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Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

Quidohmi

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This is not just a fake leak. It is IMPERSONATING NINTENDO and ADVERTISING on their behalf. Not only that, but it’s implicating a business partnership with 4 SEPARATE COMPANIES that, if this IS a fake, have NOTHING to do with Smash Bros DLC.
That... is true. And even more serious if this is fake. From my layman's perspective at least. If it's fake then could all four of those companies take separate legal action against whoever made the ad?
 

Organization XIII

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That... is true. And even more serious if this is fake. From my layman's perspective at least. If it's fake then could all four of those companies take separate legal action against whoever made the ad?
No they won't. The ads don't mention any of the characters being a part of the pass. That's just fan interpretation. For the company's to be able to justify legal action they'd have to show this some how hurt them financially and with the increased exposure the research into this theory has caused they'd have an extremely tough time proving any damages. Especially since they likely didn't suffer any anyways. The others company's won't produce legal action nor do they have any real claim to any.
 
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TheAnvil

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We know Rare has an unannounced project. That will very likely be unveiled at E3.

(Personally I doubt it's Conker as the game was very much the vision of one man who no longer works at Rare and the current political climate would make an edgy nonpc game like that extremely difficult)
 
D

Deleted member

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I will say that if Banjo & Kazooie make into Smash Bros.......my life will officially be complete. I'll never ask for anything ever again and I won't care if Goku and Shrek make it in as well. None of that will matter because the bear and bird finally made it in.

We'll see though. I was definitely one of the ones burned by the Grinch Leak lol.
 

TheCJBrine

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Some people are taking Microsoft and Sony's partnership as being bad for B-K in Smash and I don't understand why.

Microsoft and Nintendo are still partnered as well, it's not different from how Nintendo works with other companies.
 

MissingGlitch

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Some people are taking Microsoft and Sony's partnership as being bad for B-K in Smash and I don't understand why.

Microsoft and Nintendo are still partnered as well, it's not different from how Nintendo works with other companies.
Microsoft's game plan is to be on the most things as possible. The more people use their services the better. It's why they want to bring game pass to everything. So this should be no surprise to anyone.
 

Guynamednelson

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Some people are taking Microsoft and Sony's partnership as being bad for B-K in Smash and I don't understand why.

Microsoft and Nintendo are still partnered as well, it's not different from how Nintendo works with other companies.
They want to **** on Banjo by any means.
 

MissingGlitch

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Could just be related to the new Battletoads
I didn't even think about that. This seems like the more likely reason really. I keep forgetting the new Battletoads even exist since it was just kinda announced and nothing new has come from it in forever.
 
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ChunkySlugger72

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Rare's announcement could likely be a new project, I mean they did say they had another game/project in the works along side the development of Sea of Thieves and they are a big studio with at least 2 teams, But to be honest if I was Microsoft I would have Rare hold off on it until the launch of the next Xbox, That is if they unveil it this E3.

Battletoads was already announced last year and Rare is only assisting Dlala Studios who are the main developers behind the game which shouldn't be too ambitious of a project and could possibly be a $20-40 Digital game.
 
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Evil Trapezium

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Hey I just created this account because I want to get in on this Google theory speculation. I have too much free time and this looks like a lot of fun because I'm an avid Banjo Kazooie supporter. I hope to stick around until the sweet or bitter end.

I believe in the Google theory as it looks like it's got a lot going for it. Unlike the Grinch leak (Which I believed in too), it kept leading us to speculate how it was made instead of how it connected to Nintendo's plans, Google theory actively keeps us speculating about the characters in the DLC with leakers like Polar Panda and Sabi adding to the theory so I'm going for the innocent until proven guilty method for this theory.
 
D

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Someone’s trying to debunk the theory
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

MissingGlitch

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I don't like his way of saying "its fake because someone can fake it" which seems like the laziest way of proving your point. Really his only interesting point is that it doesn't cost a lot of money to run google ads but then he doesn't show any proof on that. When what I have found is that even a small business using google advertisements would cost like $100,000-$200,000 a month.
 
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MissingGlitch

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I don't like his arguments. Mostly because
A. He doesn't provide any proof on how much money it costs for ads. He just basically says "trust me on this"
B. He uses the example of store listings to show you can advertise smash bros which we all already knew that it was ok to do so. AKA making ads for an Amazon listing. Which isn't the same thing from doing a direct link to Nintendo's website which someone already proved you can't use the exact fighterpass URL since Nintendo is already using it.

