Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[EpicElliot]

108 stages I KNEW THERE WAS MORE THEN 103 ! BANJO HYPE !

if that Gamestop Banjo Plush leak is real October might be Banjo Time !!! :D GOD I PRAY HE MAKES IT INTO BASE GAME !

I could see spiral mountain being the main stage with grunty flying buy like kamek changing the stage into different leavels from B-K

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Happy 3,000 posts Banjo-Roos we officially have the strength of 100 armies of Spartans

 

[AugustusB]

Woke up to see Corocoro lives!

On the subject of stages, Spiral Mountain is to iconic to not be Banjo's Stage.

The hype lives on!

 

[ryuu seika]

A traveling stage would probably be too much work and I don't see them putting that much effort for Banjo-Kazooie outside the characters themselves, My idea is Spiral Mountain stage fighting on the bridge then after a while so it doesn't get plain and boring, it picks up and the stage takes us to the top of Grunty's Tower where the Final Boss fight takes place and Grunty is the stage hazard/boss, How about the main track plays the Spiral Mountain theme then tranistions into the Final Boss theme (Kind of like Gangplank Galleon from DKC) when the stage moves to the top of the tower and then after a while it resets back to Spiral Mountain again.

Transitional moving stages are bad design. We should not wish them upon Banjo Kazooie.

My stage of choice, as demonstrated in that stage design contest, would be a single stationary one that encompassed both sides of Hailfire Peaks. The most iconic and memorable level gimmick in the entire series, IMO. That is, however, pretty unrealistic.

What we will actually get is Spiral Mountain. Without any doubt.

To me, that's a real shame. Spiral Mountain doesn't have any particularly unique theming, it doesn't have a unique layout and the most common suggestion to make it interesting (a stage boss) would render it obnoxious to play on.

No, the only thing that could save the stage would be to incorporate that spiral in some way. To really mimic the climb. To build the same sense of anticipation for its summit that we all felt as kids. To really grasp that sense of adventure and roll with it.

What I suggest, then, is a scrolling stage. One which takes place entirely on the mountain itself, scaled up to fill the width of the screen. One which pans to the right, slowly, constantly rotating around the mountain. One that is always on a slant and always pushing players gently to the left. Or at least, until the summit is finally reached, it is.

The top of the mountain would be flat and still, with the bridge heading off into the background so as to give the perfect view of Grunty's lair.

This flat summit would expand sideways ever so slowly as the camera zoomed in, giving the impression of approaching the bridge. However, when the fighters finally get there after about half a minute, so too does Grunty.

She's spotted them and doesn't want her home invaded again. With a wave of her wand and a wacky incantation, she magically transports everyone to the bottom of the mountain oncemore and then flies off as the stage begins anew.

And that, my friends, is how you make a Spiral Mountain stage!

Thanks to GolisoPower for the inspiration.

 

[The Legendary Beast]

Add me to the support list. The bear and bird returning to a Nintendo console game just feels right.

 

[JonSmash]

yeah spiral mountan is boring !

HAY! why not battle on that train from tooie ? it can go throug diffrent levels !

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

yeah spiral mountan is boring !

HAY! why not battle on that train from tooie ? it can go throug diffrent levels !

It doesn't matter if it's boring, It's central and core to the Banjo-Kazooie franchise, That's why every game in the series has you start there, A lot of big video game franchises in Smash have a main stage that is iconic or identifies the series, Mario has World 1-1, Donkey Kong has Jungle Hijinx/Kongo Jungle, Kirby has Dreamland, Star Fox has Corneria, Sonic has Green Hill Zone, and so on. Each 3rd Party Character gets at least 1 stage that represents their franchise as a whole and Spiral Mountain is without question the most logical choice, not to mention It's the only world in the franchise that Banjo and Kazooie constantly return to each game.

