Banjo-Kazooie - Project Dream

MangoTwist

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If that's the case, than what do you all suppose the number order for the characters videos on the Smash Bros. website is than? It's in order from the 64, Melee, Brawl, Smash 4, and Ultimate so what else could those numbers be but the order they were all developed in the series excluding the Echos.
It's not the order of development. We know this because we know Sonic was the reason Brawl was delayed (being the last character added), yet his number comes before Olimar, Lucario, etc.

The numbering is simply the order of reveal
 
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It's not the order of development. We know this because we know Sonic was the reason Brawl was delayed (being the last character added), yet his number comes before Olimar, Lucario, etc.

The numbering is simply the order of reveal
I see. So from 64 to Smash 4 and Ultimate's bases the last reveals were :ness64:, :gawmelee:, :wolf:, :4duckhunt:, and :ultincineroar: if we go by that right?
 
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MangoTwist

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I see. So from 64 to Smash 4 and Ultimate's bases the last reveals were :ness64:, :gawmelee:, :wolf:, :4duckhunt:, and :ultincineroar: if we go by that right?
The first 3 were the "last reveal" in their games in the sense that they required the most matches played to unlock them (could be unlocked earlier through alternate methods, though).

Duck Hunt got both the last trailer for Smash 4, and also required the most matches played (110) to be unlocked. Although he could be unlocked before Bowser Jr. through his alternate unlock method of getting a KO in Cruel Smash, Duck Hunt is still the last reveal for the average player.

Incineroar got the last trailer for Ultimate.
 
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What does this even have to do with anything? Patterns for an anticlimactic final reveal on the main roster is arbitrary; DLC isn't following the same rules as last time, let alone base.
Some guy earlier on the thread was saying :4shulk:was the last reveal for Smash 4's base and I was telling him it was :4duckhunt:even though he was a hidden character.
 
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N3ON

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Some guy earlier on the thread was saying :4shulk:was the last reveal for Smash 4's base and I was telling him it was :4duckhunt:even though he was a hidden character.
Well, yeah, technically DHD was the last character officially revealed, but I have to imagine the context of the conversation was such that they meant Shulk was the final reveal prior to release - when it would still hold much more promotional significance than post-release reveals.

In that way, although it'd be faulty to compare base reveals to DLC reveals, it'd be less faulty to treat Shulk as a comparable final character from a marketing perspective than DHD, as both Shulk's reveal and DLC function to move the product in a much greater capacity than DHD's (or any post-release reveal).
 
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DMTN

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I don't know what decides the reveal order of newcomers, but I'm guessing it has to do with development order. They just show characters that are ready to be shown. People often say that the most requested newcomers should be saved for E3 or the last reveal, but it doesn't work like that. I think it would be best not to look for any logic behind the order and time of reveals.
 

N3ON

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I don't know what decides the reveal order of newcomers, but I'm guessing it has to do with development order. They just show characters that are ready to be shown. People often say that the most requested newcomers should be saved for E3 or the last reveal, but it doesn't work like that. I think it would be best not to look for any logic behind the order and time of reveals.
E3 does always have at least one heavy hitter though.

I don't buy into most theories, but that one I doubt is accidental.
 

Turb0k

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E3 does always have at least one heavy hitter though.

I don't buy into most theories, but that one I doubt is accidental.
Yeah, :ultmegaman:,:ultpacman:,:ultryu:&:ultridley: were all heavily requested characters that all Smash fans can easily recognize. Hell even :ultvillager::ultpalutena::ultdaisy:&:ultmiifighters:, while not as popular were still HIGHLY requested by fans.

What I'm trying to say is that it's go big or go home at E3 and Smash has never been one to disappoint. Whoever the E3 Newcomer is, (if we even get one) It's gonna be huge.
 
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Yeah, :ultmegaman:,:ultpacman:,:ultryu:&:ultridley: were all heavily requested characters that all Smash fans can easily recognize. Hell even :ultvillager::ultpalutena::ultdaisy:&:ultmiifighters:, while not as popular were still HIGHLY requested by fans.