All this amounts to is that "it can still be faked"
 
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Quidohmi

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I don't like his arguments. Mostly because
A. He doesn't provide any proof on how much money it costs for ads. He just basically says "trust me on this"
B. He uses the example of store listings to show you can advertise smash bros which we all already knew that it was ok to do so. AKA making ads for an Amazon listing. Which isn't the same thing from doing a direct link to Nintendo's website which someone already proved you can't use the exact fighterpass URL since Nintendo is already using it.

All this amounts to is that "it can still be faked"
Right. It's impossible to disprove something. Unless someone can come forward and prove they faked it or more evidence comes forward to prove it was faked then it's really just a waiting game. If it's fake we'll almost definitely know within a month.
 

TheAnvil

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You know people keep saying "this can be faked, trust me". But how about we see somebody actually replicate it and prove it? Then we can all move on and put the theory to bed.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Banjo Kazooie, Ryu Hayubusa, Doom Slayer and Artorias still returning searches as negative keywords?
 
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Cheezey Bites

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None of the pictures from the google theory are using the exact fighterpass url. That's why they 404. Is that not a red flag to you?
Surely that's because they're ad redirections, they track for Google in their particular country, but you're inputting them from somewhere that doesn't match the tracking data. If you click the link it takes you to the fighter pass overview page just fine.

As for searchability, trapezium, I've just gotten the ad off Banjo, Artorias and Doom Slayer, so I assume not (Hayabusa didn't return though)
 
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papagenos

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You know people keep saying "this can be faked, trust me". But how about we see somebody actually replicate it and prove it? Then we can all move on and put the theory to bed.
This.

I've said numerous times that I don't really believe "Google Theory" though I also don't think its faked either (personally I think its google algorithm being weird bringing up the Smash DLC ad alongside these character names because of weird google algorithm reasons) BUT every time someone claims it can "easily be faked", I always just ask them to add a name to it then, fake it so we can see its doable and be done with it.

But no one has yet, in which case it will remain a curiosity until either E3 reveals a character or two OR someone can actually create a new fake character for the ad and show us it is possible to do so.
 

TheAnvil

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This.

I've said numerous times that I don't really believe "Google Theory" though I also don't think its faked either (personally I think its google algorithm being weird bringing up the Smash DLC ad alongside these character names because of weird google algorithm reasons) BUT every time someone claims it can "easily be faked", I always just ask them to add a name to it then, fake it so we can see its doable and be done with it.

But no one has yet, in which case it will remain a curiosity until either E3 reveals a character or two OR someone can actually create a new fake character for the ad and show us it is possible to do so.
The shoddy "debunking" tactics are part of the reason the Grinch theory took off so much. Nobody could debunk it and when people come up with faulty reasons why it's debunked it makes the leak (or in this case theory) look stronger and you find yourself defending it and buying into it more yourself as a result lol.
 

Evil Trapezium

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As for searchability, trapezium, I've just gotten the ad off Banjo, Artorias and Doom Slayer, so I assume not (Hayabusa didn't return though)
So the ads are back up? That is rather peculiar behaviour. Why would they put the keywords back up after making them negative? If the idea was to keep people from knowing about these characters, surely they would keep them negative.
 
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Violante

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Rare could be inviting f4f exclusively as a courtesy for making the figures of their characters that are already in circulation. I don't think there's any hidden message there.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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That... is true. And even more serious if this is fake. From my layman's perspective at least. If it's fake then could all four of those companies take separate legal action against whoever made the ad?
They can and there's a strong chance they would.

It's a pretty big deal, with the hefty impersonation, false advertising, etc. It's a straight-out criminal act by law.

But that doesn't mean Nintendo has to go very far with the lawsuit either. Nor the other companies. There's going to be details. The idea they're making money off of the ads means they still got some money out of this, so that could persuade them to lower the amount of the lawsuit. Of course, they might not care about that and still make them pay a hefty fine for the criminal acts regardless. It's up to them. The important part is how much of a risk they are at for the fake ads existing. If they risk losing their trademark(as pointed out as a possibility), they will file a lawsuit without question. They have to, because why would they risk something like that? That's just dumb to even ignore, no matter how petty the situation is. That's very important for companies. Petty things sometimes have to be taken seriously if it calls for it. And I don't mean for making an example out of someone either. That's not really an important goal for companies by default. Some can, some will, some won't. Keeping their IP's from being used by others without their permission is a major goal as is. It's basic business. Protect your product.

