BandDGames: 20 MORE Things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Melee

There are a lot of interesting secrets held within the disk of Super Smash Bros. Melee. From strange glitches to unusual tech there is a lot to be explored within the game. Youtube channel BandDGames recently posted a video titled "20 Things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Melee" that we covered here on Smashboards. Now they are back with 20 MORE things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Melee. Check out the video and drop us a comment about these lesser known facts!

 

I knew most of these but like, two. Boy oh boy am I proud of myself

 

oh cool i miss simple vids like this seems like they are dying off

 

Interesting video, but some of it's content is off. For example, IC's Freeze Glitch won't deactivate from any Grab/Throws, but only from a pummels.
It is also worth mentioning that SDI-ing moves is the only form of movement for the frozen character during a Freeze Glitch.

 

Inb4 sakurai's comment

 

Now I see how wavedashing ended up in the final product. This game is full of strange physics manipulations that probably would have been removed if the game had a longer development period.

 

Now I see how wavedashing ended up in the final product. This game is full of strange physics manipulations that probably would have been removed if the game had a longer development period.

http://smashboards.com/threads/disp...-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/

 

Now I see how wavedashing ended up in the final product. This game is full of strange physics manipulations that probably would have been removed if the game had a longer development period.

Every game has glitches and so on. Its a very hard thing for developers to get rid of. Its also what makes melee beautiful.

 

http://smashboards.com/threads/disp...-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/

Says they were aware, not that it was intentional. I'm sure the makers of Sonic 06 were aware of all the bugs in that game. Doesn't mean that was what they wanted.
Considering Melee had a relatively short development cycle (13 months), I think there wasn't anything they could do about it. To get rid of wavedashing would be to rework the physics engine.

I'm not saying it was a glitch. I just don't believe it was intentional simply because they were aware of it. I'm sure they were also aware of the Luigi invisible roof glitch. Doesn't mean they wanted it.

 

Now I see how wavedashing ended up in the final product. This game is full of strange physics manipulations that probably would have been removed if the game had a longer development period.

I'm so sick of this ****ing website.

 

Every game has glitches and so on. Its a very hard thing for developers to get rid of. Its also what makes melee beautiful.

I know, but I wouldn't call wavedashing a glitch, but more of an exploit of the physics engine.
And I also understand they're hard to get rid of. Considering Melee was made in only 13 months, I'm sure they preferred to release the game as is rather than rework another physics engine.
Something tells me Nintendo rushed the game for the Gamecube which resulted in what I've heard Melee fans call "a wonderful accident"

I don't know why some other people are thinking my first comment was intended as hostile towards Melee. It wasn't.

 

STILL NO ALL-SEEING EYE ON DREAMLAND 64

STILL NO THIRD EYE REFERENCE IN DAISY'S TROPHY

 

Says they were aware, not that it was intentional. I'm sure the makers of Sonic 06 were aware of all the bugs in that game. Doesn't mean that was what they wanted.
Considering Melee had a relatively short development cycle (13 months), I think there wasn't anything they could do about it. To get rid of wavedashing would be to rework the physics engine.

I'm not saying it was a glitch. I just don't believe it was intentional simply because they were aware of it. I'm sure they were also aware of the Luigi invisible roof glitch. Doesn't mean they wanted it.

I always tell people this, I absolutely adore melee but people thinking they left things there for us to discover is just not the case! they left that there because they simply didn't think much about it or that people would go crazy with it like it ended up happening.

So yeah, was it left there? yep. Was it left there because nintendo/sakurai/Hal secretly knew it would be used as an advanced technique to further the depth of their game? I HIGHLY doubt it and I don't think that leaves them much credit aside from "Thank God they left it there" lol

 

Says they were aware, not that it was intentional. I'm sure the makers of Sonic 06 were aware of all the bugs in that game. Doesn't mean that was what they wanted.
Considering Melee had a relatively short development cycle (13 months), I think there wasn't anything they could do about it. To get rid of wavedashing would be to rework the physics engine.

I'm not saying it was a glitch. I just don't believe it was intentional simply because they were aware of it. I'm sure they were also aware of the Luigi invisible roof glitch. Doesn't mean they wanted it.

In the code of the game, there is a character state called LandFallingSpecial that is assignedto a character when they hit the ground from a helpless state. If they wanted to, they could have had a counter to check how recently someone air dodged and made a conditional statement to cancel horizontal momentum if that number is lower than the amount of time someone is stuck in air dodge. That would take about 5-15 minutes for someone who is somewhat knowledgeable in coding. They could have removed it easily, but they didn't.

