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Banjo-Kazooie really didn't get any love like Joker or Hero.

Brothanigus

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Seriously, this is ridiculous. Joker has an alternate costume, multiple versions of his stage, AND special end screens. Hero gets FOUR alternate costumes, AND a crap load of special moves. And then there's Banjo-Kazooie. No Dragon Kazooie, no Grunty boss, No alternate skins at all, nothing special, no beach lounging end screen, and on top of that Wonder Wing is terrible.

I really think Sakurai was forced to add B&K, that's why his release is just....meh.
 

TennisBall

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Banjo got 7 remixes made by the original composer of the first game, a stage that actually rotates while you're playing, with constant attention to the background you'll probably never notice, Wonder Wing is an amazing move that beats out Warlock Punch, KO Punch, Magic Burst and Thwack, and on top of that is a recovery mix-up, not to mention the tiny little things, and the fact that so much effort was put into retaining the character's original characteristics in tact. I say Banjo got treated very well.
 

G-Guy

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There is so much care and attention put into his animations, it’s amazing!

Even the original animator from B&K was very impressed
 

Bobert

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The only weird thing is no dragon Kazooie. He has the most unique stage of the 3 and nearly all of his songs are remixes done by Grant Kirkhope himself. I think you were just expecting way to much. It's great that he isn't extremely gimmicky like Joker and Hero as well.
 
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KatKit

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I must admit, no Washing Machine Banjo was a missed opportunity.

But seriously, they got plenty of love.
 

dahuterschuter

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Banjo's a Western character Sakurai nor his team cared much about. The different in enthusiasm in the presentations is fairly obvious.

The character himself feels very nicely adapted though, happy that even if he's not something they were hyped about like their anime swordsmen that they at least gave him soul.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Banjo has one of the best costumes in the green and purple one in the entire game
 

StormC

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The only weird thing is no dragon Kazooie. He has the most unique stage of the 3 and nearly all of his songs are remixes done by Grant Kirkhope himself. I think you were just expecting way to much. It's great that he isn't extremely gimmicky like Joker and Hero as well.
The only remix Kirkhope did was Spiral Mountain. The rest was the Smash team. But yeah. Banjo has by far the most remixes of any DLC character.

Speaking of... we got a Treasure Trove Cove remix by Yoko Shimomura. If that isn't love, I don't know what is. Their moveset is perfect and their stage is filled with classic character cameos. Yeah, the music list isn't perfect, and a Grunty battle would have been great (we don't even know if they had the time and resources for that), but to say they didn't get any love is ridiculous. Even if Sakurai isn't a hardcore Banjo fan, it's clear they put in a ton of fanservice for the most requested character.

Get some perspective. It's a miracle they're in the game at all.
 
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KyotoSSB

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Whenever I started playing Banjo the first thing I said was 'wow, a lot of love went into this character'. Their model is just so animated, very true to the original game. Honestly made me feel nostalgic just playing them. And their stage was so well-designed, so much attention to detail. I think they worked really hard on them tbh. Worth the wait.
 

Brothanigus

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This post was warned for double posting.
Banjo got 7 remixes made by the original composer of the first game, a stage that actually rotates while you're playing, with constant attention to the background you'll probably never notice, Wonder Wing is an amazing move that beats out Warlock Punch, KO Punch, Magic Burst and Thwack, and on top of that is a recovery mix-up, not to mention the tiny little things, and the fact that so much effort was put into retaining the character's original characteristics in tact. I say Banjo got treated very well.
Who cares if the music was made by Grant. Joker and Hero got far more remixes. A a rotating state is nothing when you look at the effort that went into Joker's. ANd wonder wing is really bad when you realize how easy it is to be grabbed out of or punished. ANd it being recovery is moot.

And how is B&K being retained to their original characteristics and good thing?? How? That's expected.

He was given less than pack 1 & 2. He's the only dlc so far that doesn't have an alt. HIs into and win screen are literally copy+pasted.

Banjo has by far the most remixes of any DLC character.
No he doesn't. Joker and Hero have more tracks.
 

Dinoman96

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No he doesn't. Joker and Hero have more tracks.
What the **** are you even talking about

Persona has 11 tracks and only three of them are remixes. Dragon Quest has 8 tracks and none of them are remixes. Banjo has 10 tracks and 7 of them are remixes.

It's pretty clear Banjo made out like a bandit here in comparison to the other series thus far. Persona has like, one more track than Banjo, big whoop.
 
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StormC

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No he doesn't. Joker and Hero have more tracks.
1. I said remixes. Banjo has 7 remixes, Joker has 3, Hero has 0.

2. That isn't even correct. Hero has 8 songs, Banjo has 10, Joker has 11.

At least check the facts before making your whine thread.
 