Should also be noted that the Judge has to okay the amount of the lawsuit being paid in fines too. For this reason, some compromises may not be possible. For instance, a temporary bricking of the faker's Switch online features wouldn't be reasonable despite it being a slight to Nintendo. Unless they outright used their Switch's online browser to actually make the ads, it doesn't correlate. So the Judge will make sure the punishment is fair/reasonable. Or we hope they would, as that's their job(but many don't bother to do a good job of being neutral).
 

MonkeyDLenny

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Google Theory still lives, kind of

He's shown that it CAN be faked, but not that it IS

For one thing, his example of how someone can make an ad for Nintendo is using Amazon.

Amazon is a storefront where you can sell your own products
Nintendo is a private company selling their own private products

Your store could be a video game store selling Smash, but it's still YOUR store

Also, for this to be faked they would be bidding against Nintendo themselves

20190516_170859.jpg


So for the fake ads to be seen, they would have to somehow spend more money than Nintendo does for advertising, consistently for a sustained period
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Google Theory still lives, kind of

He's shown that it CAN be faked, but not that it IS

For one thing, his example of how someone can make an ad for Nintendo is using Amazon.

Amazon is a storefront where you can sell your own products
Nintendo is a private company selling their own private products

Your store could be a video game store selling Smash, but it's still YOUR store

Also, for this to be faked they would be bidding against Nintendo themselves

View attachment 221011

So for the fake ads to be seen, they would have to somehow spend more money than Nintendo does for advertising, consistently for a sustained period
Though this could be why some of the ads went down for a while, as they couldn't pay for a bit.

But yeah, it's possible for it to be faked. I agree it's not likely, but there's no hard evidence going either way.

Anyway, I find the character list interesting if it's true. I mean, it isn't my favorite Rareware option, nor Namco-Bandai option by any means, but it's still a neat list of cool characters. Very popular ones too. Plus, Doom. Doom is awesome.
 

Nazyrus

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Google Theory still lives, kind of

He's shown that it CAN be faked, but not that it IS

For one thing, his example of how someone can make an ad for Nintendo is using Amazon.

Amazon is a storefront where you can sell your own products
Nintendo is a private company selling their own private products

Your store could be a video game store selling Smash, but it's still YOUR store

Also, for this to be faked they would be bidding against Nintendo themselves

View attachment 221011

So for the fake ads to be seen, they would have to somehow spend more money than Nintendo does for advertising, consistently for a sustained period
Yeah someone would be really stupid if they were determined to throw away money to troll for longer. I accepted that this has chances of being faked but if it was fake it would mean some really stupid stuff being done by someone. I remain 50/50 on this in the end... less than a month to get the next reveal and that should hopefully put to rest many other leaks too.
 

TheAnvil

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Unless someone actually REPLICATES this, we aren't going to get our answer until E3
^This

I very very much doubt that this is faked. I'm not at all convinced that someone CAN actually create this ad outside of Nintendo (or it'd have been done already by some jabroni who really wants their favorite character or whatever), and even if it can there's so much money involved for a THEORY that people only happened to piece together randomly to make that a plausible scenario. This theory may have never even come to be if that guy didn't happen to google Banjo that day.


I much more strongly maintain that this is some kind of bizarre algorithmic goof than anything else.
 

Evil Trapezium

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How do you replicate it?
I've messaged the guy to tell him to make an ad for the Smash Ultimate website because he claims that it's very cheap to make.
 