 

In the code of the game, there is a character state called LandFallingSpecial that is assignedto a character when they hit the ground from a helpless state. If they wanted to, they could have had a counter to check how recently someone air dodged and made a conditional statement to cancel horizontal momentum if that number is lower than the amount of time someone is stuck in air dodge. That would take about 5-15 minutes for someone who is somewhat knowledgeable in coding. They could have removed it easily, but they didn't.

I would believe wavedashing was intentional if it at least looked natural.
The sliding animation is literally just the standing animation, but sliding across the floor, with Luigi's being the most obvious. It looks like an exploit rather than an intended move.

Had Sakurai said it could have easily been removed, I'd believe it, but someone from the dev team would have to be the one to say it. Considering that all that was said was "yes, we were aware" doesn't convince me otherwise. I don't know who you are or what your expertise in working with code it.
You say it could be easily removed in 5 to 15 minutes, yet they didn't even bother making it look like it was intended to be part of the game. Seeing Marth WD and slide as he's charging a Smash looks way too out of place. Like, you see his feet aren't moving and yet he's still moving forward in a pose that show his feet are firmly planted on the floor to charge up his sword swing.

Considering it looks to be linked to the games air dodging, landing, and jumping physics, I don't think it could easily be removed but rather that the whole air dodging, jumping, and landing physics would have to be reworked.

I always tell people this, I absolutely adore melee but people thinking they left things there for us to discover is just not the case! they left that there because they simply didn't think much about it or that people would go crazy with it like it ended up happening.

So yeah, was it left there? yep. Was it left there because nintendo/sakurai/Hal secretly knew it would be used as an advanced technique to further the depth of their game? I HIGHLY doubt it and I don't think that leaves them much credit aside from "Thank God they left it there" lol

I agree.
It just looks too out of place.
Seeing the character glide around isn't as unconvincing as seeing the characters do a second jump. Sure, both are unnatural actions, but at least with the second jump, it was outlined in the manual and has an animation assigned to it.

With WD, it looks like something from the Matrix that Neo would do.
Like, he's so aware of the world's physics that he can slide across the floor at will, punching while gliding.
Like I mentioned previously, seeing a character like Luigi, sliding and in a frozen pose while charging his up smash, feet planeted on the ground, I can't help but feel that it's just physics manipulation and not an intentional tech.
At least give them a sliding pose if it was intentional to not make it look so much like an exploit. It doesn't have to change the way it functions.

 

"It was a difficult fight"

You said it Roy

 

I would believe wavedashing was intentional if it at least looked natural.
The sliding animation is literally just the standing animation, but sliding across the floor, with Luigi's being the most obvious. It looks like an exploit rather than an intended move.

Had Sakurai said it could have easily been removed, I'd believe it, but someone from the dev team would have to be the one to say it. Considering that all that was said was "yes, we were aware" doesn't convince me otherwise. I don't know who you are or what your expertise in working with code it.
You say it could be easily removed in 5 to 15 minutes, yet they didn't even bother making it look like it was intended to be part of the game. Seeing Marth WD and slide as he's charging a Smash looks way too out of place. Like, you see his feet aren't moving and yet he's still moving forward in a pose that show his feet are firmly planted on the floor to charge up his sword swing.

Considering it looks to be linked to the games air dodging, landing, and jumping physics, I don't think it could easily be removed but rather that the whole air dodging, jumping, and landing physics would have to be reworked.


I agree.
It just looks too out of place.
Seeing the character glide around isn't as unconvincing as seeing the characters do a second jump. Sure, both are unnatural actions, but at least with the second jump, it was outlined in the manual and has an animation assigned to it.

With WD, it looks like something from the Matrix that Neo would do.
Like, he's so aware of the world's physics that he can slide across the floor at will, punching while gliding.
Like I mentioned previously, seeing a character like Luigi, sliding and in a frozen pose while charging his up smash, feet planeted on the ground, I can't help but feel that it's just physics manipulation and not an intentional tech.
At least give them a sliding pose if it was intentional to not make it look so much like an exploit. It doesn't have to change the way it functions.

your reading comprehension needs work, kid. Just be silent to prevent making a fool of yourself

 

Interesting video, but some of it's content is off. For example, IC's Freeze Glitch won't deactivate from a Grab/Throw, but only from a pummel from Popo.
It is also worth mentioning that SDI-ing moves is the only form of movement for the frozen character during a Freeze Glitch.

