Balloon Blast Matchup Thread #14 (Rediscussion) - Olimar

Zinoto

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Now that the BBR has released the next tier list it's time to re-evaluate some of our completed matchups and who better to start with than the one who moved up 6 spots :troll:. :olimar: has always been a tough MU for :diddy:, so without further ado let the discussion begin.


It is important that you read this! Every first post by a user in a Matchup Thread is encouraged to have at least a couple of sentences of information, alongside a ratio. Posts may not be considered for ratio and summary solidifying without these from the poster at some point in the thread, and keeping them towards the beginning helps keep discussion tidy. You have two weeks to share information that you feel is helpful in the Matchup, as well as debate with others. Compelling arguments are a must people, I expect any joking and trolls to be at a minimum.


Ideas for discussion...

-Both Characters Ground/Air Game Against Each Other-
-Moves To Avoid And How To Avoid Them-
-Diddy's Moves To Utilize In The Matchup-
-Personal Strategies To Help With The Matchup-
-Stage Discussion For Starters, Counterpicks, And Bans-

BBR Ratio: 0
Our Ratio: 0

This thread will be posted in the :olimar: boards as well.
 

GOofyGV

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I feel like this mu is kinda even
Diddy can gimp olimar pretty well.
and if diddy has a banana in front of him Olimar can't grab him.
Diddy does combo better.
Olimar still is dangerous because Olimar has a great camp game so we do have to uproach.
but I still think with banana's that we can do this safe.
I don't know Olimar mu that well sorry guys :(

EDIT: the diddy I play the most actualy did explain me why he finds this mu +1 for us and I can kinda agree.

EDIT: ok I need to update this
Olimar is my my sub so and I was kinda lazy.

Olimar and diddy both have great stage control and both like to get this in order to get a good lead.
If the Olimar is campy this mu gets boring he is going to canp you and withut banana's uproaching isn't safe because he can easely grab you when you do. Oce we have banana's we can do a few things.

-we can bait a grab punish that with a glide toss and throw him off-stage.
I like this a lot. If you can bait a grab frm olimar it's a free banana hit to grab combo.
Once we throw him(mostly he is off-stage after this) We cen try to gimp him or get the stage control.
I would recomand to go for stage control if the damage from olimars isn't to high.
Because getting that gimp isn't likely. If we get the stage control we can punish him for getting n stage which we can follow up with more combo's.

-We can just uproach
Ok this is nice to mix up but uproaching with your banana and get predictable with it can get really unsafe which is bad.
I personaly like to bait those grabs.


A fun thing to know is that olimar can't grab us if there is a banana in front of us.


Olimars smashes are great but banana's can punish them.
We can punish Olimar's smashes easely.Just don't get in the range of the moves to often and punish them with banana's if you see them.

I think that baiting smashes and grabs is really helpfull.
Once this does happen you want to get Olimar off-stage.
If he doesn't die He still is in a really bad position.

Diddy's mobility is really helpfull to uproach Olimar and we are small so camping is even more difficult.

Playing that run in bait game is probably the most helpfull in this mu Imo.
Once you get that bait and can get him off-stage you can bring in some serious damage.

so yeah this mu is 0 or +1 for us. Not sure about this.
I like the mu more from diddy's side then from Olimars side.
 

Deez.

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I know my share with the Olimar mu. I play logic from time to time..Things you must learn use for this match up.

1.JAB GRAB!!!!! IS BROKEN AS SHIDD.
2.rolling behind olimar is pretty safe with nana in hand. I mean rolling like right behind him to. Im pretty sure your to close for him to grab and its a really good mix up on him. for the fact you can roll under olimar then glide toss right under him back to the other side. really good mix up game.
3. Peanuts help obviously.. try to time the time he throws his pikmin at you.. to cancel it out. If not you can usually just crouch the pikmin if the olimar misses. or even just SH above them.
4.side b works well in this mu for the fact Olimar will get used to you shielding your nana n shield approach. good mix up as well.
5. Dtilt rapes olimar off stage... possible set ups you could do are..
1-dtilt dtilt fair
2-dtilt bair into stage
3-dtilt jab down smash

That's a lot of what I use in the mu... It's a pretty fair mu imo.. but these tips should give you the edge your looking for... I do wanna repeat that JAB GRAB OFF STAGE IS BROKEN! PLEASE USE EXCESSIVELY!!!
 