 

[EpicElliot]

I still think banjo land would be a good stage as its a banjo kazooie museum & that would be perfect for banjo's 20th anniversary IMO

grunty can give a tour asking questions with 3 answers & you pick a taunt to give the right answers that way we can have 20 years worth of banjo triva in a stage & it can be a traveling stage similar to the sunshine stage

 

[TheAnvil]

If Banjo is in, the stage would probably be Spiral Mountain, but could also be Grunty's Lair or Grunty's Tower. Anything aside from that is unlikely.

 

[ryuu seika]

yeah spiral mountan is boring !
HAY! why not battle on that train from tooie ? it can go throug diffrent levels !

While that would be better than a transitional stage, I feel like it would take a lot of work to make it feel unique when Spirit Tracks does the whole fighting on a train as it moves through the world thing already.

It doesn't matter if it's boring, It's central and core to the Banjo-Kazooie franchise, That's why every game in the series has you start there, A lot of big video game franchises in Smash have a main stage that is iconic or identifies the series, Mario has World 1-1, Donkey Kong has Jungle Hijinx/Kongo Jungle, Kirby has Dreamland, Star Fox has Corneria, Sonic has Green Hill Zone, and so on. Each 3rd Party Character gets at least 1 stage that represents their franchise as a whole and Spiral Mountain is without question the most logical choice, not to mention It's the only world in the franchise that Banjo and Kazooie constantly return to each game.

You outline exactly why I expect Spiral Mountain over all else but your opening statement is wrong. It does matter if the stage is boring because Banjo and Kazooie, as characters, are so lively.

A generic stage would misrepresent them far more than it does any of those other characters and, quite frankly, I don't think their stages misrepresent them at all. Mario WAS a generic sidescroller. Kirby is bright, colourful and simple, Starfox is about travelling via spaceship and Sonic's got his iconic checkered aesthetic and checkpoints. I don't know which DK stage you're referring to but all of them besides the multilayered one also have a very distinctive aesthetic and water's edge locale. Every time I see a DK game, I see them in it.

What sets BK apart, though, is its zaniness and sense of adventure. Something which Spiral Mountain doesn't inherently represent in any way. Hence my previous suggestion.

 

[ProjectDream]

So, like I assumed we'd get more stages, lo and behold we're getting more stages.

Empty spaces on the level select screen was always an indicator, and i'm glad the corocoro magazine has debunked that ridiculous box art theory.

One can assume nearly all 5 stages are possibly new entries, and I'm gonna put my chips down on Minecraft being one of them as a stage, considering Vergeben has gotten Isabelle correct, and is now claiming Incineroar.

We're gonna get a minecraft stage + an AT/Item i'm guessing. Which opens the door for Banjo in a massive way (if they're not in the base game already that is).

 

[CosmicQuark]

DID YOU SEE THE WORK THEY PUT INTO CASTELVANIA ??? Banjo would get the same treatment if he is in base game

I doubt Banjo-Kazooie would get that big of a treatment, Likely one stage and a few to several tracks, just look at Sonic, Snake and Megaman, their bigger icons and even they don't have it that good. Not to mention Sakurai said a most of his staff are big Castlevania fans, that's why they went all out.

I think Banjo & Kazooie could get a similar treatment to Simon. Opens the Direct, reveals Banjo & Kazooie as a character, goes over the stage, Gruntilda boss and the assist trophy (Mumbo?), and maybe showcase some of the music (wouldn't be as much as Castlevania, but even if you include all the songs from Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie, you don't even reach that number, I don't think). I feel like Banjo & Kazooie are the only big characters left that could get that type of treatment given it's wealth of content from those two games alone. That being said, I remain cautious when seeing these patterns as we only have a sample size of one Smash Direct so far.

 

[JonSmash]

I hope we don't get just incineroar but instead get Alola Pokemon trainer with Incineroar & rowlet ! & that 2nd form blue thing

 

[ryuu seika]

Personally, I'm all "Honedge or nothing!" when it comes to Pokemon newcomers but that might just be the Rare-inspired love of inanimate objects with eyes talking.