TennisBall

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The only remix Kirkhope did was Spiral Mountain. The rest was the Smash team. But yeah. Banjo has by far the most remixes of any DLC character.

Speaking of... we got a Treasure Trove Cove remix by Yoko Shimomura. If that isn't love, I don't know what is. Their moveset is perfect and their stage is filled with classic character cameos. Yeah, the music list isn't perfect, and a Grunty battle would have been great (we don't even know if they had the time and resources for that), but to say they didn't get any love is ridiculous. Even if Sakurai isn't a hardcore Banjo fan, it's clear they put in a ton of fanservice for the most requested character.

Get some perspective. It's a miracle they're in the game at all.
Oh. thanks for correcting me.
Who cares if the music was made by Grant. Joker and Hero got far more remixes. A a rotating state is nothing when you look at the effort that went into Joker's. ANd wonder wing is really bad when you realize how easy it is to be grabbed out of or punished. ANd it being recovery is moot.

And how is B&K being retained to their original characteristics and good thing?? How? That's expected.

He was given less than pack 1 & 2. He's the only dlc so far that doesn't have an alt. HIs into and win screen are literally copy+pasted.
Joker's stage got mega shafted compared to Banjo, it changes color and has some buses or whatever they are, and Joker gets a victory screen based off of it, and Hero's is just Halbred that gets platform mix-ups., even if it's really cool.
I don't want to get into Wonderwing as this is not a competitive thread, but I will say is that it's not a Falcon Kick move, it's a move you can use to mix up Banjo's exploitable recovery, cover tech rolls and read, and bust though projectiles.
How is B&K being retained to their characteristics a good thing. Just because it's to be expected does not mean it's bad.
I didn't address this earlier, but in terms of his release being meh? Joker's release was pumped by Persona fans, but not a whole lot of people played Person, and some of the community never even heard of it. The average Smash fan didn't know what a Hero was, and was even annoyed at the start because that was a DLC spot.(That was me I apologize, Hero's super fun.)
Banjo has been requested since Brawl, was released on the same day during a hype-ass Nintendo Direct, and was released alongside a Sans Mii costume which was used almost as much as Banjo. I think Banjo got it nice.
 

Mic_128

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A a rotating state is nothing when you look at the effort that went into Joker's.
Um, really? I mean, don't get me wrong, the stage is fun and there's some neat touches like the bus with random characters from the game, but it's nothing really special. Platforms/walls appear occasionally and a train can come by as a hazard. As a bonus the primary colour is swapped. But overall, the stage is effectively just 2D and very basic in terms of colours. Fitting the game, sure, but not overly complex.

The Banjo stage is an entire 3D map that rotates along the Z-Axis - a first for Smash. The stage is massive, and is an absolutely gorgeous recreation of the first area of the game in great detail with a whole bunch of little nods to the series in the backgrounds. It would have taken *ages* to make all that from scratch.
 

PSIGuy

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He was given less than pack 1 & 2.
Pack 1: 13 spirits, but they're all reused art. 10 tracks with 3 remixes.
Pack 2: 9 spirits which are all reused art. 8 tracks, no remixes.
Pack 3: 8 spirits, 6 of which are new renders. 10 tracks, 7 of which are remixes.
Maybe Banjo Kazooie got less stuff because more of their stuff was made from scratch? It's not just an issue of more-or-less content. Sakurai said that unmixed BK tracks wouldn't work to fight to, which is reflected by the amount of remixes they got. It's likely the same was true of Spirits.
 

StormC

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Um, really? I mean, don't get me wrong, the stage is fun and there's some neat touches like the bus with random characters from the game, but it's nothing really special. Platforms/walls appear occasionally and a train can come by as a hazard. As a bonus the primary colour is swapped. But overall, the stage is effectively just 2D and very basic in terms of colours. Fitting the game, sure, but not overly complex.

The Banjo stage is an entire 3D map that rotates along the Z-Axis - a first for Smash. The stage is massive, and is an absolutely gorgeous recreation of the first area of the game in great detail with a whole bunch of little nods to the series in the backgrounds. It would have taken *ages* to make all that from scratch.
Exactly.

Spiral Mountain is one of the most impressive stages in Smash history in terms of how much work it would take to make, the fact that it's done with the smaller DLC team is mindblowing. Not just that they created a fully rotatable map, but all of the character cameos included in it.

Banjo fans got treated like royalty.
 

Strong Badam

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I am extremely satisfied with how Banjo & Kazooie turned out. Most Banjo fans are super happy with it. Spiral Mountain is a dope stage and I love that we got certain tracks like vs. Mr Patch fight. I'd have loved to get Final Battle and vs. Weldar, but I'm pretty pleased overall.
Hero got 4 alt costumes because there are so many protagonists. We could have gotten Dragon Kazooie, but then what would Banjo be in that case? It'd be pretty confusing if they just left him the same and two players used them. I'm pretty pleased with the actual colors Banjo has; 3rd party characters sometimes get really ****ty alternate colors because of the IP license holder requirements (LOLOLOL @ Sonic and Pac-Man colors). Banjo on the other hand has sick alts based on Boggy, Hailfire Peaks, Grunty, etc..
 