What I'm trying to say is that it's go big or go home at E3 and Smash has never been one to disappoint. Whoever the E3 Newcomer is, (if we even get one) It's gonna be huge.
I remember how stunning it was to see Mega Man be revealed alongside Smash 4, especially since it had been practically forever at that point to see classic NES Mega Man in a game after years of disappointment. Sound familiar? It should! Hope E3 this year delivers a Mega Man/PAC-Man/Ryu/Ridley-level bombshell of a character for DLC. Or character(s) as the case may hopefully be.
 
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My two cents on the B-K name origin is that, in fairness, it's not the first time someone in fiction would be called Banjo. Reminds me of Banjo Haran from Daitarn 3, in that sense.

I don't know what decides the reveal order of newcomers, but I'm guessing it has to do with development order. They just show characters that are ready to be shown. People often say that the most requested newcomers should be saved for E3 or the last reveal, but it doesn't work like that. I think it would be best not to look for any logic behind the order and time of reveals.
I thought we learned already that the only pattern that exists is Sakurai doesn't care about patterns and he just does what he wants....and also a Pokemon newcomer is always required in base game.
Both of you are on the money. Figuring out how Sakurai works is like trying to find out which side Revolver Ocelot is actually on.

I wouldn't be too surprised if we get someone like Poochy announced at E3, or something. It would still be a bombshell for a character to be revealed for a series that's not expected to get any more.
 
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TheAnvil

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And making a rule based on one instance always turns out so well for predicting things. Even on what we already know the parallels are off, and will only get more so with additional content revealed.
Not really, based on what we know the parallels are on. The final DLC reveal followed the same formula as Brawl, Wii U and Ultimate. The biggest characters were typically front loaded (although Sonic was an exception, due to the fact he was a late addition).
 

Zipzter

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Not really Smash related, but here's an interesting bit of Banjo-Kazooie trivia that I didn't know:

https://nintendosoup.com/banjo-kazo...-nintendo-president-hiroshi-yamauchis-family/

Apparently, Banjo and Kazooie were named after former Nintendo President Hiroshi Yamauchi's family.
I... I don't think that's true. In the developer "Making of..." videos in Rare Replay, they talked about how the names sort of just happened. And Kazooie used to be Kazoo, but "Kazoo" was trademarked, so they added "ie" and called in good.
Edit: Just saying, either Beanland is lying, the editors of that article are lying, or the devs in the Rare Replay interviews were lying.
Another edit: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...fter_a_nintendo_presidents_grandchild_and_son
Well color me surprised! Apparently Banjo was named that way, but Kazooie is still on the fence. Neat.
 
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So, if Banjo somehow gets revealed, when? And where? Personally, I think he’d only get in if he’s revealed at E3. And I’d say he’d probably be the third or fourth character revealed
I think he will be revealed at E3. But if not, I think he will be the last reveal.
I think he could be fourth. No particular reason.
 
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So, if Banjo somehow gets revealed, when? And where? Personally, I think he’d only get in if he’s revealed at E3. And I’d say he’d probably be the third or fourth character revealed
I honestly think Banjo could be the next character to be revealed. I think we might get a mini Smash Direct in April where they show off Joker, talk about version 3.0, and reveal the next character, being Banjo, and give it a June release. Then at E3 they’ll show off Banjo and reveal the 3rd character and they’ll both be “available now!”
 

N3ON

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Not really, based on what we know the parallels are on. The final DLC reveal followed the same formula as Brawl, Wii U and Ultimate. The biggest characters were typically front loaded (although Sonic was an exception, due to the fact he was a late addition).
Well, first off, Nintendo anticipating Bayo as a ballot favourite, while ultimately a faulty guess, is them actually trying to end on a relatively high note. Although it was a fixed race, they were ending it on the "ballot winner". So, since it's based on intent, that already differs the DLC from base.

And even if you did want to play the pattern game, were Nintendo to end the same way as last time, the fan favourite would probably actually be a fan favourite, considering now they've the ballot results at their disposal.

Second, assuming the four future DLC characters aren't all b/c-tier Nintendo characters (which I think is a pretty safe assumption), Joker will be a poor equivalent to the pedigree of Mewtwo, who was a top three request last time around. Or Ryu, if you insist on ignoring the veterans despite them getting the exact same treatment. Joker's cool, but it's not like he's the most well-known, most iconic, or most requested of characters.