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Justin Little

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I don't want to hype myself up, but I have a good feeling this will be a great E3 for us RARE fans. RARE still has an unannounced project that might get revealed this year, RARE Replay has been teased for the Switch, Playtonic teased some kind of mid-year announcement on one of their videos, we have a new Battletoads to look forward to, Retro will most likely reveal what they have been working on which could very well be a new DK, and to top it off Banjo Kazooie could potentially be in Smash Bros. regardless if this theory is true or not. Obviously, most of this is speculation and some of it probably won't be revealed at E3, but it would be the best time to do it. ;)
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah someone would be really stupid if they were determined to throw away money to troll for longer. I accepted that this has chances of being faked but if it was fake it would mean some really stupid stuff being done by someone. I remain 50/50 on this in the end... less than a month to get the next reveal and that should hopefully put to rest many other leaks too.
We've seen proof that some will spend tons of cash to troll others. He's called MarioTehPlumber. While I don't like to keep throwing him under the bus(as speaking ill of others isn't really a nice thing to do, no matter who the user is. It's something we aren't trying to promote, but there's no other useful way to put it that makes some remote sense), he's the only good analogy here.

We shouldn't dismiss this as a possible fake(or that someone would go out of their way to spend thousands of cash to troll). It's not the most common thing(which is a fair thing to be skeptical someone would do this), but it happens. Everybody has different thoughts, obsessions, etc. Some don't think logically. For the example given, he's a case of Insane Troll Logic. Though I'll at least chuckle if he really was the one behind this.
 

Violante

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If it is a fake then it was unbelievably lucky that someone managed to figure it out and share it with everyone, despite the bizarre preconditions required to even observe it, unless whoever pointed it out was part of the fake.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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If it is a fake then it was unbelievably lucky that someone managed to figure it out and share it with everyone, despite the bizarre preconditions required to even observe it, unless whoever pointed it out was part of the fake.
It's quite easily possible the faker simply told DuckMeat the details. So it might not have been luck-related at all. Well, besides DuckMeat being the chosen guy to reveal the ad information to(as in he's the "lucky" one to be picked).
 

Organization XIII

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They can and there's a strong chance they would.

It's a pretty big deal, with the hefty impersonation, false advertising, etc. It's a straight-out criminal act by law.
Ok, so first by the legal definition of false advertising, what this person did doesn't qualify. False advertising constitutes the contents of the ad not who makes the ad. The ad is accurate to the state of the fighter pass, it does not claim more than 5 characters, it doesn't state who any of the characters are, it states the characters are DLC and for the correct game. Legally it is not false advertising.
Impersonation is a possible offense for this in certain circumstances. There is a thing know as False Lights laws which do cover true statements used in a way to misinform people, which creating an ad to make people think characters will be in a game might qualify. But there is still a problem. False lights laws aren't usually recognized. In fact, from what I can tell only 4 states have them and only Califonia recognizes that true statements used to misinform people as false lighting. since the ads are European based I tried to track down false light laws in Europe but found couldn't get any results. Doesn't mean they don't exist just means I can't personally find them because they are buried under more local results.
And as for IPs again the other companies other than Nintendo would have no case civilly (criminal cases don't work against individuals they are against society and as far as I can tell criminal laws work the same overseas). The ads simply appear on the characters pages and don't say anything about the character's involvement, nor is there any damages so no grounds for cases for the companies other than Nintendo.
Now for IP protection that would be immediate grounds for legal action from Nintendo, but they aren't in danger of losing their IP rights for this. To be stripped of IP rights they'd have to allow for someone to use their IPs for their own benefit, say if the person was making a Pokemon themed restaurant without authorization that would be something they need to strike to retain IP protection. This person is not using the IP for their own endeavors but rather of their own volition bolstering Nintendo's which provides no threat to them intellectually. And finally, there are situations which do allow for unauthorized use of IP without being illegal mostly covered by fair use and one of the biggest use for fair use is actually advertising. You can indeed use another company's IP without their permission in an ad so long as it doesn't break other civil rights like defamation or libel. Usually, those are for informative purposes or comparisons but the point is that it protected. Now there are some criteria used to determine fair use and mostly decided on a case by case basis but according to the criteria since this ad makes the person who did it no money, isn't transformative, and doesn't harm the host company financially, that's a strong case for it being allowed.
But the biggest thing to know for a fact Nintendo won't sue is that the first step in IP cases is that companies issue a C&D (as Nintendo loves to do) and the reason for this is it makes it so they don't have to go to court and pay litigation fees. They will protect their IP fiercely but they will almost always go the cheap route first, and if that doesn't pan out only then do they pursue further legal action. See Souljaboy and his counterfeit consoles or ROMs.
 
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