F throw and U throw will release them from the freeze glitch as well as pummel, while B throw and D throw will keep the glitch active. Also Nana can do these as well if she's in a grabby mood.

 

I would believe wavedashing was intentional if it at least looked natural.
The sliding animation is literally just the standing animation, but sliding across the floor, with Luigi's being the most obvious. It looks like an exploit rather than an intended move.

Had Sakurai said it could have easily been removed, I'd believe it, but someone from the dev team would have to be the one to say it. Considering that all that was said was "yes, we were aware" doesn't convince me otherwise. I don't know who you are or what your expertise in working with code it.
You say it could be easily removed in 5 to 15 minutes, yet they didn't even bother making it look like it was intended to be part of the game. Seeing Marth WD and slide as he's charging a Smash looks way too out of place. Like, you see his feet aren't moving and yet he's still moving forward in a pose that show his feet are firmly planted on the floor to charge up his sword swing.

Considering it looks to be linked to the games air dodging, landing, and jumping physics, I don't think it could easily be removed but rather that the whole air dodging, jumping, and landing physics would have to be reworked.

I am currently in AP Computer Science at my high school, but in Programming II (C# w/ XNA), we programmed games all the time; it was what the curriculum was based on. I wrote about 2,500 lines of code for my game (a turn-based RPG). To give you a picture of how much code that is, it's ~68 pages of code if I were to use a 12-point font. If you need proof, I can PM you the source code if SB doesn't have a character limit in PMs. I'm applying to numerous colleges for Computer Science, want to become a video game programmer when I graduate college, and am proficient in 4 languages thus far.

Removing it in 5-15 minutes would be a reasonable estimate, but creating Wavedash animations, sound effects, and the like would take MUCH more time than that. I never said they embellished WD, I'm saying that they intentionally kept it in. Changing the momentum to 0 when someone hits the ground out of an air dodge is as easy as checking the character state, using a conditional to check how recently they had air dodged, and moving on with their life. It might take a bit longer if they wanted to properly encapsulate their data, maybe 30 minutes, but all they really need to do is make a counter that is incremented every frame, pass the counter as an explicit parameter to whatever method is being used, add the conditional statement, set the horizontal momentum to 0 (or significantly decrease it so that the game doesn't lose all fluidity, just most of it) if the statement is true, and change the character state back to idle.

 

I am currently in AP Computer Science at my high school, but in Programming II (C# w/ XNA), we programmed games all the time; it was what the curriculum was based on. I wrote about 2,500 lines of code for my game (a turn-based RPG). To give you a picture of how much code that is, it's ~68 pages of code if I were to use a 12-point font. If you need proof, I can PM you the source code if SB doesn't have a character limit in PMs. I'm applying to numerous colleges for Computer Science, want to become a video game programmer when I graduate college, and am proficient in 4 languages thus far.

Removing it in 5-15 minutes would be a reasonable estimate, but creating Wavedash animations, sound effects, and the like would take MUCH more time than that. I never said they embellished WD, I'm saying that they intentionally kept it in. Changing the momentum to 0 when someone hits the ground out of an air dodge is as easy as checking the character state, using a conditional to check how recently they had air dodged, and moving on with their life. It might take a bit longer if they wanted to properly encapsulate their data, maybe 30 minutes, but all they really need to do is make a counter that is incremented every frame, pass the counter as an explicit parameter to whatever method is being used, add the conditional statement, set the horizontal momentum to 0 (or significantly decrease it so that the game doesn't lose all fluidity, just most of it) if the statement is true, and change the character state back to idle.

I believe you about the code, but I'm still skeptical that was a planned technique for the game rather than an exploit of the game's physics.

 

I believe you about the code, but I'm still skeptical that was a planned technique for the game rather than an exploit of the game's physics.

I'm not doubting it wasn't initially planned, I just think Sakurai and the team were like "Hey, this is pretty neat. Let's keep it in the game."

 

I'm not doubting it wasn't initially planned, I just think Sakurai and the team were like "Hey, this is pretty neat. Let's keep it in the game."

Maybe, but I would still consider it an exploit of the game's physics. Kinda like the combo system in the first Street Fighter 2 where moves could be canceled out by inputting another move.
It wasn't intentional, but it made the game fast and fun, so the developers left it in.