Player-1

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I agree with pretty much what deez said except idk about jab grab being super broken against olimar.... I mean I use it a lot in all MUs and I never really noticed olimar being especially wrecked by it

:phone:
 

Zwarm

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I think there's more of a time window to grab Olimar after a jab due to his height. Sorta like how Luigi gets a guaranteed shoryuken off of jab on him.
 

Deez.

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Yeah exactly what Zwarm said.. that's why It works so well.. its basically guaranteed when you hit the jab on Olimar.. So I abuse it knowing hes always going to be in a bad position when being thrown.

I also use it in a lot of my match ups as well.. just a good combo by itself. #Shrugg

But yea I"m really comfortable n the Olimar MU.
 

Player-1

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even so I still don't see it being THAT broken in the MU. I mean, jab>grab is great in like every MU, I just don't see it as being so much more effective for Olimar than other characters just because of a couple more frames to do it.
 

Deez.

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Exactly.. trust me it makes the MU a lot easier. esp if you know the Olimar's options.. when off stage. hes either gonna Good olimars anyways...

A} Jump n whistle
B} up b right away..
C} fair using jump.

It becomes a rps then but it's also good if you catch olimar out of his jump while trying to jump out the jab and thus losing jump already.
 

Zinoto

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Ok since not a lot has been said for this MU discussion so I thought I'd throw my share in.

This is a match up that auto pilot :diddy: gets extremely wrecked. For the majority of the match up you want to play it safe. Poke and stay right outside his fsmash range when hes low on pikmin, so that you can punish all of his counters and get the trip. Once you're in kill percent (like 95%) stay away and let :olimar: approach. You can keep pikmin off with short hop ---> z-drop ---> nair and retain a banana to punish him for trying to hit you out of it. Once you get a trip, go balls in. Keep him in the air/offstage and read his landings to rack up a good amount of damage. Save dsmash for when he gets to around 120% for the kill. Olimar's trip animation is also booty so we have some really stupid banana set ups if we get the trip. He'll be flinging pikmin, smash attacking, or pivot grabbing so short hop throws work well to get over them. Side b is really good in this match up (the kick more specifically), as it can go through his smashes and over his grabs.

In short, you should be either all over Olimar or nowhere near him not in between. I usually ban :halberd: against olimar and cp :battlefieldb:, :frigate:, or :castlesiege: To see the match up played, I would look at how Gnes gets his trips and set ups, but how ADHD applies pressure. Gnes keeps pikmin damage to like almost nothing and has good reads in getting trips. ADHD pressures well and once he gets in, he goes crazy with reads.

I think the match up is even. +0
 

Player-1

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Olimar's trip animation isn't booty, it's his get options that are. Also, I usually ban halberd as well, but I definitely wouldn't CP Castle Siege, I know Olimars like that CP. Dabuz likes Siege in this MU as well. I wouldn't CP Frigate either. Olimar is really good on the 2nd transformation, the ceilings are lower so he gets earlier usmash kills and I believe he pulls more purples here as well, but I could be wrong at that last part. Battlefield isn't a bad CP, but I'd much prefer to go to SV, FD, or RC. Olimar typically does better on smaller stages since he can cover so much area with his grab (pivot grab holy ****) and other smashes.
 