 

[TheAnvil]

So, like I assumed we'd get more stages, lo and behold we're getting more stages.

Empty spaces on the level select screen was always an indicator, and i'm glad the corocoro magazine has debunked that ridiculous box art theory.

One can assume nearly all 5 stages are possibly new entries, and I'm gonna put my chips down on Minecraft being one of them as a stage, considering Vergeben has gotten Isabelle correct, and is now claiming Incineroar.

We're gonna get a minecraft stage + an AT/Item i'm guessing. Which opens the door for Banjo in a massive way (if they're not in the base game already that is).

The box theory is very much alive whether there are 103 or 108 stages.

 

[ProjectDream]

The box theory is very much alive whether there are 103 or 108 stages.

I'm not believing theres a mere 2 more characters at all.

 

[Juliusaurus]

This whole box theory thing is getting to me, gotta say. Not a bad thing, I suppose, Banjo-Kazooie still could easily be the final character revealed (though Vergeben throws a wrench into that, but I'd like to believe they'd end with a big reveal rather than a gen 7 Pokemon... but who's to say, really). And if it ends up being the case and Banjo-Kazooie has to be DLC, I'd be so okay with that too.

 

[TheMasterDS]

I think Box Theory is incorrect. If the marketing team knew which characters were in the game they could've put Isabelle on the mockup. They didn't because they don't know. Also we're pretty far out- could be they're trying to finish as many echoes as possible and will finalize the At Release line up once November hits.

My guess for the stages is we'll be seeing some from new IPs with characters - Banjo, Isaac, Rhythm Heaven perhaps - and some stages for IPs without characters - Minecraft and Something Else. I saw someone somewhere say it'd be cool if The Desk from the opening of SSB64 got in as a stage. I agree, that'd be cool. Something surprising like that would make sense for the last of those 5.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

While that would be better than a transitional stage, I feel like it would take a lot of work to make it feel unique when Spirit Tracks does the whole fighting on a train as it moves through the world thing already.



You outline exactly why I expect Spiral Mountain over all else but your opening statement is wrong. It does matter if the stage is boring because Banjo and Kazooie, as characters, are so lively.

A generic stage would misrepresent them far more than it does any of those other characters and, quite frankly, I don't think their stages misrepresent them at all. Mario WAS a generic sidescroller. Kirby is bright, colourful and simple, Starfox is about travelling via spaceship and Sonic's got his iconic checkered aesthetic and checkpoints. I don't know which DK stage you're referring to but all of them besides the multilayered one also have a very distinctive aesthetic and water's edge locale. Every time I see a DK game, I see them in it.

What sets BK apart, though, is its zaniness and sense of adventure. Something which Spiral Mountain doesn't inherently represent in any way. Hence my previous suggestion.

I think you took it the wrong way when I said boring, On paper some might say Spiral Mountain sounds boring because the perception is that nothing really happens there, But I'm sure Sakurai and his team can do something to spice it up and make it wackier and fun, But at the end without a doubt Banjo-Kazooie's stage is going to be some variation of Spiral Mountain.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I've said my peace on box theory--it makes absolutely no sense for that to be the final artwork given how sloppy the design is.

Because they did have many options for how to display the roster (which everyone agrees was not made for the box). This is the logical way to do it:

Instead of putting them in batches of six, to fit the box, they put them in batches of nine, which means there are jumps in characters going out of numbered order (on the box itself, not in the arbitrary pattern). Zelda comes after Sheik in numbered order, not Roy. Likewise, Palutena comes after Mii Fighters, not Corrin. It means, if I'm looking on the box, Roy is right after Sheik, which is out of order. I know the "pattern", but it doesn't make sense to put it that way on the box itself, this is. This tells me this is a placeholder image, not the final way the characters will be displayed. As such, it doesn't imply what characters are in, what characters aren't, the total number, etc. It's a placeholder. Subject to change.