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S_B

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Extremely happy with how they turned out.

The sound design is especially on point: they sound EXACTLY like they did in the original games, which is not something you can say about every character as Duck Hunt is missing the trademark laugh and sounds like Muttley laughing instead.
 

Neosonic97

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I don't want to get into Wonderwing as this is not a competitive thread, but I will say is that it's not a Falcon Kick move, it's a move you can use to mix up Banjo's exploitable recovery, cover tech rolls and read, and bust though projectiles.
It also almost completely dumpsters Hero while Banjo has Wonderwing charges left, so there's that (Wonderwing invalidates every single option Hero's Menu can throw at him except Kaclang, which... yeah. Not even Magic Burst and Kamikazee do anything). In fact, I've actually killed a Hero as Banjo by using Wonderwing to charge straight through Magic Burst, leaving Hero offstage with no MP to recover.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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Personally I'm very happy with how they turned out.

If I had even the slightest niggle....it would be that it would have been great to have a full remix of the Grunty's Lair theme, but we got a piece of it in the Gobi Desert remix at least.
 
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Blackwolf666

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the only thing from Banjo that I am iffy about is the having to die to recharge wonderwing. Don't get me wrong I like that it stops people from spamming the move the entire match but in a game where 74+ fighters don't have limits like that it just doesn't feel fair to the character. If there was atleast one secondary way to refill the feathers like getting 1 feather for taking a stock from you opponent or side b (when you run out of feathers) does something that has a slim chance of spawning a feather. Then again maybe I'm just looking at it on a surface level and only having 5 feathers is not a big deal...
 

ze9

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What am I even reading... Mementos is a very simple stage in front of a 2d background. Yeah, it changes color. Big whoop.
Spiral Mountain meanwhile is a 3d HD re-creation of a whole N64 stage which rotates and is absolutely full of details and animations. I really don't know what you're on about.
 

Reila

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Joker has the fun victory screen theme gimmick, being different based on the song playing in the Mementos stage (it plays either the after-battle theme from Persona 3, 4 or 5). That is all. Different costumes is nothing new, and honestly his kit is a pretty terrible representation of the Persona series. Being the holder of the Fool arcana, he could have been able to summon multiple different Personas instead of having only Arsene. So I don't think using Joker as a comparison is really fair.

I will admit I find Banjo and Kazooie's alts to be awful, aside from the Gruntilda one, but their kit is amazingly fun, their taunts are funny, their victories screens are full of personality. What is more to ask? Spiral Mountain is a great looking stage, too. Poor music representation is a trend among most DLC fighters, unfortunately. Banjo and Kazooie still have more music than poor Cloud.
 

PSIGuy

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BK's alts are definitely questionable. The BT alt colors seemed like a no brainer but instead we get esoteric references to other cast members that aren't immediately obvious. Is Black Banjo meant to be Congo or Bottles? Pink is Mumbo, but is purple-shorts Banjo meant to be Tooty?
 

Buzzwole

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Banjo & Kazooie were handled pretty perfectly in Smash, but yeah there are a few small things I don't like. These are all minor gripes though.


First off, they definitely deserved an alt costume like Joker and Hero got.
Dragon Kazooie, or even the tuxedo from Nuts & Bolts would have been great. Their alts in general are pretty ugly honestly. The only ones I like are Blue Banjo and Grunty Banjo.


Second, I really, REALLY think their forward air should have been ratatat rap instead of making it their back air. That is such an iconic attack and it feels like they put it in the wrong move slot.


The lack of Mii costumes sucks majorly. I was really expecting at LEAST a mumbo swordfighter.


Spirits were a little underwhelming compared to Persona 5's. I would have liked to see more characters.


Finally, what we got for music was great, but I would have liked to see a little more variety. Tooie and Nuts & Bolts had great music that gets pretty much ignored. Also, Lord Woo Fak Fak's battle theme? Really??


I don't mean to complain though. None of this stuff is really a big deal.
 
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ze9

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Eh, these are the kind of nitpicks that you can do for each and every series represented in Smash, bar probably Ice Climber.
At the end of the day, they have to do a selection about what content gets in and what doesn't and about how a character plays and which moves goes where. All in all, I think they have done an excellent job on Banjo. As a fan, to say that I'm extremely pleased would be an understatement. My only complaint would have been no Gruntilda's Lair (the other songs are a matter of taste, Grunty's Lair HAS to be in), but then it showed up in full in Gobi's Valley, so...