Vega4

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Olimar's trip animation isn't booty, it's his get options that are. Also, I usually ban halberd as well, but I definitely wouldn't CP Castle Siege, I know Olimars like that CP. Dabuz likes Siege in this MU as well. I wouldn't CP Frigate either. Olimar is really good on the 2nd transformation, the ceilings are lower so he gets earlier usmash kills and I believe he pulls more purples here as well, but I could be wrong at that last part. Battlefield isn't a bad CP, but I'd much prefer to go to SV, FD, or RC. Olimar typically does better on smaller stages since he can cover so much area with his grab (pivot grab holy ****) and other smashes.
I agree with this. Olimar feels just too hard in Battlefield, he can preassure pretty well, and with all those platforms if he shield naners then they are out of the ground (in a plattform) and he can get some momentum (and we know that momentum in this match means DAMAGE, for both sides). I remenber a stream in which Wyatt got 3 stocked by Dabuz here, and all other games was somehow even...


Castle siege if definitively a bad idea in this match. You can't gimp or juggle him in the second transformation (and Pikmins can go through statues, naners can't...) , first transformation if also ridiculouz if Olimar gets the right side under the plattform because is hard to approach to him (left side don't change it that much...), and the last transformation also mess a little our naner game with all that tilting...

Frigate doesn't like me neither vs Olimar. The ceiling in low, and like is already said, the second transformation is too good for Olimar. Also, the first transformation is not that good for us, right side is pretty bad for Olimar, but for us is bad too.

For Olimar I would choose as starter YI (I know people say is a good stage for Olimar, but I preffer this instead of BF) asuming that they ban FD and SV (otherwise I'd choose one of these).
As counterpick I'd choose SV or FD.
And I would Ban Delfino (half of the time you can't gimp him, so half of the time he's better than MK...).
 

Dabuz

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Considering a 5 stage striking with PS1 as the fifth neutral, I like to strike FD and then PS1. PS1 is a pretty risky stage to fight diddy on from an Olimar POV.
 

DEHF

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Considering a 5 stage striking with PS1 as the fifth neutral, I like to strike FD and then PS1. PS1 is a pretty risky stage to fight diddy on from an Olimar POV.
Why do you change the color of your text so much?
 

Dabuz

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The transformations.

Rock has walls and give diddy the ability to get an infinite, and even on the right side where diddy can't get an infinite, Olimar has few options, which Diddy can cover really well. The left side is Oli's safe spot, but when the stage transforms again, diddy has all the stage control. The plus side is Olimar can farm pikmin while on the left.

Fire for pretty much the same reasons as the rock, but Olimar in general won't be AS limited.

Windmill is dumb vs. Diddy. I feel like the windmill is just AMAZING for diddy, if he camps under it with smart use of bananas, Olimar can't hit him, which is neutral. If Olimar camps under it, Diddy CAN hit Olimar with smart use of bananas and a good read. The plus for this is Olimar gets more blues in the water.

I do like the forest transformation however, the platform layout is good for oli.

I'm not saying Diddy players should CP PS1 over FD, it's just not a stage an Olimar wants to go to in this MU. And considering most of the stagelist compliments Olimar in this MU, that's very important to note.
 

Player-1

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the rock transformation is probably better for diddy, we have the ability to get a wall infinite in like one spot (well not really, but it's the only practical place to get it) which is in the center and that's only when olimar is to the left and we're to the right or the platform will get it, and olimar has a stupid usmash to cover that spot well anyway. Olimar on the left side isn't too bad, Diddy gets to control what Olimar does on the left side since we just throw bananas down on him and force him on the ledge and Diddy's up-b is pretty dumb here too since there's a wall the barrels usually just blow up and give more damage to the opponent rather than what diddy takes. The right side is that part that's dumb for us since Olimar's range on his smashes and grabs are so great we have a stupidely hard time landing in such a small place. The same could apply to Olimar since we can scatter the field with bananas, but Diddy has a harder time since Olimar has better aerial mobility, whistle armor, a b reverse with whistle armor, and the fact that if he has good item control he can catch the bananas with an air dodge or something. I might be a bit biased for the rock transformation because I am really bad on this transformation.

Everything else though is about right though
 
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