I get that it's difficult to keep track of everything, as I'm having trouble myself. But I think my point is simple--if they're in ordered number on the box, it should be displayed as such, not inferred from some arbitrary "pattern" the designers of the box chose.

EDIT:

So you can see the subtle, but head-scratching, difference:

That being said, even if it is the finalized artwork, it could be only the ones revealed before the design is finalized before shipment, and some characters just aren't on the box. Or, box theory is completely true, and character speculation is dead until DLC. It boggles my mind it's considered fact by so many people. I'm not saying it *can't* be the final design--just that it's a stupidly put together design if it is.

As for Banjo & Kazooie, I think they have a strong chance if Verge is right about Minecraft content, and Isabelle is another point for Verge. It would be strange if Nintendo talked to Microsoft about Minecraft in Smash, but did not negotiate a character--unless Minecraft was a last minute addition. I'm also concerned, as it seems like Verge knew about most of the unique newcomers, outside of King K Rool, and so it's weird we've heard nothing regarding B&K, as Microsoft, like most third parties, could be quite the leaky faucet. But everything for B&K as well as Minecraft line up in 2015. Definitely not locks, perhaps even still very unlikely they're in the base game, but to me is more solid reasoning than a placeholder box.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The same people who subscribe to the box theory were the same people who thought 103 stages and no more, and they just got disproved in that regards. So yeah, the box theory is the product of pessimists

 

[thirsty-pocket]

I seriously think box theory discussion should stay in it's own thread on general discussion until some actual news comes out do either prove or debunk it, because every time it's brought up it only seems to do is make the hard headed butt heads, and no real discussion about the intended topic of the thread happens anymore. Seriously, the box theory is the dominant topic in like seven or eight threads now.

I just put my official stance on it in my sig so I can stop bringing it up and not get involved in any mud slinging.

 

[volbound1700]

I really think Banjo-Kazooie will get into ultimate, however, I think the chances are 80% as DLC and only 20% as base.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I seriously think box theory discussion should stay in it's own thread on general discussion until some actual news comes out do either prove or debunk it, because every time it's brought up it only seems to do is make the hard headed butt heads, and no real discussion about the intended topic of the thread happens anymore. Seriously, the box theory is the dominant topic in like seven or eight threads now.

I just put my official stance on it in my sig so I can stop bringing it up and not get involved in any mud slinging.

I would gladly not talk about box theory (as I think it's clearly BS), but it's kinda hard not to when that's the only... thing... I see... when I come on here. But people are free to post whatever they like, which is why I transitioned in B&K. I'm done with the topic until something legitimate pops up.

Transitioning back to B&K again--this caught my eye on Twitter. I wasn't around during Melee speculation as I was 10, and my parents never got me a Gamecube. But had I, I would have been confused by the glaring omission of Banjo & Kazooie. But their popularity around that time has always been theoretical to me, as I wasn't there. Pit and B&K were missing from Melee--we have Pit now, so there's one more character for Smash missing!

EDIT:

I really think Banjo-Kazooie will get into ultimate, however, I think the changes are 80% as DLC and only 20% as base.

While it's certainly possible for Banjo & Kazooie to be DLC, I feel like if they're going to be in Smash at all, base game is more likely than DLC. Everything lines up when the roster was being made in 2015--nothing prominent occurred since that would make me think their chances were more likely for DLC. The only argument I've heard is that Micro$oft likes money. a) Yes, but they've been in desperate need for good PR since 2012, so I consider them less of a problem b) that would apply to any company that likes money, like Square Enix c) if DLC netted companies more money than being in the base game (a claim I've yet to see evidence of), then every company would want to save their character for DLC.