I mean there was more demand behind Bayonetta in the ballot era than there was for Joker a few months back.
 

culumon

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Well, first off, Nintendo anticipating Bayo as a ballot favourite, while ultimately a faulty guess, is them actually trying to end on a relatively high note. Although it was a fixed race, they were ending it on the "ballot winner". So, since it's based on intent, that already differs the DLC from base.
Thank you. People citing Bayo as an example of a Smash reveal cycle ending on an "un-hype" choice always frustrates me because that very clearly wasn't the intent at the time. You don't push your final character reveal as the apparent ballot winner for nothing. She was meant to be the big showstopper, and while that obviously didn't go as planned I think it reflects Sakurai's intentions behind order reveals. I think the reason both Smash 4 and this game's base roster reveals were fairly mundane picks was partially because the dev team knew they could fall back on DLC to end on more of a bang. As for Olimar back in Brawl? The proliferation of the internet and social media between Brawl and Sm4sh and the introduction of reveal trailers meant that the very notion of a "reveal order" probably didn't matter nearly as much then as they do now.

If the last DLC pick for this game is a clear, unambiguous anticlimax then I'll happily eat my words, but Bayo should not be cited if people want to argue in favour of last picks being as such.
 

N3ON

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Thank you. People citing Bayo as an example of a Smash reveal cycle ending on an "un-hype" choice always frustrates me because that very clearly wasn't the intent at the time. You don't push your final character reveal as the apparent ballot winner for nothing. She was meant to be the big showstopper, and while that obviously didn't go as planned I think it reflects Sakurai's intentions behind order reveals. I think the reason both Smash 4 and this game's base roster reveals were fairly mundane picks was partially because the dev team knew they could fall back on DLC to end on more of a bang. As for Olimar back in Brawl? The proliferation of the internet and social media between Brawl and Sm4sh and the introduction of reveal trailers meant that the very notion of a "reveal order" probably didn't matter nearly as much then as they do now.

If the last DLC pick for this game is a clear, unambiguous anticlimax then I'll happily eat my words, but Bayo should not be cited if people want to argue in favour of last picks being as such.
Well the reason base front and mid-loads the reveals are because the more hype newcomers can then be used longer in promoting the game. It's no coincidence the first characters revealed, the ones used on the cover, and some of the most prolific inclusions (bar third-parties) all experience a lot of overlap.

DLC is a different beast entirely since it's piecemeal content. Though much less crucial, they could've front-loaded the DLC in hopes of netting more Season Pass purchases, but they seem to have opted against that.
 

Anthess

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I'd like to see Banjo join the roster. But there is no Banjo without Kazooie and I'm a huge fan of Kazooie.

I think he really has a chance to come as a DLC because of Donkey Kong Country representation in the game. In the previous games, there was a kind of "Rare denial" by Nintendo, but this time, their collaboration is fully assumed as a part of their history.

However, I'm scared. Because the producers seem to be reluctant to the idea of making a new Banjo-Kazooie game. And I don't know why but I think the DLC characters will be here to seal partnerships of Nintendo. In my opinion, if Microsoft had to choose one character to be represented in Smash bros, it wouldn't choose an old character of an old school game, but a new license that actually lives, like Minecraft for example. Make Banjo real would be cool for the fans but there is no profit for Microsoft if it's him, and that's the point that scares me. A partnership has to satisfy each partner.
 

TheAnvil

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Well, first off, Nintendo anticipating Bayo as a ballot favourite, while ultimately a faulty guess, is them actually trying to end on a relatively high note. Although it was a fixed race, they were ending it on the "ballot winner". So, since it's based on intent, that already differs the DLC from base.

And even if you did want to play the pattern game, were Nintendo to end the same way as last time, the fan favourite would probably actually be a fan favourite, considering now they've the ballot results at their disposal.

Second, assuming the four future DLC characters aren't all b/c-tier Nintendo characters (which I think is a pretty safe assumption), Joker will be a poor equivalent to the pedigree of Mewtwo, who was a top three request last time around. Or Ryu, if you insist on ignoring the veterans despite them getting the exact same treatment. Joker's cool, but it's not like he's the most well-known, most iconic, or most requested of characters.