They also did an excellent job on Hero and Joker and on their stages, of course (and I'm sure this will be the case for Terry, too). They all manage to feel like meaningful additions to the game, and after 80 characters and 100 stages that's already a good result I think.
 

Gekkouga

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This is a reach.

Banjo and Kazooie are Rare/Microsoft owned characters. and everybody knows that. As such, we could have gotten 2 tracks, no spirits, no interesting alt colors, nothing - much like Cloud. Banjo and Kazooie are properties of a main competitor, and deep down in my soul I feared we'd get the Cloud treatment. Even when Cloud isn't property of Sony or Microsoft to begin with!

But we got some really good palette options, 10 stellar tracks, 7 of which are remixes, more than any other DLC character and most other newcomers from SSB4/Ult! Exclusive new renders for the spirit board, a really good and detailed stage, as well as a perfectly fun and true-to-character moveset.

Yes, we could've gotten more. But I appreciate the content we have now in every aspect. Especially music-wise:

BK has 10 tracks, 7 remixes/3 original
DQ has 8 tracks, all original
Persona has 11 tracks, 3 remixes/8 original
Bayonetta has 11 tracks, 2 remixes/9 original
FF has 2 tracks, all original
Namco/Pacman has 11 tracks, 6 remixes/5 original
Metal Gear has 11 tracks, 5 remixes/6 original
Xenoblade has 11 tracks, 1 remix/10 original


See? Banjo and Kazooie fall in line with most other newcomers and DLC characters. The only exceptions are Splatoon, Street Fighter and Castlevania, which were base roster characters to begin with. Banjo got way more remixes, which implies more dedicated work from the team. I know they said it was because of the country feel of the original OST but heck they could've slapped some Nuts and Bolts tracks and call it a day.- if they were that "forced" to include B-K.

tl;dr stop reaching. we got amazing content and the most love the character has gotten in almost 20 years.
 
D

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DQ fan here who frequents Discord.

Discord loved Banjo way, way more than Hero as much as it saddens me.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Ah, I see you've managed to find something to complain about Sakurai related even in finally getting Banjo & Kazooie...

Honestly, Banjo & Kazooie have the best representation of the three characters we've seen so far. My only complaint would be no Dragon-Kazooie alt, but otherwise, yeah, they're a love letter to the classic Banjo-Kazooie games. Their animations seem absolutely fined tuned to perfection. Little things like Banjo running on the World of Light overworld, their swimming animation, and others are perfectly recreated in the game. Spiral Mountain is a full 3D environment that Sakurai literally created from scratch and ranks among the most beautiful and boldest stages in all of Ultimate. And while, yes, we didn't get any Mii costumes, it seems like they really put all the budget towards remixes, which I much prefer. The music is absolutely amazing and they've done their work in updating the music in meaningful and cool ways, getting the most remixes of any DLC character ever.

You might be able to nitpick a couple of things, but to argue they didn't get any love is absolutely ridiculous and factually incorrect.
 

Wigglerman

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Second, I really, REALLY think their forward air should have been ratatat rap instead of making it their back air. That is such an iconic attack and it feels like they put it in the wrong move slot.
I felt that way too but with Kazooie in the back pack it'd be REAAAAAALY awkward to try to make them shift position so she'd be hitting from the front when she's in the bag on his back, you know? It's less forgiving than someone like Ridley where he can coil his tail around to the front to do the poking. If they did it the way we, as Smashers, would prefer, it'd likely end up in a weird move that changes your facing afterwards like how Jigg's back air now forces her to face the other way afterwards which could be jarring.
 
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Eagle

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I felt that way too but with Kazooie in the back pack it'd be REAAAAAALY awkward to try to make them shift position so she'd be hitting from the front when she's in the bag on his back, you know? It's less forgiving than someone like Ridley where he can coil his tail around to the front to do the poking. If they did it the way we, as Smashers, would prefer, it'd likely end up in a weird move that changes your facing afterwards like how Jigg's back air now forces her to face the other way afterwards which could be jarring.
I don't think so. Banjo would be bending forward so that his back is parallel to the ground. That puts Kazooie in the perfect position to hit the front.
 

WiiRool

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Do people dislike the music selection? Because I find it is near perfect.
 

Buzzwole

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Do people dislike the music selection? Because I find it is near perfect.
I think the music selection is near perfect.

I would have traded maybe one of the BK remixes for a BT remix just for the sake of variety.
I also would have swapped out the Woo Fak Fak boss theme for the Test-O-Track theme from N&B. That or the final Grunty battle theme also from N&B.
 
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StormC

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Do people dislike the music selection? Because I find it is near perfect.
I think the lack of a Grunty battle theme is the only sticking point. Otherwise people seem happy. (I know I marked out in the Direct when they began playing a TTC remix).
 
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