 

[volbound1700]

I am in a tough spot because I want Tails, Rayman, Banjo-Kazooie and Crash Bandicoot. I am tending to lead on that order as well. I would celebrate if any of the four made it in but I am commenting more in the Tails & Rayman threads as well as voting for them more than the later 2.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Another factor is how much does Nintendo want to promote or push Banjo-Kazooie, While I'm sure they respect the franchise, I feel like it's kind of awkward for them and they would try to shy away from anything Rare related other than Donkey Kong and even that took a while just look how long it took to bring back K.Rool, They would be more comfortable with leaving their association with the IP in the past, That is unless Sakurai has anything to say about it.
I see their chances as 25% in the base 75% DLC, I would prefer base, but getting DLC would be fine too as long as they make the roster.

I can imagine Nintendo's awkward take on their inclusion:

"Hey remember that beloved Bear and Bird franchise we used to own from the N64 era that everyone loved ,but didn't make an effort to keep it along with it's iconic developer and sold it to one of our so called competitors?" They're finally back !!!

 

[thirsty-pocket]

I expect exactly 0% promotion for Banjo Kazooie related material unless it's directly related to a Nintendo product, like Banjo in Smash, Banjo on an N64 classic, or a Switch port of a Banjo Kazooie game. If it's exclusive to XboxOne, or it's merchandise unrelated to Nintendo, I expect them to keep quiet.

Kinda like how there was zero promotion for the Final Fantasy 7 remake on Nintendo's end after Cloud got into Smash. However you can bet there will be a little bit of promotion for the FF7 ports on Switch.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I am in a tough spot because I want Tails, Rayman, Banjo-Kazooie and Crash Bandicoot. I am tending to lead on that order as well. I would celebrate if any of the four made it in but I am commenting more in the Tails & Rayman threads as well as voting for them more than the later 2.

Welcome, nonetheless, whether Banjo & Kazooie is your first choice, third choice, ninth choice--it's always good to see support for the bear and bird. My thoughts are given Banjo & Kazooie's popularity since Melee, they're a very likely choice for a third party character, though Rayman is right up there given Nintendo and Ubisoft's relationship. In fact, Rayman has a much bigger chance, since he was a trophy in 4. Crash is my second pick after B&K, and I think he would be a likely DLC contender, especially since his spike in popularity since the announcement of the N Sane Trilogy. And I love Tails and would love to see him in. All in my most wanted characters

Another factor is how much does Nintendo want to promote or push Banjo-Kazooie, While I'm sure they respect the franchise, I feel like it's kind of awkward for them and they would try to shy away from anything Rare related other than Donkey Kong and would likely leave their association with the IP in the past, That is unless Sakurai has anything to say about it.
I see their chances as 25% in the base 75% DLC, I would prefer base, but getting DLC would be fine too as long as they make the roster.

I can imagine Nintendo's awkward take on their inclusion:

"Hey remember that Bear and Bird franchise we used to own from the N64 era that everyone loved ,but didn't make an effort to keep it along with it's iconic developer and sold it to one of our so called competitors?" They're finally back !!!

Indeed--this is the reason I could see Banjo & Kazooie not being included. Even if Sakurai wanted to, even if Phil Spencer is genuine that Microsoft would work with Nintendo on Banjo & Kazooie in Smash--if Nintendo sees it as promoting a character from a rival's exclusive IP, they may not even want to discuss it. Whereas Minecraft is at least on Nintendo consoles. My hope--is that they can make a deal where Microsoft gets promotion of Banjo & Kazooie in Smash, and Nintendo gets Rare titles on a N64 mini, which would certainly boost people's interests. Anecdotally, why should I get a N64 mini if I can already play those games on my Wii U? Like Star Fox 2 being an appeal of the SNES mini, Rare titles back on a Nintendo platform for the first time in decades would be huge. But the pessimist in me wants to say it'll never happen. Here's hoping it does!

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

In relation to Banjo being awkward for Nintendo to promote, imo it''s no different than Cloud.. FF7 was supposed to be Squares big game for Nintendo and because they refused to switch over to a disc based format Square took their franchise to the Playstation and it strained the relations between the two for a long time..that stuff's in the past. I doubt Nintendo would care about them being the original owners of Banjo.