I mean there was more demand behind Bayonetta in the ballot era than there was for Joker a few months back.
They ended it on a fixed ballot 'winner' based on a game that majorly flopped on their system... It's far less likely they anticipated her as a LEGITIMATE contender to win, and far more likely that they positioned her as such to recoup loses from Bayo 2 performing so poorly. Or at the very least to bolster her renown (essentially what they did with Fire Emblem). Either way it doesn't matter how you slice it, it ended on a horrific low.

Mewtwo if anything was more compareable to Piranha Plant. Both offered as free pre-order incentives and were unfinished/low priority from the base game. Joker is essentially our Ryu.
 

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I think that part of the reason is that most of the votes would have came from the start of the Smash Ballot, when Bayonetta 2 was fairly recent (people thought that a Bayonetta 2 Direct was going to end with a trailer for her in Smash Bros., so there was support there). I can't imagine that there'd be a consistent stream of votes from unique users up until the ballot closed; most people would have voted ASAP.

Once you rule out characters who already have roles in the game (Waluigi, Ridley), characters who couldn't work on the 3DS (Ice Climbers, Pokemon Trainer), characters whose companies wouldn't cooperate (Snake, a Castlevania character), and non-video game characters (Goku, among countless other examples), Bayonetta would be pretty high up there. Adding on to that, Bayonetta's moves would be easy to translate from her own games to Smash Bros. (a lot of them are practically 1:1 recreations), unlike someone like K. Rool, where his specials are easy to take from the DKC games, but the other 80% of his moveset or so would need to be completely made up.

It seems more likely that it's a mix of good timing and practicality (given how long it takes to develop a unique character, they'd likely have to get started pretty quickly), as opposed to an elaborate conspiracy to rig the ballot in favour of a relatively obscure character from a two game series that Nintendo doesn't even own.
 

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Again, that might be incorrect. The reveal and development of characters are not inherently the same. They are the last reveal, just not the last reveal before the launch. Reality is, people were anti-hyped from the final reveals before launch because that's the note they left on, with R.O.B. and Shulk, no different from Ken and Incineroar. This is what people saw first. Regardless of how you view the reveal order, you're making an assumption about the development order. We have little information on who was developed first and last. At best, we have a datamined character order(which I'm still looking for, but I don't remember Wolf being last, but Jigglypuff being last, implying she was developed last in comparison).
I remember reading somewhere that Bowser Jr. was the last SSB4 newcomer completed. I think if they didn't finish Bowser Jr. for the SSB4 base game, he probably would have gotten in Ultimate as a newcomer if not SSB4 DLC.
 

Chinderblock

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I remember reading somewhere that Bowser Jr. was the last SSB4 newcomer completed. I think if they didn't finish Bowser Jr. for the SSB4 base game, he probably would have gotten in Ultimate as a newcomer if not SSB4 DLC.
I do remember him barely making it in. Maybe Source Gaming has it? But yeah, the whole idea that "final reveal equals final character added" is unfounded. It's an okay theory, but doesn't have any evidence backing it up. At best, maybe you could look at the first Smash game for an example, maybe even Melee. But Brawl and 4? Nope. Ultimate we don't know the development schedule of in particular at this time.
 

SneakyLink

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I do remember him barely making it in. Maybe Source Gaming has it? But yeah, the whole idea that "final reveal equals final character added" is unfounded. It's an okay theory, but doesn't have any evidence backing it up. At best, maybe you could look at the first Smash game for an example, maybe even Melee. But Brawl and 4? Nope. Ultimate we don't know the development schedule of in particular at this time.
I think for Brawl, although not necessarily stating the last developed characters, there was an interview where Sak states :toonlink:, :wolf:, and :jigglypuff: had lesser Subspace roles due to being on the verge of being cut.
 
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I think for Brawl, although not necessarily stating the last developed characters, there was an interview where Sak states :toonlink:, :wolf:, and :jigglypuff: had lesser Subspace roles due to being on the verge of being cut.
I think "lesser" is over exaggerating it. All they got was like a 3 second cutscene that you had to manually go look for. :4pacman:
 
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