Only difference from Melee is, whereas Street Fighter continued to refine and improve the Street Fighter 2 combo system with its subsequent sequels, Sakurai pulled the plug on WD and it leaves me wondering, what could they have done with it for Brawl and Smash 4?

Maybe they would have given each character unique sliding animations. Tutorials in the manual on how to wave dash. Stuff like that.
I dunno...

 

Maybe, but I would still consider it an exploit of the game's physics. Kinda like the combo system in the first Street Fighter 2 where moves could be canceled out by inputting another move.
It wasn't intentional, but it made the game fast and fun, so the developers left it in.

Only difference from Melee is, whereas Street Fighter continued to refine and improve the Street Fighter 2 combo system with its subsequent sequels, Sakurai pulled the plug on WD and it leaves me wondering, what could they have done with it for Brawl and Smash 4?

Maybe they would have given each character unique sliding animations. Tutorials in the manual on how to wave dash. Stuff like that.
I dunno...

That would require more time and resources that the team didn't have. In addition, the team had absolutely no clue that there would be a competitive community for this game (Sakurai would take out WD if he could patch Melee because he hates that Smash Bros has a competitive following), so what would be the use of providing advance tech tutorials found by someone that was doing rigorous bug testing for a party game?

 

That would require more time and resources that the team didn't have. In addition, the team had absolutely no clue that there would be a competitive community for this game (Sakurai would take out WD if he could patch Melee because he hates that Smash Bros has a competitive following), so what would be the use of providing advance tech tutorials found by someone that was doing rigorous bug testing for a party game?

I think hate might be too strong of a word.
He gave Smash 4 some competitive aspects. Nothing Melee-like, but small gestures as if he's trying to strike a balance of competitive and casual.

And I was saying tutorials and such for Brawl. Like if they had carried over WD to the subsequent games. How they could have expanded on the concept. Like after they saw Melee had a competitive following.

 

I think hate might be too strong of a word.
He gave Smash 4 some competitive aspects. Nothing Melee-like, but small gestures as if he's trying to strike a balance of competitive and casual.

And I was saying tutorials and such for Brawl. Like if they had carried over WD to the subsequent games. How they could have expanded on the concept. Like after they saw Melee had a competitive following.

"Mmm. Personally, I feel that if you want to play a fighting game seriously, there are other competitive fighting games that are more suited to that, and people like that could have fun playing those. If you play Smash Brothers seriously as a competitive game, the game itself has no future." (http://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakura...to-be-a-competitive-game#sthash.OdCr706o.dpuf)

He took out a lot of competitive aspects of Sm4sh, like DACUS and Vectoring. He thinks that Smash has no future as a competitive game, and has proven those thoughts through the actions of making Sm4sh and Brawl sluggish, gimmicky and a LOT less fluid.

 

"The game itself has no future"... lol

Melee WOULD'VE died when Brawl came out if it hadn't been appealing competitively otherwise, yet look at it now. No one plays it but the ones who know about the competitive scene's existence, and just look at its popularity! Smash 64 is the same thing, but to a lesser degree.

 

This is why smash 4 is superior. Melee is just a glitchfest. Also 18 is the reason why ice climbers got cut. Always some broken **** with them.

 

This is why smash 4 is superior. Melee is just a glitchfest. Also 18 is the reason why ice climbers got cut. Always some broken **** with them.

Technically superior, yes.

But it's undeniabe that Melee is fun to play. The following it gained is a testement to that.
Smash 4 could be a perfect game with zero glitches and I'd see it as inferior to Melee if it doesn't reach a following of the same magnitude as Melee.

Just goes to show the power of Melee. That despite being riddled with oddities and glitches, it's still an extremely popular fighting game.

While I like Smash 4 a lot, I'm going to hold out on calling it superior until years later because if a glitchfest game can generate a bigger following, what good is it having less glitches if less people are around to play it?
I want to see how big Smash 4 becomes. Will it become as big as Melee? Who knows.

That, to me, will decide which game is superior. Because even a glitchfest can be a wonderful accident and be fun to play and a glitchess game can fade away.

 

This is why smash 4 is superior. Melee is just a glitchfest. Also 18 is the reason why ice climbers got cut. Always some broken **** with them.

I dont have as much fun when I play Smash 4 as when I play Melee. Therefore, Melee is superior.