 

[TheMasterDS]

A lot of people will be shocked when Banjo-Kazooie is revealed. To get them in Smash is a bigger feat than any Sakurai has ever pulled. Bigger than Sonic. Bigger than Ryu. Bigger than Cloud even. That’s part of why they’re such a great late reveal.

While a lot stands in their way, don’t forget everything they have in their favor. Ballot results. Sakurai’s consideration of them for Melee. Phil Spencer being on board. The importance of Banjo to the N64 era. Sheer shock value.

While there’s more holding them back than any other realistic newcomer, they also have more working for them than any other realistic newcomer.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

In relation to Banjo being awkward for Nintendo to promote, imo it''s no different than Cloud.. FF7 was supposed to be Squares big game for Nintendo and because they refused to switch over to a disc based format Square took their franchise to the Playstation and it strained the relations between the two for a long time..that stuff's in the past. I doubt Nintendo would care about them being the original owners of Banjo.

While it's a good point, but the main difference is Banjo-Kazooie used to be owned by Nintendo and is now owned by Microsoft a console competitor, everytime people bring up cloud and his association with Playstation, A lot of times people seem to forget that Square Enix is and was always a 3rd Party company at the end of the day and Final Fantasy was always a 3rd Party franchise and still appeared in all consoles, If Final Fantasy was getting any representation it was Cloud because he's the most popular and his main game just so happened to have been only on Playstation, And correct me if I'm wrong because I don't play or care and don't know jack about Final Fantasy , but what exactly was stopping Square Enix from rereleasing it on other consoles ? Unless they signed a deal with Sony at the time or if they helped publish it, I mean it's finally getting rereleased on Switch, So it was in a way pretty much a time exclusive for all these years until they decided to put it on other platforms by choice not by contract.

 

[volbound1700]

While it's a good point, but the main difference is Banjo-Kazooie used to be owned by Nintendo and is now owned by Microsoft a console competitor, everytime people bring up cloud and his association with Playstation, A lot of times people seem to forget that Square Enix is and was always a 3rd Party company at the end of the day and Final Fantasy was always a 3rd Party franchise and still appeared in all consoles, If Final Fantasy was getting any representation it was Cloud because he's the most popular and his main game just so happened to have been only on Playstation, And correct me if I'm wrong because I don't play or care and don't know jack about Final Fantasy , but what exactly was stopping Square Enix from rereleasing it on other consoles ? Unless they signed a deal with Sony at the time or if they helped publish it, I mean it's finally getting rereleased on Switch, So it was in a way pretty much a time exclusive for all these years until they decided to put it on other platforms by choice not by contract.

There have been some FF on the 3DS. I believe Cloud appeared in one of them. Agree that Microsoft is a rival company with rival console. However, you never know. Smash tends to be a great chance to promote characters.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

While it's a good point, but the main difference is Banjo-Kazooie used to be owned by Nintendo and is now owned by Microsoft a console competitor, everytime people bring up cloud and his association with Playstation, A lot of times people seem to forget that Square Enix is and was always a 3rd Party company at the end of the day and Final Fantasy was always a 3rd Party franchise and still appeared in all consoles, If Final Fantasy was getting any representation it was Cloud because he's the most popular and his main game just so happened to have been only on Playstation, And correct me if I'm wrong because I don't play or care and don't know jack about Final Fantasy , but what exactly was stopping Square Enix from rereleasing it on other consoles ? Unless they signed a deal with Sony at the time or if they helped publish it, I mean it's finally getting rereleased on Switch, So it was in a way pretty much a time exclusive for all these years until they decided to put it on other platforms by choice not by contract.

At the time N64 didn't have the space on a cartridge to hold FF7, why it didn't go to Dreamcast I'm not sure.. maybe it was dead already when they thought about it.


