COMPLETELY removes that last part to a great degree.

On BF, you have every form of movement available to you. Vertical and horizontal. Verticality is a big part of Smash in terms of positioning and stage control. As I said earlier, Smash is a platform fighter. Remove the platforms, and you just have an (arguably) below average fighting game.

Smart use of platforms can help extend combos, tech chases, and pushing your advantage state (or even getting out of the disadvantage state against certain characters) that FD can't.

You can reply to what I said above if you wish, but I have a more specific question: How long have you been playing in tournaments if any (local, paid entree, official ruleset) and how long have you been attempting to play competitively? It feels like you haven't been exposed to the true Smash competitive community yet.