Don't forget that Rare was a second party Dev to Nintendo. The reason they got bought out was because Nintendo didnt purchase them outright and make them a 1st party. So they never really owned Banjo, they had exclusivity to him but he was never "theirs". Granted it's still a different situation to Cloud but the Rare Nintendo relationship was well over a decade ago and I don't think Nintendo is going to care all that much about what was and will look at Banjo the same as any other 3rd party who used to have a history with them

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

A lot of people will be shocked when Banjo-Kazooie is revealed. To get them in Smash is a bigger feat than any Sakurai has ever pulled. Bigger than Sonic. Bigger than Ryu. Bigger than Cloud even. That’s part of why they’re such a great late reveal.

While a lot stands in their way, don’t forget everything they have in their favor. Ballot results. Sakurai’s consideration of them for Melee. Phil Spencer being on board. The importance of Banjo to the N64 era. Sheer shock value.

While there’s more holding them back than any other realistic newcomer, they also have more working for them than any other realistic newcomer.

Pretty much took the words from my mouth, What adds more fuel to the fire is that unlike any other 3rd party character in Smash, Banjo-Kazooie were actually once 1st/2nd Party owned by Nintendo and their games were originally published by them as well and to see their grand return in the biggest stage of them all that is Super Smash Bros, Makes their homecoming that much more special.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

At the time N64 didn't have the space on a cartridge to hold FF7, why it didn't go to Dreamcast I'm not sure.. maybe it was dead already when they thought about it.


Don't forget that Rare was a second party Dev to Nintendo. The reason they got bought out was because Nintendo didnt purchase them outright and make them a 1st party. So they never really owned Banjo, they had exclusivity to him but he was never "theirs". Granted it's still a different situation to Cloud but the Rare Nintendo relationship was well over a decade ago and I don't think Nintendo is going to care all that much about what was and will look at Banjo the same as any other 3rd party who used to have a history with them

Banjo-Kazooie Copyright ownership is a bit of a gray area during the N64 era, Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie's title screens say:

Copyright 1998 Nintendo/Rare
Copyright 2000 Nintendo/Rare

And they never mention character ownership at the end credits of both games and Diddy Kong Racing box art on the lower left corner says that Nintendo licensed Banjo along with Diddy Kong and Krunch, Likely locking some rights up in anticipation for their debut game the following year in 1998.

Also I wish I can find it, but I remember reading that when Microsoft acquired Rare they had to return the Donkey Kong and Star Fox License back to Nintendo and Then Nintendo in exchange gave back Rare's IP catalogue as part of the deal. Though Banjo-Kazooie was created by Rare and is pretty much their de facto mascot, Nintendo published their games and like most publishers would probably have some rights to a developers creation, I'm sure Nintendo had some co-ownership of the IP, Even though Nintendo owned 49% of Rare and Rare owned 51% of their own stake.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Banjo-Kazooie Copyright ownership is a bit of a gray area during the N64 era, Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie's title screens say:

Copyright 1998 Nintendo/Rare
Copyright 2000 Nintendo/Rare

And they never mention character ownership at the end credits of both games and Diddy Kong Racing box art on the lower left corner says that Nintendo licensed Banjo along with Diddy Kong and Krunch.

Also I wish I can find it, but I remember reading that when Microsoft acquired Rare they had to return the Donkey Kong and Star Fox License back to Nintendo and Then Nintendo in exchange gave back Rare's IP catalogue. Though Banjo-Kazooie was created by Rare and is pretty much their de facto mascot, I think they were at least co-owned by both companies, Even though Nintendo owned 49% and Rare owned 51% of their own stake.

That's my reading of the situation, at least. And I do consider Banjo & Kazooie a mascot character--a mascot of Rare, which was an important part of the history of the N64, and by extension, Nintendo. Many people try to act as Banjo & Kazooie were less significant than they were. While I would concede it's not the way Sakurai or Nintendo or Microsoft/Rare would view it (Banjo coming home where they belong), Banjo & Kazooie's significant popularity for Smash in addition to his content potential makes him an unsung hero of Smash history. Since Rare didn't do anything for their 20th anniversary, outside of an interview which was a disguised way of using Banjo & Kazooie's clout to promote Sea of Thieves, Sakurai could since their tune (to the dulcet tones of Grant Kirkhope's compositions).

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

That's my reading of the situation, at least. And I do consider Banjo & Kazooie a mascot character--a mascot of Rare, which was an important part of the history of the N64, and by extension, Nintendo. Many people try to act as Banjo & Kazooie were less significant than they were. While I would concede it's not the way Sakurai or Nintendo or Microsoft/Rare would view it (Banjo coming home where they belong), Banjo & Kazooie's significant popularity for Smash in addition to his content potential makes him an unsung hero of Smash history. Since Rare didn't do anything for their 20th anniversary, outside of an interview which was a disguised way of using Banjo & Kazooie's clout to promote Sea of Thieves, Sakurai could since their tune (to the dulcet tones of Grant Kirkhope's compositions).

I pretty much see Banjo-Kazooie in the same light as Kirby (HAL Laboratory) and maybe even Pokemon (Game Freak/Creatures) though their not pure Nintendo like Mario and Donkey Kong who were created internally in Nintendo, But from developers who have a strong 2nd party association with Nintendo, It's kind of funny because HAL Laboratory and Game Freak are independent developers and are not owned by Nintendo, But Rare was practically half owned by Nintendo, So in a way wouldn't have that made Banjo-Kazooie at one point more Nintendo than Pokemon and Kirby ? Just basing that off how legal rights would probably go and ownership stake, Probably the deals were worked differently.

Side note: Nintendo owns 33% of Pokemon franchise, while Game Freak and Creatures Inc own the other 66%, But Nintendo is the sole owner of the actual Pokemon trademark.

 

[Ol' Boyo]

Been lurking on these boards for a while. I thought I'd throw my first post in with the Banjo crew since he's the only character I REALLY care about at this stage. Banjo-Kazooie was the first video game I ever owned and I have wanted him in smash since 64! Would be so special for me and many others. Fingers crossed they finally bring the duo home.

A few things tho... I feel like saying "Banjo AND Kazooie" is really awkward. I would honestly rather just call them "Banjo-Kazooie"... what do you guys think?

Also, I really like the moveset proposed here. I see far too many without Talon Trot but got dam man! you are Talon Trotting for like half the game, they have to have that move even though I'm not exactly sure how it would be useful in smash.

 

[ryuu seika]

A few things tho... I feel like saying "Banjo AND Kazooie" is really awkward. I would honestly rather just call them "Banjo-Kazooie"... what do you guys think?

Banjo Kazooie is a game name, not a character name. If the announcer says either of those, it should be the one with "and". Personally, though, I would much prefer it if Smash would drop the whole two name scheme entirely.
When you play as "Rosalina and Luma", you don't play as Luma. You play as a Rosalina who puppets it. You play as Rosalina. The puppet isn't the controlled character so they shouldn't be in the name.
We should get either "Banjo" (as in Diddy Kong Racing) or, at a push, "Kazooie Duo".

Also, I really like the moveset proposed here. I see far too many without Talon Trot but got dam man! you are Talon Trotting for like half the game, they have to have that move even though I'm not exactly sure how it would be useful in smash.

It wouldn't be a move, it'd be their dash animation, with Banjo rolling out of it for the dash attack.

 

[TheZoologist]

It wouldn't be a move, it'd be their dash animation, with Banjo rolling out of it for the dash attack.[/QUOTE]

Originally I thought it would be a command you could put in like the Inklings refilling their ink, but yeah, it should be their dash! Just the idea of seeing Kazooie running around with Banjo on her back on the battlefield? Hilarious.